[Game] Nuggets at Kings, 12-16

[KingsCitizen]

This organization should stop wasting its lottery picks. Jimmer and TRob should be feed with more minutes that have legit competitions and not just plain garbage time.
This is probably Salmons best year since he returned to the Kings, maybe we can try to ship him with IT for Bargs.

That would put Jimmer at solid minutes as back-up PG or SG next to Reke.
Bargs could put a good leverage for TRob to be in that PF/SF spot next to him and DMC.
JT is better suited as a back-up C. It's not against JT but he delivers so much better at Center(see Lakers game vs D12).

PG - Brooks/Jimmer
SG - Reke/Thornton
SF - Bargs/JJ
PF - TRob/Hayes
C - DMC/JT

 

[mac]

Hey guys check out Hawes' new look!

 

[bloom]

Hey guys check out Hawes' new look!

He needs a haircut.

 

[KingMilz]

This is probably Salmons best year since he returned to the Kings, maybe we can try to ship him with IT for Bargs.

That trade would be on par with Kwame Brown (Salmons, IT) for Pau Gasol (Barg) why on earth would the Raptors do that, they signed Piterus,Derozen,Kleiza and Ross who right now crap all over Salmons and they have Lowry and Jose at the PG. I

This organization should stop wasting its lottery picks. Jimmer and TRob

Speaking of wasted picks, I literally have not seen anything from Jimmer that even suggest hes going to half the player JJ Redick is and Robinson right now lacks skills, is undersized and seems to have no idea what hes doing. Compare that to Drummond and Barnes and yeah we messed up as badly as possible.

 

[The_Jamal]

[HR][/HR]

I agree to an extent but he's older than your usual project big and I'm concerned what exactly he is showing the ability to develop in to. But yes Smart is killing our youngs development.

Kind of amusing that 21 years old is considered old nowadays. He's nowhere near a finished product and has several years before we can even think about what his ceiling might be.

At any rate, he's not being put in a position to be succesful. He never gets an opportunity to run with the Reke, Cousins, or JT and he's stuck being the garbage man for our chucker's paradise of a bench.

For now, we can console ourselves with what he showed at Kansas will eventually translate to the NBA over time. We've seen the flashes of energy, rebounding, and just great basketball that he can provide on both ends. The problem is we have a coach who decides giving minutes to Outlaw, Johnson, and Hayes is more beneficial than giving Trob 25+ minutes as our 3rd big to develop properly. Young players, especially bigs, need consistency and continuinity more than anything in the first few years in the NBA

 

[The_Jamal]

That trade would be on par with Kwame Brown (Salmons, IT) for Pau Gasol (Barg) why on earth would the Raptors do that, they signed Piterus,Derozen,Kleiza and Ross who right now crap all over Salmons and they have Lowry and Jose at the PG. I


Speaking of wasted picks, I literally have not seen anything from Jimmer that even suggest hes going to half the player JJ Redick is and Robinson right now lacks skills, is undersized and seems to have no idea what hes doing. Compare that to Drummond and Barnes and yeah we messed up as badly as possible.

Again, how can you make the determination that we "messed up as badly as possible" 20 games into a player's rookie season? Too many posters on this board are incredibly short-sighted and impatient when it comes to our youth, especially when they are already fighting against the grain playing for a coach who has no idea how to develop them. Even so, neither Drummond nor Barnes are exactly lighting the league on fire and both guys are actually in situations where they can be succesful. The same goes for Lillard where he's essentially been handed the reins to run the show in Portland.

To put things in perspective, Robinson has gotten a grand total of 6 minutes on the floor this season playing with Reke and Cousins together. Barnes has gotten 300 minutes with GS best teams, Drummond plays a lot of the time with the Detroit starters and Lillard is in every top lineup Portland has. How can we possibly hope to see Trob succeed when the majority of his Playing time comes with Chuck Hayes as his front-court mate and guards who aren't looking to get him involved?

