Peja Stojakovic: King For Life?
- Thread starter Purple Reign
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
bojan_pecanac said:
He's a great scorer, and yes because of that he will top 30pts on a number of occasions next year. But that's nothing new -- we've been there, done that. Even his best year, with Vlade feeding him at every chance, his per minute numbers were only marginally up from previous campaigns. He is what he is. I would guestimate his rebounding will bounce back to its previous levels now that he's not pouting anymore, if he plays 40min he will get himself 23+ points, from watching him down the stretch this season he will get maybe one more assist, but his shooting percentage will be off as he has to create more for himself. And in the end he will be Peja. We run into San Antonio, Detroit, Utah etc., he will be shut down, just as he always has. The pressure shots will go to Mike, just as they always have.
So sign him already. Or trade him. We know what we have. After 7 years we just HAVE to know. If you don't have a read on Peja Stojakovic of all players after 7 straight very consistent years, then you just don't know the game. So take that read, figure out its true dollar value (not what you pay him because you "like him + think he's nice") and make the offer. And if he wants more than he's worth, you trade him. Its not rocket science. Its not tricky. We're breaking no new ground here or doing anything revolutionary. It is talent assessment and sports management 101. Just do it already and then we can set all of this silly angst over a good but hardly legendary player aside and concentrate on building the team back into a contender, with or without Peja.
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AriesMar27
Guest
this is one more reason why we need jaric.... he could be a better vlade than vlade....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
AriesMar27 said:
I've mentioned before my utter disdain for employing a designated handholder and safety blanket for a professional athlete. The immaturity and weakness just drips from that whole concept. Next thing you know we'd be employing his mommy as an assistant coach.
If we pick up Jaric it has to be because we've made a decision he can give us some significant portion of what we had with Doug, not because the formerly proud Sacramento Kings franchise had resorted to hiring a babysitter for a 28yr old manchild.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
VF21 said:Before or after his international temper tantrum announcing he wanted to be traded anywhere rather than remain a King?
Good question. I think Peja hurt himself quite a bit with that situation.l
ParniValjak
All-Star
I think its a combination of a few things.BigWaxer said:
1. For the first time as a pro he didn't do a lot of work on his game due to a number of circumstances (having to serve army, borth of the first child, not playing for NT)
Peja is the sort of player that needs to work at his game and needs to have a good off-season to play at his best.
2. There is no doubt that that Vlade and then Christie leaving had a big impact on Peja. Those 2 players always looked for Peja and beleived in him. As a result Peja got more good looks than he did this year.
3. I am sure that he didn't get along with Webber and if you don't like someone you are not happy playing with them. Its just like everyone's work place. If you aren't happy in it you are not going to perform to your maximum.
4. Injuries.
Peja without a good off-season is not a Peja at his best.
ParniValjak
All-Star
GREAT point.VF21 said:
No matter what Peja does next year, he just can't win with some people. If he has a career year, some will say it was a contract year performance. If he has a good but not spectacular season the knives will be out.
Either way Peja can't win.
Carolija - AND no matter what Peja does next year, some people will continue to support and revere him. He isn't, as Brick pointed out, a legend in the making. Nor is he the biggest flop ever to play in the NBA. He's a shooter - a blasted good shooter - but he's not a maximum salary player.
It isn't about whether or not Peja can win. It is AND SHOULD BE about whether or not the Kings can win with Peja more than they can without him.
It isn't about whether or not Peja can win. It is AND SHOULD BE about whether or not the Kings can win with Peja more than they can without him.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I have NEVER said he is a max type player. He quite simply isn't. He is in the 10-11 million bracket. Some people might disagree with that but I am sure there would be teams out there that are willing to pay at least that much for him.VF21 said:
Peja is Peja. He is not going to dunk on people and stare them or yell in their face when he does. He is a consistent player who will get you 20+ point at a high efficiency. He will spread the defence and open up things for low post players. Like him or hate him he is one of the most efficient "scorers" in the game. He never has been and never will be a superstar.
He is a good one on one defender, sure he could improve his rebounding but what pisses me off is when people say he is 6-10 and should average more. Height is NOT the reason someone should be a good rebounder. Its their athleticism, positioning and type of game that determines this. If height was a huge issue in rebounding then why aren't Yao and Ilgauskas averaging 12 or more rebounds per game.
From Peja you have every right to expect 6+ rebounds per game and 20+ points scored efficiently.
Peja would be welcome in any team in the league because he is a real threat from long range. Is he a superstar that will put the team on his shoulders and drag it over the line? NO. Will he ever be that player?????? NO. He can still improve but he will never be a superstar.
Unless a team can get a superstar player the team is better off with Peja than they are without him. By superstar, I mean KG, Duncan, Wade, LeBron etc. Those players are one team players more often than not. I for the life of me can't see teams letting those players go unless they are certain circumstances (Eg Shaq/Kobe fued). 99% of the time those are the players you get through draft, not by trading exclusively for them.
It seems to me that Peja is the one that cops all of the blame for where the team is at. Just like Webber when he was here. If someone sneezes it was Webber's fault and now its the same thing with Peja.
