Peja Stojakovic: King For Life?

[piksi]

Given this description, I would not pay Peja a penny. All he does is use other players to get stats without contributing anything. Regardless of whether he is there or not its the same thing, except when he is not there the other players might not be annoyed at Peja for using their effort for personal gain! If this assesment is correct he should go unsigned when his contract expires.

We also have to add that his all star nominations were made by people who have no basketball knowledge. Also him being a 2nd team all NBA 2 years ago was caused by alians but since we beat them in "war of the worlds" they might actually revoke it any day

and since nobody would ever take a player like that - he might as well retire

 

[Warhawk]

Given this description, I would not pay Peja a penny. All he does is use other players to get stats without contributing anything. Regardless of whether he is there or not its the same thing, except when he is not there the other players might not be annoyed at Peja for using their effort for personal gain! If this assesment is correct he should go unsigned when his contract expires.

Oh, come on - his man defense is underrated (ask Dirk) and when the team is running smoothly (like the first half of the season 2 years ago) he is an all-star. He does need improvement in some areas, especially rebounding and finishing near the basket, but what player couldn't improve? He was efficient, scoring about 1,300 points on about 1,000 shots and is an excellent free-throw shooter. His offense is the biggest contribution to the team, but at least his shooting from long range (>40%) keeps his men honest on D so they can't help out down low. He has a couple assists per game and at least 1 steal. He needs to learn to play bigger and be more aggressive. Not worth a max deal, IMHO, but not nearly as bad a teammate as you describe.

 

[Bricklayer]

Given this description, I would not pay Peja a penny. All he does is use other players to get stats without contributing anything. Regardless of whether he is there or not its the same thing, except when he is not there the other players might not be annoyed at Peja for using their effort for personal gain! If this assesment is correct he should go unsigned when his contract expires.

If I was a player, any player on the Kings, I wouldn't lose a moment of sleep if I heard Peja was traded (at least until I knew who he was traded for). Indeed might be nice to not have to worry about whether he's going to show up when we go to war or not. There is not a single guy on the whole roster who's numbers will obviously go down if that happened. Might shave an assist or so off of Brad's numbers. But that's about it.

But now if I'm the Kings, the franchise not the players, you still have to get it right. There were a very vocal minority of "fans" of the Kings agitating for years for Chris Webber to be dumped for salary cap space -- traded away for free. They were complete idiots. The same would be true of anyone who would think losing Peja Stojakovic while getting nothing in return would benefit the Kings. He does very little to help/improve his teammates, not on this team of jumpshooters (he would have some value to teammates on a team with no shooters and many post players). But for the Kings as a franchise, he is still 20ppg. If you trade him, you still need somebody back who can make a similar overall contribution. The rest of the players may play just as well without Peja, but that still leaves you 20ppg short of where you were. And regardless of who the player is who is going to score those 20 missing points (or at least make a similar contribution), he will need to be paid a hefty sum.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, come on - his man defense is underrated (ask Dirk) and when the team is running smoothly (like the first half of the season 2 years ago) he is an all-star. He does need improvement in some areas, especially rebounding and finishing near the basket, but what player couldn't improve? He was efficient, scoring about 1,300 points on about 1,000 shots and is an excellent free-throw shooter. His offense is the biggest contribution to the team, but at least his shooting from long range (>40%) keeps his men honest on D so they can't help out down low. He has a couple assists per game and at least 1 steal. He needs to learn to play bigger and be more aggressive. Not worth a max deal, IMHO, but not nearly as bad a teammate as you describe.

Warhawk, this is a Serbian poster attempting to be sarcastic.

 

[Bricklayer]

We also have to add that his all star nominations were made by people who have no basketball knowledge. Also him being a 2nd team all NBA 2 years ago was caused by alians but since we beat them in "war of the worlds" they might actually revoke it any day

and since nobody would ever take a player like that - he might as well retire

As an aside Piksi, Peja has earned one All-Star spot regardless of the team (03-04). Otherwise he's just been Rashard Lewis of this year -- added to the end of the bench because he plays for a good team. Put him on the Clippers, he's like Maggette -- good player, no All-Star appearances (scratch that, likely one in 03-04).

