PRESEASON Grades v. Nuggets 10/18

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Peja ( B- ) -- fairly active start, but wasn't accomplishing much. Shot was off, and was again running away from the glass like the ball was poison. But slowly worked his way into the game in the second half. Hit a couple of threes, and finally grabbed a few boards. Finished with an 18pt night, although it was never smooth or easy. Found himself in the post against Earl Watson on several occasions, and came away with mixed results. Struggled to contain Carmelo when he was on him, although Melo was nice enough to fumble the ball and dribble it off his foot repeatedly to help us stay close. Nothing special here, but an acceptable preseason type effort.
Reef ( B- ) -- strange game from Reef. Hard to figure him out right now. Again made a couple of nice passes, but scored almost all of his points on FTs, only took 4 shots, and only hit 1. Grabbed a few boards, but all were offensive, nothing on defensive glass. Made a couple of good help defense stops in the third. Then got called for a string of fouls in the early 4th quarter, lost his temper + got the tech. Add it all up and what do you have? Not sure. Seems to be trying to fit in. But maybe too much. Doing some good things, but not asserting himself with any consistency.
Miller ( B+ ) -- only guy scoring early, recipient of a series of give and goes and cuts to the hoop. Made another unusually strong inside move at the end of the third, and then hit a three pointer to tie to close the quarter. Made a couple of nice passes, per usual, but other than the scoring, not much to talk about.
Wells ( B+ ) -- had an early flying dunk, but otherwise began the game missing perimeter shots and not having much of an impact. But really came alive in the third quarter and keyed us on both ends of the floor with steals, a block, and a variety of inside work on offense. Kept us close despite our general struggles.
Bibby ( C ) -- remains stubbornly in a funk -- its preseason, but its still time for Mike to wake up here at some point. Got off to a slow start as Earl Watson was very physical and aggressive and took him out of the game in the early going. Mike's defense was also lacking early, and the shot would not fall from anywhere. Showed more compusure and leadership as the game went along -- you could see him fighting it and trying to get himself going. Active to start the second half, but still could not get anything to fall. Didn't get his first points until a pair of FTs at the very end of the third quarter, and as these things sometimes do, that seemed to take the lid off the hoop and he quickly followed it up with a jumper. Actually played ok defense against Boykins for a brief stretch at the end of the quarter. Overall, did a solid job setting people up after adjusting to the pressure the Nuggets' scrappers brought early, but 1-9 just isn't going to cut it.
Hart ( B- ) -- the news of the night -- Jason Hart loses his Kings virginity and truly becomes one of the gang with his first injury. Under the piksi theory, maybe I should give him an F. And he got hurt in the final minute of the game too. Lovely. Looked like maybe some sort of hip or abdomen pull, but he tried to play through it for a play, and then went down like he was shot on the final play play of the game (and in the process breaking down our final play and costing us a chance to tie, as if that matters in preseason). Before that event, was having a decent game. A couple of nights after having to try to check Baron, ran into another brutal matchup nightmare with Boykins, and did about as well as you can hope. Got beat here and there, but also made some nice stops and kept the litte twerp from just slashing into the paint at will. Again willing to use fouls as necessary. Couldn't play that way as a starter, but very effective as a backup. Missed on a couple of wild drives and in general was shaky with the shot. But competitive as always.
Thomas ( B ) -- brought in early at SF for Peja so we could get some rebounding, good to see us checking out that look in the preseason. Missed his first jumper while fading -- its near 100% with Kenny, moving = miss, feet set = hit. Aggressive from the start as usual, but was forcing things a bit early. Was more settled in the second half and made a couple of nice plays -- first a nice deep turnaround jumper from the corner with a man in his face in the 4th, and a few minutes later made a great pass to a cutting Jason Hart. Overall a solid effort. Nothing spectaclar, but with more good moments than bad.
Martin ( C ) -- drew the early assignment against Andre Miller and quickly picked up fouls. Also got blown by by Demarr Johnson during a slow defensive start for him. Badly missed his first drive as well and seemed out of rhythm and bothered by the Nuggets pressure. But still made some athletic help plays on defense and dove back in to help out on the defensive glass. Not sure what to make of his game again. He airballed his first shot, and this kid who scored 15 last game suddenly clams up and does not even attempt another shot. And its not like he lacks the ability to create a shot either. Just never sure what he's thinking out there on offense. Aggression level seems to swing wildly up and down.
Garcia ( C- ) -- first half stint didnt do much, forced several shots, got picked cleanly by Miller in the open court, but did score again on one of our Princeton cuts on a Bibby pass. Made some dumb plays down the stretch, forced a shot, some fouls, then lost his cool and picked up a technical, and ended up getting pulled by Rick as a result. Gained a little redemption when he was reinserted in the final 40 seconds on a set play to hit a three to bring us within one. That play and the score off the cut in the first half were the saving graces of an otherwise scrappy night. Not sure what is up with the selfish ballchucking right now. Cisco was never a truly huge scorer in college, and his rep would have been as a leader and offensive facilitator not a consciousless gunner. But seems to be throwing up, and missing, a lot of very quick shots for us for some reason. Seems out of character, and I'm unclear on the motivation.
Skinner ( B ) -- solid first half -- protected the rim on one play, blocking a dunk attempt by one of the Nuggets camp invites. And got going on offense as the second quarter continued and began to score in close. Nothing spectacular or complex, just being active and going to the front of the rim. Not as much impact upon his return in the 4th.
Williamson ( B ) -- last of the 11 to enter, and only got the first half minutes. Was more settled than the players he replaced, and the stats say he grabbed a number of boards, although I only noticed a couple actually.
Price ( INC ) -- came in in the final couple of minutes for Garcia and was immediately victimized by Voshon Lenard on a backdoor cut. But afterwards showed respectable defense, even against Boykins. And opportunity may have knocked for him in the worst Kings fashion in the final seconds of the game as Hart went down. Bad for us. But should open up minutes for Price & Flores in future games if it lingers.

