Old Trade Thread (no longer need to post all trades here)

AleksandarN said:
Denver needs a SG badly and Bonzi might be an option for them. Look they were after Cat this offseason and Bonzi is 2x better then Cat.
Denver is in need of a shooting guard who can shoot and stretch the defense. I don't see Bonzi fitting in there at all. They are already playing Andre Miller in spots at the 2 and he's in the mold of Bonzi in that he likes to play with his back to the basket and he's an above average rebounder for his size.
 
I've thought about a trade with Denver that ships out Bonzi for Nene and Watson. There are a few problems.

First, Nene is out for the rest of the season and Bonzi isn't. Despite Martin's play, this move could look like the team is throwing in the towel on the season. Not the message to send.

Secondly, Nene is also a free agent who will be looking for a payday. There's no guarantee that the Kings retain him. That's a worst case scenario, as you trade away a starter for a guy who never logs a minute and then leaves you with nothing in return.

Finally, there's the question of why Denver would want Bonzi. They need a guy to stretch defenses and that's not Wells. This deal would need to involve three teams to work.
 
Bricklayer said:
Figure the keepers in rough order are:

Artest
Miller
Bibby
Martin
Garcia
Bonzi
SAR
Thomas
the rest

I agree with the overall point of your post (almost any deal for a big needs to include one of our bigs if only to clean up the roster), but my list of keepers looks a little different:

Artest
Martin
Bibby
Bonzi
Garcia
Miller
Abdur-Rahim
Skinner
Williamson
Price
A ham sandwich
Hart
Dirty sweatsocks
Sampson
Nude photos of Bea Arthur
Kenny Thomas

Not to lavish the kid in superlatives after his recent productive stint, but I see Martin as a keeper partly due to his low price tag. Miller drops on my list because his poor defense (both man-to-man and interior are atrocious) is going to continue to be an achilles heel until we either move him or get him some help.

I think Skinner should get more reserve minutes, but that's a conversation for another time. He and Corliss are keepers for now, because they become ending contracts next season, and hopefully Geoff can make good use of that fact in a trade or trades.

Bonzi was the hardest to place. He is at once a valuable member of the team and the player most likely to be dealt before the deadline. If he's not traded, then he definitely becomes a keeper as losing him for nothing is unacceptable. Unless a shotblocker like Dalembert can be had, I'm in favor of keeping Wells. He's probably more valuable to the current Kings team than any other team that he'd be dealt to.
 
funkykingston said:
I've thought about a trade with Denver that ships out Bonzi for Nene and Watson. There are a few problems.

First, Nene is out for the rest of the season and Bonzi isn't. Despite Martin's play, this move could look like the team is throwing in the towel on the season. Not the message to send.

Secondly, Nene is also a free agent who will be looking for a payday. There's no guarantee that the Kings retain him. That's a worst case scenario, as you trade away a starter for a guy who never logs a minute and then leaves you with nothing in return.

Finally, there's the question of why Denver would want Bonzi. They need a guy to stretch defenses and that's not Wells. This deal would need to involve three teams to work.

Agreed.

Also agreed on Bonzi above.
 
K-Mart??

Denver is looking to ship out Kenyons contract....would theybe willing to take back Kenny thomas..

kmart+watson........bonzi+kt+garcia

bibby/watson
kmart/??
artest/??
kmart/SAR
miller/skinner

is this horrible for sacrmento??
 
I can't imagine Denver looking to deal Martin and his contract, and willing to take back KT and his contract. Granted, K-Mart's deal is more of an albatross, but then he's also a more talented player.

I'm guessing that Denver would rather have Reef, but I still don't see why they'd want Bonzi, considering their other starters.

Still, if was offered, I'd take it in a heartbeat, though I'd be upset to lose Garcia.
 
funkykingston said:
I can't imagine Denver looking to deal Martin and his contract, and willing to take back KT and his contract. Granted, K-Mart's deal is more of an albatross, but then he's also a more talented player.

I'm guessing that Denver would rather have Reef, but I still don't see why they'd want Bonzi, considering their other starters.

