Players that I would target with the 9th pick:
- Thread starter bajaden
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Kai Jones: C/PF, 6'11", 218 Lb's, 7'2" Wingspan, Sophmore, Texas.
22.6 mpg - 8.8 ppg - 58.0% fgp - 38.2% 3pp - 68.9% ftp - 4.8 rpg - 0.6 apg - 0.8 blk's.
I really like Jones, and believe that if he can add about 20 Lb's of muscle, and iron out a few things, he could eventually become an all star. I know his stats don't look gaudy, but he only averaged 22.6 mpg, and mainly because Shaka Smart tends to give time to the older players that he thinks have earned the time. But as the season went on, it became apparent that Jones was too good to be sitting on the bench, and with Greg Brown falling out of favor, his minutes started to go up. Brown was a top 10 player coming out of high school, while Jones was ranked 51st.
His original claim to fame in highschool came as a high jumper, but right before he turned 15, he had a growth spurt and then for the first time he turned his attention to Basketball. So he came to the game late. Apparently when he commits to something, he goes full bore. His coach at Texas, Shaka Smart said that Jones was the most dedicated, hardest working big man he ever coached. In high school, once he decided to turn to basketball, he was up at 4:30 am every morning to practice basketball, and he stayed after school everyday to work on his game. All while maintaining a 4.2 grade average. During the summer, being from the Bahama's, he worked out with fellow country man Deandre Aton.
Jones is a freak athlete, and fun to watch. He had some of the most spectacular dunks I've ever seen. He has a lightning quick second jump, and man can he run the floor. He's fast, and I mean, really, really, really fast. He'll beat everyone on both teams down the floor 95% of the time. I've seen him out run defending guards while dribbling the ball. Offensively he has little to no post game, even though he scores the majority of his points in the post. He gets his points by running the floor, put backs, alley oops and my attacking close out's from the perimeter. He has a mind blowing Eurostep that will remind you of Antetokumpo. I swear he has to cover at least 6 feet with that step.
Did I mention that he has a pretty decent jump shot that extends all the way out to the three point line. Someone did the numbers and discovered that when he was on the perimeter, squared up, and went straight up on his jumper, he made 51% of his 3pt shots. Unfortunately he took a lot of off balance shots, and also had a tendency to fall away on his shot at times causing him to miss. So with a good trainer, some work, and some discipline, he could turn into a good 3pt shooter. Despite all the bad habits, he still shot a very respectable 38.2% from the three. He also has a nice 15 to 16 foot stop and pop shot. In short, he is the prototypical big man of today. He just needs some polish.
His defensive/offensive plus/minus was the best on the Texas team with a defensive rating of around 98.5. That's pretty darned good. He has all the tools to be a very good defensive player, but he has to get stronger, and he has to cut down on his fouls, which kept him on the bench far to much. His rebounding needs to improve as well, and I think adding strength will help cure some of his inconsistency in that area. He showed potential as a shot blocker as well. Here's the thing, despite coming to the game late, and as a result still being rough around the edges, he's was still really good. Which begs the question, how good will he eventually be with NBA training and experience? I think the sky's the limit for Jones..
There will be some growing pains with Jones, but the reward could be great. As I said in the beginning, he has all the tools to eventually be an all star. He has a tremendous work ethic and has come a long way in a short period of time. I think he's just starting to tap his potential.
22.6 mpg - 8.8 ppg - 58.0% fgp - 38.2% 3pp - 68.9% ftp - 4.8 rpg - 0.6 apg - 0.8 blk's.
I really like Jones, and believe that if he can add about 20 Lb's of muscle, and iron out a few things, he could eventually become an all star. I know his stats don't look gaudy, but he only averaged 22.6 mpg, and mainly because Shaka Smart tends to give time to the older players that he thinks have earned the time. But as the season went on, it became apparent that Jones was too good to be sitting on the bench, and with Greg Brown falling out of favor, his minutes started to go up. Brown was a top 10 player coming out of high school, while Jones was ranked 51st.
His original claim to fame in highschool came as a high jumper, but right before he turned 15, he had a growth spurt and then for the first time he turned his attention to Basketball. So he came to the game late. Apparently when he commits to something, he goes full bore. His coach at Texas, Shaka Smart said that Jones was the most dedicated, hardest working big man he ever coached. In high school, once he decided to turn to basketball, he was up at 4:30 am every morning to practice basketball, and he stayed after school everyday to work on his game. All while maintaining a 4.2 grade average. During the summer, being from the Bahama's, he worked out with fellow country man Deandre Aton.
Jones is a freak athlete, and fun to watch. He had some of the most spectacular dunks I've ever seen. He has a lightning quick second jump, and man can he run the floor. He's fast, and I mean, really, really, really fast. He'll beat everyone on both teams down the floor 95% of the time. I've seen him out run defending guards while dribbling the ball. Offensively he has little to no post game, even though he scores the majority of his points in the post. He gets his points by running the floor, put backs, alley oops and my attacking close out's from the perimeter. He has a mind blowing Eurostep that will remind you of Antetokumpo. I swear he has to cover at least 6 feet with that step.
