Nocioni is perfect for this young team...

[Merdiesel]

It would be a mistake to trade away this guy for scraps and heres why:

pros
Plays his heart out every possession / great competitor
Doesn't cry about minutes / team player
Knows how to win (2004 Olympic Gold)
Holds teammates accountable
pesky on-ball defender / solid help side D
can play multiple positions
Tough as nails

cons
29 years old
contract is a year too long
takes minutes away from prospects

His pro's heavily out way his cons and I really think once he gets comfortable here, he will turn out to be a leader of this team. Having a guy with all of these characteristics could be a positive thing when talking about the development of our future. IMO we are better off with this guy on our team then we are with another late draft pick and an expiring contract.

 

[kingsnation]

I agree with you here. And I think he will be happier this year once this young team begins to show improvement. He will be happy to have guys like Reke, Omri, Brock and Sergio added to this roster.

I do think that Noc will be a valuable piece to this team even if we don't see immediate W's in the standings. The impact he has is more than just W's.

 

[Smills91]

I think moving the extra 13 million + owed to him over the following two years is more beneficial than anything he can provide us. If he's dealt at the deadline for expirings, that's IDEAL.

 

[BritishColumbia]

Any young team needs a veteran leadership!!! I'd say that you have to have a guy/guys like that on your team ...

Noc is a very good one for it:

- Multilingual (Spanish, Italian, English)
- Has both NBA and Euroleague experience - can relate to local and International players
- Hard worker and no softy
- No off-the-court problems

If you wanna build an ideal veteran for a modern NBA re-building team, Andreas is almost a perfect guy for that. His contract is not the best in the World but not the worst one either. I'd say it is only slightly overpriced but you have to pay for his intangibles (see above).

 

[AriesMar27]

no one is saying that he is a bad player, well i did but thats not the point. he would be a good roleplayer for a contending team. but we are a 17 win team and he doesnt even bring enough to get us to 20 wins. in the last 20 games of the season he averaged 14 points and 6 assists.... thats fine on a winning team but if the most you can get from your starting sf is 13.8 points on a 17 win team. you suck... sorry, but he was garbage on our team. he didnt hurt us but he definitely didnt help us. if he had helped us win 2 more games we would have ended up with the number 1 pick in the draft. nocioni couldnt get us 2 wins....

 

[Jechtsphere]

I love his game and want him on the team I just don't want guys like DG and Omri playing barely any minutes because he's starting and Cisco would be his back up most likely.

Guess that's my only worry, really love watching him play.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I think moving the extra 13 million + owed to him over the following two years is more beneficial than anything he can provide us. If he's dealt at the deadline for expirings, that's IDEAL.

Pretty much how I feel also. I think you'll find a few people won't be mad or sad if he stays here, but if he's traded for Expiring contracts no one will be particularly upset either.

 

[Entity]

no one is saying that he is a bad player, well i did but thats not the point. he would be a good roleplayer for a contending team. but we are a 17 win team and he doesnt even bring enough to get us to 20 wins. in the last 20 games of the season he averaged 14 points and 6 assists.... thats fine on a winning team but if the most you can get from your starting sf is 13.8 points on a 17 win team. you suck... sorry, but he was garbage on our team. he didnt hurt us but he definitely didnt help us. if he had helped us win 2 more games we would have ended up with the number 1 pick in the draft. nocioni couldnt get us 2 wins....

14pts is damn good for the 4th option. he may well be 5th option once reek hits the starting lineup. i am looking for jt and spence to both be over 15ppg martin around 21 and reek over 15 with garcia getting 14.

 

[AriesMar27]

all im saying is that im not seeing the positive side to keeping him. its not that he isnt scoring enough, i dont expect him to score that much to begin with but what do we gain by keeping him that we couldnt get from trading him. id rather see greene scoring 14 points a game than nocioni. if greene was averaging 14 points a game i bet we would win more than the 4 games that we've won since nocioni joined the team.

in fact, if hawes, thompson and greene each averaged 14 points a game i bet we would be fighting for a playoff spot and not the number 1 pick in the draft. if we were still losing with our young players playing well none of us would ever complain because we would have something to build on and look forward to. nocioni should be playing for a good team. a team where his talents will help his team win a championship. he is one of those type of roleplayers... like james posey or rober horry... he has no place on a 17 win lottery team.

