Official Draft thread (merged)

BibityBobtyBoom · Jun 22, 2005

the nba and the players assoc. passed the collective bargaining thing, thus making a 19 year old age minimum, so does that mean g. green and bynum can't get drafted, or is it instilled later?

The videos were good and helped, but i don't think the kings will draft taft, i'm pretty sure if he fell that far, they wouldn't take him. If they did, i would be pretty mad.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

The new CBA wouldn't take effect until at least July 1st. This year's draft is covered under the rules of the old CBA, meaning 18 is the age limit and rookie deals are a guaranteed three years with a team option for a fourth.

In fact the new CBA may not take effect until a little way into July. The actual agreement has to be drawn up, which is a fairly lengthy process, and then signed. Hopefully it doesn't draw out the offseason. Petrie has a lot of work to do.

BibityBobtyBoom · Jun 22, 2005

so does the cba lessen the possiblity of a lock out or strengthen it, since it gives more cap room?

thesanityannex · Jun 22, 2005

funkykingston said:

Taft was just playing to not get hurt in his last season. Looks like his plan backfired on him if he actually slips down as far as projected.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

I'm not sure I understand your question. The reason that there WOULD have been a lockout is that no Collective Bargaining Agreement was in place by July 1st, when the last one expired. The fact that there is a new CBA in place means that there is zero chance of a lockout, at least for six more seasons.

I don't know, I just don't see it that way. Playing tentatively for a whole season is not a way to protect top pick status, it's a surefire way to lose it. If the reports/rumors are correct, Taft is getting his head handed to him in workouts, which makes me feel even more that I have a good read on him.

One last note, I wouldn't mind seeing Petrie swing a deal for a high second rounder or two. I think the new age limit convinced quite a few HSers to remain in the draft that probably shouldn't, like Monta Ellis, CJ Miles, or Louis Williams. Some other intriguing players could be available in the 2nd round, like Ronny Turiaf, Luther Head, Randolph Morris or Kennedy Winston.

I can't pretend to know anything about CJ Miles, as the only time I saw him was once on an ESPN all-star game (McDonald's?) and I don't remember anything. And I certainly don't like the idea of Petrie drafting a high schooler in the first round. But if the kid really has potential, I wouldn't mind a second round flyer. Rashard Lewis worked out pretty well.

hrdboild · Jun 22, 2005

I like Jason Maxiell a lot, and he's probably a second round pick. Maybe high second round. So we'd need to work a trade to get him. He's another undersized forward, but he's got that enormous wingspan and he's reportedly a very tough defensive player.

BibityBobtyBoom · Jun 22, 2005

okay, so no lockout, alright

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

Just a note.

Maybe he knows more than I give him credit for, but Chad Ford's newest mock draft has me shaking my head at some of the picks, especially in the lottery.

FYI - he has Taft falling all the way out of the 1st round, and has the Kings drafting Rashad McCants, which could be a possibility.

That being said, if Joey Graham really lasts until the 18th (as he projects) I sincerely hope Petrie offers up a future 1st to acquire a pick to draft him.

whozit · Jun 22, 2005

funkykingston said:

Since the draft is prior to July 1st, I think you are correct about the age eligibility. I am not so sure about the length of contract. The first round picks wouldn't be signed until after July 1st, so wouldn't the new CBA be in effect then resulting in guaranteed two years and team options for the next two?

In other words, wouldn't the draft be under the old terms and the contracts signed be under the new terms.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

I'm pretty sure they are grandfathered in to the old CBA because of the date of the draft, regardless of when they actually sign their deals.

But I could be wrong.

whozit · Jun 22, 2005

If the Kings had any intention of trying to acquire another pick, to have them grandfathered would be beneficial. With the new agreement, having the ability to farm them out to gain experience makes those picks even more attractive.

I would prefer you be right.

But going along that line of reasoning, wouldn't 2nd round picks from the last couple of years also have to be grandfathered? Where do you draw the line?

Bricklayer · Jun 22, 2005

Regarding CJ Miles -- very scared of that name because everyone except one site thinks he is a scrub with nothing that will make him stick in the NBA, and may not even get drafted. Then the one site (nbadraft.net) for some bizarre reason thinks he's Ray Allen. Obviously have to trust our scouting if they take him, but sounds like a much too high a chance of him being a complete washout who should have gone to school and learned something.

Jason Maxiel -- a pox on undersized forwards, no matter how tough. And he IS a twerp (6'6"). Kenny would look down on his head. That's just silly. Only one PF that size who's ever made an impact in the league, and that was the once in a lifetime physical freak that was Barkley (who actually played a lot of SF in his time too but had the skills). 90% of the rest of guys like that are one of the two classic college tweener types -- the too small PF who bullies college guys with his strength, then comes to the NBA, finds everybody else is just as strong as he is, and then is forced to try to develop SF skills despite never having had to develop any in the past. We've had enough of that. Very very hard for a guy like that to ever be more than a roleplayer at best. Supersize me please.