Kings can win with Peja and they are better of with him than they are without him unless we are talking about getting a future hall of famer which just ain't gonna happen.
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Carolija - You cannot be serious. Peja is the one that cops all the blame for where the team is at? Au contraire. Peja is copping the blame for talking the talk but not walking the walk, IMHO.
For the record, I didn't say you said he was worth the max. My first comments were directed at you. The rest were general in nature. Sorry for the confusion.
For the record, I didn't say you said he was worth the max. My first comments were directed at you. The rest were general in nature. Sorry for the confusion.
I'm not sure that it has begun in earnest yet, but I think her point may soon be valid. When things aren't going well, or even after one bad game, every team seems to have a scape goat. Webber was it during most of his tenure, and Peja looks like the best candidate now.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Okay.
I agree with this -- 100% -- and understand your point.
But, from here on out, you're NOT ALLOWED to say this in my presence. Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby, Darius Songaila, Eddie House and any other player in the league that happens to be the same age as me is now, and forever shall be, the picture of youth and vitality.
Forever.
Sheesh.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
foretaz said:ok...since it appears ur all in agreement now that peja isnt a superstar and isnt a max player, which of our non superstar players would u like for peja?
You've only got the one superstar -- the other guy is too nutty and undependable to carry that tag. So we'll take him please.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
GoGoGadget said:
Well you noticed GGG that I was careful to say in BASKETBALL terms so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities.
I am quite sure that you personally will remain young and vivacious in normal NON-basketball life well after Peja has started relying on a Little Rascal scooter to get around.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Bricklayer said:Well you noticed GGG that I was careful to say in BASKETBALL terms so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities.
I am quite sure that you personally will remain young and vivacious in normal NON-basketball life well after Peja has started relying on a Little Rascal scooter to get around.
Thank you.
I needed that.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Its his pointfunkykingston said:
Vlad
Bench
As Circa said, $69mm/6 years sounds fair (I'd go as high as $72 if necessary)
That's if they decide to resign him now. But let's say they let him play and prove his worth. Should they wait? What if Peja has a great season (something like 25 ppg and 7 reb) and does well in the PO? It not very likely, but if he played very well, his value would be inflated come free agent time.
I am all for signing him now for a respectable amount (even though secretly I don't want to give him the security and see how he deals with it).
That's if they decide to resign him now. But let's say they let him play and prove his worth. Should they wait? What if Peja has a great season (something like 25 ppg and 7 reb) and does well in the PO? It not very likely, but if he played very well, his value would be inflated come free agent time.
I am all for signing him now for a respectable amount (even though secretly I don't want to give him the security and see how he deals with it).
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Vlad said:
The problem with the "contract year theory" is that it only helps you (assuming he "steps forward") during the one contract year. The season after next, the first one after he signs the new contract, its no longer a contract year and if the whole reason for his exceptional year is he's auditioning, now you really are screwed. Call it "Dampier Syndrome". In a lot of ways the absolute WORST thing that can happen to a team is to wait and have a guy "prove himself", have him overperform because he wants money, because then you turn around and overpay him for a performance that he is not going to duplicate, especially as he ages. Its very much how bad contracts get signed in the NBA.
And even if for some reason you WANTED to be effectively fooled into paying a guy more money than he was going to be worth to you in the future, if Peja Stojakovic enters next offseason without a signed contract, he OWNS the Kings. He can screw us over and set us back years with a single pen stroke. And we hear "oh he would never do that". Yeah, sure. You want to bet the franchise on that? Maybe Scott Skiles says, hey Peja, come join me in big city Chicago with its Serbian population and be our centerpiece scorer. Maybe Phil Jackson says hey, come down and win some titles with old man Vlade here in town. Or Riley/Shaq in Miami (sure Peja's model wife would appreciate that). Or Pop says hey, come be part of our melting pot dynasty. Or whoever, wherever. The fate of the Kings is no longer in our own hands, and that's just a stupid place to put yourself at this point and for this player.
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AriesMar27
Guest
Bricklayer said:
i agree... but i was thinking more along the lines of that he would be looking to get peja his shots.... not so much of him babysitting peja and stroking his ego.... with our current line up, no one will be looking to set peja up.... the 2 guys that did that are gone. having atleast one would be nice, and we need a passer at sg anyways since we have a center that can pass already....
AleksandarN
Starter
Question can Pedja use his player option to opt out of the contract then resign with the team this year? Or does he have to wait for next year to opt out. What I am saying can he opt out now for next year inorder to resign with the team when his option comes up. Because I think he has to wait untill the end of the season to use his option which will leave us in the position where he has all of the power.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
AleksandarN said:
I know what you're saying, but I believe that the way it works is that Peja has a Player Option for '06-'07 (year after next), meaning that the contract does not exist unless he exercises that player option. He's not opting out basically, but choosing not to opt in. Which would mean that as of right now there IS no contract for '06-'07, and there would only be one blinking into existence if Peja chose to exercise his option. And if there is no contract, then we should be able to sign him to the new deal right now (or any time).
Could be wrong though, and my old CBA site is still down due to the negotiations, so I can't check. If I am wrong, that would make Player Options (or Team Options) much more problematic than I think they are -- virtually assuring a risky free agency for any player which signed such a deal.
