Proposed trade with Houston:

Entity said:
Who is your SF? And secondary ball handler?
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Who cares? We get a legit defensive center and trim dead weight.

My bigger concern is if Cousins/Asik works that much better than Howard/Asik? Not that I think this is a legitimate possibility.
 
sdballer said:
Who cares? We get a legit defensive center and trim dead weight.

My bigger concern is if Cousins/Asik works that much better than Howard/Asik? Not that I think this is a legitimate possibility.
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Yes not only can cousins shoot but he can pass which is more important. Also it could be a blessing vs really big guys like bogut which would force cousins to attack bigger guys from the ft line using his quickness
 
sdballer said:
My bigger concern is if Cousins/Asik works that much better than Howard/Asik? Not that I think this is a legitimate possibility.
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Cousins has made a bit of noise in the past about being more comfortable at the PF, if I recall correctly.

I do that trade. And I'm not convinced Houston doesn't. Moneywise, it's very nearly a wash with Salmons getting bought out. And with Asik now pushed completely out of the lineup, they're backing up Dwight with...Terrence Jones? Hayes would be a very good piece off the bench for them. And Salmons can give them some D as well. I can see them trying to swing a *better* deal with someone else but I'm not sure I can see them turning this one down if another doesn't materialize unless somehow they patch things up with Asik.

For us, we'd move Cuz down to the PF on the starting lineup, and we could basically play any two bigs together as we sub throughout the game and never risk going "small ball". Maybe a few minutes here and there with two bigs and Patterson on the wing - we could test it out and see if it's a disaster. But the SF would be the problem slot. We'd play lots of Outlaw and BenMac would have to swing down there a bit unless Mbah a Moute suddenly gets healthy to play real minutes. Especially coupled with a deal for a SF (send off that rejuvenated MT23?), this could be a nice deal. It would give us another $1.3M in cap hit next year (from ~$54M to ~$55M and change - not sure of the distribution on Cuz's extension) but we're not really in cap position to be big players on the FA market anyway. Our free-agent splash year is the summer of 2015.

Do it, I say! Even if it seems we only do ever trade with Houston.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Cousins has made a bit of noise in the past about being more comfortable at the PF, if I recall correctly.

I do that trade. And I'm not convinced Houston doesn't. Moneywise, it's very nearly a wash with Salmons getting bought out. And with Asik now pushed completely out of the lineup, they're backing up Dwight with...Terrence Jones? Hayes would be a very good piece off the bench for them. And Salmons can give them some D as well. I can see them trying to swing a *better* deal with someone else but I'm not sure I can see them turning this one down if another doesn't materialize unless somehow they patch things up with Asik.

For us, we'd move Cuz down to the PF on the starting lineup, and we could basically play any two bigs together as we sub throughout the game and never risk going "small ball". Maybe a few minutes here and there with two bigs and Patterson on the wing - we could test it out and see if it's a disaster. But the SF would be the problem slot. We'd play lots of Outlaw and BenMac would have to swing down there a bit unless Mbah a Moute suddenly gets healthy to play real minutes. Especially coupled with a deal for a SF (send off that rejuvenated MT23?), this could be a nice deal. It would give us another $1.3M in cap hit next year (from ~$54M to ~$55M and change - not sure of the distribution on Cuz's extension) but we're not really in cap position to be big players on the FA market anyway. Our free-agent splash year is the summer of 2015.

Do it, I say! Even if it seems we only do ever trade with Houston.
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Why settle for a deal for an SF when we could just draft Parker or Wiggins?

Or we could trade MT for Lebron. Either one's fine with me.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Cousins has made a bit of noise in the past about being more comfortable at the PF, if I recall correctly.

I do that trade. And I'm not convinced Houston doesn't. Moneywise, it's very nearly a wash with Salmons getting bought out. And with Asik now pushed completely out of the lineup, they're backing up Dwight with...Terrence Jones? Hayes would be a very good piece off the bench for them. And Salmons can give them some D as well. I can see them trying to swing a *better* deal with someone else but I'm not sure I can see them turning this one down if another doesn't materialize unless somehow they patch things up with Asik.