He may in fact have been second team all-NBA two years ago. Maybe. Maybe third team more realistically. But those accolades were clearly due to the incredible down year everyone not named Peja had. Terrible year for the league's elite. Finished 2nd in scoring -- make that this past season and Peja is 9th/10th in the league in scoring and not even remotely in the MVP talk. In fact several teams would have TWO guys ranked higher than him.

 

[burekijogurt]

Warhawk, this is a Serbian poster attempting to be sarcastic.

It was less sarcasm and more 'well that is kind of ridiculous since this is what that means'. I guess taking away the 'Given this description' and the exclamation point at the end of the second sentence would give it a more sarcastic tone. But yeah, that's not what I actually think.

Piksi, thanks for giving away the end. You ruined the movie for me.

 

[Warhawk]

Sorry - I'm not the biggest Peja defender (as he does need to improve many areas of his game), but I didn't catch the sarcasm there.... ooops.

I blame it on an early start after the 4th of July weekend.

 

[piksi]

Piksi, thanks for giving away the end. You ruined the movie for me.

Sorry but I did not think that it requires a rocket scientist to figure out that we would win.

The movie is way overated BTW

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Sorry but I did not think that it requires a rocket scientist to figure out that we would win.

The movie is way overated BTW

Not to hijack the thread, but the movie is a remake of a classic. And the story is a hundred years old. You can't spoil Shakespeare by proclaiming they all die in the end

 

[burekijogurt]

Not to hijack the thread, but the movie is a remake of a classic. And the story is a hundred years old. You can't spoil Shakespeare by proclaiming they all die in the end

What??? Romeo and Juliet die?? well thanks a lot.

 

[hrdboild]

And he works harder at getting open because that's what works best for him, not because he has to. Peja would do well to take a page out of his scrapbook and learn from it. Because Peja has to work to get open looks, or else he won't have many scoring opportunities. Those pump fakes and jab steps and pick and pops work against less than adequate defenders, or defenders who are already out of position.

Any argument for Peja being able to create his own shot went out the window the night I saw Brevin Knight totally frustrate any and every effort Peja made to get some offense going. Brevin F. Knight, the 5'10" point guard out of Stanford.

But he does work hard to get open. I could even see him getting visably frustrated at times during the latter part of the season when he's running all over the court shaking his man and nobody passes him the ball when he gets open. When it gets to the fourth quarter he stops working as hard to get open and can you blame him? If nobody is getting you the ball when you get there, than what's the point? If we're handing Peja the ball and asking him to create something for us, then our offense is totally broken. And at times this past season it was. It was because you had Mike and Peja and a bunch of new guys who didn't know the offense. You can't play a motion offense when only two guys are playing on the same page, it just doesn't work. The reason Peja played better with Doug and Vlade on the team is that they were pass first players that would find him when he got open. With Mobley and Thomas out there, everybody was looking to create and you can't see the open man when you're busy creating your own shot. We need less of that type of play, not more of it. Kobe can score 40 points a game, and does on occasion, and the Lakers still lose. One player, no matter how good, is not going to beat a team on his own and if he's using up the shot clock making his own shot, that means a lot less touches for everyone else.

And really, I don't think the one game you watched is evidence of Peja not being able to get his own shot any more than one game where Peja scores 35 points on 15 shots is evidence that he's the best scorer in the league. Everyone has off days. And if you've ever tried to play injured, you'd know how much harder it is to get in a rhythm, especially if your primary weapon is a jumpshot.