 

[KingsCitizen]

We haven't seen yet how Westphal is going to implement his rotation. So why do you people keep thinking that Donte and Omri are not going to get minutes if Noc will be on the roster.

Natt is already gone. So forget his nonsense rotation. Clear your thoughts folks and lets wait until we have a much clearer picture about Westphal's rotation.

With McCants and Jackson also gone, there is a much more chance that Garcia will only be getting most of his minutes at the SG spot behind Martin.

So there goes more minutes at backup SF for Casspi and Greene.

 

[Telemachus]

all im saying is that im not seeing the positive side to keeping him. its not that he isnt scoring enough, i dont expect him to score that much to begin with but what do we gain by keeping him that we couldnt get from trading him. id rather see greene scoring 14 points a game than nocioni. if greene was averaging 14 points a game i bet we would win more than the 4 games that we've won since nocioni joined the team.

I am all for getting Greene and Casspi as much playing time as possible. That doesn't mean that either of them are ready to start at SF this season. And I don't think you get rid of your current starting SF unless you know that one of them can step in a fill the role with some degree of compentence. I don't want to see Garcia starting either. I think he is much more effective as a high energy guy off the bench (primarily at SG).

It is my hope that either Casspi or Greene play so well in training camp and pre-season that they make it obvious they should start. But that is probably just wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Bricklayer]

We haven't seen yet how Westphal is going to implement his rotation. So why do you people keep thinking that Donte and Omri are not going to get minutes if Noc will be on the roster.

Natt is already gone. So forget his nonsense rotation. Clear your thoughts folks and lets wait until we have a much clearer picture about Westphal's rotation.

With McCants and Jackson also gone, there is a much more chance that Garcia will only be getting most of his minutes at the SG spot behind Martin.

So there goes more minutes at backup SF for Casspi and Greene.

Barring injury, there is no realistic way for there to be significant minutes behind Noc/Cisco/Kevin.

96 min for the two positions.

No realistic way Kevin averages less than 35
No relaistic way Cisco averages less than 24
No realistic way Noc averages less than 24
Totals 83, and that was being very conservative, in fact too much so, on the Noc/Cisco minutes. In any case you might have a dozen total miinutes a night for eveyrbody else, Omri and Donte combined.

It is a problem -- I would gernerally consider Noc and Cisco the two closest things to hustle leaders we have and oiur two best roleplayers. But stacked together they nearly 100% squish two of our young prospects, and on a team in total rebuild the young prospects have to come first, second, and third. They are your only hope of pulling out of this mess.

 

[Merdiesel]

Can't Noc share a bit of his minutes at the PF spot?...

 

[AriesMar27]

Can't Noc share a bit of his minutes at the PF spot?...

could thomas? no.... unless he were some sort of freak athlete that could make up for his lack of size, no.... no, no, and oh hell no.... maybe against certain teams bench players but not against any starters... i hate watching him get switched on to bigger players, smaller players as well... he's not quick enough for them and not big/strong enough for the bigger players... even if it were for a couple of minutes would you want nocioni guarding tim duncan? nope. kg? nope. howard? hell no. gasol, maybe he is kinda soft... bosh too i guess he's soft, boozer? nope... a couple of minutes could be 8 or 9 possesions depending on the pace of the game. we are already a weak defensive team. dont make it worse by having our scrub sf guard a all star pf even for a minute. they will tear him apart. thats the same problem i have with playing greene at pf, yeah he's tall but damn... so is peja, unless he was guarding dirk he had no business guarding a starting caliber pf at all.... i dont care how tough you guys think nocioni is. he isnt a pf....

