Omri Casspi - good signing or not?

[ShastaKingsFan]

What are people supposed to call the bottom 10% players in the NBA? We can't call them really good players (even though they are compared to the world population) because people would get confused and not know what you are talking about. We describe them in comparison to the competition they play against. It's like saying we can't call a player who has never played a minute for his AAU team a scrub because he's really good when he plays against recreational players. They are different levels of competition, and you will be judged by what level you play on.

Is an NBA player a scrub? No. Can an NBA player be considered a scrub compared to his fellow NBAers? Of course.

There's no requirement to call anyone a "scrub" or anything similar, who takes a sport seriously and puts a lot of time and effort into it. You don't really need to tell them they "suck" either. Whatever happened to "backup" or "3rd string" etc...if you really need a 'label'

 

[KingMilz]

Casspi is a good player. He's better than Outlaw and has more of an idea of his NBA role than D-Will. If D-Will doesn't get his act together Casspi is a good pickup

No he's not Outlaws best craps on Casspi's best and both are rarely at there best and both are super average or below average most of the time, Outlaw did a excellent job this year filling a role when he was actually given direction by a coach and unlike Casspi he did't talk crap about lack of playing time.

Again we got Casspi not Chandler Parsons he was signed by the Mavericks on a 45 million dollar deal.

 

[The_Jamal]

Bench players
Role players
Their name
End of the bench

You mean that's an option??

I still don't get why Andremiller thinks other fans think we got Chandler Parsons. Pretty much everyone is in agreement that we got a vet experienced depth guy on a vet min. deal. There's no delusions that people think Casspi is the missing piece to the championship run. He's simply a good depth move, who improves our back-up SF/small-ball PF situation and allows us to shop 11mil in enders without fear of having no one to back-up Rudy. That's a ton of value for a $1mil contract.

 

[KingMilz]

You mean that's an option??

I still don't get why Andremiller thinks other fans think we got Chandler Parsons. Pretty much everyone is in agreement that we got a vet experienced depth guy on a vet min. deal. There's no delusions that people think Casspi is the missing piece to the championship run. He's simply a good depth move, who improves our back-up SF/small-ball PF situation and allows us to shop 11mil in enders without fear of having no one to back-up Rudy. That's a ton of value for a $1mil contract.

How? A good depth move is getting a guy who can play and play well like say the Wizards getting Andre Miller himself and Drew Gooden or the Spurs getting Diaw not getting a guy who I don't think is better than either D-Will or Outlaw and is a 3rd/4th string SF, a good depth move is getting a 1st or 2nd string player you know can really play on the team. He does nothing for depth other than clog up a position we don't need now that Rudy opted in.

I would rather spent that 1 mil on a no name with potential rather than a guy who's pretty much what he is.

 

[Bricklayer]

There's no requirement to call anyone a "scrub" or anything similar, who talks a sport seriously and puts a lot of time and effort into it. You don't really need to tell them they "suck" either. Whatever happened to "backup" or "3rd string" etc...if you really need a 'label'

Scrub works just fine for guys who suck eggs.

 

[twslam07]

Bench players
Role players
Their name
End of the bench

Those are all valid synonyms. Scrub works just as well.

 

[KingMilz]

Those are all valid synonyms. Scrub works just as well.

Scrub just has that x-factor to it imo

 

[VF21]

Those are all valid synonyms. Scrub works just as well.

You asked what we were supposed to call the bottom 10% of players in the NBA. I came up with a handful of terms, none of which were insulting or demeaning.

(General comment not specifically addressed towards twslam07) - I'm not quite sure at what point a bunch of keyboard cowboys decided they were somehow entitled to look down on NBA players but it's gotten ridiculous. The elitist snob attitude only works if you're actually better than those you're looking down on, and let's be honest. These guys are at a level none of you could come close to. If you could, you'd be walking the walk instead of just talking the talk.

Criticism and analysis is fine for lovers of the game. But the disdain with which some of you view players who have for whatever reason not lived up to your standards or expectations is just silly.