Did I mention that he has a pretty decent jump shot that extends all the way out to the three point line. Someone did the numbers and discovered that when he was on the perimeter, squared up, and went straight up on his jumper, he made 51% of his 3pt shots. Unfortunately he took a lot of off balance shots, and also had a tendency to fall away on his shot at times causing him to miss. So with a good trainer, some work, and some discipline, he could turn into a good 3pt shooter. Despite all the bad habits, he still shot a very respectable 38.2% from the three. He also has a nice 15 to 16 foot stop and pop shot. In short, he is the prototypical big man of today. He just needs some polish.
His defensive/offensive plus/minus was the best on the Texas team with a defensive rating of around 98.5. That's pretty darned good. He has all the tools to be a very good defensive player, but he has to get stronger, and he has to cut down on his fouls, which kept him on the bench far to much. His rebounding needs to improve as well, and I think adding strength will help cure some of his inconsistency in that area. He showed potential as a shot blocker as well. Here's the thing, despite coming to the game late, and as a result still being rough around the edges, he's was still really good. Which begs the question, how good will he eventually be with NBA training and experience? I think the sky's the limit for Jones..
There will be some growing pains with Jones, but the reward could be great. As I said in the beginning, he has all the tools to eventually be an all star. He has a tremendous work ethic and has come a long way in a short period of time. I think he's just starting to tap his potential.
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Physically, Jones has probably the highest ceiling in the draft. Wouldn’t be adverse to taking him at 9. At worse, he becomes WCS 2.0. At best, dude ends up being the modern 5 that all teams are looking for.
My biggest concern with him is whether he has a lil too much Bags/Willie-itis in him, where he sees himself more as a wing than a big.
My biggest concern with him is whether he has a lil too much Bags/Willie-itis in him, where he sees himself more as a wing than a big.
you may be right on tweener but remember tweener these days is more often between 4 and 5. Kings already have one player in that hole in Bagley. Bagley can’t play the 5 because no defensive IQ and can’t play the perimeter due to shot.
Barnes is probably worthy his own thread but I think he has similiar tweener problems for different reasons. As a perimeter player his shooting is well documented but his finishing is also average. Barnes has a significantly below average jump and a slow load time so he finishes using his advantage in length. In the NBA where teams will go under the screen he won’t have a length advantage.
On defense Barnes rebounding numbers are poor due to his load time as a his blocks. This poor explosion off the floor will limit his ability to play a small ball 5. You can’t have a 5 who is poor at defending the rim and rebounding. Green had almost double the rebounds in college that Barnes had.
I think Barnes has significant tweener potential and a high likelihood of busting.
Barnes is probably worthy his own thread but I think he has similiar tweener problems for different reasons. As a perimeter player his shooting is well documented but his finishing is also average. Barnes has a significantly below average jump and a slow load time so he finishes using his advantage in length. In the NBA where teams will go under the screen he won’t have a length advantage.
On defense Barnes rebounding numbers are poor due to his load time as a his blocks. This poor explosion off the floor will limit his ability to play a small ball 5. You can’t have a 5 who is poor at defending the rim and rebounding. Green had almost double the rebounds in college that Barnes had.
I think Barnes has significant tweener potential and a high likelihood of busting.
Well, it always comes down to the cup is half full or half empty. The only resemblance I see to Willy is the athleticism and size. But Kai so far has shown far more passion toward becoming a great player. He plays with way more aggression and intensity than Willy, and probably a more advanced skill set at the same point in time. I could take almost any player and drum up something I could worry about. When you look at Jones work ethic, and his head coach raving about his dedication to the game, I worry a lot less about him being the next Willy. I won't comment on Bagley because to be truthful, I know less about his mental state of mind than I do Jones.
Would someone who somehow see's Bagley or Willy as a comp for Jones, explain to me why? What in Jones game reminds anyone of Willy, other than the foot speed and athleticism. What makes anyone think of Bagley other than size and athleticism. Jones has no injury history, and as far as I know, has no interest in being a rap artist, nor in Willy's case, a clothing designer. Or is it simply because we have, or had history with those two players. Instead of seeing Willy, why not a young unmolded Anthony Davis, or Karl Anthony Towns. Why do we always want to see the negative side of everything?
I have no problem seeing the flaws in a player, but I try not to exaggerate them out of proportion. What I find encouraging about Jones is that yes, he's certainly raw in some areas, but was still a good, and at times an amazing player despite those flaws. Which as I said earlier, begs the question of how good can he be when he's all shiny and polished in a couple of years? People who are looking for upside in a pick should definitely be looking at Jones as a consideration.
Having said all that, I see where your coming from with your reference about wanting to be more of a wing than a big. Since I don't know Jones personally, I have no idea what his personal goals are, but his coach, Smart said that he was a very coachable player. So one has to assume that the King's should be able to mold him into the type of player they want. One that fits the team and the future. I know that a lot of people don't have faith in the Kings ability to develop players, but they have to remember that the training staff has been totally rebuilt and that Rico Hines is one of the most highly regarded trainers and developer of players in the NBA. So it's a new day in that area.