 

[Bricklayer]

But he does work hard to get open. I could even see him getting visably frustrated at times during the latter part of the season when he's running all over the court shaking his man and nobody passes him the ball when he gets open. When it gets to the fourth quarter he stops working as hard to get open and can you blame him? If nobody is getting you the ball when you get there, than what's the point? If we're handing Peja the ball and asking him to create something for us, then our offense is totally broken. And at times this past season it was. It was because you had Mike and Peja and a bunch of new guys who didn't know the offense. You can't play a motion offense when only two guys are playing on the same page, it just doesn't work. The reason Peja played better with Doug and Vlade on the team is that they were pass first players that would find him when he got open. With Mobley and Thomas out there, everybody was looking to create and you can't see the open man when you're busy creating your own shot. We need less of that type of play, not more of it. Kobe can score 40 points a game, and does on occasion, and the Lakers still lose. One player, no matter how good, is not going to beat a team on his own and if he's using up the shot clock making his own shot, that means a lot less touches for everyone else.

And really, I don't think the one game you watched is evidence of Peja not being able to get his own shot any more than one game where Peja scores 35 points on 15 shots is evidence that he's the best scorer in the league. Everyone has off days. And if you've ever tried to play injured, you'd know how much harder it is to get in a rhythm, especially if your primary weapon is a jumpshot.

1) I hope you're not seriously trying to argue Peja can create his won shot. That is one of the glaring weaknesses of his game, always has been. Very likely always will be at this point.

2) The off the ball movement is a different animal, but it is what he, Reggie, Rip and other players of their ilk do to make up for the fact that their ball skills are inferior. I have mentioned before that the difference between Peja Stojakovic and Fred Hoiberg is principally that off the ball movement. Both men have nice shots. Neither man can create with the ball (actually Fred is better than Peja at that), but the off the ball movement takes a guy with similar skills to a roleplayer and allows him to up the number of shots he gets off to the point he becomes a 20ppg scorer. Nonetheless, its not creating your own shot if people are running around setting picks, brushing people off, running plays etc. for you and not passing you the ball until/unless you finally pop open.

3) Sacramento fans can be completely delusional, as for instance when they with a straight face argue that what their team needs less of is people able to create their own shot. I mean, goodness. This isn't junior high school girls' bball. Nor is it the 1950's. Maybe we can start throwing in a little weave here and there to celebrate our "back to fundamentals" style of ball where nobody ever takes a shot out of place, and everyone completely lacks NBA level skills with the basketball in his hands.

 

[hrdboild]

My observation was not that creating your own shot isn't a valuable skill. My observation is that five players tryng to create something individually every time down the floor instead of playing like a team are going to lose when they face legitimate competition who can defend them man-to-man. We don't need less people who can create their own shot. If everyone has that skill, great. Fantastic. That's a wonderful Plan B. But if your Plan A is to let one player dribble and juke and drive or pull up for a shot, than your offense isn't any good. We lost a lot of games last year because we couldn't play as a team. It's why we lost to Seattle in the playoffs too.

Peja has a legitimate skill. It's stupid to ask him to create his own shot. If the defense is covering your other options and there's no time left on the clock, that's when you need to create something. And we have suffered at times at the end of close games because the defense tightens up and we aren't able to create something. I acknowledge that. But you look at a team like Phoenix, and nobody on that team is creating their own shot and yet they are the highest scoring team in the league. If you can blow everybody out, then you don't need to fall back on individual "junkyard" basketball to win games. You don't need one guy trying to do it all. Save that for the one-on-one matches in the park.

 

[AleksandarN]

I have followed this thread somewhat, but not that closely.

All I have to say about Peja is:
- talent is there but he doesn't use it all the time
- he needs to stop being streaky and as VF21 said .. shut up and play
- if he can put an effort, like that last game agains Sonics in the playoffs, on a consistant basis he deservers more money (nobody in my opinion deserves a max contract on current Kings roster).
- performance he put in that last game had to come somewhere. it showed that he has it inhim, but he needs to use it or else he is as expandable as the next guy with a pretty face and a nice shot

I'd love for Peja to be King for life, but it is up to him to give 100% every night and earn the paycheck.

