Preaching Offense would be better for this team

[VF21]

I don't really want to get into a Mussleman vs. Adelman argument, but do people really think we have that good of a team and with a different coach would have significantly better results?

With the exception of Wells and the shifting of some role players, we have pretty much the same team we had after Artest arrived. Is it that good a team? No. Would/could we have significantly better results with a different coach? We'll never know but signs point to a distinct possibility IMHO.

 

[Warhawk]

Poor excuse.​

Geoff was confident Musselman would emerge this team with his defensive plan.​

you don't need players you need a coach and its obvious Musselman has used poor stress for defense. hes showing us why his teams have always sucked and hes doing the samething with the Kings.​

Excuse me? Let's see:

We have one talented big (Miller) who is out with the flu. He's also probably on the downside of his career, especially defensively).

Our best backup centers are 6' 7-9" PFs. And now Williams. And Pot fits in here at the end of the list somewhere. I'm sure other teams are quaking at the sight of Nasty or SAR lining up for the jump ball at the start of a game.

We have 2 PF who combined into one person would do well, unfortunately I don't think Muss has figured out how to do that.

His GS team was quite an improvement over the year before and he did well the next year considering the talent bleed they had.

If you look at the injuries/illnesses and roster since the start of the season, do you honestly think we are that good of a team?

 

[most_casual_observer]

I don't really want to get into a Mussleman vs. Adelman argument, but do people really think we have that good of a team and with a different coach would have significantly better results?

Absolutely, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Next question?

 

[sdballer]

Absolutely, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Next question?

Ok, in my best Hubie impression:

Your PG is one of the worst defenders in the league and has been in an unbelievably bad shooting slump, your shooting guard is a rising star but not quite there yet, your small forward just flew over the cukoos nest and thinks he's Michael Jordan, your power forward is Kenny Thomas, and your center is declining at a rapid pace (and has been injured).

Outside of that, you have a weak bench, pieces that don't fit, a lack of promising youth, and no clear direction.

I love the Kings. I always have. Mussleman may end up being a poor choice as coach. But, I really don't think this is a good team and I just don't get the irrational hatred toward Muss (or the love for Adleman). Guess its just me.

 

[Entity]

With the exception of Wells and the shifting of some role players, we have pretty much the same team we had after Artest arrived. Is it that good a team? No. Would/could we have significantly better results with a different coach? We'll never know but signs point to a distinct possibility IMHO.

Don't we have the exact same record we had this time last year?? I don't believe we had this many starters missing this many games this time last year or our leading scorer from last year injured the first 2 month but, playing anyway. So If we get healthy all at once I imagine we will finish about the same way we did last season a few games over .500 baring any trades and maybe an 8th place seed if other teams really suck.

 

[Entity]

Here is a good coach Joker Larry Brown as a Piston and as a Knick and how those teams fared before and after he left.

Detroit with larry
03-04 54-28
04-05 54-28

without Larry
05-06 64-18

Now NewYork without larry
03-04 39-43
04-05 33-49

With Larry
05-06 23-59

Now in 02 through 05 Larry Brown was thought as the best defensive coach in the game. Now he had great defensive players. Larry left and they got better??? New York made playoffs in 03-04 and slid a little the next season. then in came larry and they had the 2nd worst record in the league.

So yes my friend the coach is just the cover boy if you don't have the players you don't have jack ****

Don't try to bypass the profanity filters; they're there for a reason.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Here is a good coach Joker Larry Brown as a Piston and as a Knick and how those teams fared before and after he left.

Detroit with larry
03-04 54-28
04-05 54-28

without Larry
05-06 64-18

Detroit with Larry
Beat Miami, won the eastern conference, won a championship

Detroit without Larry
Did not beat Miami, did not win the eastern conference, did not win a championship

 

[most_casual_observer]

Ok, in my best Hubie impression:

Your PG is one of the worst defenders in the league and has been in an unbelievably bad shooting slump, your shooting guard is a rising star but not quite there yet, your small forward just flew over the cukoos nest and thinks he's Michael Jordan, your power forward is Kenny Thomas, and your center is declining at a rapid pace (and has been injured).

Outside of that, you have a weak bench, pieces that don't fit, a lack of promising youth, and no clear direction.

