Oh Boy, Kings look set with players

[ParniValjak]

let me clarify... I never said he has to be a star...

However I think some on this board think he is going to "save" us. I look at Woods more like a Keon type of player. Only problem I see is we don't have the same core around him.

But still he can be a good pickup if used right.

Keon was a legit NBA player who was getting serious minutes and having an impact mainly off the bench. He has average more minutes in his rookie season that Woods at any stage of his career (other than 04-05 when he average 15mpg).

Now some people here want us to believe that Woods will be a major rotation player but for as long as Miller, SAR and Thomas are around there will not be enough minutes for him. Woods will not be any more used than Skinner was with us last year. He just simply is not good enough to command regular minutes on a play-off team. Hell he can't even do it on a lottery team.

I see Woods for what he is and that is a solid 3rd C on the roster. Your 12th/13th man that can come in occasionally and give you a little bit. He doesn't improve our interior defence as some would like us to believe. He is a slight upgrade on Sampson.

I am in no way against this signing. Its a low risk move. Minimal money for a player that has the skillset that we could use but for people to say that all of a sudden Woods makes us better is just laughable. He doesn't address anything becuase more than likely he will be stuck to the end of the bench.

If he was a Keon Clark, I would be over the moon because that would be exactly the sort of player we could use off the bench. Someone that will give you some reall energy, defence, rebounding and shot blocking off the bench for 20-25mpg. Unfortunately for us, Woods is just not that sort of player.

 

[CruzDude]

Are you serious cruz? What facts do you base this on? Because he has sucked over his entire career. So just wondering why you think all the sudden he will be a star in SACTO.

I never used words "sudden" and "star" about Woods at all. I said "if he responds every game..." He is getting into a totally different coaching style, different set of players and different attitude about him. "Sucked" his whole career?? don't think so. When his minutes were up he did ok (ok ? star) but was not used or coached as he could have been (his words).

He is 7-2 with good attitude and eager. So lets give him a break and see what he does.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Personally, i disagree that Woods will be on the bench and that he will be used more than just 10 minutes a game. I am not saying that he is taking over for Ben Wallace or anything, but he does a lot better with minutes. Muss also likes to go to his bench a lot. Being 7'2" doesn't hurt either and i doubt that a guy this size that has the defensive mindset will be sitting on the bench. I doubt Pot gets in before him. Woods is our backup C and thats that. There were better options, but they disappeared. Woods was not the first choice, but he isn't the worst either. He will help, but to what degree remains to be seen and it rests upon his shoulders. It's easy to say that you do better with minutes, now he has to go and prove it.

 

[ParniValjak]

Personally, i disagree that Woods will be on the bench and that he will be used more than just 10 minutes a game. I am not saying that he is taking over for Ben Wallace or anything, but he does a lot better with minutes. Muss also likes to go to his bench a lot. Being 7'2" doesn't hurt either and i doubt that a guy this size that has the defensive mindset will be sitting on the bench. I doubt Pot gets in before him. Woods is our backup C and thats that. There were better options, but they disappeared. Woods was not the first choice, but he isn't the worst either. He will help, but to what degree remains to be seen and it rests upon his shoulders. It's easy to say that you do better with minutes, now he has to go and prove it.

Muss is like any other coach that likes to win. He will play proven talent over unproven one if he has a chance. Woods might get used a bit more BUT Muss won't give him 20mpg. Not while he has Miller, SAR and Thomas fit.

Muss is not too different from Adelman in terms of his rotations. He has 8 guys he places a lot of trust with and occasionally he goes 9 deep. Thats what he has done in GS and thats what he will do in Sacramento. He won't go deeper than 9. He, like every other coach likes veterans so expect to see Miller, SAR, Ron, Martin, Bibby, Thomas and Salmons to see a lot of game time. 8th spot is pretty much up for grabs at this point in time. I suspect it will be Garcia simply on balance.

 

[Kings113]

Yeah, 8 or 9 deep is what the usual will be. 10? Probably not too much in a regular game situation.

I don't think Woods will get 20 MPG, more like 15-18 MPG.

 

[BigSong]

its sad, but it seems at this point Woods has become our version of Renaldo Balkman.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Except Woods is over 7ft tall.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I find it funny that we signed players that have "unusual" names. POOH Jeter, Salmons (fish), and Woods (as in a forest). What a different offseason this has been.