 

[TheJewishKing]

No he's not Outlaws best craps on Casspi's best and both are rarely at there best and both are super average or below average most of the time, Outlaw did a excellent job this year filling a role when he was actually given direction by a coach and unlike Casspi he did't talk crap about lack of playing time.

Again we got Casspi not Chandler Parsons he was signed by the Mavericks on a 45 million dollar deal.

This is your opinion, the way I see Casspi is a better player than Travis Outlaw, he is also younger and has lots of years to contribute to the NBA and lots of years to improve his game and get better, I do agree that both Casspi and Outlaw are averaged players, I said already numerous times I believe, they are both mediocre and not less than that.

As far as I am concerned Casspi was doing pretty good himself as well filling the minutes of the power forward spot where he played most of the year and also playing on the small forward role, You can compare their stats of last season and Casspi tops Outlaw, he was playing one more minute in average than Outlaw and his output was more impressive also considering the fact he was regressing as the season was winding down and sort of lost the trust of coach McHale.
So what if it seems that Casspi sometimes insolent to his coaches about his playing time, that's only because he wants to contribute to the team, at least he has the impertinence to ask for more minutes and clarify why he lost minutes on the team.

And enough with the Chandler Parsons comparison, we comprehend Casspi is not Chandler Parsons, and he will never be, there is no doubt that both of those players are not on the same level.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This is your opinion, the way I see Casspi is a better player than Travis Outlaw, he is also younger and has lots of years to contribute to the NBA and lots of years to improve his game and get better, I do agree that both Casspi and Outlaw are averaged players, I said already numerous times I believe, they are both mediocre and not less than that.

As far as I am concerned Casspi was doing pretty good himself as well filling the minutes of the power forward spot where he played most of the year and also playing on the small forward role, You can compare their stats of last season and Casspi tops Outlaw, he was playing one more minute in average than Outlaw and his output was more impressive also considering the fact he was regressing as the season was winding down and sort of lost the trust of coach McHale.

With regard to the bolded portion, the numbers don't appear to bear that out. With regard to your second paragraph, I suppose that, if I were to look at each players' 2013-14 season in isolation, a case could be made that Casspi was better than Outlaw, but I can't think of a reason why I should feel compelled to do that. When you look at their respective careers as a whole, Outlaw appears to be a better overall player. Both the raw numbers and the "advanced" metrics bear this out. While Casspi is a better rebounder and a better three-point shooter, Outlaw appears to be better in all other aspects of the game, even if only ever so slightly. But, as the great philosopher Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz once said, "Ever so slightly happens to qualify."

So what if it seems that Casspi sometimes insolent to his coaches about his playing time, that's only because he wants to contribute to the team, at least he has the impertinence to ask for more minutes and clarify why he lost minutes on the team.

!!!!

So what, indeed.

My bad, I was under the impression that these guys get paid. I expect professional athletes to be, you know, professionals, especially the two-a-penny, deep rotation players, such as the likes of Casspi and Outlaw. I don't really feel like "wanting to contribute to the team" justifies a deep bencher being a malcontent, but your mileage obviously varies.

 

[TheJewishKing]

With regard to the bolded portion, the numbers don't appear to bear that out. With regard to your second paragraph, I suppose that, if I were to look at each players' 2013-14 season in isolation, a case could be made that Casspi was better than Outlaw, but I can't think of a reason why I should feel compelled to do that. When you look at their respective careers as a whole, Outlaw appears to be a better overall player. Both the raw numbers and the "advanced" metrics bear this out. While Casspi is a better rebounder and a better three-point shooter, Outlaw appears to be better in all other aspects of the game, even if only ever so slightly. But, as the great philosopher Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz once said, "Ever so slightly happens to qualify."

Actually you are required to regard and compare their last seasons as NBA players, due to the fact that last season pretty much indicates on their current capacity as basketball players, so when you compare Outlaw to Casspi the results are that Casspi will be more vital and imperative for your team, Casspi is still young, he is 26 years old and entering his sixth season as an NBA player, it means he is pretty much experienced in the NBA but still young and can shape his game according the needs of the team, he is still in proper age and situation as a player where he can improve and change aspects in his game, Outlaw on the hand is about to reach the age where he should be in his prime, almost 30 years old, Outlaw isn't going to execute any breakthrough anytime soon, not anymore.
And if you would like to discuss their career averages than you should get your facts correct, Casspi is a better rebounder and a better 3-pt shooter but in addition he also tops Outlaw in intercepting the ball and also assisting the ball, the only parameters where Outlaw tops Casspi are points and FG percentages.