Adelman ( -- ) -- well, a couple of nights after getting off to the great start against the Warriors, this time it was obvious there is still more work to be done. An ok game for us until the Hart injury, but like everybody's grade, just ok. Nobody was great. Started out as a preseason scrimmage, and then a real, competitive, basketball game broke out. Denver was all kinds of shorthanded and missing their entire frontline, but what they brought instead was their own version of the scrappy defensive oriented bench. Najera, Watson, Elson put tremendous pressure on our starters, and we wilted under the early pressure. Real key may have been the Nuggets trio of PGs -- collectively likely the best in the NBA -- putting constant pressure on our PGs on both ends of the floor. Never really let us set up comfortably, and harassed Bibby and Hart into a combined 4-18. We eventually adpated, but were never really comfortable or in true rhythm. It was really more just a series of individuals going on hot streaks to keep us around rather than the whole team coming to life. At the end of the game liked the way Rick handled Garcia -- when he got out of control and selfish, he pulled him. But didn't let the kid just sit & sulk and therefore maybe lose him. Instead let him cool off and calm down and then brought him in in the final seconds and even called a play for him.
 
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You're right I don't think Reef knows how to really fit in with this lineup yet. I think they need to be a little more aggressive in getting him the ball in the post. We hardly did anything out of the post tonight.

Like I said in another thread I think Adelman needs to settle on a starting lineup pretty soon so they can get more acclimated to one another. I think with experience Bibby, Wells, Peja, Reef, and Brad will be pretty darn effective.
 
Whatever happened to Jason Hart....it looked bad. He basically crumbled on the court. I think he really tweeked his hip muscle bad. He could not even walk off the court. He had to be carried. Ronnie Price and Luis FLores look like hamburger patty so now we are w/o a back-up point guard.

I thought the worst news of the night was Kevin Martin continued disappearing act from legitimacy as an NBA player, and then we lose J Hart....at least 1-2 weeks would be my guess at best. And those are important weeks he needed to learn his teammates. Mike Bibby can't guard his own shadow so opposing guards will have free reign until Hart heals.