Still, if was offered, I'd take it in a heartbeat, though I'd be upset to lose Garcia.
I wouldn't do it. That would be taking back two long contracts in place of one. It would also be sending away a promising youngster. If they were willing to do that, they surely wouldn't mind taking Hart instead:D . Either way, Garcia wouldn't have to be included to make it work salary wise.
 
Why would they do that trade? Mil. that is. I could see the Kings jumping all over it but I don't see it from the other side.
 
crutonimo said:
Denver is looking to ship out Kenyons contract....would theybe willing to take back Kenny thomas..

kmart+watson........bonzi+kt+garcia

bibby/watson
kmart/??
artest/??
kmart/SAR
miller/skinner

is this horrible for sacrmento??

Any deal where we end up with an undersized gimpy tweener forward wiht a bad contrract (Martin) is pretty much a bad one for us. Let alone giving up Bonzi and Garcia to get him. Kenyon Martin is not a terribly valuable commodity in the NBA at this point, nor should he be. NO MORE 6'8" "power" forwards!
 
AleksandarN said:
Denver needs a SG badly and Bonzi might be an option for them. Look they were after Cat this offseason and Bonzi is 2x better then Cat.
Yead but Bonzi is a post up SG where as Cat is a shooter.

Denver's need is a shooter and Bonzi is not it. They need someone who can spread the defence and hit a long range shot with some sort of consistency. For Denver its not a matter of who is a better player but who is a better fit.
 
I actually don't know that Denver is going to get much better of an offer than Bonzi for Watson and Nene. That doesn't mean they'll agree to that deal, but there aren't exactly a lot of readily available shooting guards of Bonzi's caliber. The only other halfway decent shooting guard rumored to be available is Flip Murray, and he's a worse outside shooter than Bonzi. It wouldn't be a perfect match for Denver. Yes, Bonzi is not the shooter they need, but they also really need to shake things up, and they could see how Bonzi works out for a half season and then they can either re-sign Bonzi or use the draft and MLE on a shooting guard.

Denver needs to realize that no one is going to take Kenyon Martin and start thinking of other solutions. They could do worse than Bonzi. Unfortunately for the Kings, I'm guessing they'll want to hold onto Nene until the offseason to see what he might bring in a S&T, and Bonzi for Earl Watson and change probably isn't worth it for the Kings.
 
An Open Letter to Kevin McHale & Glen Taylor, GM & Owner of the Timberwolves:

Dear Kevin and Glen,

We need your superstar. I know, I know, he's YOUR superstar. But really, what's the point already? You are floundering. Out of the playoffs and sinking. And even your famously passionate superstar just looks depressed out there, weighted down by trying to singlehandedly carry your franchise for all these years and never really having a shot to be better than mediocre because you never got him enough help. What you guys need is a fresh start.

And you owe it to KG. He's played his heart out for you for a decade. Time to let him go to a competent franchise and chase that title.

And chase a title he would. I have seen Ron Artest up close and personal now and come to the conclusion that he is not selfish, he does not want to be Kobe, and all he wants to do is win. And cut rap records. I think he might actually have a problem working with a selfish shot oriented superstar, but we all know KG has always been everything but that. Two unselfish superstars, both passionate, high energy guys, tremendous defenders, and with mutual respect. Could be a match made in heaven.

But of course that's why we do it. You of course are going to need something back. Now unfortunately our list of keepers is growing fairly lengthy. And no, you can't have our kids. But we still have abundant spare parts. Enough for an interesting package. Enough to let you get a fresh start and free yourselves from KG's oh so onerous contract. It really is for your own good.

So we are prepared to trade you Bonzi Wells, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Brian Skinner, and our 2006 first round pick for your one KG. You know what? If you ask real nicely you can have our 2008 first round pick too. RealGm says it works, and what more do you need to know really?

Picks, players, ending contracts -- what more could you ask? I have it on good authority that trading one star for three lesser players is actually a great move that gives you "flexibility". Heck, last time we did it all we got back was Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson, and Skinner, so you guys are making out like relative bandits. Robbing us blind really.