 

[Kings113]

its sad, but it seems at this point Woods has become our version of Renaldo Balkman.

How? Balkman and Woods are completely different type of players. Interested in the reasoning for that statement.

 

[BigWaxer]

Keon was a legit NBA player who was getting serious minutes and having an impact mainly off the bench. He has average more minutes in his rookie season that Woods at any stage of his career (other than 04-05 when he average 15mpg).

Now some people here want us to believe that Woods will be a major rotation player but for as long as Miller, SAR and Thomas are around there will not be enough minutes for him. Woods will not be any more used than Skinner was with us last year. He just simply is not good enough to command regular minutes on a play-off team. Hell he can't even do it on a lottery team.

I see Woods for what he is and that is a solid 3rd C on the roster. Your 12th/13th man that can come in occasionally and give you a little bit. He doesn't improve our interior defence as some would like us to believe. He is a slight upgrade on Sampson.

I am in no way against this signing. Its a low risk move. Minimal money for a player that has the skillset that we could use but for people to say that all of a sudden Woods makes us better is just laughable. He doesn't address anything becuase more than likely he will be stuck to the end of the bench.

If he was a Keon Clark, I would be over the moon because that would be exactly the sort of player we could use off the bench. Someone that will give you some reall energy, defence, rebounding and shot blocking off the bench for 20-25mpg. Unfortunately for us, Woods is just not that sort of player.

Oh I agree Caro... I am just trying to picture Woods in the best case scenerio. He could fit that Keon roll... I agree the minutes are gonna be very hard to come by. OH and I am not saying LW is on the same level as Keon. Don't get me wrong on this.

I like his size, can't we just stick him out there like a Tree Trunk Stopper?

 

[BigWaxer]

I never used words "sudden" and "star" about Woods at all. I said "if he responds every game..." He is getting into a totally different coaching style, different set of players and different attitude about him. "Sucked" his whole career?? don't think so. When his minutes were up he did ok (ok ? star) but was not used or coached as he could have been (his words).

He is 7-2 with good attitude and eager. So lets give him a break and see what he does.

I agree there CruzD. I am not bashing him, I am more bashing the moves/non-moves and saying this was not a good offseason IMO. Woods was just part of this bad off-season. Now toss in a player that truely fills our needs and I wouldn't mind that we picked up Salmons/Woods or drafted doob. Some may say Woods will fill our needs but I don't see who/what/where he is gonna get minutes.

Who knows maybe this is the stop where he finally gets it. When I look at his stats from last year... games where he gets 18+ min I see a lot of inconsistant play. Now inconsistant can also in some cases mean potential with the right coach.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/loren_woods/game_by_game_stats.html

Don't want to turn this thread into a LW thread. Its about the fact we haven't filled our needs yet and we are no better off then our first round exit in June. My contention is we are worse then in June.

Well let me restate that. Kmart has a lot on his plate this year, I will leave it at that. I am expecting major things from him.

 

[SacTownKid]

We don't even know what our system is....

I have never been non suportive so WTH... Some people want to put WOODS as a great off season pick-up... Read through the threads... WAIT here is the best support... The truth.

Career averages:
11.6mpg .418fg% .642%FTP (WT) 0.6blk(from a "BLOCK MASTER") 3.3 total RB... 2.6 ppg...

Okay stats speak for themselves. This is a great player in the making that I must be missing. Sorry I apoligize for not seeing his potential, 5 years of doing nothing. Who knows maybe MUSS changes/motivates him.

It's obvious by reading the boards this seems / appears like fans are saying this is the major off season move.

Thats my problem with it all. Woods is a 10-15 min a game player at best and he will continue to perform the same.

AKA he doesn't help us at all

Looking at the last 2 years is much more fair. Those were the only times he even got somewhat consistent minutes. I posted the per48's, check it out.

C'mon, Loren only does a few things well, the things we need, don't take those away from him too.

 

[BigWaxer]

Hey Sact T read my recent posts may clear some things up.... I was testy this morning.

 

[ovrush]

If our offseason is done, I have to say it's probably the worst GP has been through as the Kings GM.

Going into the offseason, our stated goals were to 1. find a new coach 2. resign Bonzi 3. find a serviceable backup big for the MLE.