One of the concerns I see with the team right now is a overall lack of team speed....The Nuggets were just quicker than us....and that was with their top guys out. We do not have players who can break down their own man one-on-one (to set up Peja and Bibby for easy looks). Last year B-Jax could really change tempo, penetrate and dish.....Christie did that for 5 years....now we don't have that. To be a great team you have to get your fair share of easy baskets in half court and transition....I see us working too methodically to get our points.

As much as I like Francsico....its too bad Nate Robinson got plucked a few picks earlier. He was the infusion of speed and athleticism we needed.

I have been critical of K Mart (and been blasted for it) but tonite was a new low. The guy looks like a newborn puppy who wandered too far from home....lost and scared.
His confidence is as a fragile as his physique. He does not want the ball or any part of the action, basically, unless it is an alley oop pass, or he has clear lane to the hoop. He got abused by Andre Miller....in the post, on the perimeter....K Mart, IMHO, is a poor mans version of Matt Barnes....Matt is tougher with a better shot, though less athletic. And Matt will struggle to make the Knicks roster.

You can say I am ripping on him unfairly, but look, Maurice Evans was casted aside in favor of this guy. Mo Evans is going to get steady minutes for a championship team in the Detroit Pistons. I already miss Mo Evans and his defense, strength, hustle, board work. THe guy was coming into his own, and we let him go only b/c K Mart was under contract. It is a shame!!! (And this is the source of my criticism of K-Mart, not just to dump on him. Mo Evans should still be on our roster)

WHen Geoff Petrie drafted K Mart, I think he envisioned him as a potential player in the mold of Marquis Daniels, or Josh Howard, Rip Hamilton, or Andre Igualdala....anything resembling these studs and he hits a homerun. But he is not a wing player, not a ball handler, has no post skills....until they invent the position of designated lay-up maker, K-Mart is a player without a position....or a future in the NBA.

Also the Kings do not know how to use Shareefs' talents yet. I cannot remember him getting the ball in low position to go to work. (But, I see this as only a temporary problem)

To end on a positive note, Brad Miller rocks. Brad is just so fundamentally sound it is ridiculous. A Bonzi Wells will fill up a stat sheet given 30-40 minutes playing time.

Get well J Hart!!!!!!
 
Good to see we won the points in the paint and fast break points. Didn't get beat on the boards by a lot.

I think SAR will be alright.
 
bye_bye_bjax24 said:
Whatever happened to Jason Hart....it looked bad. He basically crumbled on the court. I think he really tweeked his hip muscle bad. He could not even walk off the court. He had to be carried. Ronnie Price and Luis FLores look like hamburger patty so now we are w/o a back-up point guard.

I thought the worst news of the night was Kevin Martin continued disappearing act from legitimacy as an NBA player, and then we lose J Hart....at least 1-2 weeks would be my guess at best. And those are important weeks he needed to learn his teammates. Mike Bibby can't guard his own shadow so opposing guards will have free reign until Hart heals.

One of the concerns I see with the team right now is a overall lack of team speed....The Nuggets were just quicker than us....and that was with their top guys out. We do not have players who can break down their own man one-on-one (to set up Peja and Bibby for easy looks). Last year B-Jax could really change tempo, penetrate and dish.....Christie did that for 5 years....now we don't have that. To be a great team you have to get your fair share of easy baskets in half court and transition....I see us working too methodically to get our points.

As much as I like Francsico....its too bad Nate Robinson got plucked a few picks earlier. He was the infusion of speed and athleticism we needed.

I have been critical of K Mart (and been blasted for it) but tonite was a new low. The guy looks like a newborn puppy who wandered too far from home....lost and scared.
His confidence is as a fragile as his physique. He does not want the ball or any part of the action, basically, unless it is an alley oop pass, or he has clear lane to the hoop. He got abused by Andre Miller....in the post, on the perimeter....K Mart, IMHO, is a poor mans version of Matt Barnes....Matt is tougher with a better shot, though less athletic. And Matt will struggle to make the Knicks roster.