And these aren't just any three players you're getting back. Even before the picks, these are three guys who will make all your dreams come true. Really. I mean it. Why would I lie to you? Reef...you'll love Reef, you really will. Classy guy, plays through pain. And did you know that he once averaged 20-10 in a season? Been a while, but there is not a doubt in my mind that he's ready to do it again. I can just feel it. And at that price tag -- $5mil a year? Wow. You get a great KG replacement back at 1/4 the price. In fact, you may not even know that KG is gone. And the best part? I again have it on good authority that he owns Kevin defensively. Shuts him down. KG is just helpless as a babe against him. And so you will never have to worry about getting your *** handed to you 4x a year by your former star. You've got Reef. What more could any team need?

And Brian...Brian's another good guy. And really, I've been told an absolute Ben Wallace clone. No difference between them at all in fact. He should be able to step right in and give you that dirtywork pro to help you settle that nasty center situation you have. May even very well become the starter. And will be a pro about it. And his contract is up after next year with a TEAM option -- so you can make the call whether to reup him or free up more cap space. Isn't that cool? And oh so much nicer than all of those 4 and 5 year anvils that you guys are always handing out. Not that that makes you stupid you understand. Just....unlucky. Well your luck is about to change. Big Brian to the rescue.

And Bonzi...wow, Bonzi has been great for us. Really has. You may remember him as some team wrecking cancer, but have you paid attention this year? He's turned into a Sacto cult hero. And I'm not buying that "we're shy of bad personalities after Cassel and Spree" bit. You just traded for Ricky Davis. The man who once took a shot at his own basket to try to get a triple double. Only reason we're even willing to give Bonzi up is because of the emergence of Kevin Martin. And his contract situation. And there's the beauty for you. If Bonzi doesn't work out, you just let him walk and that's $9 mil off the books right there. If he does, and his toughness matches well with what Casey wants, you could actually net yourself three starters here.

So there it is. A cheap KG replacement, a starting center, a starting OG who can become $9mil off the books, and a pick or two to accelerate the rebuiliding. This summer you could add two lottery picks, your own and ours --- because of course we promise not to go on a huge run with our new Miller/KG/Artest/Martin/Bibby lineup -- and have financial flexibility for the first time in years. Hey, and you know what, if you really pressed the issue we might even be able to take some of those nasty disappointing contracts off of your hands if it will help grease the deal. If you just want to free yourself of Jaric, of Griffin, just ask. We like Corliss, and so would you. And he's another contract ending after next year as well as one helluva nice guy. We'd even be willing to throw in a superstud in waiting in Jamal Sampson if Griffin was included, and Jason Hart if Jaric was coming. Hey, much shorter contract, no?

Come on guys, time to step to the table. I know you want to. You'll make a lot of fans happy. Maybe not Minnesota fans, but that's just lines on the map right? And besides, there are only two or three Wolves fans left to upset. Bottomline, you'll be doing a good deed. For us. For KG. For the NBA. You'll feel good about yourselves in the morning, I promise. No...no, don't pick up the phone to call Geoff or the Maloofs. Not necessary, although I think the Maloofs at least would be down with this. We the fans got this one. You just tell KG to get himself on a plane to Sacto tommorow. We'll take care of the rest. When Mr. Garnett arrives in town to a press conference to announce the trade, don't think that Geoff will have much choice but to just go with it.

Thank you gentleman for all your cooperation in our title run. We couldn't have done it without you really. And you can be sure that the Maloof's will extend you some VIP tickets to the big victory bash at the Palms. You might even get to stay in the $50,000 a night basketball suite for free. Will be a nice change from all those pesky Minnesotaers with their pitchforks and torches hanging around outside the Target Center.

Thank you again, and God Bless.

Sincerely,
Sacramento Kings fans everywhere
 
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I don't think Garnett is the solution to the team. He'd help, but I'm not sure that's the answer. He'd strap the team financially - to the core.

If you couldn't get to the big one quickly, you'd lose Martin/Garcia because you couldn't afford them. It'd be terrible and you'd be in the same boat as Minnesota. A team with one heck of a player and no ability to surround him with talent to win.

I think this current Kings team can suprise some people. I really do.

Our biggest hole is still Bibby's lack of defense and a lack of an interior stalwart monster ... but I'm not willing to concede that it will kill us.

With Artest, I've seen Reef play like a monster defensively on rotations. I've seen Bibby step up his intensity. I've seen Garcia look like a man possessed. Martin is learning, but isn't afraid to get dirty. Not too sure how Miller will respond, but so far he's looked more sturdy.