 

[KingMilz]

To put things in perspective, Robinson has gotten a grand total of 6 minutes on the floor this season playing with Reke and Cousins together. Barnes has gotten 300 minutes with GS best teams, Drummond plays a lot of the time with the Detroit starters and Lillard is in every top lineup Portland has. How can we possibly hope to see Trob succeed when the majority of his Playing time comes with Chuck Hayes as his front-court mate and guards who aren't looking to get him involved?

Because Barnes, Lillard and Drummond are all good enough to gets minutes on better teams and TRob is not, and the reason he was drafted everyone was saying hes the most NBA ready player and hes not even close. T-Rob right now should be in the D-League can you say that about any of the other lottery picks? On top of that he brings nothing the team needs which is a good shooter, shot blocker or quailty PG. Theres very few Andre Drummonds, Barnes and Lillards in basketball you can find a lot of guys like TRob playing in the D-league. To me his lack of IQ really is a concern since he cannot overpower and out jump everyone like he did in college. His jumpshot is no where near what it was in college ethier.

 

[The_Jamal]

Because Barnes, Lillard and Drummond are all good enough to gets minutes on better teams and TRob is not, and the reason he was drafted everyone was saying hes the most NBA ready player and hes not even close. T-Rob right now should be in the D-League can you say that about any of the other lottery picks? On top of that he brings nothing the team needs which is a good shooter, shot blocker or quailty PG. Theres very few Andre Drummonds, Barnes and Lillards in basketball you can find a lot of guys like TRob playing in the D-league. To me his lack of IQ really is a concern since he cannot overpower and out jump everyone like he did in college. His jumpshot is no where near what it was in college ethier.

Why are you acting like any of those 3 rookies 20 games into their careers have proved anything? The same size is insanely small for starters and rookies shouldn't be judged for a few years at any rate. Lillard has been awesome, but there's still plenty of time for him to hit the rookie wall. All Barnes has done is post a 9 PPG 4 RBG averages on slightly below average efficiency while Drummond has put up good back-up C numbers. Not exactly lighting the NBA on fire eh?

Add on top of the fact that all 3 of those rookies are in situations where their coach puts them in a position to succeed and they are guarenteed minutes in their respective roles. Trob, like all our young players, has gotten jerked around while not getting any sort of an opportunity to play with our good players.

 

[KingMilz]

Add on top of the fact that all 3 of those rookies are in situations where their coach puts them in a position to succeed and they are guarenteed minutes in their respective roles. Trob, like all our young players, has gotten jerked around while not getting any sort of an opportunity to play with our good players.

If they were good enough they would be getting mins all the time and plenty of them but guess what on argubly the worest team in the NBA they are not good enough to get mins.

Lillard has been awesome, but there's still plenty of time for him to hit the rookie wall. All Barnes has done is post a 9 PPG 4 RBG

Barnes is also a beast on D and provides floor spacing, a post up option, great size for his position and is excellent for team chemistry none of which Trob is. Drummond when he has played actually impacts games even tho his stats are avg similar to Magee.

 

[Bricklayer]

Why are you acting like any of those 3 rookies 20 games into their careers have proved anything? The same size is insanely small for starters and rookies shouldn't be judged for a few years at any rate. Lillard has been awesome, but there's still plenty of time for him to hit the rookie wall. All Barnes has done is post a 9 PPG 4 RBG averages on slightly below average efficiency while Drummond has put up good back-up C numbers. Not exactly lighting the NBA on fire eh?

Drummond's "backup C" numbers compare favorably to Dwight Howard's rookie production rates. In fact he is on pace right now to have the highest rebound rate of any player his age in NBA history. The reason he is not getting more time is as mystifying to Pistons fans as anything Smart does is to us.

 

[steelevt]

i kind of hoped trob would model his game like faried, whom i wished would have dropped to us in the second round when he was drafted. concentrate on boards and dunks off putbacks. we have 2 other players to run our offense through or set up plays for. just have trob scrap for those rebounds and points.

 

[Bricklayer]

i kind of hoped trob would model his game like faried, whom i wished would have dropped to us in the second round when he was drafted. concentrate on boards and dunks off putbacks. we have 2 other players to run our offense through or set up plays for. just have trob scrap for those rebounds and points.

