Players that I would target with the 9th pick:

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#61
Do you think he develops the shot too? That changes quite a bit if he can be 35%
A spot shot I think he can and he'll likely have to to live up to people thinking he should a top 9 pick. He looks to have decent touch. I'm not sure he'll be at the level Okur was at his peak when he took more 3's but he's got potential. The variance with him ranges from that to Frank the Tank part 2 IMO and if a team uses him like a star his production could be better.
 
#62
Do you think he develops the shot too? That changes quite a bit if he can be 35%
He shoots almost 82% at the free throw line, couple that with very nice looking form on his jump shot, and I believe he can eventually shoot the three ball.

One game I watched he had a beautiful Harden/Doncic-esque step back from three that hit nothing but net. I wouldn’t doubt that he could probably already do it to at least low 30s percentage wise. But he is just so efficient inside the paint that he would have to shoot 46% from three to match it.

Obviously, he won’t be that efficient in the NBA so he will have to develop that shot more but I don’t think he’s as far away as people think.

Here is a clip of his shooting:
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#64
Considering we are in a conference with Nurkic, Jokic and Valanciunas, we don’t really have a center that can hang with any of those guys.
Yes, but can Sengun? On highlights he looks to be a bit on the small side.

If we think Sengun is the best player at 9, then sure, we should take Sengun. But we shouldn't take a guy at #9 who we don't think is the best player at #9 just because we're missing a bruising defender in the post. I think ostensibly this year Whiteside was supposed to be that guy, but that didn't work out so well. Still, I'd rather try to find somebody in free agency than reach in the draft to find a "specialty usage" player, particularly if Walton doesn't appear to be very keen on using said style of player.
 
#65
Yes, but can Sengun? On highlights he looks to be a bit on the small side.

If we think Sengun is the best player at 9, then sure, we should take Sengun. But we shouldn't take a guy at #9 who we don't think is the best player at #9 just because we're missing a bruising defender in the post. I think ostensibly this year Whiteside was supposed to be that guy, but that didn't work out so well. Still, I'd rather try to find somebody in free agency than reach in the draft to find a "specialty usage" player, particularly if Walton doesn't appear to be very keen on using said style of player.
My understanding is he is very strong in the lower body. But to your main point I agree we take the best front court player available. My point was more we have gaps all along the frontline not just at wing.

while some have focused on defense I have been looking at IQ. Hi IQ players can play team defense well and to play in Waltons read and react offense you need hi offensive IQ. So to me the players with a higher IQ are further up more board. I thought Vlade’s biggest failure as a GM was believing IQ could be taught and not fully but mostly I believe it’s innate.
 
#66
Kind of a related question but would have to be available at 22 to trade Delon Wright and H Barnes for Kuzma and KCP?

if Zaire falls? Or Garuba falls? Do you do it?
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#67
Yes, but can Sengun? On highlights he looks to be a bit on the small side.

If we think Sengun is the best player at 9, then sure, we should take Sengun. But we shouldn't take a guy at #9 who we don't think is the best player at #9 just because we're missing a bruising defender in the post. I think ostensibly this year Whiteside was supposed to be that guy, but that didn't work out so well. Still, I'd rather try to find somebody in free agency than reach in the draft to find a "specialty usage" player, particularly if Walton doesn't appear to be very keen on using said style of player.
He certainly appears to lack the length you would want at center if those are the measuring sticks. He might be more of a 4/5 type in the end. I've seen Kevin Love comps in that regard.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#68
My understanding is he is very strong in the lower body. But to your main point I agree we take the best front court player available. My point was more we have gaps all along the frontline not just at wing.

while some have focused on defense I have been looking at IQ. Hi IQ players can play team defense well and to play in Waltons read and react offense you need hi offensive IQ. So to me the players with a higher IQ are further up more board. I thought Vlade’s biggest failure as a GM was believing IQ could be taught and not fully but mostly I believe it’s innate.
And that right there better not be anything close to what Monte is focusing on. Everything should based around the needs of Fox and Haliburton at this point.
 
#70
And that right there better not be anything close to what Monte is focusing on. Everything should based around the needs of Fox and Haliburton at this point.
If you are going to build around Haliburton then you also need hi IQ players. Hi IQ players play better when paired with other Hi IQ players. It’s one reason, among many, why the Spurs are so good.