!!!!

So what, indeed.

My bad, I was under the impression that these guys get paid. I expect professional athletes to be, you know, professionals, especially the two-a-penny, deep rotation players, such as the likes of Casspi and Outlaw. I don't really feel like "wanting to contribute to the team" justifies a deep bencher being a malcontent, but your mileage obviously varies.

Than I guess what you are really looking for in your players are that sort of players that would only get paid for sitting on the bench and contribute only once in few games, well I don't think that's OK with Casspi, Casspi signed with Sacramento in order to contribute to the team, I don't know why you refer to Casspi as a deep rotation player, when he was playing with the Kings initially he was not a deep rotation player on the contrary he was essential part of the rotation and sometimes even a starter, same happened with Cleveland, in the beginning he was a starter and then again a solid player of the bench until he the regression started, and then again in Houston Casspi was an important player in McHale's rotation and even started in two games, then he was regressing again and became a deep-rotation player, I'm yet to be sure about Casspi's role in Sac-town but let's not jump ahead to conclusions about him being a deep-rotation player when he might take both Outlaw's and William's minutes.

Last time I checked, usually fans of teams would like their players regardless to their spot on the rotation to care about the team and to contribute in any given way to the team and not sit down on the bench while getting paid and not care about helping the team when needed, Casspi is not that type of player that's what I am basically saying, I think it is justified that he would talk with his coach about his minutes since he genuinely cares about the team, what is so bad about it?

 

[Spike]

Here. Y'all can argue over the numbers. They're fairly similar, strengthening neither argument.


I'll just grab the popcorn now.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I beg your pardon? I'm required to do what, now?

It's not about "not caring," and that's a bull**** straw man argument. What I'm looking for are "that sort of players" who act like professionals, which in this context means they don't go and ***** to reporters in their hometown about their playing time. I expect professional athletes to be team players, whether they're playing five minutes or thirty-five minutes. If there's one good thing that you can say about Travis Outlaw, it's that he's always ready to go, whether he played fifteen minutes the night before, or was DNP-CD. And, when he gets those DNP's, he doesn't hang his head, he doesn't pout, he doesn't try to make it about himself. You're never going to hear about him running to the Starksville Daily News, or the Clarion-Ledger to ***** about how he feels he should be playing more. If you think that translates to "not caring," well, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

I don't accept "passion," or whatever else you may want to attribute it to, as an excuse for complaining. Omri Casspi is not a star, he is a roleplayer. Nobody likes to hear roleplayers complain about playing time. They don't like it when it's Jason Thompson, they don't like it when it's Marcus Thornton, and they don't like it when it's Omri Casspi.

I call Casspi a deep rotation player, because he is one. For starters, he's a roleplayer. Now, there's no shame in that: by the criteria that I use, there are only about forty-five, maybe fifty guys in the entire NBA who are not roleplayers. Roleplayers are further divided into four sub-categories: starters (and, on a good team, Casspi is not one), short rotation players (your sixth and seventh men, again, Casspi is not one of these on a good team), deep rotation players (eighth, ninth and tenth men, this is where Casspi falls), and garbage-time players.

 

[TheJewishKing]

I beg your pardon? I'm required to do what, now?

It's not about "not caring," and that's a bull**** straw man argument. What I'm looking for are "that sort of players" who act like professionals, which in this context means they don't go and ***** to reporters in their hometown about their playing time. I expect professional athletes to be team players, whether they're playing five minutes or thirty-five minutes. If there's one good thing that you can say about Travis Outlaw, it's that he's always ready to go, whether he played fifteen minutes the night before, or was DNP-CD. And, when he gets those DNP's, he doesn't hang his head, he doesn't pout, he doesn't try to make it about himself. You're never going to hear about him running to the Starksville Daily News, or the Clarion-Ledger to ***** about how he feels he should be playing more. If you think that translates to "not caring," well, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

I don't accept "passion," or whatever else you may want to attribute it to, as an excuse for complaining. Omri Casspi is not a star, he is a roleplayer. Nobody likes to hear roleplayers complain about playing time. They don't like it when it's Jason Thompson, they don't like it when it's Marcus Thornton, and they don't like it when it's Omri Casspi.