 

[TONYTOUCH]

I don't know if anyone else remembers this, but I remember him making a statement to a Argentine reporter about not wanting to be around unless the Kings are trying to win now. Being a realist I see it taking about 3 years (the soonest) for this young core to gel and learn to win together and return to the playoffs. So to those of you who mentioned him being a great leader and mentor to the young players, I see him possibly becoming bitter and thinking he's wasting his prime years on a losing team. That could be a bad thing for the whole rebuilding process. If the Kings could get young players with potential, or expiring contracts for Chapu and send him to a contender it would be better for both parties. I am also anxiously awaiting one of these young Kings to really emerge as the team leader. Martin really talked the talk last year about it being his team, but he really lacks the bravado it takes to lead men. Spencer Hawes has the mentality and leadership abilities it would take but is still very young. It could be Tyreke or Donte' that eventually develop into a leader.

 

[Prince_XY]

This is really very hard to decide. I like Nocioni to be part of this team. I actually envision him as the one who would be pushing/teaching the other guys to play with heart every game. I believe Nocioni is the toughest player we've got. Of course retaining him could mean that Greene and Casspi wouldn't have longer playing times as fans would like them to have. And I undertsand the sentiments of the fans.

I'm sure glad I'm not one of those who will decide whether to let go of the relatively undersized and mediocre players for SF ( Nocioni and Garcia )

 

[Rug King]

I would like to see Noc stick around this year and see what happens with this new system and people. He brings a tough veteran presence to the floor and always plays hard. Green and Omri aren't anywhere near starting players. I think one more year with Noc as sf would help make the team more competitive and give Green and Casspi more time to develope. Besides there's usually some sort of injury problem so there's going to be more minutes available somewhere for these guys. Cisco and Martin get their fair share of missed games.

 

[HighTopKicks]

Every yr players get raises (i know Noc doesn't) and the team adds new draft picks with guaranteed contracts. To keep below the salary cap in this economy we can't have 4 players at the SF making $15M or over 25% or our salary cap. With picks like Evans starting at $3.6M and players like Hawes & JT finishing their rookie salary and looking for a big contract in 2011 & 2012, we have to move our big contract all the time just to keep the salary from spiroling out of control.

Having said that, Greene or Casspi need to step up and take the starting SF job away from Noc. Until they do we need Noc, if we're going to improve our win/loss record. Hopefully, it will happen before the trade deadline and we can move him, but if he can't be moved until next summer so be it.

Cisco is needed to backup Martin and as insurance against Martin's recurring injuries. Greene is bulking up in the weightroom and can help at SF & PF. Casspi is a rookies and is going to need time to adjust to the NBA game.

Our best chance to move salary is if Evans & Sergio can handle the PG position. Then Beno who's contract is the worst can be moved along with Thomas.

 

[NoBonus]

If Noc isn't your veteran leadership, who is? Beno? K9?

 

[Arkitect]

If Noc isn't your veteran leadership, who is? Beno? K9?

Martin has been in the league 5 years now. He isn't a young NBA player anymore.

 

[NoBonus]

Martin has been in the league 5 years now. He isn't a young NBA player anymore.

He also lacks leadership skills (see last season)

 

[TheRaven]

If Noc isn't your veteran leadership, who is? Beno? K9?

People seem very convinced Nocioni is our veteran leadership and he has only been here half a season. Who says that Noc is our veteran leadership?

Besides, it isn't an either/or deal. You can have veteran leadership without having Nocioni. There are other players who can provide leadership without taking up a chunk of cap space for the number of years he is signed for, and without taking away minutes from several younger players who play the same position.

 

[Kingster]

If Noc isn't your veteran leadership, who is? Beno? K9?

Cisco

 

[Prince_XY]

Martin has been in the league 5 years now. He isn't a young NBA player anymore.

Are you insinuating that you want the softest and non-defending starter to be the leader of this ( seemingly improved in toughness ) team for another year?

That scenario is scary. Martin's softness might be communicable. This team might end up softy again, especially because you'll let Martin lead.

 

[bozzwell]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Noce will definitely gripe and argue about his minutes and be unhappy about playing on a non-competitive team. He did it at Chicago, there is no reason to believe he won't do it in Sacramento on a team that is far from where Bulls were while he was here. He got into it with his teammates, with his coaches, in practice, during the games or in press conferences/interviews.

Let me put it this way - Aileene will love him.

 

[Smills91]

As far as LEADERSHIP goes, I think Brockman will help set a tone in practice and camp. The guy seems to get it. He seems like a natural leader, personality wise and a lead by example type.