AleksandarN
Starter
Bricklayer said:
I hope you are right because we would be screwed otherwise
AleksandarN
Starter
VF21 said:
Ok no problem I misunderstood what you were saying.
Hey kids. Just thought I'd check in on this one, since I know you were all just dying for my expert opinion...[/sarcasm]
One thing that I didn't see mentioned, and forgive me if I missed it, is that as long as Mr. Petrie is the general manager of the Kings and making basketball decisions, Peja Stojakovic is NOT getting a maximum contract. Absolutely not.
There's two ways to look at this, and I'll tell you right now that I choose option number two, as Petrie is a basketball connoisseur of the Nth degree, and hasn't to this point let his emotions dissuade him from making a good basketball decision to improve this team (eg., the Webber trade):
1) Petrie scouted, drafted, looked after and coddled Peja for literal years before he actually joined the Kings. Peja is Petrie's baby, for all intensive purposes. The one player that Petrie drafted and made into a star player for the Kings, and now that it's time for him to either get paid or get lost, Petrie will do whatever it takes to make sure that he remains a member of this team.
2) Petrie tells Joe Maloof to shove it up his ***, that he's punch drunk, crazy, insane, insensible, etc., and that he's not going to be the man responsible for crippling the team with a 6 year maximum contract for a mostly one-dimensional player that just a year ago "demanded" to be traded to 'wherever'. In the most respectful way possible, of course.
Geoff Petrie is the man that is mostly responsible for building the Kings team that we've enjoyed for the past few years, the team that is at a very crucial stage if they plan on returning to elite status in the ever-more competive NBA, especially the Western conference (which playoff team from this past season do you expect NOT to make it back, and then which teams out of the Lakers, Wolves, Jazz, Blazers and Warriors do you expect to lose 40+ games next season? Point being that the West is DEEP, STRONG, and TOUGH). He has given me zero indication that he's lost all competence in understanding how to build a winning team, regardless of what the Maloofs say and do.
So if the Maloofs want to lose one of the best team-building managers of the past 15 years (who in the League is on his level right now aside from Joe Dumars, Jerry West and R.C. Buford?), then go ahead and push for a max contract for Peja. Otherwise, expect to see them take a back seat and let Petrie do what he does, and that's build winning teams.
No max for Peja, not from the Kings. He shouldn't even get as much as Bibby did, and the only reason that he might, is because the salary cap just got raised and the luxury tax penalties loosened. I expect a 5-6 year offer, between $75-85 million. That's fair, maybe a bit high, and if the Kings offer him more than that, then they aren't interested in winning, or me being a fan.
One thing that I didn't see mentioned, and forgive me if I missed it, is that as long as Mr. Petrie is the general manager of the Kings and making basketball decisions, Peja Stojakovic is NOT getting a maximum contract. Absolutely not.
There's two ways to look at this, and I'll tell you right now that I choose option number two, as Petrie is a basketball connoisseur of the Nth degree, and hasn't to this point let his emotions dissuade him from making a good basketball decision to improve this team (eg., the Webber trade):
1) Petrie scouted, drafted, looked after and coddled Peja for literal years before he actually joined the Kings. Peja is Petrie's baby, for all intensive purposes. The one player that Petrie drafted and made into a star player for the Kings, and now that it's time for him to either get paid or get lost, Petrie will do whatever it takes to make sure that he remains a member of this team.
2) Petrie tells Joe Maloof to shove it up his ***, that he's punch drunk, crazy, insane, insensible, etc., and that he's not going to be the man responsible for crippling the team with a 6 year maximum contract for a mostly one-dimensional player that just a year ago "demanded" to be traded to 'wherever'. In the most respectful way possible, of course.
Geoff Petrie is the man that is mostly responsible for building the Kings team that we've enjoyed for the past few years, the team that is at a very crucial stage if they plan on returning to elite status in the ever-more competive NBA, especially the Western conference (which playoff team from this past season do you expect NOT to make it back, and then which teams out of the Lakers, Wolves, Jazz, Blazers and Warriors do you expect to lose 40+ games next season? Point being that the West is DEEP, STRONG, and TOUGH). He has given me zero indication that he's lost all competence in understanding how to build a winning team, regardless of what the Maloofs say and do.
So if the Maloofs want to lose one of the best team-building managers of the past 15 years (who in the League is on his level right now aside from Joe Dumars, Jerry West and R.C. Buford?), then go ahead and push for a max contract for Peja. Otherwise, expect to see them take a back seat and let Petrie do what he does, and that's build winning teams.
No max for Peja, not from the Kings. He shouldn't even get as much as Bibby did, and the only reason that he might, is because the salary cap just got raised and the luxury tax penalties loosened. I expect a 5-6 year offer, between $75-85 million. That's fair, maybe a bit high, and if the Kings offer him more than that, then they aren't interested in winning, or me being a fan.
AleksandarN
Starter
Superman said:
I agree no max for Pedja that is obvious. But why do you think he should not get a deal like Bibby? To me he is worth a 6 year deal worth around 75-80 mill
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