I aggree 100% good post

 

[chelle]

If he is going to be a King for life, we are going to have to pay him about 80 million. If Allen got 85 for 5 years, Peja will ask for a comparable amount. If we do not give it to him, I am sure there are other teams that will. It is up to Petrie to decide if he is worth it ot not. I hope he decides this summer. I do not want to speculate for the entire season.

 

[Superman]

But he does work hard to get open. I could even see him getting visably frustrated at times during the latter part of the season when he's running all over the court shaking his man and nobody passes him the ball when he gets open. When it gets to the fourth quarter he stops working as hard to get open and can you blame him? If nobody is getting you the ball when you get there, than what's the point? If we're handing Peja the ball and asking him to create something for us, then our offense is totally broken. And at times this past season it was. It was because you had Mike and Peja and a bunch of new guys who didn't know the offense. You can't play a motion offense when only two guys are playing on the same page, it just doesn't work. The reason Peja played better with Doug and Vlade on the team is that they were pass first players that would find him when he got open. With Mobley and Thomas out there, everybody was looking to create and you can't see the open man when you're busy creating your own shot. We need less of that type of play, not more of it. Kobe can score 40 points a game, and does on occasion, and the Lakers still lose. One player, no matter how good, is not going to beat a team on his own and if he's using up the shot clock making his own shot, that means a lot less touches for everyone else.

You make good points, but a good player can look for his own shot and still see the open man. It's what the drive-and-kick offense that players like Chauncey Billups and Gary Payton and Jason Kidd and so many other good point guards in the history of the NBA use is predicated on. I can look to make my own shot and still be able to get the ball to a man if he comes open. It's a basic part of any good slasher's game. One player can't beat a team by himself, and that's why it's always been a big part of our offense that everyone can shoot. But having a player that can create his own shot while still seeing the floor is what we have always been missing. The Lakers won championships because of what Kobe Bryant brought to the table, not in spite of it.

And really, I don't think the one game you watched is evidence of Peja not being able to get his own shot any more than one game where Peja scores 35 points on 15 shots is evidence that he's the best scorer in the league. Everyone has off days. And if you've ever tried to play injured, you'd know how much harder it is to get in a rhythm, especially if your primary weapon is a jumpshot.

Peja scores 35 on 15 shots because 1) his teammates look for him and find him, and he hits the shots he gets off of the team's offense, 2) he gets to the free throw line, and 3) he shoots a lot of three pointers. It has less to do with Peja's ability to score than it does with his team's ability to put him in good situations.

I wouldn't be stating as fact that a smaller, quicker defender can take Peja out of his game if I had just seen it happen once. It's a consistent thing. And it's the reason that he needs to develop some kind of post game that allows him to take advantage of that kind of matchup. Brevin Knight, and even Trenton Hassell and Bruce Bowen, need to be posted up when they are giving up as much height as they do against Peja.

And though it is hard to play injured, it's easier to shoot an open jumper than it is to take the ball hard to the rim. It becomes impossible to get into a rhythm when your only weapon is a jumpshot. And that's the problem. Peja's expertise is shooting, not creating. And that's fine. You just don't break the bank on a shooter.

 

[hrdboild]

I pretty much agree with your points Superman. Basically I was saying that Peja is a shooter, always has been and always will be. Most of the comments about Peja not being able to create his own shot or not being tough enough would apply to any shooting specialist. He's not expected to be a do-everything player, he has a role to fill and when you talk about three point shooters, he's counted as one of the best. We don't critisize Shaq because he can't take the ball up the floor or shoot an open 20-footer. Yeah it'd be great if he could do those things, but they aren't part of his job on the basketball floor so it's just understood that he's a center. That's his role. And it should be the same with a shooting specialist.