Ironically, form Scott Howard Cooper tonight on twitter:

Scott Howard-Cooper: Kings have shown Thomas Robinson clips of #Nuggets Kenneth Faried as PF to emulate. Nice compliment for No. 22 pick with 70 games as a pro. Twitter @SHowardCooper

Fareid is mostly just a great hustle player, so I'm sure selling both the team and Robinson on that being the fate of a #5 pick is a toughie. And I also don't think its as easy to say go play like Fareid and just go do it. People have a tendency to do that with huge energy guys, act like its just an effort thing and all you have to do is go try hard enough and voila! But there is a talent there, just like there is with anything. Still a good thought though.

 

[KingsCitizen]

How can TRob excel if he often is paired with non-offensive bigs? TRob has a good chance to start his rookie season as a garbage man next to DMC. But if you pair him next to JT and Hayes who can't hold a candle to DMC's offensive game, then this team is starting to waste that #5 pick.

As for Jimmer, well yeah, he was drafted due to marketing potential. But he's progressing well.

 

[UK_King]

That game was just horrible, horrible.

As for T-rob it's kinda hard to really know what he can do on offense, we don't feature him at all (not saying we should btw) and almost all his shots are "Im gonna get mine" type shots where he just jacks up a horrible mid range jumper or a forced dribble drive.

I can't actually remember us going to him in the post or at that high post area where he's controlling the play.

I'd rather he watched footage of Carlos Boozer tbh, he needs to develop his fadeaway and the one dribble finish from the high post, boozer did a great job of that when he was at the jazz.

I don't really know what the goal is with T-rob, still i like his effort, at least he's not taking plays off or wandering around like some.

 

[Bricklayer]

How can TRob excel if he often is paired with non-offensive bigs? TRob has a good chance to start his rookie season as a garbage man next to DMC. But if you pair him next to JT and Hayes who can't hold a candle to DMC's offensive game, then this team is starting to waste that #5 pick.

rebounding and defense don't depend on whether you are next to offensive bigs or not. And as for his offense I don't know what having an offensive big next to him would do. Maybe if we corraled him from day 1 and said "yo, Mr. #5 pick who said he should be the #1 pick over Anthony Davis before the draft, you are now a garbageman! A roleplayer! Don't shoot!" But then what is the point of that? Why take him at all. And frankly as a garbageman/roleplayer he's not as good as either JT or Hayes. If we'd started him next to Cuz anyway and he struggled -- and he would have going against the starting PFs rather than reserves -- we would have then just spun around and said that "see, playing next to Cuz isn't giving him his opportunities to score!", which he certianly could have playing next to Hayes. Its not like we've seen him doubled this season.

Anyway, what's done is done. My version of losing patience with this team is losing patience with people trying to softpedal the fact we blew a second straight lottery pick, and with back to back mistakes having now badly hamstrung what looked like a sure thing rebuild. People are realizing that now, and good. Suck it up, admit it, and move on. I still think we might be able to get Robinson around to being a useful NBA player, if we sell him on the fact he's never going to be a star, tell him to work hard on a standstill 16 foot jumper, to be taken on the catch, run a few alley oops to him, get him to crank up the running game etc. But what we are talking about then is having drafted Hakim Warrick with a #5 pick.

He has to be depressed at this point. personally I would consider him trade bait if I could find anybody still drinking the kool aid. But if not, then maybe something will free up for him after another trade on our behalf, although I don't see Cousins or JT going without bringin back another big at least as good. So it may not be until the summer that he can try to fully recalibrate to roleplayer play, and even then he'll still be small for the job and hence not what we need (long shotblocker like maybe, oh, I don't know, DRUMMOND??). Anyway, guess that's half the physical issues Jimmer has though (Jimmer being both small and slow), so I think TRob's odds of carving out a career are better. Given a chance to rest, he may rediscover his competitive fire and improve as he is able. But looks like we blew it again, which is likely rather more annoying to those of us who predicted it and advocated other moves, than those who bought into the ones we made.