Would someone who somehow see's Bagley or Willy as a comp for Jones, explain to me why? What in Jones game reminds anyone of Willy, other than the foot speed and athleticism. What makes anyone think of Bagley other than size and athleticism. Jones has no injury history, and as far as I know, has no interest in being a rap artist, nor in Willy's case, a clothing designer. Or is it simply because we have, or had history with those two players. Instead of seeing Willy, why not a young unmolded Anthony Davis, or Karl Anthony Towns. Why do we always want to see the negative side of everything?
I have no problem seeing the flaws in a player, but I try not to exaggerate them out of proportion. What I find encouraging about Jones is that yes, he's certainly raw in some areas, but was still a good, and at times an amazing player despite those flaws. Which as I said earlier, begs the question of how good can he be when he's all shiny and polished in a couple of years? People who are looking for upside in a pick should definitely be looking at Jones as a consideration.
Having said all that, I see where your coming from with your reference about wanting to be more of a wing than a big. Since I don't know Jones personally, I have no idea what his personal goals are, but his coach, Smart said that he was a very coachable player. So one has to assume that the King's should be able to mold him into the type of player they want. One that fits the team and the future. I know that a lot of people don't have faith in the Kings ability to develop players, but they have to remember that the training staff has been totally rebuilt and that Rico Hines is one of the most highly regarded trainers and developer of players in the NBA. So it's a new day in that area.
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Why are you asking us about bringing up a player's negatives? We should only focus on the positives when the data shows that the majority of these players will bust rather than hit? They're certainly not busting, because of their strengths. In fact, given the data, scouting departments should overweight a player's negatives rather than his positives.
One of the selling points of Bagley was his love of the game. I remember quotes of Coach K saying Bagley was going to be one of the greats during his time in the league, because of his work ethic. That work ethic is still yet to be seen. Willie, on the other hand, was always a bit of a space cadet.
As for the worries about WCS and Bags seeing themselves more as wings than bigs, it's partially between the ears and partially the normal development for an uber athletic player like Kai, who has the ability to do a little bit of everything. At what point will they figure out that the money is in being a big? WCS certainly hasn't figured it out. And Bagley is trending that way.
Maybe Jones is the exception and adopts the trajectory of Giannis, but how many Giannis are out there? For every Giannis, there are 10k Bagleys, Willies, Skals, McGees (who, at one point, people thought he could be a 3)...
Ultimately, I like Jones. Would totally be okay with the Kings taking him at 9. But dude is going to be a boom or bust prospect. Can see him thriving and can see him being in the GLeauge after four years.
One of the selling points of Bagley was his love of the game. I remember quotes of Coach K saying Bagley was going to be one of the greats during his time in the league, because of his work ethic. That work ethic is still yet to be seen. Willie, on the other hand, was always a bit of a space cadet.
As for the worries about WCS and Bags seeing themselves more as wings than bigs, it's partially between the ears and partially the normal development for an uber athletic player like Kai, who has the ability to do a little bit of everything. At what point will they figure out that the money is in being a big? WCS certainly hasn't figured it out. And Bagley is trending that way.
Maybe Jones is the exception and adopts the trajectory of Giannis, but how many Giannis are out there? For every Giannis, there are 10k Bagleys, Willies, Skals, McGees (who, at one point, people thought he could be a 3)...
Ultimately, I like Jones. Would totally be okay with the Kings taking him at 9. But dude is going to be a boom or bust prospect. Can see him thriving and can see him being in the GLeauge after four years.
I don’t have many final convictions on most of the players other than Barnes whose combination of weaknesses screams tweener to me.
That said Jones is definitely the archetype of player, Uber athlete, but lacking in some skills and/or BBIQ that Vlade often drafted. In reading your summary I did not see BBIQ mentioned as a strength and it just left me with an uncomfortable feeling. I agree understanding negatives is as important as positives because the wrong combination of negatives can make you a tweener and a bust with no real position.
That said Jones is definitely the archetype of player, Uber athlete, but lacking in some skills and/or BBIQ that Vlade often drafted. In reading your summary I did not see BBIQ mentioned as a strength and it just left me with an uncomfortable feeling. I agree understanding negatives is as important as positives because the wrong combination of negatives can make you a tweener and a bust with no real position.
Comparing Jones to Willy and Bagley isn't bringing up Jones negatives, it's pure speculation on your part. You want to talk about his negatives, lets do it. Bring one up!!!!!! All you do is make statements as though it's fact, when in reality, you don't have a freaking clue how a player is going to develop. You know what, neither do I! I make guesses based on what I've seen from the player so far. It's an educated guess, but a guess non the less. I say how I think a player will turn out, but I never say I know how he'll turn out. Because I don't!
Your starting to look like a borderline troll to me, and at my age, I don't have the time, nor the patience to put up with your nonsense. Therefore, your going on my ignore list. Should work out well for you, I won't be able to see what you write, and therefore I won't be interfering with your insightful posts. Adios!
Still triggered by my Kispert position, I see. Whatever. Strange that you're tripping over my comments over Kai Jones, which are more than fair. And if you did any digging, you'll notice that I've been higher on Kai Jones than most, especially at #9. But carry on.