The flip side of that is that it's prefectly reasonable to question whether a shooting specialist deserves a max contract given that in NBA competition, a talented big man is going to do a lot more for you than a guy who hangs out around the perimeter and knocks down threes. That's not true of every basketball competition, but it's true of the NBA. If you can only afford one or two max players, you'd be better off making them of the dominant big man type. I agree that breaking the bank for a shooter isn't a wise business move. I've never had any problem with that argument. I just thought some of these comments about Peja weren't acknowledging that, as a shooter, he has a specific role to play on the floor and that determines the way he plays the game. All shooters get less rebounds because they're always on the perimeter. All shooters need their teammates to set them up. You can argue against having that kind of player on your team of course, or at least having them be a primary option, but those aren't the arguments I've been hearing from some people. What I've been hearing is "Peja sucks at this" and "Peja can't do this."

If he can add those post moves he's talked about, then he becomes more of a multi-faceted threat. And at that point maybe you start thinking about a max contract, but that's in the speculative future right now. At this point in time, a max contract would be a poor decision I think.

 

[VF21]

If he can add those post moves he's talked about, then he becomes more of a multi-faceted threat. And at that point maybe you start thinking about a max contract, but that's in the speculative future right now. At this point in time, a max contract would be a poor decision I think.

To me, you have to consider not if he CAN add those post moves but if he WILL add those moves, or anything else, to his repertoire.

 

[Superman]

I pretty much agree with your points Superman. Basically I was saying that Peja is a shooter, always has been and always will be. Most of the comments about Peja not being able to create his own shot or not being tough enough would apply to any shooting specialist. He's not expected to be a do-everything player, he has a role to fill and when you talk about three point shooters, he's counted as one of the best. We don't critisize Shaq because he can't take the ball up the floor or shoot an open 20-footer. Yeah it'd be great if he could do those things, but they aren't part of his job on the basketball floor so it's just understood that he's a center. That's his role. And it should be the same with a shooting specialist.

The flip side of that is that it's prefectly reasonable to question whether a shooting specialist deserves a max contract given that in NBA competition, a talented big man is going to do a lot more for you than a guy who hangs out around the perimeter and knocks down threes. That's not true of every basketball competition, but it's true of the NBA. If you can only afford one or two max players, you'd be better off making them of the dominant big man type. I agree that breaking the bank for a shooter isn't a wise business move. I've never had any problem with that argument. I just thought some of these comments about Peja weren't acknowledging that, as a shooter, he has a specific role to play on the floor and that determines the way he plays the game. All shooters get less rebounds because they're always on the perimeter. All shooters need their teammates to set them up. You can argue against having that kind of player on your team of course, or at least having them be a primary option, but those aren't the arguments I've been hearing from some people. What I've been hearing is "Peja sucks at this" and "Peja can't do this."

If he can add those post moves he's talked about, then he becomes more of a multi-faceted threat. And at that point maybe you start thinking about a max contract, but that's in the speculative future right now. At this point in time, a max contract would be a poor decision I think.

Steve Kerr was a shooting specialist because that's all that he was capable of. And I can name a dozen others that fit that description. And none of them even made as much as Peja does now. If Peja's just a shooting specialist, then he's being overpaid instead of underpaid, as the common opinion is.

As a 6'10" player with one of the best shooting touches in the world, a lot of doors are open for Peja as a player, doors that weren't open for the type of player I just described. Post game, the ability to affect the game defensively and with solid rebounding (I don't need him to be a Shawn Marion rebounding monster, just to put a little effort forth and be consistent with 7 or 8 a game), and the opportunity to be a leader come to mind immediately. He's not going to be a Kobe-like slasher or a Tim-like post threat or a Wallace-like defender. But he can improve greatly.

You see, there's a difference between why Peja doesn't deserve the max and why I'm beginning to lose respect for him. He doesn't deserve the max because he's not the type of player that you build a team around. I'm getting fed up with him because he doesn't seem to care about getting better as a player, and it's getting too late for him to do so.

