Old Trade Thread (no longer need to post all trades here)

[Kings113]

Until K-Mart proves he can stay healthy (like for most of the rest this season, or the full rest of the season), I don't want him or his contract. He's fun to watch when he plays though.

We have a shotblocker and rebounder in Brian Skinner (March-April last season, on occasion this season (because of Rick) ). Rick doesn't play him enough or with regularity. We do need another defensive big though, with athleticism would be good too. Plenty out there, the deal just needs to be done.

 

[Kev.in]

Kenyon is marginally better than Shareef? LMAO. More like-much better than Shareef and Kenny. Shotblocking-Kenyon. Defense-Kenyon. Athleticism-Kenyon. Rebounding-Kenyon(well maybe not vs Kenny). It's not even if he's marginally better, it's that he fits better. This team has a ton of talent, our record should be reversed. But we have no shotblocker/rebounder/athletic post defender up front and that will lose you plenty of games.

If we get him, we still don't have a shotblocker/rebounder because Martin is mediocre in those departments and his man-to-man defense is overrated. If you've ever seen him try to stick one of those superstar power forwards (Dirk, KG, Duncan, Brand, etc) then you're usually seeing him completely overmatched.

But he's got flashy dunks and when he does block a shot, he sends it into the stands and when he gets one of his 7.5 rebounds a game, he's going to really grab it with some vigor. So he has a nice style to his game and you want him on the Kings. That's ok, but don't get too hyped up and convince yourself that he's could come here and start piling up double-doubles and that a 6'8" big man not named Ben Wallace is going to solve our problems with contesting shots at the rim. It's wishful thinking. A guy is available and suddenly people are talking like he's an All-Star, just because he gets paid like one.

 

[BMiller52]

Kenyon would probably grab 8 rebounds here just because Brad is no Camby. Not to mention he completely OWNED Dirk last night. I just think he's the best we could get and we have to get something fast. Also, the nuggets want to move NeNe. Maybe we could get them to toss him in?

 

[Bricklayer]

Kenyon would probably grab 8 rebounds here just because Brad is no Camby. Not to mention he completely OWNED Dirk last night. I just think he's the best we could get and we have to get something fast. Also, the nuggets want to move NeNe. Maybe we could get them to toss him in?

The Nuggets don't want to move Nene. Everybody else wants them to move him, and the Nuggets may or may not listen for the right deal. Their biggest concern there is whether they can pay him. And clearing off Martin's megacontract and minutes may actually be a move to commit to Nene next season.

These are the remaining years of Kenyon's contract:
05-06 $10.6 mil
06-07 $11.8 mil
07-08 $13.0 mil
08-09 $14.2 mil
09-10 $15.4 mil
10-11 $16.6 mil (player option)

Kenyon's numbers this year: 14.0pts 6.7rebs

And one bad knee for a plyer that depends on athleticism to make up for lack of size.

By the end of that deal it could be one of the very worst in the NBA.

 

[nbrans]

The Nuggets don't want to move Nene. Everybody else wants them to move him, and the Nuggets may or may not listen for the right deal. Their biggest concern there is whether they can pay him. And clearing off Martin's megacontract and minutes may actually be a move to commit to Nene next season.

These are the remaining years of Kenyon's contract:
05-06 $10.6 mil
06-07 $11.8 mil
07-08 $13.0 mil
08-09 $14.2 mil
09-10 $15.4 mil
10-11 $16.6 mil (player option)

Kenyon's numbers this year: 14.0pts 6.7rebs

And one bad knee for a plyer that depends on athleticism to make up for lack of size.

By the end of that deal it could be one of the very worst in the NBA.

Don't forget that Kenyon is completely insane and has one of the most disruptive posses in the league.

No thanks.

 

[bozzwell]

I am going to make a trade oriented prediction here:

- Artest will "screw us" out of the high lottery pick, by willing this team on to either 8 spot or we will miss PO's by a hair. Bye, bye top 10 pick in a "meh" draft.

- Martin will continue writing the ticket that will get Bonzi out of town. If Bonzi is not traded by 23rd, he will _not_ be resigned. Quite simply, he will be too expensive despite the fact that he is our No1 rebounder and a fan favorite.

Now, assuming that I am some sort of Oracle that you trust , what is the best possible deal we can get for Bonzi and our 1st. Take into account out glaring need for an interior defender/rebounder and let's look at the teams that need Bonzi/Bonzi's expiring contract and have need that can be addressed by "low" lottery pick or a pick in the teens...