I think this team is capable of doing some things. Championship? I dunno. But, I don't think Garnett and a lack of a bench is the solution.
 
playmaker0017 said:
I don't think Garnett is the solution to the team. He'd help, but I'm not sure that's the answer. He'd strap the team financially - to the core.

If you couldn't get to the big one quickly, you'd lose Martin/Garcia because you couldn't afford them. It'd be terrible and you'd be in the same boat as Minnesota. A team with one heck of a player and no ability to surround him with talent to win.

I think this current Kings team can suprise some people. I really do.

Our biggest hole is still Bibby's lack of defense and a lack of an interior stalwart monster ... but I'm not willing to concede that it will kill us.

With Artest, I've seen Reef play like a monster defensively on rotations. I've seen Bibby step up his intensity. I've seen Garcia look like a man possessed. Martin is learning, but isn't afraid to get dirty. Not too sure how Miller will respond, but so far he's looked more sturdy.

I think this team is capable of doing some things. Championship? I dunno. But, I don't think Garnett and a lack of a bench is the solution.
for Skinner, Wells, and Reef...heck yes it is the solution.

With Garnett on this team Bibby would be half the defensive liability he is now.

Mr. McHale, do this. You will make many upon many happy Kingsfans...Heck Ill even mow your lawn if you pull the trigger on this deal.
 
playmaker0017 said:
I don't think Garnett is the solution to the team. He'd help, but I'm not sure that's the answer. He'd strap the team financially - to the core.

If you couldn't get to the big one quickly, you'd lose Martin/Garcia because you couldn't afford them. It'd be terrible and you'd be in the same boat as Minnesota. A team with one heck of a player and no ability to surround him with talent to win.

I think this current Kings team can suprise some people. I really do.

Our biggest hole is still Bibby's lack of defense and a lack of an interior stalwart monster ... but I'm not willing to concede that it will kill us.

With Artest, I've seen Reef play like a monster defensively on rotations. I've seen Bibby step up his intensity. I've seen Garcia look like a man possessed. Martin is learning, but isn't afraid to get dirty. Not too sure how Miller will respond, but so far he's looked more sturdy.

I think this team is capable of doing some things. Championship? I dunno. But, I don't think Garnett and a lack of a bench is the solution.

I'm not a subscriber to the "Garnett = championship" idea, but this would be the potential lineup:

PG: Bibby, Hart, Price
SG: Martin, Garcia
SF: Artest, Garcia
PF: Garnett, KT
C: Miller, Sampson (hopefully free agent/draftee added in offseason)

That's a ridiculously good lineup. Ridiculously good offensively and now you have two stoppers in the starting lineup, one on the outside and one on the inside. This lineup would absolutely give the Pistons and Spurs a run for their money.

As for the financial flexibility, the Kings don't need to worry about extending Martin until the end of the 2008 season, and Garcia until the end of the 2009 season. Shedding Bonzi's, SAR's and Skinner's salaries and adding Garnett would mean the total payroll would be:

2005-2006: $60 million
2006-2007: $66 million (plus a free agent/rookie)
2007-2008: $55 million (plus free agents/rookies)

These are high, but it's not even approaching what the Maloofs spent in the early 2000s heyday, and they'd probably be contending for a championship every year. At the end of 2008 the Kings will need to extend Artest and Martin, but they don't have a whole lot of salary tied up then.

If Minnesota would be willing to give up Garnett without receiving one of the Kings' core in return.... I mean, there just isn't a bigger no-brainer than that. Petrie would even think about it, he'd just pull the trigger.
 
Yoda said:
for Skinner, Wells, and Reef...heck yes it is the solution.

It's not what you trade out - it's the fact that you actually LOSE three roster spots with Garnett's gigumbo salary.

Garnett is a superior player - but at that salary, you can get other pieces to the puzzle and keep the roster spots.

If you haven't noticed this year - our lack of a bench at the beginning of the season had a lot to do with the hole we are currently in.

With Garnett on this team Bibby would be half the defensive liability he is now.

Doubtful. A PG as a defensive liability isn't always masked by having a defensive presence inside. It negates the affect of a scoring PG, but a good PG will shuffle the ball off to the now open man that Garnett had to vacate to defend Bibby's mistake.