I love the Kings. I always have. Mussleman may end up being a poor choice as coach. But, I really don't think this is a good team and I just don't get the irrational hatred toward Muss (or the love for Adleman). Guess its just me.

You sum it up pretty well, maybe a little pessimistic, but that's OK. I'm just a guy who always believes the glass is half full, not half empty.

This team may not be great, but I just don't think they are as bad as they look right now.

 

[Entity]

Detroit with Larry
Beat Miami, won the eastern conference, won a championship

Detroit without Larry
Did not beat Miami, did not win the eastern conference, did not win a championship

I don't know if anybody has ever missed a point as badly as you just did. The point was the players. either way they were playing for ECC with or witout. New York however didn't get any better in fact got worse. they argument was the joker acting as if the coach matter more than the players.

 

[Vlade4GM]

So If we get healthy all at once I imagine we will finish about the same way we did last season a few games over .500 baring any trades and maybe an 8th place seed if other teams really suck.

that's a crappy situation to be in.

 

[Entity]

most definatley.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't know if anybody has ever missed a point as badly as you just did.

I didn't miss the point whatsoever; I disagree with your statement one hundred percent, and that was how I chose to say so.

Every team that Brown has ever coached in the NBA got better in his second year, so I'm not prepared to say that the Knicks wouldn't have been better had he stayed the course. I admit to having some reservations, simply because I don't think that the players that the Knicks have are well suited to Brown's coaching style, but I also believe (and I may very well be alone on this particular site in thinking this, but I don't much care) that that has more to do with the players than it does with the coach in this circumstance. The young players in New York are all ****heads that acted like they couldn't learn anything from Larry Brown, and then they had FSM (the head ****head) poisoning them against the coach, whom he didn't like personally because Brown wouldn't let him be "Starbury" (as if *that's* ever won a ****ing thing). Hell, judging by some of the comments that players like Lee and Frye and Robinson made after Thomas took over, it's almost as if they went out of their way to listen to Thomas to spite Larry Brown.

When players act that retarded, I don't put it on the coach. And furthermore, the last time I checked, the Knicks are still sorry. Not only that, but the east isn't nearly as competitive this season as it was last season, so I'm not willing to say that they've gotten any better. They may have had a worse record from the season before, but they had worse defenders, too; give Brown Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohammed instead of Eddy "no defense" Curry, and he wins at least as many games.

 

[Ryle]

I yawn on, the ever lasting coach "Eric Musselman". who brings nothing to the table and has made us a bad team altogether. atleast Rick Adelman had us playing good offense.​

its no surprise Musselman has put this team in to Mediocreville.​

instead of yawning on my thread yawn on the direction of this team and were it might be headed. there is no light at the end of the tunnel, the digging is slow and the tunnel is still dark.​

I yawn because every thread you start is baggin' on someone in the organization or the team as a whole. At this time last year as an
"offensive" team we were 13-20 with a coach and a system that had been in place the previous 7 seasons. We looked worse than we do now and were headed to the lottery. Today we are 14-17 with a new coach and pretty much new team except for Bibby & Miller who have both played pretty much like crap until Bibby has lit it up recently.

Our main problem is a serious lack of athleticism in the frontcourt and until we correct that we will struggle.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Our problems will continue to exist beyond the acquisition of frontcourt athleticism, as long as Musselman is the head coach.

 

[Bricklayer]

I yawn because every thread you start is baggin' on someone in the organization or the team as a whole. At this time last year as an
"offensive" team we were 13-20 with a coach and a system that had been in place the previous 7 seasons. We looked worse than we do now and were headed to the lottery. Today we are 14-17 with a new coach and pretty much new team except for Bibby & Miller who have both played pretty much like crap until Bibby has lit it up recently.

Our main problem is a serious lack of athleticism in the frontcourt and until we correct that we will struggle.

As a side point: Pretty much new team? I assume you meant pretty much exactly the same team we ended last season with 26-14.

Rick Adelman's Ron Artest Kings were 26-14 with Artest, Bibby, Miller, Bonzi, SAR, KT, Martin, Corliss, Pot, Garcia, Price & Hart. Muss's Ron Artest Kings are 14-17 with Artest, Bibby, Miller, Salmons, SAR, KT, Martin, Corliss, Pot, Garcia, Price, Hart, Douby, Taylor. Exacttly one player in our Top 10-12 has changed. Even though I continue to consider it obvious the Bonzi thing hurt us, Salmons has been better than expected, and Kevin has blossomed, making that pretty much a wash.