Do you know what kind of player Mike Bibby would be if he were 6'10"? A player like Dirk Nowitzki. Do you know what kind of legend Chris Mullin would have been if he were 6'10"? Peja isn't living up to his potential, and it's because he chooses not to improve on the areas of his game that need to improve in order for him to be a top-tier player in the NBA. That's what's frustrating. He has the tools to be an all-time great, and doesn't take advantage of them.

It's why people get frustrated with Shaq's free throw shooting, and not with his poor ball-handling, why people blast Chris Webber for his failure to work the post, and not his failure to be a 40% three point shooter. I would like to see Peja play to his strengths - all of them, not just his jumpshot - and that would not only make him a much better player, but would make us a better team.

 

[LA King Fan II]

I have but one enormous complaint with Peja. He watches loose balls. It is an instinct. It is a natural competitiveness that Rodmans, Horry's Bryant's Jordan's Bird's, etc., have. It's a hunger thing.

I've seen him watch balls on the floor at critical times with devastating results. If he somehow gains this appetite I would be a supporter for his entire career and want him as a lifetime King.

 

[Zorgat]

Peja is what some would call a fraction of a polynomial.....if you divide him in 2....not only will the two part be mad at each other...but they will also multiply in to what we know today as a "Stock Broker"


I dont know about you...but Peja might lose some money in our market today.,,,

As we all know uncerttinty in the market is never good for investers

 

[Alacron]

I have but one enormous complaint with Peja. He watches loose balls. It is an instinct. It is a natural competitiveness that Rodmans, Horry's Bryant's Jordan's Bird's, etc., have. It's a hunger thing.

I've seen him watch balls on the floor at critical times with devastating results. If he somehow gains this appetite I would be a supporter for his entire career and want him as a lifetime King.

An image forever burned into my mind is watching Nash sprint up from behind Peja to beat him to a critical loose ball at the end of a (playoff?) game a couple years ago. And, last season of course, Thomas' ill-advised pass vs. the Clippers which Peja should've gotten to.
~~

 

[piksi]

"Yes, I am absolutely playing for the national team this summer," Stojakovic said. "We are the hosts, so it is time for all of us from the NBA and Europe to come together and bring back the gold where it belongs.

Funny how things can get back to "bite you"

I have a feeling that his wife/girlfriend changed her mind after all

 

[Padrino]

I have a feeling that his wife/girlfriend changed her mind after all

if thats the case, i dont blame him. have you seen her?!

 

[piksi]

if thats the case, i dont blame him. have you seen her?!

Absolutely !

She is going for the max contract

 

[Padrino]

Absolutely !

She is going for the max contract

lol

that's funny ****, man. well done.

 

[ParniValjak]

Absolutely !

She is going for the max contract

 

[burekijogurt]

You guys are kidding around, but I bet you there is some truth in it. And its not good.

 

[piksi]

You guys are kidding around, but I bet you there is some truth in it. And its not good.

I am absolutely not kidding around. Just think about it.

trade request because the window was closed

no olympics because of the army duty (in Greace) and a baby (did not know that Pedja was pregnant at the time)

no EC because tired from the season that ended 3 months ago (Don't think Pedja did enough this season to be tired ).

He was offered to have his wife and a son in the same hotel as the national team (gee I wonder why ?) which has never happened befor to a player EVER.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

With all due respect - it has "woman" written all over it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

She is going for the max contract -

 

[Stojakovic]

Right now, Peja is digging a grave for himself with his fans back home. He is on his way to becoming a disliked player, and not without reason. After telling everyone how he would never miss out on the EC tournament which takes place in Belgrade, he now cancels his participation in the tournament because he is "tired" ? What kind of half-assed, wussy-@ss excuse is that ? Is that how he shows respect to those who have followed him and worshipped him endlessly when he was on his way to becoming a great player ?

I think this says a lot about him as a player. He has the talent of a champion, but the only thing he's missing is a HEART. He has no competitive fire, he's not a champion.