What we did:

Signed Muss as our new coach, I actually was pleased with this move, which easily was the best of the offseason. I think it was no small feat for GP to sidestep the Wiz push.

Offered our MLE to Pryzbilla who declined, offered our MLE to Claxton who declined, Offered Bonzi more money than anyone else and he declined. I guess these moves wind up looking very unlucky, but i have to raise my eyebrows at the fact that Pryzbilla is going back to a place he hated for roughly the same amount we offered, and things went SO sour with Bonzi's agent that not only did he not sign the most lucrative contract offered him, but we flat out walked away instead of just waiting out his agent and getting him for what we offered. These are all little things that I never would've expected to happen to GP.

What did we ultimately wind up with? We offered more money than anyone else for a career backup 1,2,3. I mean I guess it's hard to find that "versatility" but are we trying to gain a monopoly on these type of guys to up their trade value later or something? When you say versatile swingman I look at our roster and see Garcia, Salmons, Artest, Martin, Douby. This isn't even counting that Corliss and Kenny Thomas are sized best to play the 3.

The second signing is a defensive 5 with who was let go by his previous team and persued by very few people (See Jamal Sampson singing of 2005 or Greg Ostertag Signing of 2004) I guess the guy could turn out to be a Scott Pollard, but Pollard was in his second or third year when we signed him i beleive not in his fifth year.

After the playoffs last year, I really thought we were on the cusp of being contenders again, my question is does anyone leave the offseason with more optimism than they entered it if things remain the same?

 

[Kings113]

If our offseason is done, I have to say it's probably the worst GP has been through as the Kings GM.

Going into the offseason, our stated goals were to 1. find a new coach 2. resign Bonzi 3. find a serviceable backup big for the MLE.

What we did:

Signed Muss as our new coach, I actually was pleased with this move, which easily was the best of the offseason. I think it was no small feat for GP to sidestep the Wiz push.

Offered our MLE to Pryzbilla who declined, offered our MLE to Claxton who declined, Offered Bonzi more money than anyone else and he declined. I guess these moves wind up looking very unlucky, but i have to raise my eyebrows at the fact that Pryzbilla is going back to a place he hated for roughly the same amount we offered, and things went SO sour with Bonzi's agent that not only did he not sign the most lucrative contract offered him, but we flat out walked away instead of just waiting out his agent and getting him for what we offered. These are all little things that I never would've expected to happen to GP.

What did we ultimately wind up with? We offered more money than anyone else for a career backup 1,2,3. I mean I guess it's hard to find that "versatility" but are we trying to gain a monopoly on these type of guys to up their trade value later or something? When you say versatile swingman I look at our roster and see Garcia, Salmons, Artest, Martin, Douby. This isn't even counting that Corliss and Kenny Thomas are sized best to play the 3.

The second signing is a defensive 5 with who was let go by his previous team and persued by very few people (See Jamal Sampson singing of 2005 or Greg Ostertag Signing of 2004) I guess the guy could turn out to be a Scott Pollard, but Pollard was in his second or third year when we signed him i beleive not in his fifth year.

After the playoffs last year, I really thought we were on the cusp of being contenders again, my question is does anyone leave the offseason with more optimism than they entered it if things remain the same?

Petrie tried to get the bigger and more quality FAs, but that passed and didn't work in our favor, so he had to go a different route. It came down to Detroit and Portland for Pryzbilla, he chose Portland over Detroit. Pryzbilla said himself he wanted to be loyal, and changed his mind in July about possibly going back to Portland. Claxton was obvious.

Petrie waited the whole month of July on Bonzi, Petrie said himself it came to a conclusion where things just weren't going to work out, and had to move on. Bonzi was effecting us from making moves for that whole month.

Obviously trades aren't out of possibility yet, the rest of the off-season, and of course until the deadline in Feb.

I don't think it's legit to judge last season to next season. I do think we will be significantly better though.

Ostertag - showed up to camp out of shape, was in Rick's dog-house for the year because of it.

Sampson - was never played by Rick outside of garbage time. He never got a chance. The guy showed he could play in charlotte as a defensive big off the bench, Adelman's system wouldn't of effected his play.

Kenny Thomas - is NOT best as an SF.

Douby - is not a swingman, he's purely a combo guard, and is what he will be.


Oh, and.....