Taft -- thing is, at where we are drafting Taft may be our lotto type guy. Our chance at getting a star player despite picking right in the deadzone. Don't know that you can pass that up. Its a risk, a significant one, but most people you draft there have no huge upside and so best case you've drafted a rotation bencher. If you've got a chance at a guy who COULD be a star, and you are a team trying to figure out a way to recover your talentbase somehow, not sure you can or should pass on the gamble. Barring major major moves we aren't winning titles this year anyway -- a roleplayer isn't going to change the situation any. So might as well take the chance on somebody who could dramatically rbighten the franchise's fortunes if he pans out.

Graham - agree that if he is anywhere in our vicinity I would very much like to see us go after him. Of course does not fulfill our big need at PF, but unlike the various PF candidates, all of whom are flawed and have questions abvout him, Graham seems like more of a sure thing in a way that we very much need -- tough, athletic, potential defensive stopper at SF. If we keep Peja, Graham becomes a very nice change of pace backup (assuming he does not pull Peja's arms off in practice just for fun) if Peja is gone, Graham may already be NBA ready. Not a star, but a dependable physical force.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

The more research I do, the more I see that most people think Miles will get drafted, just not in the first round. Chad Ford has him on the first round bubble, draft express (formerly draft city) has him in the upper third of the second round.

Personally I think he is THE case for guys who should go to college. He is simply not the athletic freak that could get by on quickness, or strength or leaping ability in the NBA until he picked up on the nuances of the game. I think he could be a good NBA player in time, but his learning curve will be steep and his immediate impact will be nil.

Thus, I think my Rashard Lewis comparison is apt. Not so much in playing style (though there are similarities) but in the risk/reward. Unfortunately, I think Miles will take longer to develop and the payoff will be smaller.

If he's there, I don't see Petrie passing on Villaneuva. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. I go back and forth on him. He certainly has the skills to mesh perfectly with the Kings offense. I just don't know if that's a reason to draft a guy at this point, when there are other problems with the team that need to be addressed.

I also have a big fear that Petrie will draft Francisco Garcia.

Ryle · Jun 22, 2005

funkykingston said:

We already have a player like Francisco on our roster and his name is Kevin Martin.....anyway, I really don't think you can pass on Villanueva if he is on the board when we pick. He's an athletic power forward who has alot of potential and loads of talent and we need more athlete's up front.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

Villaneuva moves well for his size, but I wouldn't call him an great athlete. Everything about him reminds me of a poor man's Derrick Coleman, even the way he moves.

Back to CJ Miles, I wonder if Denver is giving serious consideration to drafting him with one of their first rounders. They've had both Miles and Monta Ellis in for workouts recently. The rumor has long been that they like Ellis, but either one seems a stretch at that point in the draft. Especially when they could use a guy who could step in and play minutes at the off guard right now.

Kev.in · Jun 22, 2005

If we pick Garcia, I will have a temper tantrum. There are probably half a dozen guys that'll be on the board at #23 who are sure to be better than him.

thesanityannex · Jun 22, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Taft -- thing is, at where we are drafting Taft may be our lotto type guy. Our chance at getting a star player despite picking right in the deadzone. Don't know that you can pass that up. Its a risk, a significant one, but most people you draft there have no huge upside and so best case you've drafted a rotation bencher. If you've got a chance at a guy who COULD be a star, and you are a team trying to figure out a way to recover your talentbase somehow, not sure you can or should pass on the gamble. Barring major major moves we aren't winning titles this year anyway -- a roleplayer isn't going to change the situation any. So might as well take the chance on somebody who could dramatically rbighten the franchise's fortunes if he pans out.
.

With Taft's stock falling I feel he would be an excellent gamble for the Kings to take. At worst, he's a decent bench guy, at best, a Webber replacement with two legs.

CaminoChaos · Jun 22, 2005

do you guys see Petrie trading kt or williamson for a higher draft pick?

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 22, 2005

thesanityannex said:

I agree with you 100%. At this point in a semi-rebuilding stage I think it is a chance that must be taken if we can take him at #23. A Webber like player can make us Championship contenders fast, with the help of Petrie building a better bench.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

Taft has ability, but he's NOT Webber like. I see more Tony Battie or Chris Wilcox in him.

If there were any takers, sure. But I can't think of one.

hrdboild · Jun 22, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Well he dominated everyone at the Chicago pre-draft camp. He's got a 7'3" wingspan which is unheard of in a guy that size. And really, how many physically dominant big men are there in the league anymore? I don't care if Yao towers over him, this guy would tear him apart.