 

[Arkitect]

Are you insinuating that you want the softest and non-defending starter to be the leader of this ( seemingly improved in toughness ) team for another year?

That scenario is scary. Martin's softness might be communicable. This team might end up softy again, especially because you'll let Martin lead.

He is and should be one of the leaders. As far as experience in the league and having played in lot of NBA basketball games, Martin is more than qualified to be a leader and mentor to the younger players. If he was the only leader I would be worried.

 

[Bricklayer]

He is and should be one of the leaders. As far as experience in the league and having played in lot of NBA basketball games, Martin is more than qualified to be a leader and mentor to the younger players. If he was the only leader I would be worried.

He has no leasership skills at all, and the only path he could lead us down you don't want this franchise to take. Just being around the NBA doesn't make you a leader. Even just being a good player doesn't make you a leader. Depending on how far the egoitis has advanced, Kevin may still be a nice enough guy to get out of the way and let others take up the mantle, and that would be best case. Sooner he is back over in a corner in a little box marked "break open for points" the sooner we can have a shot at developing a tougher edgier mentality than the Charminville of last year.

 

[bajaden]

He has no leasership skills at all, and the only path he could lead us down you don't want this franchise to take. Just being around the NBA doesn't make you a leader. Even just being a good player doesn't make you a leader. Depending on how far the egoitis has advanced, Kevin may still be a nice enough guy to get out of the way and let others take up the mantle, and that would be best case. Sooner he is back over in a corner in a little box marked "break open for points" the sooner we can have a shot at developing a tougher edgier mentality than the Charminville of last year.

Gotta agree with you on, Martin is not a leader. I also don't think he should be put down for that. As you point out, not everyone is a leader. Martin is what he is. A good scoring shooting guard. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Richmond without the body and the defense. Richmond wasn't a very good ball handler and wasn't a very good passer. But he did make up for it on defense.

Someone said that leaders are born not made. I firmly believe that. Anyone can step up and say follow me. The trick is getting them to beleive in you and follow. Not everyone has that ability, and sometimes, even the ones that do, don't turn out to be good leaders. Look at the mess Portland got into with the wrong kind of leadership in the lockerroom.

Richmond wasn't a good leader either. Does a leader refuse to take a halfcourt shot with one second left because it will affect his overall shooting percentage? I don't think so. Was Tisdale a good leader, God rest his soul, when he put up the Tissy rules in the lockerroom?

I think a leader will emerge from this group. Who it will be is hard to say. Thompson has inferred that he wants to eventually be the leader of the team. Maybe it will be Evans, which wouldn't be unusual for a point guard. Maybe Hawes. But it won't be Martin, and thats not a knock on him.

 

[bloom]

I guess we all have our own opinion on things but I don’t think that Noc is perfect leader for this team. I’d first like to see him on the court next year before I say he’s perfect for this team and is considered a leader…Infact, I rather trade him and not worry about him here.

Gotta agree with you on, Martin is not a leader. I also don't think he should be put down for that. As you point out, not everyone is a leader. Martin is what he is. A good scoring shooting guard. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Richmond without the body and the defense. Richmond wasn't a very good ball handler and wasn't a very good passer. But he did make up for it on defense.

Someone said that leaders are born not made. I firmly believe that. Anyone can step up and say follow me. The trick is getting them to beleive in you and follow. Not everyone has that ability, and sometimes, even the ones that do, don't turn out to be good leaders. Look at the mess Portland got into with the wrong kind of leadership in the lockerroom.

Richmond wasn't a good leader either. Does a leader refuse to take a halfcourt shot with one second left because it will affect his overall shooting percentage? I don't think so. Was Tisdale a good leader, God rest his soul, when he put up the Tissy rules in the lockerroom?

I think a leader will emerge from this group. Who it will be is hard to say. Thompson has inferred that he wants to eventually be the leader of the team. Maybe it will be Evans, which wouldn't be unusual for a point guard. Maybe Hawes. But it won't be Martin, and thats not a knock on him.

I totally agree with you.

There also can be more than one leader, right now Cisco seems like the leader, but it also seems that Hawes and Thompson have that ability to take the team...I can't wait to see if Evans or Casspi have the leadership ability.