You can say I am ripping on him unfairly, but look, Maurice Evans was casted aside in favor of this guy. Mo Evans is going to get steady minutes for a championship team in the Detroit Pistons. I already miss Mo Evans and his defense, strength, hustle, board work. THe guy was coming into his own, and we let him go only b/c K Mart was under contract. It is a shame!!! (And this is the source of my criticism of K-Mart, not just to dump on him. Mo Evans should still be on our roster)

WHen Geoff Petrie drafted K Mart, I think he envisioned him as a potential player in the mold of Marquis Daniels, or Josh Howard, Rip Hamilton, or Andre Igualdala....anything resembling these studs and he hits a homerun. But he is not a wing player, not a ball handler, has no post skills....until they invent the position of designated lay-up maker, K-Mart is a player without a position....or a future in the NBA.

Also the Kings do not know how to use Shareefs' talents yet. I cannot remember him getting the ball in low position to go to work. (But, I see this as only a temporary problem)

To end on a positive note, Brad Miller rocks. Brad is just so fundamentally sound it is ridiculous. A Bonzi Wells will fill up a stat sheet given 30-40 minutes playing time.

Get well J Hart!!!!!!

It's also too bad Hodge (the sexual assault thing is too early of a thing right now to know exactly what happened), Nate, Granger, Graham got picked a bit before us also. I'm glad we picked Garcia, as he was one of my top 3-5 guys I wanted us to be picked, and three of them were already gone. I was actually surprised he wasn't gone earlier. Garcia's gonna be really good for us, and a very solid NBA player.

I predict J-Hart to be okay by Saturday.
 
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bye_bye_bjax24 said:
Whatever happened to Jason Hart....it looked bad. He basically crumbled on the court. I think he really tweeked his hip muscle bad. He could not even walk off the court. He had to be carried. Ronnie Price and Luis FLores look like hamburger patty so now we are w/o a back-up point guard.

I thought the worst news of the night was Kevin Martin continued disappearing act from legitimacy as an NBA player, and then we lose J Hart....at least 1-2 weeks would be my guess at best. And those are important weeks he needed to learn his teammates. Mike Bibby can't guard his own shadow so opposing guards will have free reign until Hart heals.

One of the concerns I see with the team right now is a overall lack of team speed....The Nuggets were just quicker than us....and that was with their top guys out. We do not have players who can break down their own man one-on-one (to set up Peja and Bibby for easy looks). Last year B-Jax could really change tempo, penetrate and dish.....Christie did that for 5 years....now we don't have that. To be a great team you have to get your fair share of easy baskets in half court and transition....I see us working too methodically to get our points.

As much as I like Francsico....its too bad Nate Robinson got plucked a few picks earlier. He was the infusion of speed and athleticism we needed.

I have been critical of K Mart (and been blasted for it) but tonite was a new low. The guy looks like a newborn puppy who wandered too far from home....lost and scared.
His confidence is as a fragile as his physique. He does not want the ball or any part of the action, basically, unless it is an alley oop pass, or he has clear lane to the hoop. He got abused by Andre Miller....in the post, on the perimeter....K Mart, IMHO, is a poor mans version of Matt Barnes....Matt is tougher with a better shot, though less athletic. And Matt will struggle to make the Knicks roster.

You can say I am ripping on him unfairly, but look, Maurice Evans was casted aside in favor of this guy. Mo Evans is going to get steady minutes for a championship team in the Detroit Pistons. I already miss Mo Evans and his defense, strength, hustle, board work. THe guy was coming into his own, and we let him go only b/c K Mart was under contract. It is a shame!!! (And this is the source of my criticism of K-Mart, not just to dump on him. Mo Evans should still be on our roster)

WHen Geoff Petrie drafted K Mart, I think he envisioned him as a potential player in the mold of Marquis Daniels, or Josh Howard, Rip Hamilton, or Andre Igualdala....anything resembling these studs and he hits a homerun. But he is not a wing player, not a ball handler, has no post skills....until they invent the position of designated lay-up maker, K-Mart is a player without a position....or a future in the NBA.

Also the Kings do not know how to use Shareefs' talents yet. I cannot remember him getting the ball in low position to go to work. (But, I see this as only a temporary problem)

To end on a positive note, Brad Miller rocks. Brad is just so fundamentally sound it is ridiculous. A Bonzi Wells will fill up a stat sheet given 30-40 minutes playing time.