Fox is tougher to build around because his game is mostly about him getting to the basket and finishing. So from that you need people who can spread the floor.
 
#71
He certainly appears to lack the length you would want at center if those are the measuring sticks. He might be more of a 4/5 type in the end. I've seen Kevin Love comps in that regard.
appears based on what?

You are talking about an 18 year old kid. Men don’t develop fully muscularly until they are 25. How he ultimately measures will be an important factor in his evaluation but I don’t think anyone knows for sure his height or length currently.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#72
appears based on what?

You are talking about an 18 year old kid. Men don’t develop fully muscularly until they are 25. How he ultimately measures will be an important factor in his evaluation but I don’t think anyone knows for sure his height or length currently.
The lower numbers we've heard. And that development thing is why it's scary. I don't trust this organization with any more bigs like that and I'm sure his agent would be like hell no as well, lol.
 
#73
The lower numbers we've heard. And that development thing is why it's scary. I don't trust this organization with any more bigs like that and I'm sure his agent would be like hell no as well, lol.
I’ve heard 6’10 barefoot from Europeans who follow the Turkish league. It will all come out eventually but no point in having a hard opinion until we know the data.

the development is biological development especially with larger kids who still had baby fat on them. You just can’t accurately judge how big and strong they will be looking at pictures
 
#74
I’ve heard 6’10 barefoot from Europeans who follow the Turkish league. It will all come out eventually but no point in having a hard opinion until we know the data.

the development is biological development especially with larger kids who still had baby fat on them. You just can’t accurately judge how big and strong they will be looking at pictures
I‘ve heard/read the same. In the Turkish league, unless you’re an American player, you’re typically measured barefoot. There are pictures of him standing next to players like Okur where he is at least as tall as him given the angle and postures of the players. He’s probably borderline 6’11” at worst. But as you said, it will all come out soon.

Sengun also has tree trunks for legs. As the kids would say, that boy is thicc. It’s why he doesn’t get bullied as much in the paint because he has such a big base.

Heck, if Bricklayer we’re still around he would probably like Sengun just based off the kids dog like mentality, similar to Cousins. He will get in the paint and fight and push and scrap. There is a reason the kid averaged the most offensive rebounds, and shot the most free throws at 18 years old in a league of grown men.
 
#75
i kinda like sengun, but IMHO i think we suck at players development, especially bigs... would you like to use 9th pick on a kid who should stay one more season in europe, or spend some time in G league?

m̶o̶n̶t̶e̶, pardon, vivek will probably chase play in again, so i don't see space for developing young raw draftees. we need someone who can produce from day 1.
that's why i'm in a wagner's bandwagon
 
#76
I think Herb Jones is a better value pick than Moody. Jones and Moody are close physically with Moody having the higher offensive upside while Jones has the higher defensive upside. Biggest difference between the two is a jump shot--where Moody projects as being an average shooter while Jones is a an average jump shot away from being a pick in the 20s. Think Donsumu is better.

Of the players on your list, I have Mitchell #2, ahead of Moody, after Johnson. Kispert and Wagner wouldn't be in the top ten for players at 9 for me (Donsumu and Giddey rating ahead of them). Kispert is slow footed and wasn't able to get his shot off against average level NBA athletes during the final four. And UCLA attacked Kispert all game--Jacquez/Juzang taking him off the dribble whenever he was guarding them on the perimeter. Both are average, at best, NBA wings. Wagner just didn't impress during the games that I watched--I see a lot of Pete Chilcut rather than Keith Van Horn in his game. The scouting reports of him being a multi-faceted offensive and defensive player are head scratchers for me. Maybe I need to watch more film of him.
Speaking of Jones, here’s a blurb from Vecenie’s latest piece on the athletic:

“Herb Jones, Alabama (No. 34; was No. 58): Jones is another guy whom NBA teams I’ve spoken with just seem to be higher on than where many outside evaluators have him. And having done a deeper dive on him, it’s easy to see why. Jones was one of the five best defenders in college basketball this past season on the wing, a smart, disruptive player on that end who is switchable. On top of that, he’s a really smart passer and decision-maker with good feel for the game. And he’s regarded across the board as an elite character kid. The only worry here is the jumper. And frankly, the jumper is worrying enough — given that skill’s importance to role players in today’s NBA — to where I can’t get him in the first round despite the fact that I think he’ll fill every other part of being a role player in the NBA well. But I like Jones a lot and would happily bet on him at the top of the second round.”
 