Edit: This part is funny: I say how I think a player will turn out, but I never say I know how he'll turn out. You made that conclusion from this comment: My biggest concern with him is whether he has a lil too much Bags/Willie-itis in him, where he sees himself more as a wing than a big. That's a pretty big jump in saying I make definitive statements.
Edit: This part is funny: I say how I think a player will turn out, but I never say I know how he'll turn out. You made that conclusion from this comment: My biggest concern with him is whether he has a lil too much Bags/Willie-itis in him, where he sees himself more as a wing than a big. That's a pretty big jump in saying I make definitive statements.
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With how Giannis has developed, worrying about whether an uber athlete big will end up trying to be more of a wing than a big is going to be normal. They all want to be Giannis. The problem is, there's only one Giannis, and for the teams that draft's those uber bigs, they likely won't get any production from them during that first (and most valuable) contract.
I’m not sure where your agitation lies as you yourself said he currently isn’t highly skilled. Is that point up for debate?
What you didn’t say and therefore left it feeling like a bit of a negative was his BBIQ. They may or may not be true, I don’t know. I find your analysis pretty thorough so if not mentioned I’m inclined to believe it’s not a strength and could well be a weakness. But perhaps you could clarify.
in terms of bigs who are athletic but not skilled or with a high BBIQ in terms of defensive anticipation or offensive manipulation... that certainly seems to describe WCS and Bagley. I’m not sure if it describes Kai or not.
What you didn’t say and therefore left it feeling like a bit of a negative was his BBIQ. They may or may not be true, I don’t know. I find your analysis pretty thorough so if not mentioned I’m inclined to believe it’s not a strength and could well be a weakness. But perhaps you could clarify.
in terms of bigs who are athletic but not skilled or with a high BBIQ in terms of defensive anticipation or offensive manipulation... that certainly seems to describe WCS and Bagley. I’m not sure if it describes Kai or not.
Davion Mitchell: PG, 6'2", 205 Lb's, 6'5" Wingspan, 4 yr Junior, Age 22, Baylor.
33 mpg - 14.0 ppg - 51.1% fgp - 44.4% 3pp - 64.1% ftp - 2.7 rpg - 5.5 apg - 1.9 steals.
Based on what Mitchell did this past season if have to include him in my group of ten players. I decided to put defense first, and therefore, Mitchell is included with flying colors. He's probably the best on ball defender in the draft. If I had to comp him, it would be Patrick Beverly with a better jump shot. Defensively he's a tough physical player that gets right up in the grill of anyone he's defending. He did a terrific job on Cade Cunningham despite the height disparity. He's also a very good off the ball defender with terrific instincts and anticipation in the passing lanes. There's really no point in talking any further about his defense. He's ready to play in the NBA right now on that side of the ball, and be a terrific asset.
Offensively, he had an outstanding year. He's made himself into an entirely different player than that 5'11", 165 Lb player that came out of highschool. He was recruited by Auburn, and played his Freshman year there, which was nothing to write home about. Not a lot of minutes, and I think he shot around 28% from the three. He then transfered to Baylor, and according to NCAA rules, he had to sit out a year. He didn't just sit and watch game from Baylor's bench. He learned their system, and worked on his game and his body. And while his Sophomore year at Baylor wasn't spectacular, it did show a lot of improvement from his Freshman year. He improved all his stats across the board and got his 3 pt percentage above 30%.
That brings us to this past season, and everything about Mitchell leaped off the stat page. 44.4% from the three and over 50% overall. There's not much he can't do offensively, except shoot a high percentage at the free throw line, and shoot floaters. I think I read that he only shot 7 floaters all season. At his height, that's a tool that he's going to need. And while I have no doubt he'll still get to the basket, it's going to be more difficult in the NBA. If I had to comp him offenively, I would agree with many of the scouts who have called him Donovan Mitchell light. He uses some of the same hesitation and crossover moves along with jab steps and step backs. In short, he'll have no problem creating his own shot.
As a lead guard I wouldn't compare him with Ball or anyone of that ilk. When I watch him play, he probably reminds more of Jrue Holiday as an overall comparison. I definitely think he's talented enough to be a starting PG in the NBA. I'm curious to see what his legal height is at the combine, and I worry a bit about his freethrow percentages. He's never shot over 70% in all three years in college averaging about 66% overall. It makes one wonder if his 44% 3 pt percentage is a result of real improvement, or a one year aberration. He did take around 5 three's a game, so the quantity was there. It makes one wonder how he was capable of hitting that many three's, many times off the dribble, and he can't make a freethrow with all the time in the world. But hey, he wouldn't be the first.
Obviously Mitchell isn't at the top of my list, but he wouldn't be a bad fit on the Kings with Wright only having one year left on his contract. and the Kings needing defense anywhere they can find it. We would just have to hope that his 3 pt shot is the real deal. He's only 6'2", but I saw him guard players much taller than him throughout the year, and it was amazing how often he made them give up the ball. He's a very smart player who spends a lot of time watching film on those he's going to guard. He's reported to have a very good work ethic which bodes well for his future.