Get well J Hart!!!!!!

I think you have some good points. Kevin Martin is still very young and yes, a bit raw. But I think he can and will have a bright future, he is just so athletic and that is something you can't teach. The rest will come in time. And don't forget that he and Francisco come from a backround where they were the number 1 option they have to adjust.

One thing I have noticed is that our D hasn't been the bad thing in the losses thus far, its been our O. Don't forget that Rick Adelman has been changing the lineups and these guys are still not used to eachother, this is not something that will come over night. It may take well into the season to see what this team may actually look like. Be patient!

Trust me, two steps forwards, one back. They'll get it going. Its just going to take time.
 
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Oh geez.

This was the FOURTH game of the pre-season for a team didn't even start practicing until a couple of weeks ago.

What do some of you expect?

If you are truly Kings fans and you cannot even wait for the regular season to start before you feel you have to start dumping on our own players, then maybe our definition of fan is very, very different.
 
Kings113 said:
Didn't get beat on the boards by a lot.

Kinda faint praise when your opponent is reduced to starting Eduardo Najera and Fracnisco Elson, and then brings a vicious Eric Chenowith, Linas Kleiza, Mark Pope trio of superscrubbies off the bench.
 
SacTownKid said:
I think you have some good points. Kevin Martin is still very young and yes, a bit raw. But I think he can and will have a bright future, he is just so athletic and that is something you can't teach. The rest will come in time.

One thing I have noticed is that our D hasn't been the bad thing in the losses thus far, its been our O. Don't forget that Rick Adelman has been changing the lineups and these guys are still not used to eachother, this is not something that will come over night. It may take well into the season to see what this team may actually look like. Be patient!

Trust me, two steps forwards, one back. They'll get it going. Its just going to take time.

Agreed. Though I think we'll be okay by late November, maybe early December.
 
SacTownKid said:
I think you have some good points. Kevin Martin is still very young and yes, a bit raw. But I think he can and will have a bright future, he is just so athletic and that is something you can't teach. The rest will come in time.

One thing I have noticed is that our D hasn't been the bad thing in the losses thus far, its been our O. Don't forget that Rick Adelman has been changing the lineups and these guys are still not used to eachother, this is not something that will come over night. It may take well into the season to see what this team may actually look like. Be patient!

Trust me, two steps forwards, one back. They'll get it going. Its just going to take time.

Thank you.
 
Prety fair grades, maybe a little kind to Pedja and Reef, bud dead on with Wells and Brad the Indy connection may be one of the most powerfull forces for the Kings this season. I might have been a little kinder to Garcia based on beeing a rook and on his smart paly upon return after his T.
 
Wow, you guys are extremely generous to Garcia. That was a first class stinkbomb. I would have given him a D-, up from an F because he hit that last shot. Yeah, he's a rookie, give him time, etc. But man. He looked completely lost out there, forced horrible shots, but perhaps more important, repeatedly got burned on the defensive end, committed unbelievably stupid fouls (i.e. fouling people in the backcourt when the Kings were in the penalty) and then lost his temper and picked up a T when the Kings couldn't afford to have that. Really, really bad.

I really have to hand it to Rick Adelman. Other coaches, like Larry Brown or Jerry Sloan, would have put Garcia in the doghouse never to return after an outing like that. What does Adelman do? Puts him back in the game and draws up the second-to-last play for him and lets him (almost) be the hero. This deep respect for his players and his mindfulness of their confidence is why he's one of the most underrated coaches in the game. Just blew me away.

Other random observations:
- Remember in the offseason when I said the Kings would be a capable rebounding team? Um. Yeah. Forget I said that. Bricklayer and others were/are correct. Yikes.
- However, everyone who said Shareef Abdur-Rahim couldn't pass in the offseason owes me a quarter.
- Give Reef some time to fit in. Whenever players come to a new team there's always a certain amount of deference to the players who have been here, a la Bibby's arrival, and a desire not to force things.
- Same with Martin. Give him some time. He needs to be more assertive, but at least he's playing smart, unlike Garcia.
- I really like how Bonzi is fitting in, although he needs to stop taking outside shots.
- I really don't like KT at the SF position. It brings out the worst in his chucker tendencies and he tends to take bad shots. He's capable defending opposing SFs, but guarding SFs on the perimeter usually takes him out of rebounding position, which is where the Kings really need him.
- Hart is way more athletic than I thought he was. Let's hope he's not really injured all that badly.

