Power Forwards: Kings vs. the West

[CruzDude]

(Updated Tuesday 2 August)

Shareef, Nene and now Walker. The rumors are flying on the "desparate" need of the Kings getting a power forward. I just took another casual look at the current power forward inventory available as FA's. We already know who we face 4 times a year in the west: Nowitzki, Brand and Duncan.

So many PF's have committed to other teams in the past 10 days there are not many left. Steven Hunter of the Suns, Nene of the Nuggets, Magloire of the Hornets but I don't see any other really decent starting type PF's that are much better or necessarily any better than our odd lot of PF's. LaFrenz and Reggie Evans are getting some change team hype but thats about it.

Nothwithstanding that Amare will move to PF this year with their new big's coming in the middle. So Hunter is available but at what price? Same for Magloire.

If we add scoring power in Kevin and Cisco and one other summer leaguer, maybe what we really need is a defensive PF who can start to slow down or shut down the others. Not quite a Fortson or Massenburg more like a Collison maybe a Nene but...... well you get the idea.

Nene is my most intriguing: only 23, 6.2 rpg and 10 pts in 28 min/gm, only 64% FT, PF body but Denver is needing a starting SG and a backup center. That brings up an interesting thought: Bonzi for Nene?

Here is my quick and far from totally correct list of PF's on current rosters:

Nowitzki - Mavs
Camby, Nene - Nuggets
Cabarkapa, Murphy, Diogu, Taft - Warriors
Taylor, Howard, Nachbar - Rockets
Brand - Clips
Grant, Medvedenko (?), Odom - Lakers
Collison, Fortson, Evans - Sonics
Randolph, Ratliff - Blazers
Amare, Thomas, Hunter (4 or 5) - Suns
Horry, Massenburg, Duncan - Spurs
Boozer, Humphries - Jazz
Griffin, Thomas - Wolves
Brown, Lampe, Anderson - Hornets
Kenny Thomas, Skinner, Songaila - Kings

 

[VF21]

Other than Nowitzki, Brand, Duncan and Hunter?

I think that's just about the whole problem in a nutshell. Three of those players are on teams we have to face if we're serious about getting back into the hunt. And our PF trio - if we keep Darius - just isn't gonna get the job done IMHO.

 

[CruzDude]

Yep. Agree. But of the three we hear about, who can "get'er done" with that illustrious bunch?

 

[VF21]

I don't want to post my answer, because that ship has sailed.



I still think moving Brad to the 4 and finding a body to put into the 5 would be a much easier fix, especially if we could get rid of a couple of those smaller contracts we got in February.

 

[Alacron]

I still think moving Brad to the 4 and finding a body to put into the 5 would be a much easier fix, especially if we could get rid of a couple of those smaller contracts we got in February.

I don't know if that would be easier... with softness and unathleticism entrenched in our SF and PF spots, we'd need a defensive/rebounding stalwart to man the pivot. Who do you envision us getting? Hunter is one possibility I'd be happy with, but are there others?
~~

 

[Bricklayer]

Hmm...problem is I think your PF list is a bit flawed. Here are the PFs as of last season + offseason moves so far:

Listed in approximate "power" order:
Duncan - Spurs
KG - Wolves
Amare - Suns
Nowitzki - Mavs
Brand - Clips
KMart/Nene - Nuggets
Gasol/Swift -- Grizzlies
Randolph/Shareef - Blazers
Boozer - Jazz
Odom - Lakers
Evans/Fortson - Sonics
Murphy/Diogu - Warriors
Kenny Thomas, Skinner, Songaila - Kings
Brown - Hornets
Howard - Rockets

13th out 15 is not exactly contending sort of stuff. It'll get you a real nifty draft pick though.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

When the free agent season began, all signs pointed to the Suns resigning Hunter, but now it doesn't look all that likely with the money they are going to have to shell out to keep Joe Johnson, which makes me really like the idea of brining in Hunter. Hunter's not going to command an entire MLE, but splitting it with Mo or another player that provides toughness and defense might be the best way of using it. Hunter's no offensive machine, but he's 7'0" and is a phenominal athlete who can actually get up and down the floor and block shots.