It's a step up - but I don't believe it solves all the problems.

Honestly, I think it's easier to trade Bibby for a more defensive minded PG to fill the gap. Of couse, we'd really have to rely on the steady development of Martin and hope Artest continues to look decent from outside.

Again, I think this team, as currently constructed CAN and SHOULD win.


It doesn't matter, it isn't realistic anyhow.
 
playmaker0017 said:
I
Again, I think this team, as currently constructed CAN and SHOULD win.
any team with Reef or Thomas in the starting lineup will never amount to anything.

As for you Bibby thoughts, I think you are wrong. Id argue it but I think Id be waisting my time.
 
nbrans said:
I'm not a subscriber to the "Garnett = championship" idea, but this would be the potential lineup:

PG: Bibby, Hart, Price
SG: Martin, Garcia
SF: Artest, Garcia
PF: Garnett, KT
C: Miller, Sampson (hopefully free agent/draftee added in offseason)

That bench struggles mightily.

That's where we've lost a majority of our games so far this year and it would continue to be problematic.

The major benefit I'd see with Garnett is it allows Bibby to open up. He doesn't have to play PG and allows Garnett to set up the team. It also masks a lot of his defensive problems.

But, again, it isn't realistic one way or the other.

The trade it would take would require a young guy, draft pick, Bibby and Miller... in my opinion.
 
playmaker0017 said:
That bench struggles mightily.

That's where we've lost a majority of our games so far this year and it would continue to be problematic.

The major benefit I'd see with Garnett is it allows Bibby to open up. He doesn't have to play PG and allows Garnett to set up the team. It also masks a lot of his defensive problems.

But, again, it isn't realistic one way or the other.

The trade it would take would require a young guy, draft pick, Bibby and Miller... in my opinion.

The bench was struggling in part because 1) Garcia hadn't come along like he has now and 2) the starters were struggling so much they weren't helping the bench much.

In this scenario you have a 7/8 man rotation. When Bibby sits move Martin/Garcia/Artest to the point and forget about the backup point guards. Play KT and backup-center-to-be-named later. Play the starters 35 minutes each, play Garcia 30 off the bench backing up 3 positions and divide 13 minutes each between KT and backup-center-to-be-named later.

God forbid someone go down with an injury, but it's worth the risk.
 
Yoda said:
any team with Reef or Thomas in the starting lineup will never amount to anything.

I think that's just dead wrong.

No team constructed that requires Reef/Thomas to be defensive stoppers will amount to anything. Just as any team that requires Miller to be a primary stopper isn't going to succeed.

I believe we've solved a lot of our problems with the addition of Artest. His presence is inspiring other players to at least man up and make an effort. This is allowing our defense to perform admirably.

As for you Bibby thoughts, I think you are wrong. Id argue it but I think Id be waisting my time.

I didn't really have "Bibby thoughts". I said it would be easier to trade Bibby than it would be to make the proposed trade.

At this point, I wouldn't be an advocate of trading Bibby. He's an outside threat and we need that. If he just stays in front of his man, he's going to do a lot towards our defensive output.
 
nbrans said:
The bench was struggling in part because 1) Garcia hadn't come along like he has now and 2) the starters were struggling so much they weren't helping the bench much.

1) Garcia is still hot/cold. He's definitely better.
2) Yes, our starters were inefficient a lot of the time - as is expected of a new team. They are hitting stride and I believe with Martin and Garcia coming into their own, this team is capable of standing toe-to-toe with almost every team in the league.

In this scenario you have a 7/8 man rotation. When Bibby sits move Martin/Garcia/Artest to the point and forget about the backup point guards. Play KT and backup-center-to-be-named later.

KT off the bench? Again?

God forbid someone go down with an injury, but it's worth the risk.

I think the real risk is not trying this new team out. Right now, even with our most reliable post scoring option playing hurt and our most experienced 2 on the bench ... we're 4-1 over our last 5.

The Ron Artest effect is impressive. I want to see how it plays out with these guys.

There is only one expendable piece, to me, this season: Kenny Thomas. A guy that is comfortable and content playing from the bench would be spectacular.
 
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