That's all.
 
I hate to be so frustrated but--

Kevin Martin - had to get a (D) last night. Andre Miller made him look so awful, it appeared he wasn't even trying on several occasions. He stole the ball from him, went around him at will, and salivated posting him up. Martin tried hard, but was a mess on both ends.

Garcia (D) was awful in his own right, including a King-like tantrum that got him bench time. It's a complete tossup on who was worse. Can't see either warranting a C. They both hurt the team at times.

Miller B+ was working hard, and played nicely with Bonzi. Bibby showed up in the third quarter. Bonzi A was our best player.

KT worked hard B, but ultimately can't get shots off inside.

Shariff seems to look smaller every night B-.

As long as Peja shies away from loose balls can he ever get higher than an B?

Skinner B - liked his improved looking free-throw.

Wow - how do the Kings matchup with the Nuggies when Camby and Nene are also suited up?
 
LA King Fan II said:
I hate to be so frustrated but--

Kevin Martin - had to get a (D) last night. Andre Miller made him look so awful, it appeared he wasn't even trying on several occasions. He stole the ball from him, went around him at will, and salivated posting him up. Martin tried hard, but was a mess on both ends.

Garcia (D) was awful in his own right, including a King-like tantrum that got him bench time. It's a complete tossup on who was worse. Can't see either warranting a C. They both hurt the team at times.

Miller B+ was working hard, and played nicely with Bonzi. Bibby showed up in the third quarter. Bonzi A was our best player.

KT worked hard B, but ultimately can't get shots off inside.

Shariff seems to look smaller every night B-.

As long as Peja shies away from loose balls can he ever get higher than an B?

Skinner B - liked his improved looking free-throw.

Wow - how do the Kings matchup with the Nuggies when Camby and Nene are also suited up?

dont forget our own kmart.
 
LA King Fan II said:
Wow. I did forget him.

Don't feel bad, so did Grant Napear and Jerry Reynolds. I don't think they said the words "Kenyon Martin" all night, but they kept going on and on about Camby and Nene.

Another personal favorite Jerry Reynolds moment was when he said both the Nuggets' and the Kings' defenses are slightly better than their offesnes.

You go, Jerry.
 
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LA King Fan II said:
I hate to be so frustrated but--

Kevin Martin - had to get a (D) last night. Andre Miller made him look so awful, it appeared he wasn't even trying on several occasions. He stole the ball from him, went around him at will, and salivated posting him up. Martin tried hard, but was a mess on both ends.

Garcia (D) was awful in his own right, including a King-like tantrum that got him bench time. It's a complete tossup on who was worse. Can't see either warranting a C. They both hurt the team at times.

Miller B+ was working hard, and played nicely with Bonzi. Bibby showed up in the third quarter. Bonzi A was our best player.

KT worked hard B, but ultimately can't get shots off inside.

Shariff seems to look smaller every night B-.

As long as Peja shies away from loose balls can he ever get higher than an B?

Skinner B - liked his improved looking free-throw.

Wow - how do the Kings matchup with the Nuggies when Camby and Nene are also suited up?

Better than we would of the last two seasons (going with the current team), I'd think.
 
The only grade I could give cause I didn't see the game is an (F) for luck cause hart got hurt.
 
LA King Fan II said:
I hate to be so frustrated but--

Kevin Martin - had to get a (D) last night. Andre Miller made him look so awful, it appeared he wasn't even trying on several occasions. He stole the ball from him, went around him at will, and salivated posting him up. Martin tried hard, but was a mess on both ends.

Garcia (D) was awful in his own right, including a King-like tantrum that got him bench time. It's a complete tossup on who was worse. Can't see either warranting a C. They both hurt the team at times.

Miller B+ was working hard, and played nicely with Bonzi. Bibby showed up in the third quarter. Bonzi A was our best player.

KT worked hard B, but ultimately can't get shots off inside.