For us, we'd move Cuz down to the PF on the starting lineup, and we could basically play any two bigs together as we sub throughout the game and never risk going "small ball". Maybe a few minutes here and there with two bigs and Patterson on the wing - we could test it out and see if it's a disaster. But the SF would be the problem slot. We'd play lots of Outlaw and BenMac would have to swing down there a bit unless Mbah a Moute suddenly gets healthy to play real minutes. Especially coupled with a deal for a SF (send off that rejuvenated MT23?), this could be a nice deal. It would give us another $1.3M in cap hit next year (from ~$54M to ~$55M and change - not sure of the distribution on Cuz's extension) but we're not really in cap position to be big players on the FA market anyway. Our free-agent splash year is the summer of 2015.

Do it, I say! Even if it seems we only do ever trade with Houston.
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Uh oh.

That's two people who have taken that seriously. I should have used some :ps.

Before the season there was talk of Ryan Anderson. A rumor floated earlier this week was of Rajon Rondo. I "suggested" John Salmons and Chuck Hayes. :D
 
I've seen Thad Young being floated in these kinds of rumours a lot, which might be the best fit for Houston. it's just a question of whether they can scrape together a package that might appeal to the Sixers or if they can find another team to involve in it. a three-way deal with the Mavs, where Young goes to Houston, Asik to Dallas and Marion's expiring contract plus whatever picks HOU and DAL have go to Philly might be possible, for instance.
 
Asik could work next to Cousins, but it does take Cousins away from the rim more than I like. That lineup would give you two bruisers in the starting five and if you somehow manage to hold on to JT, a legitimate 3 big rotation. Defensively and on the glass that is a pretty substantial upgrade. Landry complicates things a little bit, because you have to assume that he's going to be getting 20 minutes at PF at some point.

I do have to think that Asik can get something better for Houston. The Atlanta trade for Milsap after December 15 makes a lot of sense for both teams. It lets Horford move down to the 4 and puts a truly complementary 4 next to Howard.
 
Asik was a DNP-CD last night. Trade incoming?

I'd give up quite a bit for him and figure the rest out later. But like others have said, the perfect deal may be difficult.

I'd trade Thomas or Vasquez in a deal for Asik. They are both valuable assets, but not ones Houston necessarily needs. They have Beverly who they love, and Lin who is fine. They don't need IT or GV.

Patterson is the obvious guy, but he's not THAT valuable. He'd be a piece in any deal I'd think, though. Thompson is another piece. And even Landry would help that team, but he can't be dealt until Dec. 15th, and I don't know if Houston wants to wait that long.

We also have Ray McCallum, who, as a prospect, might have some value to Morey. Hard to say.

If we are trying to help them remain flexible, and not add a lot of long term salary, Would Patterson, Fredette, and McCallum come close? If they don't care about adding salary, then Thompson, Patterson, McCallum, and Fredette for Asik and Smith also works.

This starts to make a whole lot more sense if we start to explore 3 way deals, because then we could send someone else Isaiah Thomas for example, and they'd be able to send Houston something more meaningful.
 
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Am I the only one who is not really on the Asik bandwagon? There is no doubt that he is an upgrade over the current bigs we trot out there next to Cousins, and there is no doubt that he is an intimidating defender and great rebounder, but he doesn't have the athleticism we need next to Cousins nor does he have the perimeter jump shot we need to space the floor for Cousins. Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm perfectly fine with not trading for Asik (hence keeping our team worse), getting a high draft pick, and taking our future #2 option in next year's rather than trading for a piece that isn't an "ideal" fit next to Cousins, but that is good enough to knock us out of contending for a high draft pick.
 