 

[KingMilz]

How can TRob excel if he often is paired with non-offensive bigs? TRob has a good chance to start his rookie season as a garbage man next to DMC. But if you pair him next to JT and Hayes who can't hold a candle to DMC's offensive game, then this team is starting to waste that #5 pick.

As for Jimmer, well yeah, he was drafted due to marketing potential. But he's progressing well.

The only thing which would happend if you put TRob on he floor with Cousins is make life very hard for Cuz, now teams can double of the SF,SG and PF when Cousins is making post moves and they can further clog the lane when he tries to drive. All this will result in is forced shots or Cousins just taking to many mid range shots. Cousins has to be paired with JT since they have to respect his shot a little.

 

[mac]

If they were good enough they would be getting mins all the time and plenty of them but guess what on argubly the worest team in the NBA they are not good enough to get mins.



Barnes is also a beast on D and provides floor spacing, a post up option, great size for his position and is excellent for team chemistry none of which Trob is. Drummond when he has played actually impacts games even tho his stats are avg similar to Magee.

On normal teams I'd agree with you, but I'm not a 100% sure whether performance = playing time on our team.

 

[bajaden]

If they were good enough they would be getting mins all the time and plenty of them but guess what on argubly the worest team in the NBA they are not good enough to get mins.



Barnes is also a beast on D and provides floor spacing, a post up option, great size for his position and is excellent for team chemistry none of which Trob is. Drummond when he has played actually impacts games even tho his stats are avg similar to Magee.

One thing I can't stand is exaggeration on any level. Barnes has played well, but he's far from a finished product, and he's hardly a beast on defense. I will admit that I'm a closet Warriors fan, so I watch a lot of their games. I can remember very well when many if not a majority of the people on this fourm wanted JT traded. People called for his head in his rookie year, and more joined, in his second year. I preached patience. Bigs take time to develop, as do PG's.

To say that the reason T. Robb isn't getting more minutes is because he's not good enough, is pure nonsense! Are you really telling me that, when we have a coach that throws Outlaw into the game instead of Robinson? We have a delusional idiot at the helm of a ship thats under attack and leaking at the same time. All he does is grab the first available deckhand and throw him into the fray. There's a lot more wrong with this team than Robinson or Fredette.

Lets talk about IT, everyone's wonder boy. Does anyone know how many times he had the ball in his hands last night and passed the ball? The Nugget announcers were taking bets on when he would actually try and get an assist. How many times did the Kings have a wide open shooter that was ignored that ended with a missed shot or a turnover? I stopped counting after 16. This is a team with no dicipline and apparently no plan. That that all rests on the coaching staff.

You can have four players on the floor that are trying to run a play, but if the fifth player isn't on board, the whole thing falls apart, and soon, everyone starts to play for themself. You can have the best engine parts in the world, but if you don't put them together properly, all you have is junk!

 

[bajaden]

The only thing which would happend if you put TRob on he floor with Cousins is make life very hard for Cuz, now teams can double of the SF,SG and PF when Cousins is making post moves and they can further clog the lane when he tries to drive. All this will result in is forced shots or Cousins just taking to many mid range shots. Cousins has to be paired with JT since they have to respect his shot a little.

Mi amigo, thats happening now. When was the last time you saw Cousins in the post without being doubled? Other teams aren't stupid! The one thing their not going to do is allow Cousins to roam around in the post in single man to man coverage. So they double him everytime he has the ball, unless he's at the elbow. Basicly, most teams are daring us to beat them with jumpshooters. If anything, the reverse of what you just stated would be true. Cousins would make life easier for Robinson because Cuz would draw all the attention. Robinson's future hangs on the development of his jumpshot. He has good form on that shot. Once he's consistent with it, he becomes a different player. But that doesn't happen overnight, and until it does, JT should be the starter.