Bricklayer · Jun 22, 2005

funkykingston said:

Well, that's the low end of course. Not a Webber style player -- more traditional PF skills than multifacted inside/outside stuff. But on the high end a 20 and 10 athlete with shotblocking -- classic stud PF stuff. If he cares enough to realize his potential.

OptimusRhyme · Jun 22, 2005

If Taft is left theres no doubt that Petrie should take him, he has just as much potential as anyone else in the draft, his stock falling right now might be a blessing for us later.

funkykingston · Jun 22, 2005

The fact that his stock is supposedly dropping is something I take as a bad sign. Individual workouts normally reward players with athleticism.

Tony Battie isn't the worst career path Taft could emulate. I think it's a pretty realistic scenario. The real low end for an underacheiving, athletic PF is Jerome Moiso, and a lack of effort/heart could mean the same legacy for Taft. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

As I said, maybe people who have watched more Pittsburgh games have a less jaded outlook on the kid, but Taft simply hasn't impressed me whenever I've seen him. I think he's always been overhyped.

thesanityannex · Jun 22, 2005

Bibby_Is_Clutch said:

If we can resign darius and mo, our bench is still looking pretty solid. And to Kingston's comments on Taft: Two years ago, Taft had that competitive drive and fire that you'd want in any player. This last year, he looked unmotivated for reasons unknown to me. (possibly the rumor of not getting hurt) Anyways, I've seen him play, and when he wants to, he can dominate. Let's just hope he keeps falling and when we get him, OFF TO MOTIVATION CAMP!

chelle · Jun 22, 2005

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13146.shtmlThe Kings Summer Report
By C. Sawyer
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jun 22, 2005, 20:31

What a week. They’ll be playing a Game 7 in the NBA Finals, which should be a nail biter, or a blowout. The NBA and the Players Union reach a tentative agreement, which thankfully should avoid a lockout. And about 60 potential draftees dropped out. Players from last time’s list that dropped out of the draft are Rudy Fernandez and Brandon Bass.

But for the Kings not much has changed. Some players are watching the Finals and some are not. All of them are relieved that there will be no lock out. And the draft is still the draft. Not much likelihood that they will do anything to move out of the 23 pick and not much likelihood that whomever they select with pick #23 will have much of an impact, although one never knows.

And what the Kings need still has not changed, but the draft is probably not where they will fill their major holes. At 23 their best bet may be to pick the best player available but since they currently will be undermanned most likely at the SG and PF positions that would be the place to start.

My opinions of the potential draft picks have not changed much, but there are a few I have added. I think that Petrie would be more likely to select an older player with some experience versus an unproven high school player. Also there may be some foreign players out there that he likes, there are only three on this list, Johan Petro, Fran Vazquez and Ersan Ilyasova. My choice would be to get a player with some experience who can play in the paint and play defense:

Wayne Simian 6’9” PF (SR – Kansas): an aggressive player who can rebound and hit jump shots however he is injury prone (hey – a perfect fit) and could improve his post play offense.
Fit with the Kings – an easily coached player that could probably come off the bench ala Songaila but I’d be mighty concerned about those injuries.

Hakim Warrick 6’8” SF/PF (SR – Syracuse): an athletic and exciting player who can make some nice shots however he could have troubles fitting in with Sacramento’s very team oriented offense, he can get impatient with the ball which could result in too much of a me first game.
Fit with the Kings – likes to shoot and make high flying plays, not the kind of game that the Kings play however if he were to work on his impulsiveness he could help with offensive energy.

Johan Petro 7’0” PF (France): Athletic and powerful but is still raw and not as strong as other in fundamentals, also is rumored to have an attitude and be a bit lazy.
Fit with the Kings – A big guy is always a good thing to have, however as seen with Ostertag it doesn’t do the team much good if the coach doesn’t play him. An attitude could keep him on the bench and without solid fundamentals he may struggle learning the game plan.

Ike Diogu 6’8” PF (JR-Arizona State): A significant post presence with a strong knowledge of the game and solid execution of that knowledge, however he is undersized for a PF and a little slow, his game is better if plays are created for him than if he has to create plays.
Fit with the Kings – Based on Sacramento’s usual style of play the bigs need to be able to play out on the perimeter but it would be nice to establish a strong post presence to keep the other team honest, however again with the Kings’ style of play he would need to improve on creating plays for others.

Channing Frye 6’11” PF/C (SR – Arizona): Solid mechanics except can be turnover prone, undersized in height and weight to play at center, a bit soft.
Fit with the Kings – A solid player although not as aggressive as the Kings would need a PF to be, especially on defense.

Fran Vazquez 6’10” PF (Spain): Inside defensive presence especially blocking shots however lacks a perimeter game.
Fit with the Kings – In the goal to add some defense this could be a step in that direction however on offense the Kings would lose a scoring option when he is on the floor.