I came up with nothing worth a post, hence the question.

 

[Bricklayer]

As a starter this year:

Kenyon Martin: 29.4min 14.1pts (.492 FG% .718 FT%) 6.8reb 1.5ast 0.8stl 1.2blk
Shareef Abdur: 35.0min 16.0pts (.543 FG% .795 FT%) 6.2reb 3.0ast 0.8stl 0.9blk
Kenny Thomas: 35.7min 12.4pts (.491 FG% .714 FT%) 9.7reb 2.6ast 1.2stl 0.3blk

Take your pick.

 

[Kings113]

ESPN said Nuggs want to move Nene now, but yeah, who knows

 

[nbrans]

ESPN said Nuggs want to move Nene now, but yeah, who knows

I think Plan A is trade Kenyon, re-sign Nene. Plan B is trade Nene at the deadline. Plan C is hope for a S&T.

 

[ParniValjak]

Kenyon is marginally better than Shareef? LMAO. More like-much better than Shareef and Kenny. Shotblocking-Kenyon. Defense-Kenyon. Athleticism-Kenyon. Rebounding-Kenyon(well maybe not vs Kenny). It's not even if he's marginally better, it's that he fits better. This team has a ton of talent, our record should be reversed. But we have no shotblocker/rebounder/athletic post defender up front and that will lose you plenty of games.

Kenyon is a better shot blocker but he is hardly an awsome shotblocker as you described him above. A career 1.3 bpg is hardly an awsome number. Yes he is better defender than both Reef and Kenny.

Kenyon is a pretty average rebounder no matter how much you sugar coat it. His career average is 7.5rpg compared to Reef's 8rpg and Kenny's 7.3 rpg. I would take Kenny's rebounding over Kenyon's every day of the week and twice on sunday. Please don't insult our intelligence by saying that K-Mart is playing next to Camby so his rebounding numbers are down. Who exactly was center in NJ while K-Mart was there????? Hardly a beast and K-Mart still couldn't average 10rpg for a season and that was in a pee weak East.

All that and not to mention that K-Mart is getting the MAX. Yes thats right he signed a MAX contract that runs forever. MAX contract for a player of that caliber is bad enough but when you take into the account that he had a microfracture surgery (Yes the same on that Webber, Mashburn and Amare had) and that contract becomes that much uglier. There is a reason why there aren't so many takers for Martin which you seem to overlook.

 

[BMiller52]

Whatever, I think that when we are getting owned in the paint over and over again you all will think different. Really, WHO COULD WE GET that would would do those things for our team? None of this KG garbage either, he isn't going anywhere. Kenyon is the only player on the block who can do that stuff for us, not to mention we'd probably be able to get Watson with him.


Edit: And yeah, I get it. You guys hate Kenyon Martin and think he's garbage/trash. Sucks for you, I'm done arguing about it.

 

[Kev.in]

Why are you so emotionally attached to this guy?

It doesn't matter if there is someone that we can think of right now, or if we come up with a solution later on. You seem to be in a panic about the chance to get this guy, as if there will never ever be another big man available ever again unless with think of someone right now this instant.

I will bring up KG. I think it's a better option to go after him than it is to cripple the cap and risk the chance that we can't extend Martin and/or Garcia. I'd rather try to dump as much salary as possible (ie Thomas, Abdur-Rahim, Williamson, Skinner) to make a run at KG as a free agent. I'd rather give up the first round pick for Darko. I'd rather see if the Jazz want to ship Boozer out as soon as he proves he is going to actually be able to play. At least he's proven he can clear some defensive boards. I'd rather pester Danny Ainge about Kendrick Perkins and Al Jefferson. The Kings might even be able to address the shotblocking/rebounding need through the draft. Kenyon Martin is pretty low on the list of potential impact big men for the Kings.

 

[BMiller52]

Sorry but we aren't getting KG. If Mchale trades him, he'll trade him to Indy for Tinsley and O'neal+a pick who are out for most of the rest of the year, tank, get Lamarcus Aldridge, and come back with a roster of in 2006:
Tinsley
Mccants
Davis(can he play the 3?)
Jermaine
Aldridge.


Darko is trash, there's a reason he's never played/never will.
Boozer "My hamstring hurts!" Translation: Boozgotpaid
Why would Ainge give up two shotblocking/rebounding athletic bigs with lots of potential? We have nothing to offer them.
The draft: It'll take a few years
Garnett: Contract basically twice the size of Kenyon's and not a free agent for a few years

So really, name somebody we can get. Be realistic. Heck, just name non stars that we MIGHT have the pieces to trade for.