#78
i kinda like sengun, but IMHO i think we suck at players development, especially bigs... would you like to use 9th pick on a kid who should stay one more season in europe, or spend some time in G league?

m̶o̶n̶t̶e̶, pardon, vivek will probably chase play in again, so i don't see space for developing young raw draftees. we need someone who can produce from day 1.
that's why i'm in a wagner's bandwagon
the Turkish league is at least as good as the NCAA if not better. If you are looking for contribute right away why wouldn’t you take an 18 year old kid just named Turkish league MVP because he dominated grown men.
 
#79
I have narrowed it down to 10 players that could possibly be our ninth pick. I realize that's quite a few considering that normally a pick in the lottery would be down to maybe two or three players. But this is an unusual draft in that the talent runs deep into the first rd. If you were to take a look at all the mock drafts out there you'll see a player going at number 9 or 10 on one mock, and the same player going at 18 or 19 in another one. I've seen Ayo Dosunmu in the mid to late teens, and I saw one mock that had him at 30. I think he's talented enough to be a lottery pick, but there are only 14 of them.

Anyway, my ten choices are as follows, and I have them in the order I like them:

1. Moses Moody
2. Jalen Johnson
3. Corey Kispert
4. Kai Jones
5. Franz Wagner
6. Usman Garuba
7. Isaiah Jackson
8. Davion Mitchell
9. Jaden Springer
10. Tre Mann

Obviously if Scottie Barnes or Keon Johnson should slide down to us, they would have to be considered. But I think both will be gone by then, and it's possible that my number one pick, Moody will be gone as well, but I'm hopeful he won't. So without further ado:

Moses Moody: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's, 7'0" Wingspan, Freshman, 18.6 years old, Arkansas.
32.8 mpg - 17.0 ppg - 43.3% fgp - 37.1% 3pp - 82.8% ftp - 5.8 rpg - 1.8 apg - 1.1 stl's

Moody is one of my favorite players in the draft, and he was fun to watch. He's an excellent athlete who is projected by most scouts as a 3 and D player. Moody is the type of player that fits in on just about every team, but is a perfect fit on the Kings. Number one, he defends. He projects to be a lock down defender. He has great length which allows him to play and defend three positions. He has excellent BBIQ. He seldom forces things and takes what's there. Sometimes at the end of the game you'll look at the box score and he'll have 25 pt's, and you can't remember him scoring that many times.

He's a good passer and at times was the primary ball handler for the Vol's. He was in fact, the primary everything for his team. He's a good shooter and has an effortless looking jump shot. While 37.1% is very respectable, for a 20 game period from Dec 3rd to Feb 13th, he shot right at 40%. Moody is a player that I think will be a better offensive player in the NBA than he was in college. He was the primary scorer at Arkansas, and if someone else had been able to score, Moody would have probably averaged 7 assists a game. Toward the last part of the season, and in the tournament, every team he played had their defense set to stop him from scoring. As a result some of his percentages took a dive.

Moody won't have that problem in the NBA, or on a team like the Kings, where he might be the 3rd or 4th option. He won't see many doubles like he did at Arkansas. Also, they have that testy defensive 3 second rule in the lane, and Moody loves to attack the basket. He also has a deadly mid-range game with pullup step backs, and floaters. As you note by his almost 6 boards a game, he's an excellent rebounder. Moody plays with an intensity you'll love. He probably needs to add some muscle, and tweak his ball handling a tad, but overall, he's ready to step on an NBA floor and contribute. He's a tough kid, and a workaholic. To me, he's a can't miss prospect, and hey, at still 18 years of age, he might grow another inch or two.