However, it wouldn't hurt, and might help to have Cousins out there with the second unit at times. My approach would come at Hayes expense. I'd like to go to a basic three man rotation in the post. Start Cuz and JT, and when JT comes out of the game put in T. Robb. Give JT a blow, and then have him come in for Cuz, leaving JT and T. Robb in the post. And then have Cuz come back in with T. Robb going to the bench. Adjust the minutes anyway you like, depending on whose hot and whose not. What I don't want to see is Hayes at center, Johnson at PF, Outlaw at SF, Fredette at SG, and IT at PG. That lineup almost makes me want to throw up. And only an idiot would put that lineup on the floor.

 

[The_Jamal]

rebounding and defense don't depend on whether you are next to offensive bigs or not. And as for his offense I don't know what having an offensive big next to him would do. Maybe if we corraled him from day 1 and said "yo, Mr. #5 pick who said he should be the #1 pick over Anthony Davis before the draft, you are now a garbageman! A roleplayer! Don't shoot!" But then what is the point of that? Why take him at all. And frankly as a garbageman/roleplayer he's not as good as either JT or Hayes. If we'd started him next to Cuz anyway and he struggled -- and he would have going against the starting PFs rather than reserves -- we would have then just spun around and said that "see, playing next to Cuz isn't giving him his opportunities to score!", which he certianly could have playing next to Hayes. Its not like we've seen him doubled this season.

Anyway, what's done is done. My version of losing patience with this team is losing patience with people trying to softpedal the fact we blew a second straight lottery pick, and with back to back mistakes having now badly hamstrung what looked like a sure thing rebuild. People are realizing that now, and good. Suck it up, admit it, and move on. I still think we might be able to get Robinson around to being a useful NBA player, if we sell him on the fact he's never going to be a star, tell him to work hard on a standstill 16 foot jumper, to be taken on the catch, run a few alley oops to him, get him to crank up the running game etc. But what we are talking about then is having drafted Hakim Warrick with a #5 pick.

He has to be depressed at this point. personally I would consider him trade bait if I could find anybody still drinking the kool aid. But if not, then maybe something will free up for him after another trade on our behalf, although I don't see Cousins or JT going without bringin back another big at least as good. So it may not be until the summer that he can try to fully recalibrate to roleplayer play, and even then he'll still be small for the job and hence not what we need (long shotblocker like maybe, oh, I don't know, DRUMMOND??). Anyway, guess that's half the physical issues Jimmer has though (Jimmer being both small and slow), so I think TRob's odds of carving out a career are better. Given a chance to rest, he may rediscover his competitive fire and improve as he is able. But looks like we blew it again, which is likely rather more annoying to those of us who predicted it and advocated other moves, than those who bought into the ones we made.

You must be the greatest NBA scout of all time if you already know without a shadow of a doubt that Trob has no chance of being a star player in the NBA. Bravo.

You can't honestly with a straight face make the determination that Trob is a bust and destined for a garbageman/roleplayer role 20 games in. You act the part of a smart guy so I would think you know that a 20 game sample size is pitifully small to make any determination, especially on our team with the way we "develop" young players. Had Trob come into the NBA as a 20-10 player the first 20 games, I doubt we'd see you on saying "Should have drafted Drummond! We blew a second straight lottery pick!"

How's Jeremy Lin working out? He had a 25 game sample size last season of being a beast and got paid well for it. Well, the league figured him out and now he's struggling to readjust. The same happens for every young player in the league and the guys who have long careers are the one's who are able to adjust once the league figures you out. Tyreke, JT, Cousins, Thornton, IT have all gone through this or are currently going through this same process.

 

[The_Jamal]

One thing I can't stand is exaggeration on any level. Barnes has played well, but he's far from a finished product, and he's hardly a beast on defense. I will admit that I'm a closet Warriors fan, so I watch a lot of their games. I can remember very well when many if not a majority of the people on this fourm wanted JT traded. People called for his head in his rookie year, and more joined, in his second year. I preached patience. Bigs take time to develop, as do PG's.

To say that the reason T. Robb isn't getting more minutes is because he's not good enough, is pure nonsense! Are you really telling me that, when we have a coach that throws Outlaw into the game instead of Robinson? We have a delusional idiot at the helm of a ship thats under attack and leaking at the same time. All he does is grab the first available deckhand and throw him into the fray. There's a lot more wrong with this team than Robinson or Fredette.