33 mpg - 14.0 ppg - 51.1% fgp - 44.4% 3pp - 64.1% ftp - 2.7 rpg - 5.5 apg - 1.9 steals.
Based on what Mitchell did this past season if have to include him in my group of ten players. I decided to put defense first, and therefore, Mitchell is included with flying colors. He's probably the best on ball defender in the draft. If I had to comp him, it would be Patrick Beverly with a better jump shot. Defensively he's a tough physical player that gets right up in the grill of anyone he's defending. He did a terrific job on Cade Cunningham despite the height disparity. He's also a very good off the ball defender with terrific instincts and anticipation in the passing lanes. There's really no point in talking any further about his defense. He's ready to play in the NBA right now on that side of the ball, and be a terrific asset.
Offensively, he had an outstanding year. He's made himself into an entirely different player than that 5'11", 165 Lb player that came out of highschool. He was recruited by Auburn, and played his Freshman year there, which was nothing to write home about. Not a lot of minutes, and I think he shot around 28% from the three. He then transfered to Baylor, and according to NCAA rules, he had to sit out a year. He didn't just sit and watch game from Baylor's bench. He learned their system, and worked on his game and his body. And while his Sophomore year at Baylor wasn't spectacular, it did show a lot of improvement from his Freshman year. He improved all his stats across the board and got his 3 pt percentage above 30%.
That brings us to this past season, and everything about Mitchell leaped off the stat page. 44.4% from the three and over 50% overall. There's not much he can't do offensively, except shoot a high percentage at the free throw line, and shoot floaters. I think I read that he only shot 7 floaters all season. At his height, that's a tool that he's going to need. And while I have no doubt he'll still get to the basket, it's going to be more difficult in the NBA. If I had to comp him offenively, I would agree with many of the scouts who have called him Donovan Mitchell light. He uses some of the same hesitation and crossover moves along with jab steps and step backs. In short, he'll have no problem creating his own shot.
As a lead guard I wouldn't compare him with Ball or anyone of that ilk. When I watch him play, he probably reminds more of Jrue Holiday as an overall comparison. I definitely think he's talented enough to be a starting PG in the NBA. I'm curious to see what his legal height is at the combine, and I worry a bit about his freethrow percentages. He's never shot over 70% in all three years in college averaging about 66% overall. It makes one wonder if his 44% 3 pt percentage is a result of real improvement, or a one year aberration. He did take around 5 three's a game, so the quantity was there. It makes one wonder how he was capable of hitting that many three's, many times off the dribble, and he can't make a freethrow with all the time in the world. But hey, he wouldn't be the first.
Obviously Mitchell isn't at the top of my list, but he wouldn't be a bad fit on the Kings with Wright only having one year left on his contract. and the Kings needing defense anywhere they can find it. We would just have to hope that his 3 pt shot is the real deal. He's only 6'2", but I saw him guard players much taller than him throughout the year, and it was amazing how often he made them give up the ball. He's a very smart player who spends a lot of time watching film on those he's going to guard. He's reported to have a very good work ethic which bodes well for his future.
I love this guy. Out of the people I've watched so far, I think him and jalen Johnson from duke are players that got game.
Davion is such a savage on defense he would make this team so much better based off of that alone. I think he would light a fire under the other guys and force them to play hard. That's exactly what this team needs.
We saw the difference late in the season when the team plays hard on defense, they should be able to compete with anyone if they do that consistently
Davion is such a savage on defense he would make this team so much better based off of that alone. I think he would light a fire under the other guys and force them to play hard. That's exactly what this team needs.
We saw the difference late in the season when the team plays hard on defense, they should be able to compete with anyone if they do that consistently
What I did say, and you can surmise several things from it, was that he came to the game late, and I also said that he was rough around the edges or a bit raw overall. However I also pointed out that he maintained over a 4.0 grade average. So what does all that mean? It means he lacks some of the experience of players his age, which could mean he a bit behind the curve on BBIQ, but also that he's a very smart player, who should catch up in time. Actually, in my humble opinion he's already come a long way in a short period of time.
Now can I guarantee he'll turn into a super stud? No, all I can say is that he has all the tools, and his past history shows that he appears to be totally dedicated to the game of basketball. Look, I have no problem having people disagree with me, but please bring some substance, and I'm not speaking about you. Why did he choose two players with a negative image, that all the fans are very familiar with and use them as a possible comp. Sure, he's the same height and has a similar body type, but in my opinion, that's where the comparison ends. Why not compare him to a young Antetokounmpo who looked a lot like Jones when he came into the league. Why not Jarrett Allen or Christian Wood. Hell, even Nic Claxton wouldn't have been as negative.
He chose those two players because he knew he would likely get a rise out of me and some of the fans. And if not, and he actually believes that nonsense, then I apologize to him, but have no respect for his opinions. I do my best to never speak in absolutes, but that said, I do feel strongly about what I post, and I spend hours researching everything I can find about each player. That doesn't mean I'll be right about the future of that player, but over the years, I've been right more times than I've been wrong. But I have been wrong at times.