I call Casspi a deep rotation player, because he is one. For starters, he's a roleplayer. Now, there's no shame in that: by the criteria that I use, there are only about forty-five, maybe fifty guys in the entire NBA who are not roleplayers. Roleplayers are further divided into four sub-categories: starters (and, on a good team, Casspi is not one), short rotation players (your sixth and seventh men, again, Casspi is not one of these on a good team), deep rotation players (eighth, ninth and tenth men, this is where Casspi falls), and garbage-time players.

Come on, you exaggerating making it sound like Casspi is serial whiner which turns to the media every time he is unhappy, well that's not the truth, I do remember times when Casspi was frustrated about his role on the team and about his minutes and he was telling it to the reporters, is there anything wrong about it?, did it make the coach change his mind? I don't think so, Casspi has any right to say whatever he feels unless he offends or degrades someone or the organization he plays for, bottom line is, Casspi is willing to play and contribute at any given time just like Travis Outlaw he is willing to get up everytime and fight for his team, the fact Casspi is speaking openly with the media doesn't need to be in Casspi's downfall.

And Casspi is a professional just like anyone else in this league, last time I checked Casspi's target audience was a little bit bigger than Outlaw's therefore, he will always be asked more intrusive questions about his team and playing time than Outlaw, thus far Casspi proved his loyalty to the teams he played for, he never gave up on himself on any team he played for and always played proudly and that's what should be the criteria for the definition of a "professional", a definition which Casspi is definitely included him.

Frustration and being unhappy is a humane feeling, anyone is allowed to express his feelings, if the greatest players in the world can do and they should be lead by example then why mediocre players can do it?

To sum things up your perception of what is being professional is wrong from the very base, Casspi is a professional who gives 100% to the team and just like any other player he is allowed to express his frustration, it doesn't make him less professional than any other player.

 

[twslam07]

You asked what we were supposed to call the bottom 10% of players in the NBA. I came up with a handful of terms, none of which were insulting or demeaning.

(General comment not specifically addressed towards twslam07) - I'm not quite sure at what point a bunch of keyboard cowboys decided they were somehow entitled to look down on NBA players but it's gotten ridiculous. The elitist snob attitude only works if you're actually better than those you're looking down on, and let's be honest. These guys are at a level none of you could come close to. If you could, you'd be walking the walk instead of just talking the talk.

Criticism and analysis is fine for lovers of the game. But the disdain with which some of you view players who have for whatever reason not lived up to your standards or expectations is just silly.

Everyone is so gosh darn sensitive these days...

You read into things way too much. This is one of the problems with our society. Everyone has to be so PC nowadays. It's a simple term to describe some of the worst players in the league. It doesn't mean I think I'm better than him. Get over it.

You're making an issue out of something that isn't there. It's just plain silly.

 

[VF21]

Everyone is so gosh darn sensitive these days...

You read into things way too much. This is one of the problems with our society. Everyone has to be so PC nowadays. It's a simple term to describe some of the worst players in the league. It doesn't mean I think I'm better than him. Get over it.

You're making an issue out of something that isn't there. It's just plain silly.

If anyone is a tad too sensitive, perhaps you should look in the mirror. I specifically said I wasn't referring to you. I'm referring to a handful of posters who ALWAYS find a way to demean one of our players, something that has always disturbed me. Call me old-fashioned or silly or whatever else, but I like to support our players. Honest criticism is one thing, but there are a certain few who always have to take it too far. Just my two cents...but again, I wasn't referring to you.