 

[Mad D]

Here is my quick and far from totally correct list of PF's on current rosters:

Here's another list (Hope you don't mind Brick and Cruz, I guess I should've sumbit before I took a shower)

P.Gasol, S.Swift -- Grizzlies

D.Nowitzki, K.Van Horn (if he slides over as a backup) - Mavs

K.Martin, Nene - Nuggets

T.Murphy, Z.Cabarkapa, I.Diogu, C.Taft - Warriors
(Davis is back in Indiana again)

J.Howard, V.Baker, C.Weatherspoon - Rockets
(Taylor is in NY, Nachbar is SF in NO)

E.Brand, C.Wilcox - Clippers


B.Grant, S.Medvedenko, L.Odom (played PF for them) - Lakers

N.Collison, D.Fortson, R.Evans - Sonics

Z.Randolph, T.Ratliff (started at PF along side Przybilla) - Blazers

W.McCarty, A.Stoudamire, K.Thomas - Suns

R.Horry, T.Duncan - Spurs

C.Boozer, R.Humphries - Jazz

K.Garnett, E.Griffin - Wolves

P.Brown, D.West, M.Lampe, C.Anderson - Hornets

K.Thomas, B.Skinner - Kings

 

[SacTownKid]

Hmm...problem is I think your PF list is a bit flawed. Here are the PFs as of last season + offseason moves so far:

Listed in approximate "power" order:
Duncan - Spurs
KG - Wolves
Amare - Suns
Nowitzki - Mavs
Brand - Clips
KMart/Nene - Nuggets
Gasol/Swift -- Grizzlies
Randolph/Shareef - Blazers
Boozer - Jazz
Odom - Lakers
Evans/Fortson - Sonics
Murphy/Diogu - Warriors
Kenny Thomas, Skinner, Songaila - Kings
Brown - Hornets
Howard - Rockets

13th out 15 is not exactly contending sort of stuff. It'll get you a real nifty draft pick though.

Yet we were more of a contender, or at least just as much of one, as at a least 8-9 of those teams. Hmmm.... what was your point again?

 

[Bricklayer]

Yet we were more of a contender, or at least just as much of one, as at a least 8-9 of those teams. Hmmm.... what was your point again?

Take a look at the Top 4 teams on the list -- notice the PFs? remarkable -- 4 HOFs (assuming nobody gets hurt). And 3 of the 4 were the Conference Semi-Finalists.

We'd be ok in the East. But the West has been about PFs for the entire millenium. Beyond the Lakers, headed by an even bigger power player, just about every great team in the West has been led by a great PF. Its been since our epic clash with the Lakers in 01-02 that there haven't been TWO HOF PFs meeting in the Conference Finals. WCF PFs since Kings era began ('99):

Duncan
Malone
Wallace
Webber
KG
Nowitzki
Amare
Horry/Grant



and...er...Kenny Thomas next year?

 

[captain bill]

When the free agent season began, all signs pointed to the Suns resigning Hunter, but now it doesn't look all that likely with the money they are going to have to shell out to keep Joe Johnson, which makes me really like the idea of brining in Hunter. Hunter's not going to command an entire MLE, but splitting it with Mo or another player that provides toughness and defense might be the best way of using it. Hunter's no offensive machine, but he's 7'0" and is a phenominal athlete who can actually get up and down the floor and block shots.

The Suns are offering less than the massive contract Atlanta offered Johnson. There's no guarantee that he's staying. I posted an article over in the Joe Johnson thread, but it's still not really news until he actually makes a decision. Either way, the Suns won't overspend on Johnson meaning that they might have wanted to ensure keeping Hunter or cap space for free agent additions to supplement their rather meager bench.

 

[Bricklayer]

The Suns are offering less than the massive contract Atlanta offered Johnson. There's no guarantee that he's staying. I posted an article over in the Joe Johnson thread, but it's still not really news until he actually makes a decision. Either way, the Suns won't overspend on Johnson meaning that they might have wanted to ensure keeping Hunter or cap space for free agent additions to supplement their rather meager bench.