Shariff seems to look smaller every night B-.

As long as Peja shies away from loose balls can he ever get higher than an B?

Skinner B - liked his improved looking free-throw.

Wow - how do the Kings matchup with the Nuggies when Camby and Nene are also suited up?

Those are what if's dude! What if they had played and all went 0 for 17 and got blown out? It was a preseason game with a team that has been together for 2 weeks, thats right 2 weeks!!! Shareef looks smaller every night? Don't quite know what that means, he pretty much carried us with his getting to the line.
 
LA King Fan II said:
Kevin Martin - had to get a (D) last night. Andre Miller made him look so awful, it appeared he wasn't even trying on several occasions. He stole the ball from him, went around him at will, and salivated posting him up. Martin tried hard, but was a mess on both ends.

Garcia (D) was awful in his own right, including a King-like tantrum that got him bench time. It's a complete tossup on who was worse. Can't see either warranting a C. They both hurt the team at times.

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this. Both players were terrible last night.

Several other players were almost as bad, but those two stood out.

It was but one game for both, and one game should not lead to ultimate characterizations or impatient, rampant tirades about them.

It's so easy to fickle-post when a player has a bad game, but Garcia and Martin have both had a decent pre-season up until last night.

Patience....this team and its components have a lot that needs to come together, and it probably won't happen until after the regular season is well underway.
 
You're nicer to Bibby than I am .... I give him a huge INCOMPLETE

Preseason or not .... he IS NOT showing up.

For a man who says he wants to be a so-called TEAM LEADER .... I'm glad the rest of the team is not taking his lead.

IMO - Bibby doesn't even deserve a C

most of you already know ... Bibby is the player I am the most critical of

... sorry Bibby fans :cool:
 
I think we may all be getting a little too "regular season" in some of our assessments. Fact is that in years past we would not even be watching these games, and its hard to remember that they are completely meaningless and that every year at this time players use this time to shake off the rust and get into shape. Would regular season grades be lower? Sure. But its not the regular season. You have to expect some crappy disorganized play at times. And no matter how badly a guy struggles, in the end its largely meaningless unless he's involved in a battle for a roster spot.

Ditto with the injury thig -- fact is that we haven't played a remotely healthy team yet. They have all been sitting stars against us, Richardson, Brand and Kaman, Martin/Nene/Camby etc. But most of those guys would be playing in a regular season game. Just no reason to risk anything or press the issue for "games" that don't really matter and will be completely forgotten about as soon as the regular season starts. Meanhwiol scrubs play hard trying to make the team, and stars play like crap because they are saving it for the regular season.

BTW, how would we match up with the Nuggets frontline? Not well at all.
 
The one thing I've noticed is how well the team does with its starting 5(SAR,Wells,B,M,P) on the floor during the 3rd qtr. I missed the first half so I don't know if RA started them, but they made up the gap when they played and started struggling once they were subbed out.

Same with the Warriors, 3rd qtr was the starting 5 and they were good.

I'm assuming the vets are still warming up and not giving it their all yet.
 
Bricklayer said:
I think we may all be getting a little too "regular season" in some of our assessments. Fact is that in years past we would not even be watching these games, and its hard to remember that they are completely meaningless and that every year at this time players use this time to shake off the rust and get into shape. Would regular season grades be lower? Sure. But its not the regular season. You have to expect some crappy disorganized play at times. And no matter how badly a guy struggles, in the end its largely meaningless unless he's involved in a battle for a roster spot.

Ditto with the injury thig -- fact is that we haven't played a remotely healthy team yet. They have all been sitting stars against us, Richardson, Brand and Kaman, Martin/Nene/Camby etc. But most of those guys would be playing in a regular season game. Just no reason to risk anything or press the issue for "games" that don't really matter and will be completely forgotten about as soon as the regular season starts. Meanhwiol scrubs play hard trying to make the team, and stars play like crap because they are saving it for the regular season.

Agreed. This is what I've been saying...

Also why I haven't been getting frustrated or disappointed or something of the like over Bibby/Peja/SAR/Brad.

Since last season, this has been the closest I've followed the NBA in my life.
 