 

[twslam07]

If anyone is a tad too sensitive, perhaps you should look in the mirror. I specifically said I wasn't referring to you. I'm referring to a handful of posters who ALWAYS find a way to demean one of our players, something that has always disturbed me. Call me old-fashioned or silly or whatever else, but I like to support our players. Honest criticism is one thing, but there are a certain few who always have to take it too far. Just my two cents...but again, I wasn't referring to you.

I realize you weren't talking to me directly, but you were talking to a group who is okay with using the word "scrub" (Brick, Andremiller, myself, etc.) so in a sense you did address me.

Now did I ever address Casspi as being a scrub? No. I am actually in favor of the signing. He has great value at the league minimum. I wouldn't call him a scrub because I think he can contribute on the floor. Are there players in the league that I wouldn't mind calling a scrub? Sure. I don't specifically recall ever using the term scrub, but I don't have a problem with people using it because it is in comparison to the rest of the league.

I'm sure almost all the people on this forum are far worse than the scrubbiest scrub in the NBA. I'll be the first to call myself scrub master supreme if it will make you all happy, but I'm not going to take offense to it nor am I going to get all upset when others use it.

People are entitled to get upset over the use of the word scrub as much as people are entitled to use it. As long as both parties understand where the other is coming from, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[VF21]

I realize you weren't talking to me directly, but you were talking to a group who is okay with using the word "scrub" (Brick, Andremiller, myself, etc.) so in a sense you did address me..

Actually, I was talking about people not listed above. But I do agree with your last sentence, so it's all good.

 

[VF21]

Here's an assessment of Omri from Brick's scouting reports of a few years ago. If we can get that Omri back, with the noted focus on defense, I think he'll do fine for his role.

 

[pshn80]

Those are all valid synonyms. Scrub works just as well.

Scrub implies to me - shouldn't be on the team.

 

[VF21]

Scrub implies to me - shouldn't be on the team.

I agree. I think it might be an age/generation thing, pshn80. To me, scrub has the same implication and is pretty much an insult to a player who may not be a superstar or even regular player but still works hard and contributes.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Scrub implies to me - shouldn't be on the team.

The term first came about on the "play ground", for someone who never or rarely played basketball. In other words, for someone who has no real idea what they're doing and never/rarely plays or practices

 

[Entity]

 

[LPKingsFan]

Indeed! We don't know whether Casspi has ever hung out the passenger side of his best friend's right, and tried to holler at a member of TLC, no?

 

[Bricklayer]

The term first came about on the "play ground", for someone who never or rarely played basketball. In other words, for someone who has no real idea what they're doing and never/rarely plays or practices

And then somebody witnessed the play of the Sacramento Kings for these past 8 years, and now they just call those guys "Kings".

 

[VF21]

And then somebody witnessed the play of the Sacramento Kings for these past 8 years, and now they just call those guys "Kings".

You're a big meanie.

 

[TheJewishKing]

I thought you would be interested to hear that the Israeli national basketball team has played earlier today against the national basketball team of Montenegro, the game was part of the qualification tournament of the Eurobasket 2015 tournament, unfortunately Israel has lost by a margin of 3 points after losing in overtime.

Casspi was playing really well in this game, he scored 28 points, his field goals were very decent, he was 9 of 16 from the field, including 2 of 3 from the 3pt shot and was 8-11 from the free throw line, he also grabbed 10 rebounds and passed 5 assists, him and Gal Mekel were playing really well, both are our only NBA players.

 

[flamecrow]

Indeed! We don't know whether Casspi has ever hung out the passenger side of his best friend's right, and tried to holler at a member of TLC, no?

ride*

 

[LPKingsFan]

ride*

Nice catch!

 

[FaStRmAn]

If we can somehow dump Outlaw and Williams, then it is a fantastic signing. I'd rather Caspi come in and run up and down the floor and pass the ball than paying Outlaw or Williams to do it. Outlaw jacks up shots he should not take and Williams is a perennial under achiever. Caspi has the potential to be a ROLE player who fills out the end of the bench. League has a minimum amount of players that must be on the roster. Trouble is the end of the bench rarely plays. Doesn't matter who is warming the bench really. Just so long as they dont cost much and are not complaining about playing time.