Garuba and Jackson could well be there when the Lakers pick at 22.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#80
i kinda like sengun, but IMHO i think we suck at players development, especially bigs... would you like to use 9th pick on a kid who should stay one more season in europe, or spend some time in G league?

m̶o̶n̶t̶e̶, pardon, vivek will probably chase play in again, so i don't see space for developing young raw draftees. we need someone who can produce from day 1.
that's why i'm in a wagner's bandwagon
Wagner would crack Waltons rotation from day 1 as well. He'd be an ultimate safe pick. He'd have his new Kuzma with much better defense but less iso ability.
 
#81
the Turkish league is at least as good as the NCAA if not better. If you are looking for contribute right away why wouldn’t you take an 18 year old kid just named Turkish league MVP because he dominated grown men.
I agree. If you want someone that can contribute right away then why dismiss the one guy that has played in a professional league and won MVP at 18 years old.

Sure the Turkish league is probably only the 3rd or 4th best league in Europe, but it's still a professional league full of former NCAA stars, such as the NCAA MVP that sits on Sengun's team bench.

Is he perfect? No. None of these players are. Is he short for the center position? I don't think so, he will probably measure out to be 6'10.5" or 6'11". About average to slightly above average height for a center. His wingspan is reported to be 7'0"-7'1". Which is slightly below average for a center. It's all guesstimations from me, but we will soon find out whether it is true or not.

Is he slow foot? He might not be the most agile center, but he's no worse in that department than Noah, Gasol, Asik, Sabonis, or Jefferson type defender. He may never be as good as them defensively in the NBA, thats a big bar, but he's not a slouch in his league on that end.

Will he develop a 3? That's on him and how hard he works at it. He's an 82% freethrow shooter, the barometer that people use to guage if someone will be a good shooter. He also has good form on his shot; albeit, a slow release. He may already have an outside shot in his arsenal but just didn't use it much because he had a 70% true shooting percentage. I believe he would of had to shoot at 46% from the three to be as efficient as he was with twos.

Obviously I like the kid, considering i had no idea who he was two weeks ago. He has since jumped up to the top of my list after spending a lot of time watching his games and reading about him.

Here is an interesting set of stats I came across posted on another board:

Screenshot_20210605-145844_Chrome~2.jpg
 
#82
I see Isaiah Jackson has climbed into cbs sports top 10, they even have him going 8 to Orlando.
Sounds good to me. I’m not sure if Jackson belongs that high but more reason to believe someone like Moody will be available when we pick.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#83
I see Isaiah Jackson has climbed into cbs sports top 10, they even have him going 8 to Orlando.
Sounds good to me. I’m not sure if Jackson belongs that high but more reason to believe someone like Moody will be available when we pick.
Goodness I hope so, that would mean somebody good could drop again this year and yes, someone that actually could provide some defense on the wing.
 
#84
I'm impatiently waiting for bajaden's take on Usman Garuba. He seems to be all over the place on the mocks but I've moved him all the way up to 6th overall on my board right now. He's got moments where he makes mistakes like every prospect but I'm struggling to see anything he doesn't do well. Physically he looks like he belongs in the NBA already and he's obviously been very well coached. He's all over the place on defense with surprisingly nimble feet and hands on the perimeter and he plays taller in the post than his listed 6'8" height because of his long arms and quick leaping ability. And on offense he can shoot, he's a pretty good passer from the high and low post, he's got some face-up driving ability, and he should help with our rebounding woes.

After the top 4 of Cade, Green, Mobley, and Suggs I've got Jalen Johnson, Usman Garuba, Keon Johnson and Davion Mitchell all ranked fairly equally as the next 4 because of their potential as two-way players. And there's a very good chance one of those players will still be available at 9 so I could probably just stop there but rounding out my current top 10 are Kuminga and Moody who would both be excellent fits for us but some questionable decision-making and finishing ability leads me to believe they're both higher risk than the 8 players I ranked above them.
 
#85
Unless one of the expected top 5 drops, it's Sengun, Jalen Johnson or Giddey for me.

Garuba is interesting but he's too raw for my liking considering the other options on the table. He's not a very good shooter and doesn't block shots which is worrisome for a player of his type. Admittedly he is talented and I don't dislike him as a prospect but there's no way I'd take him over Sengun who looks like a serious prospect. I expect him to rise.
 