Lets talk about IT, everyone's wonder boy. Does anyone know how many times he had the ball in his hands last night and passed the ball? The Nugget announcers were taking bets on when he would actually try and get an assist. How many times did the Kings have a wide open shooter that was ignored that ended with a missed shot or a turnover? I stopped counting after 16. This is a team with no dicipline and apparently no plan. That that all rests on the coaching staff.

You can have four players on the floor that are trying to run a play, but if the fifth player isn't on board, the whole thing falls apart, and soon, everyone starts to play for themself. You can have the best engine parts in the world, but if you don't put them together properly, all you have is junk!

Amen. The lack of patience from the posters here is really rather alarming, especially knowing we have a coach who chooses to play JJ, Outlaw, and Hayes at times over giving Trob minutes. Also the fact that Robinson has played exactly 6 minutes this season with both Reke and Cousins on the floor. So, he's getting inconsistent playing time and he's not getting any opportunity to run with JT, Cuz, or Reke. Tell me how many young bigs have suceeded in the NBA in his first 20 games under those conditions.

Hell, just to prove that you can never give up on bigs, Thabeet has carved himself out a nice niche in OKC as being a productive back-up C. Brooks put him in a role he could succeed in and he's getting great production from him when everyone else wrote him off as a useless bust.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Why are you acting like any of those 3 rookies 20 games into their careers have proved anything?

they have proved that they fit onto our team a hell of a lot better than a undersized power forward lacking offensive abilities.

i really like T-Rob, but he was NOT a smart pick. looks like another case of Petrie being terrible. instead of drafting a player that fits our needs. he just went with what the general consensus said was a "NBA ready" guy.

 

[The_Jamal]

they have proved that they fit onto our team a hell of a lot better than a undersized power forward lacking offensive abilities.

i really like T-Rob, but he was NOT a smart pick. looks like another case of Petrie being terrible. instead of drafting a player that fits our needs. he just went with what the general consensus said was a "NBA ready" guy.

Did I miss something where Lillard, Drummond, or Barnes played for us this season? Trob is being put into situations where he's bound to fail. The other rookies are being put into situations where they can be successful. It's as simple as that.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

hey i totally agree. T-Rob is getting screwed by Smart. and i do like T-Rob and think he can be a very good PF,

BUT, he was not the right choice for this team

 

[UK_King]

I don't know what kind of offense they ran at Kansas tbh but i notice on a lot of film T-Rob liked to use his superior strength at college level to get behind his man and ease him out of the way.

I still think he can be good at the high post, play the melo at PF type of game, not that kind of player obviously but the way they hit him when he's at the 4.

 

[bajaden]

I don't know what kind of offense they ran at Kansas tbh but i notice on a lot of film T-Rob liked to use his superior strength at college level to get behind his man and ease him out of the way.

I still think he can be good at the high post, play the melo at PF type of game, not that kind of player obviously but the way they hit him when he's at the 4.

Well I saw him play a lot at Kansas, and to be honest, he was just quicker than anyone else at this position in college. When it came to rebounding, he out quicked most opponets. And seldom did he come up against anyone stronger than him as well. So now he's going through an adjustment, and most of it has to do with technique and fundamentals. He has some nice skills! He just needs to put the whole package together, and he'll be fine. He's not going to be Karl Malone, but he could be a David West/Paul Milsap type player. He's a very good athlete, so there's no reason he can't be a good defender, or even a decent weakside shotblocker. He just needs a little time to figure things out.

 

[panda]

What was IT doing at the end of the 4th? He almost looked surprised the game ended.

 

[bajaden]

Just to clarify things a bit, I thought I show the first couple of years in the league of some notable PF's that are all 6'9" or under. Rome wasn't built in a day, and some seem to have this misconception that every lottery pick comes into the league running without having to learn how to walk first. Those are the rare one's that do, and, if I might add, most of them are lucky enough to land on a team with a good PG. ( Malone, Stoudemire, etc.)