 

[CruzDude]

So its Deja Vu all over again. I'm ok with what we got, which is:

C Brad, Woods, Pot, Williams
PF SAR, KT, Amundson
SF Ron, Cisco, Corliss
SG Martin, Douby, Hart
PG Bibby, Salmons, Price, Pooh

Pooh and Hart subtracted leaves 15 with maybe Williams getting in some NBDL time? IMHO at least.

 

[ovrush]

Petrie tried to get the bigger and more quality FAs, but that passed and didn't work in our favor, so he had to go a different route. It came down to Detroit and Portland for Pryzbilla, he chose Portland over Detroit. Pryzbilla said himself he wanted to be loyal, and changed his mind in July about possibly going back to Portland. Claxton was obvious.

Petrie waited the whole month of July on Bonzi, Petrie said himself it came to a conclusion where things just weren't going to work out, and had to move on. Bonzi was effecting us from making moves for that whole month.

I don't think it's legit to judge last season to next season. I do think we will be significantly better though.

Obviously trades aren't out of possibility yet, the rest of the off-season, and of course until the deadline in Feb.

Ostertag - showed up to camp out of shape, was in Rick's dog-house for the year because of it.

Sampson - was never played by Rick outside of garbage time. He never got a chance. The guy showed he could play in charlotte as a defensive big off the bench, Adelman's system wouldn't of effected his play.

Kenny Thomas - is NOT best as an SF.

Douby - is not a swingman, he's purely a combo guard, and is what he will be.

1. Part of my point was that I was dissapointed seeing those bigger free agents bypass the Kings when we were offering similar money. I'm used to seeing GP pull those rabbits from his hat

The Bonzi situation again my point was not necessarily that we lost him, but the way things went so terribly. Not only did we offer him more than anyone else, meaning we most probably could have just waited his agent out and signed him for that price, but we waited till a large segment of quality free agents were off the market we could have targeted with money we may have had earmarked for Bonzi. Then when we ultimately decided to move on we had to pay a marginal career backup more than anyone else was offering to land him.

Ostertag and Sampson were both billed as guys who would have the talent to be a defensive presense off the bench. Whether or not Adelman played them both were clearly not what they were advertized as. Now this year people are saying the same things about Loren Woods whose been in the league 5 years and never gotten off the bench for some of the worst teams in the league... how is this signing any different

fine, Doubie is a combo guard but we're still hearing about his versatility as a guy who can play the 1 or 2. I'm just curious where Salmon's gets his minutes if its over Douby at the 1/2, Garcia at the 1/2/3, or behind Artest who should seldom leave the floor. And why is it that people who were glad to see Bonzi go to let our younger guys develop are perfectly happy paying 25M for Salmons whose less talented to take minutes from Garica and Douby to develop?

Also my point wasn't that Kenny Thomas was a 3, more that he was sized to be a 3. Basically a cheap shot at a guy I don't like and irrelevant to the point I was making. Which simply was that this offseason has appeared to be a myriad of miscalculations and mistakes without a theme. If we're going younger why bother paying for Salmons? If we're trying to win now, why not find the money to keep Bonzi?

My point was since we're taking account of the offseason thus far is that in spite of my trust in Petrie I'm simply not seeing the direction we're going, and perhaps it's looking like he's slipping a bit.

That being said I'll be the first to say I was wrong if Woods turns into a Pollard like signing and Salmons into the next Maxwell/Delk/Bjax type of guy. I'm more prone to think a lot of those guys success came from having two of the best passing bigs in the game on the roster and a consummate MVP candidate starting at the 4, however.

I guess i could yawn back at you looking only at the details and ignoring the larger point but I won't..

 

[bajaden]

Bliss

I'm reluctant to even get into all this. So much of it is nonsense. I hear people saying that Williams at 6'10" and 215 is the big that might develop and that SAR is at 6'9" and 255 to small to play the position. Someone says that Wood's may be coachable and with a new attitude may just be of some help to the Kings. Another replies that so now you think that Wood's is suddenly going to be a superstar with the Kings. I say read the posts and actually let your brain absorb what the other person actually said before you open your mouth. Someone says if were going young, why did we sign Salmons. Last time I checked, Salmons is younger than Bonzi. Why did Petri sign Salmons instead of a big. Knowing Petri's past decisions, he always goes for the best talent for the money. I think he would rather have a good 1, 2, or 3 instead of a mediocre 4 or 5. Now we may disagree on how talented someone is, but were not making the decision. Personally, I suspect that Petri has a better handle on who's talented than I do.