 

[Kev.in]

You don't like Boozer's contract, but you're okay with Kenyon's?

I don't understand how, in one post, you can say the roster has so much talent and that our record should be reversed, then turn around and say that we don't have anything to offer for Perkins or Jefferson.

I also don't understand where you're getting the idea that Minnesota (who has a better record than us) is going to get LaMarcus Aldridge.

You're all over the place on this Kenyon Martin thing.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, we ain't getting Jefferson either.

I would say the untouchables for us right now at PF are:

D. Howard
Duncan
Dirk
Jefferson
Amare
Gasol (probably)
Sheed
Bosh (probably, unless he wants to go)
J. O'Neal (probably, seems to be some dissatisfaction amongst Indy fans at least)
Okafor

Everybody else...maybe at least a chance. (The Garnett thing of course being entirely dependant on Minnesota. But they are falling apart and under tremendous pressure + KG does not look happy).

 

[foretaz]

As a starter this year:

Kenyon Martin: 29.4min 14.1pts (.492 FG% .718 FT%) 6.8reb 1.5ast 0.8stl 1.2blk
Shareef Abdur: 35.0min 16.0pts (.543 FG% .795 FT%) 6.2reb 3.0ast 0.8stl 0.9blk
Kenny Thomas: 35.7min 12.4pts (.491 FG% .714 FT%) 9.7reb 2.6ast 1.2stl 0.3blk

Take your pick.

hmmmm....tell u what....why dont u do a similar analysis between artest and peja....i think u will find it doesnt come out looking a whole lot different....

are we to assume theyre about the same players, as well???

cmon brick...ur too smart for this....

u can argue 6'9" and 240 is undersized, though i dont think it would be a very good argument....

u can argue hes a risk with his knee.....though jason kidd would probably be proof that hes not....

u can argue he has a large contract...but large compared to what??? its not that different from chandler or dalembert or any other player thats been mentioned....and kenyon actually plays on both sides of the ball....i think thats a concept that seems to be missed here....hes a stud on both sides of the ball....

most importantly he would bring an attitude and a presence on the defensive side similar to that of artest....something a lot of kings fans seem to be immune to since they like to discuss the offensive stats of a player....

KT and SAR are half the ball players Martin is....the offensive half....considering he makes twice as much as they do, it would seem to be relatively appropriate....

ill say it again....a front line of artest, martin, and miller would be very, very good....on both ends....ur talking about 3 guys that were all-stars in 2004...

 

[BMiller52]

No what I'm saying is IF Mchale was smart and he decided to trade KG, he would trade him for Tinsley and Jermaine O'neal(it works). They're both injured and that Minnesota team would have a hard time winning another game this season without them/Garnett. They'd quickly slip to one of the worst teams in the league, where they could grab Lamarcus Aldridge. Then next year, O'neal and Tinsley would be healthy and their line up would be like this:

Tinsley
Mccants
Davis(if he can play the 3)
O'neal(out for pretty much the rest of the season)
Aldridge

I'm sure if he said KG was on the block plenty of teams would come calling, and Indy would probably be one of them. Mchale could probably get that for KG and since those guys are out for basically the rest of the season, they'd slip pretty fast but be fine next year. Basically what I'm pointing out is that there are teams that could make much better offers or offers that make much more sense for the Twolves.

Boozer hasn't played since he got paid. He's a bum+plus he's more injured than Kenyon(and making more).

None of our players make sense for the celtics. You obviously want to keep Brad, Bibby, Artest, and the 2 kids. Boston's set at the 2/3(wally+pierce). Our players we're willing to trade( assuming they're: Brian, Shareef, Bonzi etc.) just don't make sense for the celtics plan to go young.


I just don't get who else we could realistically get. Point out some names and say why those teams would do a deal, and your goal is keeping Artest, Bibby, Miller, Martin, and Garcia.


Edit: I was posting around the same time as foretaz, but he makes some real good points.

 

[foretaz]

guys...i dont mean to pee in ur wheaties....but seriously, the sooner u drop the garnett notion, the sooner u will be able to move on to reality...

because garnett in a kings uniform is pure fantasy....and it has nothing to do with whether or not the wolves choose to trade him or not....

the kings do not have the ability to get him....they dont have the pieces, pure and simple....ur simply kidding urself if u believe otherwise....

there are many other teams out there with far better pieces that would come calling if KG were put on the market....

its like wanting a 30 dollar steak and only having 10 dollars in ur pocket....meanwhile there are people waiting in line with a pocketful of hundreds....