Bricklayer said:
BTW, how would we match up with the Nuggets frontline? Not well at all.

Actually, KMART is the one "PF" in th league that SAR should match up nicely against. Camby seems inconsistent, and I think Miller "could" keep him somewhat in check. Melo V. Peja is just a + for the Nuggets any way you slice it.
 
bye_bye_bjax24 said:
Whatever happened to Jason Hart....it looked bad. He basically crumbled on the court. I think he really tweeked his hip muscle bad. He could not even walk off the court. He had to be carried. Ronnie Price and Luis FLores look like hamburger patty so now we are w/o a back-up point guard.

I thought the worst news of the night was Kevin Martin continued disappearing act from legitimacy as an NBA player, and then we lose J Hart....at least 1-2 weeks would be my guess at best. And those are important weeks he needed to learn his teammates. Mike Bibby can't guard his own shadow so opposing guards will have free reign until Hart heals.

One of the concerns I see with the team right now is a overall lack of team speed....The Nuggets were just quicker than us....and that was with their top guys out. We do not have players who can break down their own man one-on-one (to set up Peja and Bibby for easy looks). Last year B-Jax could really change tempo, penetrate and dish.....Christie did that for 5 years....now we don't have that. To be a great team you have to get your fair share of easy baskets in half court and transition....I see us working too methodically to get our points.

As much as I like Francsico....its too bad Nate Robinson got plucked a few picks earlier. He was the infusion of speed and athleticism we needed.

I have been critical of K Mart (and been blasted for it) but tonite was a new low. The guy looks like a newborn puppy who wandered too far from home....lost and scared.
His confidence is as a fragile as his physique. He does not want the ball or any part of the action, basically, unless it is an alley oop pass, or he has clear lane to the hoop. He got abused by Andre Miller....in the post, on the perimeter....K Mart, IMHO, is a poor mans version of Matt Barnes....Matt is tougher with a better shot, though less athletic. And Matt will struggle to make the Knicks roster.

You can say I am ripping on him unfairly, but look, Maurice Evans was casted aside in favor of this guy. Mo Evans is going to get steady minutes for a championship team in the Detroit Pistons. I already miss Mo Evans and his defense, strength, hustle, board work. THe guy was coming into his own, and we let him go only b/c K Mart was under contract. It is a shame!!! (And this is the source of my criticism of K-Mart, not just to dump on him. Mo Evans should still be on our roster)

WHen Geoff Petrie drafted K Mart, I think he envisioned him as a potential player in the mold of Marquis Daniels, or Josh Howard, Rip Hamilton, or Andre Igualdala....anything resembling these studs and he hits a homerun. But he is not a wing player, not a ball handler, has no post skills....until they invent the position of designated lay-up maker, K-Mart is a player without a position....or a future in the NBA.

Also the Kings do not know how to use Shareefs' talents yet. I cannot remember him getting the ball in low position to go to work. (But, I see this as only a temporary problem)

To end on a positive note, Brad Miller rocks. Brad is just so fundamentally sound it is ridiculous. A Bonzi Wells will fill up a stat sheet given 30-40 minutes playing time.

Get well J Hart!!!!!!

Your rip/take on Martin is interesting. I really don't like his game either, although I would not be quite as harsh as you. I do think he's got a future in the NBA, but I can't see him ever achieving a starting role. Contrast that with Garcia - for all his youthful inexperience, etc.... I really believe he is going to be a talent in the league and was a great pickup in the draft.

We'll see.
 
G_M said:
Actually, KMART is the one "PF" in th league that SAR should match up nicely against. Camby seems inconsistent, and I think Miller "could" keep him somewhat in check. Melo V. Peja is just a + for the Nuggets any way you slice it.

Camby and K-Mart gotta stay healthy.

I really love Camby, just has had the injury bug a lot.
 
Brick, you are right. I have NEVER watched pre-season games as I have this year. Mostly because I'm hoping they'll still be a good team.

I am expecting too much. Actually, I think I'm wishing for too much. The size around the basket thing and Bibby's defense are just such glaring weaknesses, that it almost puts a fan on the defensive just watching.
 
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