LPKingsFan said:
Asik's actually pretty mobile on defense, see sbnation's nice breakdown here: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/15/4830936/omer-asik-defense-video-breakdown-houston-rockets

As for jumpers... if you only want a big next to Cousins who can block shots, play strong man defense, and hit jumpers... that list is pretty small. Add in qualifiers for age and availability and it gets much smaller, if not nonexistent.
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No, I want a big who can block shots, play strong man defense, hit jumpers, rebound, and be athletic enough to guard quick PFs. I know it's a lot to ask out of our PF spot, but I don't think it's impossible to find.

We might have to settle for a guy who lacks one of these attributes, but I don't want to trade for one who doesn't fulfill all of those needs when we don't even have our core in place. I've said it many times before. Teams that get stuck in mediocrity do so because they acquire their role players before their core players. This would be a prime example of that. Asik is not a core player. He is a very good complimentary big man that you put next to a go-to option at PF. If we acquire Asik now, it will make our team better which will result in us getting a worse pick in next year's draft. If we stay put with our team, we have a good shot at a #2 option in next year's draft (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, or Smart could all be that player). Making this trade at this point in time could be crippling to the future of our team even though it helps us improve in the short run.

Hold on Kings fans. We're almost there. Let's wait this year out, develop the talent we currently have, and look to draft our #2 option of the future in the next draft.
 
twslam07 said:
No, I want a big who can block shots, play strong man defense, hit jumpers, rebound, and be athletic enough to guard quick PFs. I know it's a lot to ask out of our PF spot, but I don't think it's impossible to find.
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Ibaka fits this description.
 
TheBadGuy said:
Ibaka fits this description.
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Ibaka is who i've had in my head as a great compliment to Cuz for some time now. But i'm having trouble thinking of similar players since Ibaka is obviously not available. I can't think of any other power forwards that really do what he does...
 
twslam07 said:
No, I want a big who can block shots, play strong man defense, hit jumpers, rebound, and be athletic enough to guard quick PFs. I know it's a lot to ask out of our PF spot, but I don't think it's impossible to find.
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Could you give us a sample list of the players who have all those skills. We know about Ibaka. Who else is there?
 
we have to make this happen. We can sort our SF issues through the draft but this something we must chase.

I would be distraught given our relationship with the rockets if we weren't in talks at all.
 
DesertFox said:
When/if he bulks up, John Henson can fill that role. Guys who can do it all are not readily available.
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Yes to both. There are maybe, maybe, half a dozen good shotblocking defensive big men in the league at any one time. Finding one who is mobile, a solid man defender, a good rebounder, and a decent mid-range shooter means you are looking for Hakeem. That's a generational player. I would settle for a mobile shotblocker who rebounds at this point. I don't particularly care how their offensive game works (or doesn't).
 
Besides Henson, Terrence Jones was another one of my draft crushes. If you start the talks for Asik, you can work your way down to Jones and not pay as high a price.
Houston apparently like Casspi, and still has Montiejounas getting butt splinters.

If they are in a win now mode, Ppat is a little more polished than T Jones, and then they can replace his expiring deal with a developing Montejounas.

Jones is still raw, but he looks like a filed out PF instead of a tweener now, and will give the Kings an athlete at the big spot. Not so great at boxing out, but he can win those up for grabs rebounds/tips that the Kings have been loosing.
 
Houston can get much better talent back for Asik.

About 25 teams in the NBA could use a guy like Asik.

Then you throw in Terrence Jones, who is a big fan favorite in Houston. Houston will hang up the phone.

Terrence Jones is a terrific talent that needs minutes. I would kill to have him on this team, with or without Asik.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Could you give us a sample list of the players who have all those skills. We know about Ibaka. Who else is there?
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Like I mentioned in the rest of my post that you left out of my quote, it's likely we will have to settle for a player who doesn't have all of these qualities, but to go ahead and acquire one that lacks two of those qualities (midrange jumper and athleticism to guard PFs) is not a good idea when our core is not set. There is no need to add a player like Asik at this point. It will only make us worse in the future (make us better this year which will cause us to have a worse chance at snatching a #2 option in next year's draft). However, I understand how rare the player I demand to play next to Cousins is. Hence, I'm much more open to trading for him before our core is set because he is the best compliment we could possibly get next to Cousins.