 

[GoGoGadget]

its like wanting a 30 dollar steak and only having 10 dollars in ur pocket....meanwhile there are people waiting in line with a pocketful of hundreds....

Anything's possible.

I could get a $30 steak for free in about two minutes flat if I tried hard enough.

 

[Kings113]

I've never really thought the Kings have had any kind of a chance to get Garnett.

 

[BMiller52]

guys...i dont mean to pee in ur wheaties....but seriously, the sooner u drop the garnett notion, the sooner u will be able to move on to reality...

because garnett in a kings uniform is pure fantasy....and it has nothing to do with whether or not the wolves choose to trade him or not....

the kings do not have the ability to get him....they dont have the pieces, pure and simple....ur simply kidding urself if u believe otherwise....

there are many other teams out there with far better pieces that would come calling if KG were put on the market....

its like wanting a 30 dollar steak and only having 10 dollars in ur pocket....meanwhile there are people waiting in line with a pocketful of hundreds....

Yeah, I agree. We don't have the talent to get him and even if we did, there's still other deals that make more sense. Not only do we not have the talent, even if we did the pieces wouldn't fit for Minny. I'm pretty sure that Pacers deal I mentioned could work, and it'd put Minny back on top soon(not to mention a cool Minny/Sac, Artest/JO rivalry). Or if they REALLY wanted to go young, Boston has the players if they want to put a contender around Pierce. There are just plenty of other teams(probably atleast 10) that could make better/more sensible offers for minnesota than we could.

 

[foretaz]

Anything's possible.

I could get a $30 steak for free in about two minutes flat if I tried hard enough.

no...anything isnt possible....in some cases desire can overcome certain hurdles...

but in this case there would be many suitors with far more assets and just as much desire....

and if u think the kings would have a greater desire, than say someone like isiah thomas, then ur sorely mistaken....and isiah has many more tools than the kings do to get KG...what do u think hes been waiting on for so long???

 

[Kings113]

Sorry but we aren't getting KG. If Mchale trades him, he'll trade him to Indy for Tinsley and O'neal+a pick who are out for most of the rest of the year, tank, get Lamarcus Aldridge, and come back with a roster of in 2006:
Tinsley
Mccants
Davis(can he play the 3?)
Jermaine
Aldridge.


Darko is trash, there's a reason he's never played/never will.
Boozer "My hamstring hurts!" Translation: Boozgotpaid
Why would Ainge give up two shotblocking/rebounding athletic bigs with lots of potential? We have nothing to offer them.
The draft: It'll take a few years
Garnett: Contract basically twice the size of Kenyon's and not a free agent for a few years

So really, name somebody we can get. Be realistic. Heck, just name non stars that we MIGHT have the pieces to trade for.

How is Darko trash if the guy has never gotten a chance to be in a regular rotation so far? He's played in garbage time for his whole career. Only times he didn't is in April when guys rest and play less for the playoffs coming up.

04-05: 37 games, 6.9 MPG. Oh yeah!

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/darko_milicic/index.html

I don't think anyone can say anything definite about Darko because he simply hasn't gotten PT.

 

[GoGoGadget]

and if u think the kings would have a greater desire, than say someone like isiah thomas, then ur sorely mistaken....and isiah has many more tools than the kings do to get KG...what do u think hes been waiting on for so long???

The mess in New York is a little too far gone for me to assume that perhaps there's been a method to any of Isiah's madness.

 

[BMiller52]

How is Darko trash if the guy has never gotten a chance to be in a regular rotation so far? He's played in garbage time for his whole career. Only times he didn't is in April when guys rest and play less for the playoffs coming up.

04-05: 37 games, 6.9 MPG. Oh yeah!

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/darko_milicic/index.html

I don't think anyone can say anything definite about Darko because he simply hasn't gotten PT.

Well there is a good chance he's just bad. He's been through 2 coaches and hasn't gotten any PT, he hasn't looked spectacular when I've seen him in garbage time either. He could be good, but we would still have to give up Bonzi for him atleast since he was a 2nd overall pick and there's a good chance he's just not good. Do you honestly feel comfortable giving up Bonzi for a player that might just be a bad player?

 

[foretaz]

How is Darko trash if the guy has never gotten a chance to be in a regular rotation so far? He's played in garbage time for his whole career. Only times he didn't is in April when guys rest and play less for the playoffs coming up.

04-05: 37 games, 6.9 MPG. Oh yeah!