Oh, and just one extra little factoid BTW -- we've accomplished all of this while playing the fewest road games in the entire league so far.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Oh, and just one extra little factoid BTW -- we've accomplished all of this while playing the fewest road games in the entire league so far.

Ya know... it's more than a little rude of you to point this out to those of us who hadn't previously noticed that fact.

Yuck.

 

[BawLa]

Look at all the coaches of the last 15 years that have won championships.


And then tell me that each of those teams didn't have great players.





...thats what I thought. Not even Adelman could make our current roster a championship team. We were an 8th seed last year and we are at best an 8th seed this year. And that is taking into fact that everyone buys into a new system and performs at a high level. The fact is we just haven't built a championship team since the C-Webb days. So until we do, Muss doesn't get crap from me.

IMO it would be better for the Kings in the long run if we found our way onto the top 10 of the draft. Grab a young big dude to build around. Wait a couple years for some of our rediculous contracts to expire and build a talent base in the meantime.

Muss and Petrie need to work together to build a great Kings team that is different from our last era of greatness. This year is just one of those "transfer" years where we suck really bad but we find out who we really need to keep. Of course it is frustrating to the fans. But constantly whining and complaining and pointing fingers doesn't do a damn thing except let everyone on this board know how you feel.


If my fellow kingsfans' current fortitude is any sign of who they are as people, then I am ashamed to call some of you my brethren.

 

[vfettke]

sounds like we need to trade musselman for Garnett

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Somehow, the failure of Muss to produce a defensive squad vindicates Rick in my mind. He was fired because the Maloofs wanted a defensive oriented coach, and many people critisized Rick because he wasn't able to do that...now that Mussleman hasn't either, I think we lost a very good coach in Adelman.

I know that this has been brought up before, but I think the argument bears weight to the argument about Adelman's coaching abilities: The 2002-2003 Kings were one of the best defensive teams in the league. Their 42% Opponents FG% was close to, if not the best, in the league. With only one stand out defender in the starting 5, Christie, Adelman had to coach team defense to achieve this feat...

 

[Ryle]

Somehow, the failure of Muss to produce a defensive squad vindicates Rick in my mind. He was fired because the Maloofs wanted a defensive oriented coach, and many people critisized Rick because he wasn't able to do that...now that Mussleman hasn't either, I think we lost a very good coach in Adelman.

I know that this has been brought up before, but I think the argument bears weight to the argument about Adelman's coaching abilities: The 2002-2003 Kings were one of the best defensive teams in the league. Their 42% Opponents FG% was close to, if not the best, in the league. With only one stand out defender in the starting 5, Christie, Adelman had to coach team defense to achieve this feat...

Did you forget that that team also had Keon Clark??? Having a shot blocker back there at least makes players think twice about driving to the lane. With this team if you get around the perimeter defense it's a clear lane to the basket and even if someone rotates over there is still no threat of their shot being blocked.

Adelmans team last year(prior to the Artest trade) was playing just as bad as this one. Adelman also had the luxury of winning alot of games with a core of Webb, Vlade & Bibby pretty much in the prime of their careers....those 3 will win you alot of games by themselves.

 

[Bricklayer]

Did you forget that that team also had Keon Clark??? Having a shot blocker back there at least makes players think twice about driving to the lane. With this team if you get around the perimeter defense it's a clear lane to the basket and even if someone rotates over there is still no threat of their shot being blocked.

Adelmans team last year(prior to the Artest trade) was playing just as bad as this one. Adelman also had the luxury of winning alot of games with a core of Webb, Vlade & Bibby pretty much in the prime of their careers....those 3 will win you alot of games by themselves.

Actually I'm pretty sure Adleman's team pre trade was STILL playing better defense than this one. And that was without a single to defender ont he roster anywhere.

And post trade -- you know after the Rick's roster became pretty much identical to Muss's roster now -- its not even close. We allowed something like 8 points fewer a game than we are doing now, at least 20% lower FG%.