In my eyes, it is not a necessity to grab our PF of the future at this point in time because that player will be a roleplayer, and I would prefer to add our roleplayers after we have established our core.

I'll go ahead and play along though...

  1. Anthony Davis
  2. Al Horford
  3. Serge Ibaka
  4. Larry Sanders
  5. Joakim Noah
  6. Derrick Favors
  7. Tristan Thompson
  8. Ed Davis
  9. Taj Gibson
  10. Ekpe Udoh (rebounding is pretty weak, but I've always had a soft spot for Ekpe. I've always liked his potential as a rebounder. Would not be insulted if you argued for him to be off the list ;))
  11. Jordan Hill
  12. John Henson
I tried to limit it to players that are at an age that makes sense to acquire them.
 
twslam07 said:
Like I mentioned in the rest of my post that you left out of my quote, it's likely we will have to settle for a player who doesn't have all of these qualities, but to go ahead and acquire one that lacks two of those qualities (midrange jumper and athleticism to guard PFs) is not a good idea when our core is not set. There is no need to add a player like Asik at this point. It will only make us worse in the future (make us better this year which will cause us to have a worse chance at snatching a #2 option in next year's draft). However, I understand how rare the player I demand to play next to Cousins is. Hence, I'm much more open to trading for him before our core is set because he is the best compliment we could possibly get next to Cousins.

In my eyes, it is not a necessity to grab our PF of the future at this point in time because that player will be a roleplayer, and I would prefer to add our roleplayers after we have established our core.

I'll go ahead and play along though...

  1. Anthony Davis
  2. Al Horford
  3. Serge Ibaka
  4. Larry Sanders
  5. Joakim Noah
  6. Derrick Favors
  7. Tristan Thompson
  8. Ed Davis
  9. Taj Gibson
  10. Ekpe Udoh (rebounding is pretty weak, but I've always had a soft spot for Ekpe. I've always liked his potential as a rebounder. Would not be insulted if you argued for him to be off the list ;))
  11. Jordan Hill
  12. John Henson
I tried to limit it to players that are at an age that makes sense to acquire them.
Click to expand...

Good list of the sorts of guys that would work.
 
sdballer said:
Who cares? We get a legit defensive center and trim dead weight.

My bigger concern is if Cousins/Asik works that much better than Howard/Asik? Not that I think this is a legitimate possibility.
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Cousins/Asik together will have their share of problems, but should work better than Howard/Asik. Howard can't play anywhere outside 3 feet, and bitches when he doesn't get touches in the low post. Cousins at times seems he like doesn't even want to play in the post (which he should do exclusively), and he has a lot more perimeter skills than Howard.

Cousins/Asik is fine as long as we have a suitable stretch 4 on the bench to match up with opposing stretch 4s when the situation calls. However, I suspect if we get in the playoffs and face a good defensive 5 who doesn't contribute much on offense, we may see teams look to exploit and force us to sit Asik.
 
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Capt. Factorial said:
He's currently hurt with a herniated disc in his neck and they're talking that he might miss half the season. Doesn't seem to be worth it.
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I was talking about going after him this offseason when he is a free agent for next season. I'm assuming he will be healthy by then .. unless you knew that was what I meant and wouldn't like him either way.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
I was talking about going after him this offseason when he is a free agent for next season. I'm assuming he will be healthy by then .. unless you knew that was what I meant and wouldn't like him either way.
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I have a herniated disk in my neck. It doesn't simply go away and depending on the severity, might need surgery which has a hellishly long recovery period. I'd like to see the MRI as physical therapy may be all that is necessary.
 
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