As far as Petri being done, maybe its so, but I don't think so. Were loaded at the point/two guard position. I would not be shocked if Bibby is traded along with, well you pick your poison. Could even be Brad. Strangely, both those salary's add up to Garnets salary. Just last week Garnet voiced his displeasure with the T Wolves. Saying he wanted to move on, and sooner than later. He reminded everyone that he is 30 years old and maybe only has 4 to 5 years left to possibly win a championship. Wishful thinking on my part? Of course. Thats what we do at this time of the year.

 

[ezekielbear]

Loren's sort of got a bad rap, but, from nobody's fault from his own.

He had to transfer from Wake to Zona due to a WILD outburst rage in practice as a freshman where he attempted to attack fellow team members and coaching staff...out of no place.

And got into quite a few testy situations in Raptorland last year.

A bit risky personality for a 12th man. But, the Kings are no strangers to turning guys around.

Hope it works out.

 

[Greenspan 101]

Woods and Salmons...who knows? Kevin Martin is going to get better, and last year he was better than a semi-healthy Bonzi Wells anyway. Bonzi was awesome in the playoffs and made a great lasting impression, but let's be honest, the man is injury-prone.

Everyone look at the flipside for a change--Petrie facilitates overpaying Bonzi (relative to his market value), and Bonzi gets injured, or at least plays well below 100% to the point where Martin would start over him anyway. I guarantee these message boards would light up with "I told you so's."

I mean really, outside of Chicago and maybe the Hornets, did any other teams get very much better with offseason moves? If anything, I don't think the Kings lost ground within the conference due to personnel.

 

[Greenspan 101]

Okay, last note here, but it makes sense. Bonzi is like Junior Seau. Seau is a tough player, has had a great career, still has the desire, but is at the point where his body can't sustain a full season. Now he signs with the f'n Patriots, but HE IS GOING TO GET INJURED, meaning that his cost per game will increase with each game he has to sit out. Same with Bonzi. It sucks to see him go, but if I were Petrie, I wouldn't be thrilled about overpaying a player that will almost certainly miss a decent part of the season. Plus, he'd come off the bench behind KM in his recovery phase(s) anyway. It would certainly be different if he would be totally healthy or have a cheap contract, but as it stands, it would have been too much $ for those 20 minutes per game. Am I wrong? Oh well, done deal. We'll see how it pans out.

 

[Sac.Kings]

We made the right choice letting Bonzi go. Maybe you can't see it now, but the deal Bonzi wanted would have crippled the Kings in the long run. I think that if we sign another big man (Cato?) we would be set for the season. We do have too many players under contract though. Someone has got to go...

 

[CruzDude]

Okay, last note here, but it makes sense. Bonzi is like Junior Seau. Seau is a tough player, has had a great career, still has the desire, but is at the point where his body can't sustain a full season. Now he signs with the f'n Patriots, but HE IS GOING TO GET INJURED, meaning that his cost per game will increase with each game he has to sit out. Same with Bonzi..........

Great analogy!! like that. KM is going to suprise all of you who did not get a glimpse in Summer league. Woods IS the BIG ??? But Petrie has not blown it yet.

 

[Kings113]

I don't think we'll sign anymore FAs. Geoff said were done and tapped out on player exceptions. Trades aren't ruled out though, and to me, as well.

 

[vladetomiller]

Bonzi was great in the playoffs and no question about that, but it was mainly because of matchup problems the spurs had at those positions. Ron and bonzi are similar players who are stronger at the SG position and quicker at the SF position, which made it difficult for the spurs who dont have a good SF player and were managing with Manu and Bowen from the defensive point of view.

He knew that he was getting into a contract situation and gave the very best he can, but his career average has been at 12ppg and 46% FG. There is a reason why the man whom many say is the best GM ever traded Bonzi, there is a reason why 30 GMs are not running after bonzi now, cos he is not worth what his agent is asking for. if he is that great a player then he would have been getting phone calls the day free agent signings began.

I dont think the kings missed out much on the bonzi deal.