Well actually as a restricted FA its not up to JJ. He can choose right now to sign a smaller deal with the Suns rather than the max offer from the Hawks. But even if the Hawks go ahead and give him the max deal, by rule Phoenix will still have 7 days to match the offer and bring JJ back under Atlanta's max contract. So there's no way for him to leave unless Phoenix allows him to, and I just don't see them scuttling their team after such an insanely successful breakout season.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

A power forward that really intrigues me is Chris Wilcox from the clips, he is mad atheletic, strong great rebounder good defender and can score, but he has been stuck behind Brand the last cuple of years, when he has gotten his chance to start he has shown what he is capable of too, I think if the Clips are interested in Cat, Maybe a S&T for Wilcox could happen, He would be a nice forward to have on this team, and would really ante-up our frontcourt toughness.

 

[grun]

A power forward that really intrigues me is Chris Wilcox from the clips, he is mad atheletic, strong great rebounder good defender and can score, but he has been stuck behind Brand the last cuple of years, when he has gotten his chance to start he has shown what he is capable of too, I think if the Clips are interested in Cat, Maybe a S&T for Wilcox could happen, He would be a nice forward to have on this team, and would really ante-up our frontcourt toughness.

i don't think you can consider wilcox a good defender....and the fact that he just got caught with a gun is slightly concerning...

 

[Bricklayer]

i don't think you can consider wilcox a good defender....and the fact that he just got caught with a gun is slightly concerning...

What do you mean -- who the hell is going to drive down the lane on a guy packing heat?


And yes, there is absolutely no excuse for hsi defense -- impresses me as a big dumb athlete who may never get it and figure out what you have to do to win. But given our option of just losing Cat for nothing, why not take Wilcox on? Still young. Still has a chance to grow. Certainly has all the physical tools if somebody can just reach inside his knuckle head.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

i don't think you can consider wilcox a good defender....and the fact that he just got caught with a gun is slightly concerning...

Yes I can consider him a good defender, I've watched lots of Clippers games and when he played in Maryland, he is a good defender, and if he got more time and had a set role on a team then I think his defence would improve even more. Young, Strong, Athletic power forwards don't come around all the time, and the Clips just happen to want something from us so why not.

 

[BigWaxer]

I think we are screwed no matter what.

We are hurting on salary, overpaying people that shouldn't be overpaid. Trade value for most is nill due to consistant injuries.

Not sure what to think, just think we are the Niners of today (btw I do hate the Niners) and in a similar situation.

 

[LA King Fan II]

What hurts suddenly is that the Lakers with Brown and the Gonzaga kid will likely be very very physical. Nothing more painful than watching them bullying the Kings again.

I have pretty specific prayers regarding this matter these days, and it's pretty likely we've already went down swinging.

Peja for a big. Or add him with Jackson and maybe even get a guard, too. Something like Maggette and Wilcox would at least make us contender for homecourt in the playoffs. KT would be okay at the 3 and House came on as a backup point.

 

[AriesMar27]

depending on our style of play next year.... we'll only be screwed in the playoffs.... with our current roster we could easily still win 50-55 games and possibly be 4th or 5th seed depending on where dallas ends up.... and with our current line up, we could take dallas... i wanted dallas last year but we ended up with seattle.... depending on how well we play together the kings could take phoenix too..... short of some non-call goaltending we would have had them 3-1 last year... it is possible if this team can stay healthy... they could easily run teams out of the building, but losing games to the bobcats, hawks and raptors wont help.....

i saw we re-sign darius, trade thomas and corliss for anyone 6'9 or taller and sign hunter as a back up center or start him and play brad at pf.... to hell with evans, no more midget ball..... oh... andre-sign house, then trade bobby with thomas and corliss to sweeten the deal too ....

 

[LPKingsFan]

And now it's rumored that the Lakers may pull off a Butler for Kwame deal, so move them up a little with Kwame/Odom

 

[JB_kings]

I guess we can hope to count on Donald Sterling's cheapness. He could sign Cat straight out and still be under the cap. But if he's really cheap, he can give up a player in a sign and trade and minimize his loss. He's the only owner in the NBA that would give that some serious thought.

 

[CruzDude]

......

Peja for a big.

Pedja will be a King forever. He is one of the top 2-3 SF in the entire league. Perhaps the single best pure shooter-scorer in the NBA. He isn't going anywhere.