#86
I’ve been sleeping on Davion Mitchell because I like our backcourt. I’m starting to think that’s a mistake. If we did draft him - it would allow McNair to package Hield and D Wright in a trade, which could bring back something interesting.
 
#87
Unless one of the expected top 5 drops, it's Sengun, Jalen Johnson or Giddey for me.

Garuba is interesting but he's too raw for my liking considering the other options on the table. He's not a very good shooter and doesn't block shots which is worrisome for a player of his type. Admittedly he is talented and I don't dislike him as a prospect but there's no way I'd take him over Sengun who looks like a serious prospect. I expect him to rise.
I love Garuba as a prospect but I agree I’d only target him on a trade down scenario or if we could grab another 1st rounder somehow. Just does not scream top 10 talent for me
 
#88
I’ve been sleeping on Davion Mitchell because I like our backcourt. I’m starting to think that’s a mistake. If we did draft him - it would allow McNair to package Hield and D Wright in a trade, which could bring back something interesting.
BPA whenever we choose and regardless of position. Mitchell is a hybrid Pat Bev and Bobby J. I’d take that any day.
 
#89
Unless one of the expected top 5 drops, it's Sengun, Jalen Johnson or Giddey for me.

Garuba is interesting but he's too raw for my liking considering the other options on the table. He's not a very good shooter and doesn't block shots which is worrisome for a player of his type. Admittedly he is talented and I don't dislike him as a prospect but there's no way I'd take him over Sengun who looks like a serious prospect. I expect him to rise.
Doesn't block shots? Are you sure we're talking about the same guy? He averaged 1.5 blocks per 36 as a teenager in the Euroleague this season. Admittedly the numbers don't jump off the page but they never do for the Euroleague players. During draft season people tend to fawn over the super athletes who abandon their positioning to fly in for weakside blocks which look great on highlight reels but often don't translate at the next level (Kai Jones comes to mind). Garuba's blocks tend to come when he's one-on-one against the offensive player because he gets off the floor quicker than most of his opponents. And that's in a professional league where he's usually the youngest player on the floor.

Here's a small sample of what he looked like this past season:

For a guy his age it's especially impressive to me how much he knows his role and makes the smart play rather than the flashy play. That's what I meant when I said he was well-coached. A lot of the US born players, unfortunately, come into the league thinking it's going to be AAU and struggle to understand team basketball. Garuba needs to improve in a lot of skill areas for sure but his decision-making already looks very good to me and that's where I see young players struggle the most when they come into the league. He doesn't look like a late first round talent to me, I think he's clearly top 10 and I wouldn't risk trying to trade down and get him if we're on the clock and he's the best talent available.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#90
I'm impatiently waiting for bajaden's take on Usman Garuba. He seems to be all over the place on the mocks but I've moved him all the way up to 6th overall on my board right now. He's got moments where he makes mistakes like every prospect but I'm struggling to see anything he doesn't do well. Physically he looks like he belongs in the NBA already and he's obviously been very well coached. He's all over the place on defense with surprisingly nimble feet and hands on the perimeter and he plays taller in the post than his listed 6'8" height because of his long arms and quick leaping ability. And on offense he can shoot, he's a pretty good passer from the high and low post, he's got some face-up driving ability, and he should help with our rebounding woes.

After the top 4 of Cade, Green, Mobley, and Suggs I've got Jalen Johnson, Usman Garuba, Keon Johnson and Davion Mitchell all ranked fairly equally as the next 4 because of their potential as two-way players. And there's a very good chance one of those players will still be available at 9 so I could probably just stop there but rounding out my current top 10 are Kuminga and Moody who would both be excellent fits for us but some questionable decision-making and finishing ability leads me to believe they're both higher risk than the 8 players I ranked above them.
Garuba could be Paul Milsap without the offensive polish/skills maybe? Brandon Bass. He's got potential but I hope a team does think he's top 8 but I doubt it.

Keon Johnson is a tough call. I've seen him at the Kings pick on some mocks and I really don't think he's big enough to play SF. Green might be in time, he's got a decent frame to build on but Keon is a straight up SG. That would be a tough deal for him to survive the Sac model of if it don't fit, quit. Same with Mitchell.