Thomas Robinson:
1st year: 16 MPG - 4.5 PPG - 4.1 RPG

Paul Milsap:
1st year: 18 MPG - 6.8 PPG - 5.2 RPG
2nd year: 20 MPG - 8.1 PPG - 5.6 RPG
2011/12: 33 MPG - 16.6 PPG - 8.8 RPG

David Lee:
1st year: 17 MPG - 5.1 PPG - 4.5 RPG
2nd year: 30 MPG - 10.7 PPG - 10.4 RPG
2011/12: 37 MPG - 20.1 PPG - 10.0 RPG

Zack Randolph:
1st year: 6 MPG - 2.8 PPG - 1.7 RPG
2nd year: 17 MPG - 8.4 PPG - 4.5 RPG
2010/11: 36 MPG - 20.1 PPG - 12.2 RPG

Carl Landry:
1st year: 17 MPG - 8.1 PPG - 4.9 RPG
2nd year: 21 MPG - 9.2 PPG - 5.0 RPG
2009/10: 37 MPG - 18.0 PPG - 6.5 RPG

David West:
1st year: 13 MPG - 3.8 PPG - 4.2 RPG
2nd year: 18 MPG - 6.2 PPG - 4.3 RPG
2010/11: 35 MPG - 18.9 PPG - 7.6 RPG

Udonis Haslem:
1st year: 24 MPG - 7.3 PPG - 6.3 RPG
2nd year: 33 MPG - 10.9 PPG - 9.1 RPG
2007/08: 36 MPG - 12.0 PPG - 9.0 RPG

Kris Humphries:
1st year: 13 MPG - 4.1 PPG - 2.9 RPG
2nd year: 10 MPG - 3.0 PPG - 2.5 RPG
2011/12: 35 MPG - 13.6 PPG - 11.0 RPG

Josh Smith:
1st year: 27 MPG - 9.7 PPG - 6.2 RPG
2nd year: 32 MPG - 11.3 PPG - 6.6 RPG
2011/12: 35 MPG - 18.8 PPG - 9.6 RPG

Now if your ready to give up on T. Robb due to his first year numbers, which aren't concluded yet, then you would have given up on Humphries, Lee, Randolph, Landry, Milsap, and West as well. Only Smith seems to be the exception, and if you compare their first year per 36 numbers, they're not that far apart. My point is, it took time for all of these guys to develop and become the players you see today.

 

[Bricklayer]

Just to clarify things a bit, I thought I show the first couple of years in the league of some notable PF's that are all 6'9" or under. Rome wasn't built in a day, and some seem to have this misconception that every lottery pick comes into the league running without having to learn how to walk first. Those are the rare one's that do, and, if I might add, most of them are lucky enough to land on a team with a good PG. ( Malone, Stoudemire, etc.)

Thomas Robinson:
1st year: 16 MPG - 4.5 PPG - 4.1 RPG

Paul Milsap:
1st year: 18 MPG - 6.8 PPG - 5.2 RPG
2nd year: 20 MPG - 8.1 PPG - 5.6 RPG
2011/12: 33 MPG - 16.6 PPG - 8.8 RPG

David Lee:
1st year: 17 MPG - 5.1 PPG - 4.5 RPG
2nd year: 30 MPG - 10.7 PPG - 10.4 RPG
2011/12: 37 MPG - 20.1 PPG - 10.0 RPG

Zack Randolph:
1st year: 6 MPG - 2.8 PPG - 1.7 RPG
2nd year: 17 MPG - 8.4 PPG - 4.5 RPG
2010/11: 36 MPG - 20.1 PPG - 12.2 RPG

Carl Landry:
1st year: 17 MPG - 8.1 PPG - 4.9 RPG
2nd year: 21 MPG - 9.2 PPG - 5.0 RPG
2009/10: 37 MPG - 18.0 PPG - 6.5 RPG

David West:
1st year: 13 MPG - 3.8 PPG - 4.2 RPG
2nd year: 18 MPG - 6.2 PPG - 4.3 RPG
2010/11: 35 MPG - 18.9 PPG - 7.6 RPG