 

[ovrush]

Okay, last note here, but it makes sense. Bonzi is like Junior Seau. Seau is a tough player, has had a great career, still has the desire, but is at the point where his body can't sustain a full season. Now he signs with the f'n Patriots, but HE IS GOING TO GET INJURED, meaning that his cost per game will increase with each game he has to sit out. Same with Bonzi. It sucks to see him go, but if I were Petrie, I wouldn't be thrilled about overpaying a player that will almost certainly miss a decent part of the season. Plus, he'd come off the bench behind KM in his recovery phase(s) anyway. It would certainly be different if he would be totally healthy or have a cheap contract, but as it stands, it would have been too much $ for those 20 minutes per game. Am I wrong? Oh well, done deal. We'll see how it pans out.

I have to respectfully disagree with this analogy. Bonzi is 29 at the moment and will be 30 when the season starts. 30 is hardly a guaranteed injury prone age. For example, KG is 30 but many are lobbying to trade for him. Do we pay a guy the max whose 30? I mean by your definition KG is an injury waiting to happen at the ancient age of 30...

Another perspective, Brad Miller, Sharif Abdur Rahim, and Corlis Williamson were all born the same year, or earlier than Bonzi, Does this mean that these three guys are "at the point where their body's connot sustain a full season"? If so I think we're in real trouble with 2/5ths of our starting lineup expected to be injured for large chunks of the season. Also means Bibby only has a couple years left in the tank, and Artest only has 3 years of health left. Pretty alarming, maybe we should just trade our whole roster for draft choices to be certain we're safe from the dreaded 29 year old body break down.

"Bonzi was great in the playoffs and no question about that, but it was mainly because of matchup problems the spurs had at those positions. Ron and bonzi are similar players who are stronger at the SG position and quicker at the SF position, which made it difficult for the spurs who dont have a good SF player and were managing with Manu and Bowen from the defensive point of view. "

Manu is an All-Star and Bowen widely considered the best perimeter defender in the league, If Artest and Bonzi can give those two troubles there's no 2/3 combo in the league they couldn't give matchup nightmares to.


It's great that people here are being positive, but let's not completely throw logic out the window.

 

[SacTownKid]

I have to respectfully disagree with this analogy. Bonzi is 29 at the moment and will be 30 when the season starts. 30 is hardly a guaranteed injury prone age. For example, KG is 30 but many are lobbying to trade for him. Do we pay a guy the max whose 30? I mean by your definition KG is an injury waiting to happen at the ancient age of 30...

Another perspective, Brad Miller, Sharif Abdur Rahim, and Corlis Williamson were all born the same year, or earlier than Bonzi, Does this mean that these three guys are "at the point where their body's connot sustain a full season"? If so I think we're in real trouble with 2/5ths of our starting lineup expected to be injured for large chunks of the season. Also means Bibby only has a couple years left in the tank, and Artest only has 3 years of health left. Pretty alarming, maybe we should just trade our whole roster for draft choices to be certain we're safe from the dreaded 29 year old body break down.

"Bonzi was great in the playoffs and no question about that, but it was mainly because of matchup problems the spurs had at those positions. Ron and bonzi are similar players who are stronger at the SG position and quicker at the SF position, which made it difficult for the spurs who dont have a good SF player and were managing with Manu and Bowen from the defensive point of view. "

Manu is an All-Star and Bowen widely considered the best perimeter defender in the league, If Artest and Bonzi can give those two troubles there's no 2/3 combo in the league they couldn't give matchup nightmares to.


It's great that people here are being positive, but let's not completely throw logic out the window.

Exactly, Bowen was going up against two bulldozers and that is not what Bowen is expected to lockdown. Manu is also not a very physically strong player. Bonzi's superstardom was indeed partially the result of matchup problems. Bonzi is a 13 and 5 player. History shows that, and according to this cold FA market, one great playoff series doesn't mean you're going to get 10 million a year.

 

[Entity]

But never doing anything in the playoffs in your first 4 years and missing all of your 4th year with a knee surgure does incorporate 10 million a year. strage isn't it. NeNe must know something.

 

[Kings113]

It's based on the potential, bunch of flashes, and versatility Nene has shown up to this point. They're taking somewhat of a risk, but one that could pay off well.

 

[ezekielbear]

Artest and Bonzi especially matched up well with Manu and Bowen. And, while Bowen is one of the better defenders in the league, minus his 3pt shot...his offense is pretty easy to cover. He's not a hard defend.

But, it's just as easy they don't match up well with another team down the road.