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/darko_milicic/index.html

I don't think anyone can say anything definite about Darko because he simply hasn't gotten PT.

darko isnt trash....darko is a product of the media....if the kings could get him, they would do wise to do so....unlike some think on here, he would come in and be starting alongside miller very soon...and by very soon, im talking a few games...not a few seasons...yes...he is that good...

but, again, i dont think the kings have what it takes....though theyre not too far off....if...and its a big if...the pistons would be interested in bonzi to help with their title push....and then clear capspace....

bonzi, for darko and arroyo...the kings would probably have to throw in hart...which is no harm done....but the kicker would be a first round draft choice....i dont think the kings first rounder this year will get it done-its not high enuff...

now, they might take bonzi, garcia and the first for arroyo and darko....and that would be an interesting decision for the kings....very interesting....

 

[Bricklayer]

hmmmm....tell u what....why dont u do a similar analysis between artest and peja....i think u will find it doesnt come out looking a whole lot different....

are we to assume theyre about the same players, as well???

cmon brick...ur too smart for this....

u can argue 6'9" and 240 is undersized, though i dont think it would be a very good argument....

u can argue hes a risk with his knee.....though jason kidd would probably be proof that hes not....

u can argue he has a large contract...but large compared to what??? its not that different from chandler or dalembert or any other player thats been mentioned....and kenyon actually plays on both sides of the ball....i think thats a concept that seems to be missed here....hes a stud on both sides of the ball....

most importantly he would bring an attitude and a presence on the defensive side similar to that of artest....something a lot of kings fans seem to be immune to since they like to discuss the offensive stats of a player....

KT and SAR are half the ball players Martin is....the offensive half....considering he makes twice as much as they do, it would seem to be relatively appropriate....

ill say it again....a front line of artest, martin, and miller would be very, very good....on both ends....ur talking about 3 guys that were all-stars in 2004...

Do you just have an affinity for any and all NBA *******s or what?

Kenyon Martin has been horribly overrated over his entire career. But now he's added horribly overpaid and in danger of physical disintigration to his list. He's also BTW more 6'8" than 6'9". He does not suck. He's a starter. But he is not remotely a difference maker. nad he's pad like one.

His does not solve our rebounding problems.

He is NOT a big shotblocker.

He is NOT a strong post player.

He has little to no ability to guard 5s. He's a 4/3 not a 4/5 and can't take the toughest frontcourt matchup.

He is very much in the same class with the players we have. Kenny rebounds. SAR is the professional scorer. Martin has the defensive rep. None are complete. None are elite, or close to it at this point. Only the guys we have now aren't being paid MAXIMUM money for the next 6 yrs. That's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Kings113]

Well there is a good chance he's just bad. He's been through 2 coaches and hasn't gotten any PT, he hasn't looked spectacular when I've seen him in garbage time either. He could be good, but we would still have to give up Bonzi for him atleast since he was a 2nd overall pick and there's a good chance he's just not good. Do you honestly feel comfortable giving up Bonzi for a player that might just be a bad player?

Whatever. I still feel the same.

To answer your question, yeah, I'd say so.

While it was just pre-season, did you see any of his this year? He looked really good. Seriously.

 

[BMiller52]

I've only seen him a couple times this season when the pistons were on national TV and blew out a team. I think when they blew out the knicks, he came in and made like 2 buckets but didn't really do anything else.

 

[Bricklayer]

darko isnt trash....darko is a product of the media....if the kings could get him, they would do wise to do so....unlike some think on here, he would come in and be starting alongside miller very soon...and by very soon, im talking a few games...not a few seasons...yes...he is that good...

but, again, i dont think the kings have what it takes....though theyre not too far off....if...and its a big if...the pistons would be interested in bonzi to help with their title push....and then clear capspace....

bonzi, for darko and arroyo...the kings would probably have to throw in hart...which is no harm done....but the kicker would be a first round draft choice....i dont think the kings first rounder this year will get it done-its not high enuff...

now, they might take bonzi, garcia and the first for arroyo and darko....and that would be an interesting decision for the kings....very interesting....

That's just delusional. There's not a team in the league that's going to give Detroit a major starter AND a lottery pick for Darko. And we can all wait. He'll rot on Detroit's bench, and then one day or the other, by Detroit's choice or when Darko inevitably leaves them, he'll be available.

If Detroit is seriously waiting for that kind of offer, they will wait forever and get nothing at all. But I sincerely doubt they are. An either/or maybe. Not a both.