With Miller and Bobby healthy for a year we win in the high 50's. With some work Skinner can be great off the bench at both a 4 and 5, depending on matchups. Kenny Thomas is an anachronism: neither a 4 or a 3 but better then many at both. If only he could defend the top 4 in the west.

The Kings had more injury man-games missed last year than just about anybody PLUS CWebb was..... well, CWebb, whatever that was the first half of the year. Then we added 3 new bodies and still managed to win 50. But with such a new team it was no suprise we were 5 and out.

Nobody seems to have the patience enough to visualize the benefits of part of a season followed by a summer and a training camp for a bunch of new guys. Heck, we nor the staff know who should play what yet. We just gotta cool it dude. Instant change or instant success is not reality. So lets see what happens and suck it in for a bit.

Then lets all go to Vegas on Oct 28 to see the Kings and Lakers in what may be the last game of training camp, and a true view of the starting 5 and bench strength.

 

[Entity]

Geez this is getting crazy. we easily have a top 10 pg a top 5 SF and a top 10 Center. Nobody here knows who will be at the 2 will it be Martin or Evans or even Garcia. Any of them could turn into a top 10 sg you never know. Look at Ben Wallace undrafted not top 10 PF. Kevin Martin could be the next Kobe or T-Mac. Don't go giving up on the season because we can't get NeNe or Kwame Brown geez thats not saying much for the rest of our guys. Some argue that all the Championship teams of late had a Dominate big man. What they are forgetting is they also had a high scoing 2 guard. Michael Jordan, Manu Ginnobili, Rip Hamilton, Kobe Bryant, now it will be Kevin Martin.

 

[thesanityannex]

I agree with both cruz and entity. The season hasn't even started and some are calling it quits already. The Kings may not have the best team on paper, but heart still wins games.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I'm all for, and have been since all this free agent talk has begun, beed in favor of bringing Nene in. I think he would be worth our MLE, at least.

 

[acisking]

Geez this is getting crazy. we easily have a top 10 pg a top 5 SF and a top 10 Center. Nobody here knows who will be at the 2 will it be Martin or Evans or even Garcia. Any of them could turn into a top 10 sg you never know. Look at Ben Wallace undrafted not top 10 PF. Kevin Martin could be the next Kobe or T-Mac. Don't go giving up on the season because we can't get NeNe or Kwame Brown geez thats not saying much for the rest of our guys. Some argue that all the Championship teams of late had a Dominate big man. What they are forgetting is they also had a high scoing 2 guard. Michael Jordan, Manu Ginnobili, Rip Hamilton, Kobe Bryant, now it will be Kevin Martin.

i stringly disagree...could he be a good player - maybe....but a great star shooting guard - i highly doubt it...scoring in a summer league is vastly different from doing it in the NBA...plus saying that we should make a trade isn't really giving up on a season...rather, its probably the best thing we could do as a team at this moment in time

 

[Packt]

I agree with both cruz and entity. The season hasn't even started and some are calling it quits already. The Kings may not have the best team on paper, but heart still wins games.

Who says this team as is, has heart? It certainly didn't show up in the Playoffs. There was tons of trash talking, and succumbing in five games isn't what I call heart.

 

[Rowdyone]

Reggie Evans.

 

[VF21]

Who says this team as is, has heart? It certainly didn't show up in the Playoffs. There was tons of trash talking, and succumbing in five games isn't what I call heart.

And judging a team's heart, after good portions of it have been ripped out, isn't exactly fair IMHO.

A team can only survive so many mid-season blows. Regardless of what people thought about Christie and Webber, they were INTEGRAL components of the team. To see both of them leave mid-year was a crippling blow. The fact the Kings even made it to the playoffs after that was a tribute to the heart of the guys who still wore the uniform AND to the new ones who came in and did their best under some pretty harsh conditions.

I may not particularly like the fit some of the new guys are for our team, but I cannot question their heart. They tried their best - they simply ran out of steam and luck. When you're taking in essence a team that hasn't played together into the playoffs, you're not going to go far. You don't blame the players' heart... If anything, you blame the front office for creating the situation that was almost doomed from the start. When you combine the trades with Miller's broken leg, you have a recipe for failure. And that's what happened...

 

[whozit]

VF21,

Those were good points you just made.