Charlie Villanueva 6’11” PF (SO – Connecticut): Good passer/ball handler and perimeter shooter and can rebound can get lackadaisical and lose focus and concentration.
Fit with the Kings – Solid basketball skills, would fit in nicely with the Kings style plus he can play off the boards, some concern has come up regarding his attitude however if he matures he could be a good addition.

David Lee 6’9” PF (SR – Florida): Can rebound and is a good post player, good passer, but week on defense, does not block out and will let his guy get past him.
Fit with the Kings – Potential, the Kings need someone that can post up and that can get offensive rebounds, his defense needs work and he won’t learn it in Sacramento, if they keep Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner they’ll need to bring someone in with a different style.

Chris Taft 6’10” PF/C (So – Pittsburgh): Another big, athletic player who is willing to play in the paint and can be tough, but is not as aggressive/assertive as he needs to be to be successful, this is probably why he is inconsistent.
Fit with the Kings – His inconsistency seems to stem from a lack of confidence and maybe a lack of maturity. If he starts off strong he can be a help with his inside game, if not he can vanish.

Rashad McCants 6’3” SG (JR – UNC): He can shoot, he can score, he can even play defense but he has a bit of a reputation for being difficult as well as being undersized for a 2-guard while not having the skills to run the point.
Fit with the Kings – If he matures and shows respect for his coach he could be an offensive asset off the bench, however his size could be a concern, as the Kings tend to be undersized at the guard positions.

Salim Stoudamire 6’1” SG (SR – Arizona): A high scorer, with a left-handed shot, is comfortable and plays well under pressure usually, can move without the ball, however he is undersized for 2-guard and lacks the skills to play the point, his game is also inconsistent in both offense and defense.
Fit with the Kings – A SG in a PG body. That could work in Sacramento if they can find another Chris Webber or Vlade Divac to run the show.

Francisco Garcia 6’7” SG/SF (JR – Louisville) – Can make a shot from a wide range, has good floor vision could move the ball up the court, needs to bulk up if he wants to play with the big boys.
Fit with the Kings – The Kings run on offense, but he may be another Kevin Martin and we already have him.

Ersan Ilyasova 6’9” SF (Turkey): An athletic player who can shoot, but is injury prone.
Fit with the Kings – It’s time the Kings get some more foreign players. His ankles concern me but it would be possible that Petrie picks him up and then lets him develop a few more years in Europe.

Martell Webster 6’7” SG (HS Senior): Can score from the perimeter and in the paint and can rebound but he relies on his jump shot too much and lacks defensive intensity, also injury prone and young.
Fit with the Kings – Sounds like a King player to me, don’t really need more of the same, although they could use some young offensive power off the bench, but being fresh out of high school could work against him.

CJ Miles 6’6” SG (HS Senior): Can create shots for himself and for others, a well rounded player who is comfortable doing what is needed but again as a high school entrant he is disadvantaged in age, experience and strength.
Fit with the Kings – At the SG position he would need to be able to run some plays I’d want someone with more experience.

Monta Ellis 6’3” SG/PG (HS Senior): Can score either off the dribble or can create own shots. Good court vision but doesn’t always use it. Can be flashy, which can be good and bad. Undersized for the SG position but not experienced in the PG position. His flashiness can result in inconsistent play. Being undersized will also be a defensive challenge guarding bigger SGs.
Fit with the Kings - Similar to Stoudamire although may be more adapt at picking up the PG skills, however he’s young and would be a project and the Kings don’t really need another backup PG, unless they trade BJ.

Andre Blatche 7’0” C (HS Senior): They say you can’t teach height and Blatche has that, but he is inconsistent in effort, and could be considered “soft” by some as he tends to play out on the perimeter when should be in the paint, although others may say he could be the next KG. Looks like he’d be a project.
Fit with the Kings – He has potential if he lives up to it. The Kings however aren’t quite the right team/coach for project players, however he’s a big who likes the perimeter, which has a familiar ring.

Others players that could have potential:
Linas Kleiza 6’8” F (So – Missouri)
Randolph Morris 6’10” C (F – Kentucky)
Jason Maxiell 6’7” PF (SR – Cincinnati)

I think the Kings best bet would be to get a PF with experience, the biggest risk would be to select a high school kid in the first round this low in the draft. But in less than a week we’ll know for sure what the Kings do.

I’m still open to hear your thoughts, is there anyone I missed, do you have any additional insight on any of the draftees, are there any I included that you think will be busts.

BibityBobtyBoom · Jun 22, 2005

maybe we can turn taft around, with adelman and the feeling in arco, eh who knows? and if kevin martin didn't get any playing time last year, how do we know the rookie could even make a difference.

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 22, 2005

Adelman and Larry Brown both need to be a little like Don Nelson... let the rookies play.

thesanityannex · Jun 22, 2005

where has that gotten Nelson?

but i do agree.

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 22, 2005

Heart trouble i think... maybe thats what gave it to him... all the young guys.

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