However for someone to come in and say that Corey Kispert reminds him of an ex- King player that in my opinion never should have set foot on an NBA floor, and that Kispert should be a 2nd round pick, is an insult to my opinions. I can guarantee you that you would be hard pressed to find one NBA scout that would agree with his assessment. If he had said that he didn't think Kispert was good enough to be a lottery pick, and that he would pick him somewhere in the 20's, I wouldn't have taken umbrage with that. There are scouts what would agree with that. But everything with him is to the extreme. And that's no accident!
Now can I guarantee he'll turn into a super stud? No, all I can say is that he has all the tools, and his past history shows that he appears to be totally dedicated to the game of basketball. Look, I have no problem having people disagree with me, but please bring some substance, and I'm not speaking about you. Why did he choose two players with a negative image, that all the fans are very familiar with and use them as a possible comp. Sure, he's the same height and has a similar body type, but in my opinion, that's where the comparison ends. Why not compare him to a young Antetokounmpo who looked a lot like Jones when he came into the league. Why not Jarrett Allen or Christian Wood. Hell, even Nic Claxton wouldn't have been as negative.
He chose those two players because he knew he would likely get a rise out of me and some of the fans. And if not, and he actually believes that nonsense, then I apologize to him, but have no respect for his opinions. I do my best to never speak in absolutes, but that said, I do feel strongly about what I post, and I spend hours researching everything I can find about each player. That doesn't mean I'll be right about the future of that player, but over the years, I've been right more times than I've been wrong. But I have been wrong at times.
However for someone to come in and say that Corey Kispert reminds him of an ex- King player that in my opinion never should have set foot on an NBA floor, and that Kispert should be a 2nd round pick, is an insult to my opinions. I can guarantee you that you would be hard pressed to find one NBA scout that would agree with his assessment. If he had said that he didn't think Kispert was good enough to be a lottery pick, and that he would pick him somewhere in the 20's, I wouldn't have taken umbrage with that. There are scouts what would agree with that. But everything with him is to the extreme. And that's no accident!
yeah I would prefer to keep it on Jones.
I can say with certainty that getting good grades has little to nothing to do with BBIQ. Why can I be certain? Well because I graduated top of my class in MBA and I have near zero BBIQ. My children both have very high IQ’s ( one is an Olympic Water Polo player and one played college basketball) which they got from their mother. She will routinely see things in real time that I have to rewind to see. So I am living proof book IQ and basketball IQ is uncorrelated.
that being said I can’t say for certain if Jones has or doesn’t have BBIQ. I haven’t seen enough film of him to know how effectively he anticipates the moves of his opponents. Is he Wagner level anticipation, normal participation or does everyone in the building know X wants to go left but him? I appreciate your perception on the topic. I will say if he lacks skill and BBIQ, that is a type of player I think we should avoid.
I can say with certainty that getting good grades has little to nothing to do with BBIQ. Why can I be certain? Well because I graduated top of my class in MBA and I have near zero BBIQ. My children both have very high IQ’s ( one is an Olympic Water Polo player and one played college basketball) which they got from their mother. She will routinely see things in real time that I have to rewind to see. So I am living proof book IQ and basketball IQ is uncorrelated.
that being said I can’t say for certain if Jones has or doesn’t have BBIQ. I haven’t seen enough film of him to know how effectively he anticipates the moves of his opponents. Is he Wagner level anticipation, normal participation or does everyone in the building know X wants to go left but him? I appreciate your perception on the topic. I will say if he lacks skill and BBIQ, that is a type of player I think we should avoid.
Then again, I don't think Kuminga looked bad in the G-league games but he probably didn't do himself any favors compared to expectation.
Barnes' numbers might be altered somewhat because he played mostly on the ball defensively even meeting opposing PG's in the back court. That to me is what makes him such an intriguing defender. Even if he's light on the boards, if he can switch and pick up ball handlers like that I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff.
Barnes' numbers might be altered somewhat because he played mostly on the ball defensively even meeting opposing PG's in the back court. That to me is what makes him such an intriguing defender. Even if he's light on the boards, if he can switch and pick up ball handlers like that I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff.
yeah I would prefer to keep it on Jones.
I can say with certainty that getting good grades has little to nothing to do with BBIQ. Why can I be certain? Well because I graduated top of my class in MBA and I have near zero BBIQ. My children both have very high IQ’s ( one is an Olympic Water Polo player and one played college basketball) which they got from their mother. She will routinely see things in real time that I have to rewind to see. So I am living proof book IQ and basketball IQ is uncorrelated.
that being said I can’t say for certain if Jones has or doesn’t have BBIQ. I haven’t seen enough film of him to know how effectively he anticipates the moves of his opponents. Is he Wagner level anticipation, normal participation or does everyone in the building know X wants to go left but him? I appreciate your perception on the topic. I will say if he lacks skill and BBIQ, that is a type of player I think we should avoid.
I can say with certainty that getting good grades has little to nothing to do with BBIQ. Why can I be certain? Well because I graduated top of my class in MBA and I have near zero BBIQ. My children both have very high IQ’s ( one is an Olympic Water Polo player and one played college basketball) which they got from their mother. She will routinely see things in real time that I have to rewind to see. So I am living proof book IQ and basketball IQ is uncorrelated.
that being said I can’t say for certain if Jones has or doesn’t have BBIQ. I haven’t seen enough film of him to know how effectively he anticipates the moves of his opponents. Is he Wagner level anticipation, normal participation or does everyone in the building know X wants to go left but him? I appreciate your perception on the topic. I will say if he lacks skill and BBIQ, that is a type of player I think we should avoid.