Udonis Haslem:
1st year: 24 MPG - 7.3 PPG - 6.3 RPG
2nd year: 33 MPG - 10.9 PPG - 9.1 RPG
2007/08: 36 MPG - 12.0 PPG - 9.0 RPG

Kris Humphries:
1st year: 13 MPG - 4.1 PPG - 2.9 RPG
2nd year: 10 MPG - 3.0 PPG - 2.5 RPG
2011/12: 35 MPG - 13.6 PPG - 11.0 RPG

Josh Smith:
1st year: 27 MPG - 9.7 PPG - 6.2 RPG
2nd year: 32 MPG - 11.3 PPG - 6.6 RPG
2011/12: 35 MPG - 18.8 PPG - 9.6 RPG

Now if your ready to give up on T. Robb due to his first year numbers, which aren't concluded yet, then you would have given up on Humphries, Lee, Randolph, Landry, Milsap, and West as well. Only Smith seems to be the exception, and if you compare their first year per 36 numbers, they're not that far apart. My point is, it took time for all of these guys to develop and become the players you see today.

Wihtout denying the point that TRob could still have a career, the path to almost any of those careers is doubtful. Almost all of those guys are either distinctly bigger/stronger than TRob, or had high skill levels coming in. I never thought Milsap would be a bust, because he had flashy skills from the start.

Its not about production, where you left off Trob's .412 shooting and high turnover rates right now. The big concern is about game. You could see the way forward with Landry's post skills, everybody could see Randolph's potential as a thick physical post player etc. With TRob...he's not showing any game. What would inspire you to even give a small (and by small its not just height, he's too light and can't hold position) PF who gets overpowered on defense and can't do anything on offense but dunk, minutes? If he did something well, then you would have a hook to at least try to build around. But he's not showing anything useful. We are reduced to sending him tapes of Kenneth Fareid and basically saying " just try real real hard". If you don't have a high skill level or tremenddous strength, being an undersized 4 makes you a shaky prospect at best. That's the problem with drafting people too small for the NBA -- the ones who were superior players in college just because they were superior athletes bounce up a level and discover they aren't anymore.

I still remember when I took my macho high school swagger to college -- I was very very strong in high school. Very tough to contain. Loved to throw guys around. Teams routinely doubled me to try to slow me down. And then I take my act to college and sometime during twoadays I fire out at our 260lb center, get stood up, and then just got absolutely lit up, thrown flying five yards as our 290lb backup tackle comes pulling down off the corner and just splatted me. I'd never had that happen before. No idea of which way was up or down. I hadn't gotten weaker phsycially. Just everybody else had gotten stronger, and suddenly I was going to have to relearn how to play. TRob is going to have to do the same thing. Could he? Hey, who knows. But you could say that about almost any young NBAer drafted #1 to #60.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Almost all of thsoe guys are either distinctly bigger/stronger than TRob, or had high skill levels coming in. I never thought Milsap would be a bust, because he had flashy skills from the start.

Its not about production, where you left off Trob's .412 shooting and high turnover rates right now. The big concern is about game. You could see the way forward with Landry, everybody could see Randolph's potential as a thick physical post player etc. With TRob...he's not showing any game. What would inspire you to even give a small (and by small its not just height, he's too light and can't hold position) PF who gets overpowered on defense and can't do anything on offense but dunk, minutes? If he did something well, then you would have a hook to at least try to build around. But he's not showing anything useful. We are reduced to sending him tapes of Kenneth Fareid and basically saying " just try real real hard". If you don't have a high skill level or tremenddous strength, being an undersized 4 makes you a shaky prospect at best.

It's too early to give TRob that conclusion. A lot of players only realize the best game they can play with team after one big game. That one big game doesn't come if your getting ****ty minutes. My only hope here is that were gonna call a trade this month which would eventually show that Petrie didn't really like what Smart is doing with his lottery picks. That kind of trade would ship Smart's "precious" players (a.k.a. Tiny PGs, Tiny backcourt, and super scrubs).