Barnes scares me. I just don’t see why you’d put the ball in his hands to make plays instead of HaliFox. I think he’ll be a good defender - but if he’s not a rim protector or outside shooter - that’s a tough sell for me as a lotto pick.
And I don’t think Mitchell is a great fit compared to the wing talent that is available (although his attitude is something the Kings need). But I think I’m coming around on Jones and Wagner. I really want to see the measurables this year before I select my draft crush.
The more I look - the more I feel confident that real talent will be on the board when the Kings pick. Hopefully they choose correctly.
And I don’t think Mitchell is a great fit compared to the wing talent that is available (although his attitude is something the Kings need). But I think I’m coming around on Jones and Wagner. I really want to see the measurables this year before I select my draft crush.
The more I look - the more I feel confident that real talent will be on the board when the Kings pick. Hopefully they choose correctly.
You don't put the ball in his hands necessarily, he is going to and can make plays for others when he has the ball and the potential for him is that he could have a fully complete game when developed. He didn't hog the offense in college, in fact he proved he could play within it. But of course that didn't give much indication he's a lock in terms of production as a go to so it makes him a tougher call. At 9-10 he's a no brainer. Higher than that? Fit and risk become more important factors. With where the Kings are at, if a player like that bombs it won't really hurt them that much, but if he develops it might change the course of this franchise considering Fox and Haliburton need a 3rd wheel running mate and the Kings have more talent/depth than other teams in the range they are in to fall back on in the interim. They also need what Barnes can bring on defense more than anyone so even if he becomes a defensive role player he'll be useful.
I’ve been consistent in my views of Kispert that he reminds me of Jason Kapono and should be a second round draft pick. Kapono was a second rounder and had a nice 7 or so year NBA career, so I’d like you to cite where I said Kispert doesn’t belong on an NBA floor. I’ll save you the time, it doesn’t exist.
As for your opinion, it’s just that—an opinion. As are others.
As for your opinion, it’s just that—an opinion. As are others.
yeah I would prefer to keep it on Jones.
I can say with certainty that getting good grades has little to nothing to do with BBIQ. Why can I be certain? Well because I graduated top of my class in MBA and I have near zero BBIQ. My children both have very high IQ’s ( one is an Olympic Water Polo player and one played college basketball) which they got from their mother. She will routinely see things in real time that I have to rewind to see. So I am living proof book IQ and basketball IQ is uncorrelated.
that being said I can’t say for certain if Jones has or doesn’t have BBIQ. I haven’t seen enough film of him to know how effectively he anticipates the moves of his opponents. Is he Wagner level anticipation, normal participation or does everyone in the building know X wants to go left but him? I appreciate your perception on the topic. I will say if he lacks skill and BBIQ, that is a type of player I think we should avoid.
I can say with certainty that getting good grades has little to nothing to do with BBIQ. Why can I be certain? Well because I graduated top of my class in MBA and I have near zero BBIQ. My children both have very high IQ’s ( one is an Olympic Water Polo player and one played college basketball) which they got from their mother. She will routinely see things in real time that I have to rewind to see. So I am living proof book IQ and basketball IQ is uncorrelated.
that being said I can’t say for certain if Jones has or doesn’t have BBIQ. I haven’t seen enough film of him to know how effectively he anticipates the moves of his opponents. Is he Wagner level anticipation, normal participation or does everyone in the building know X wants to go left but him? I appreciate your perception on the topic. I will say if he lacks skill and BBIQ, that is a type of player I think we should avoid.
One last thing. No one comes out of the womb with a basketball and complete knowledge of how to play the game. It's a learned process. But I do think that some people have a natural feel for the game along with good instincts. I think your born with those things, like being able to run fast. You either can, or you can't, and if you can't run fast, you never will. Of course it's easy to test running, but not so easy test those intangibles. Since you have a high IQ, it's my belief that if you had dedicated your life to basketball, the BBIQ would have come. The natural instincts, the hand/eye coordination, the foot speed and leaping ability I can't speak to. Having all the tools certainly helps.
Franz Wagner: SF/PF, 6'9" (its been reported that he's now 6'10"), 220 Lb's, Sophomore, 19 yr's old, Michigan.
31.8 mpg, - 12.5 ppg - 47.7% fgp - 34.3% 3pp - 83.5% ftp - 6.5 rpg - 3.0 apg - 1.3 steals - 1.0 Blk's.
Lets be clear, Wagner isn't great or elite at anything, but he's good at almost everything. He's one of those glue guys that plugs the holes where ever they are. He isn't an elite athlete, but he's a decent to good athlete. He's not slow mo Kyle Anderson, but like Anderson, he's highly skilled, and very crafty. He has very good handles and is very good at posting up. He's crafty around the basket where he can score with either hand in a variety of ways.. He's a very rebounder for a SF, and a very good passer who at times initiated the pick and roll for Michigan.
Like a lot of young European players he started playing in the under15/16/17 leagues, which prepare you for pro basketball. At 17 he played for Alba Berlin in the BBL, the highest level of basketball in Germany. He was awarded the BBL "Best German Young Player" award in 2019. In 2020 he was named to the Big Ten all Freshman team. This season he ranked 2nd in the Big Ten in defensive rating and 4th in offensive rating. His offensive rating was 121 and his defensive rating was 92. He has a plus/minus of plus 11.9. He also had a 17.4% assist rating.
While all those things are impressive, I doubt he'll ever be a star, at least not in the sense of a Booker or similar ilk, but I do think he's one of those players that will make the team better. He'll grab an important rebound, hit a shot that stops the bleeding, or make a steal when you need it. Wagner always seems to be in the right place at the right time. Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. While not being an elite athlete, he's particularly good at keeping his man in front of him. He's a very good on the ball defender, but he's an even better team defender with excellent anticipation and instincts. He's never late with help. I guess I could say that his BBIQ is excellent.
There are some area's he needs to improve in. His 3 pt shot still needs some work, but he made a nice jump from his Freshman year to his Sophomore year. So if he can jump up another couple of percentage points, he'll be fine. I would like to see a little more arc on his shot as well, which I think would help his percentages. One mock draft site has him with a wingspan of 6'8", and the reason I didn't post it was because after some investigation, I discovered that the measurement in question was taken when he first arrived at Michigan and measured out at slightly over 6'5" with the 6'8 wingspan. That summer he grew 3 inches, and I have to assume his wingspan grew as well. However, his wingspan hasn't been measured since that first measurement.
Like I said, I doubt Wagner will ever be a star player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't be almost as important. Having players on the team that always seem to make the right decision at the right time, make the right pass, or simply stop the ball when your up by one point with 5 seconds left in the game. Those intangibles don't show up in the stat line, but they can make the difference between winning and losing.
31.8 mpg, - 12.5 ppg - 47.7% fgp - 34.3% 3pp - 83.5% ftp - 6.5 rpg - 3.0 apg - 1.3 steals - 1.0 Blk's.
Lets be clear, Wagner isn't great or elite at anything, but he's good at almost everything. He's one of those glue guys that plugs the holes where ever they are. He isn't an elite athlete, but he's a decent to good athlete. He's not slow mo Kyle Anderson, but like Anderson, he's highly skilled, and very crafty. He has very good handles and is very good at posting up. He's crafty around the basket where he can score with either hand in a variety of ways.. He's a very rebounder for a SF, and a very good passer who at times initiated the pick and roll for Michigan.
Like a lot of young European players he started playing in the under15/16/17 leagues, which prepare you for pro basketball. At 17 he played for Alba Berlin in the BBL, the highest level of basketball in Germany. He was awarded the BBL "Best German Young Player" award in 2019. In 2020 he was named to the Big Ten all Freshman team. This season he ranked 2nd in the Big Ten in defensive rating and 4th in offensive rating. His offensive rating was 121 and his defensive rating was 92. He has a plus/minus of plus 11.9. He also had a 17.4% assist rating.
While all those things are impressive, I doubt he'll ever be a star, at least not in the sense of a Booker or similar ilk, but I do think he's one of those players that will make the team better. He'll grab an important rebound, hit a shot that stops the bleeding, or make a steal when you need it. Wagner always seems to be in the right place at the right time. Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. While not being an elite athlete, he's particularly good at keeping his man in front of him. He's a very good on the ball defender, but he's an even better team defender with excellent anticipation and instincts. He's never late with help. I guess I could say that his BBIQ is excellent.
There are some area's he needs to improve in. His 3 pt shot still needs some work, but he made a nice jump from his Freshman year to his Sophomore year. So if he can jump up another couple of percentage points, he'll be fine. I would like to see a little more arc on his shot as well, which I think would help his percentages. One mock draft site has him with a wingspan of 6'8", and the reason I didn't post it was because after some investigation, I discovered that the measurement in question was taken when he first arrived at Michigan and measured out at slightly over 6'5" with the 6'8 wingspan. That summer he grew 3 inches, and I have to assume his wingspan grew as well. However, his wingspan hasn't been measured since that first measurement.
Like I said, I doubt Wagner will ever be a star player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't be almost as important. Having players on the team that always seem to make the right decision at the right time, make the right pass, or simply stop the ball when your up by one point with 5 seconds left in the game. Those intangibles don't show up in the stat line, but they can make the difference between winning and losing.
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I saw some Kai Jones videos today and I was very impressed. Seemed to be able to knock down a jump shot (I'm sure it will improve with time) and I really liked his intensity and defensive instincts. Footwork looked pretty solid to me at times as well. I was completely sold
Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Davion Mitchell I'd be totally cool with any of these 3 at 9. I don't know about Johnson's character, but he has game for sure.
Kai Jones looked way better than Garuba to me
Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Davion Mitchell I'd be totally cool with any of these 3 at 9. I don't know about Johnson's character, but he has game for sure.
Kai Jones looked way better than Garuba to me