Noc wants out.... (merged)

[kennadog]

Your reference of K9 losing his prime years due to his contract is a sort of strawman as well; we all make choices that cause us to lose an opportunity for something. To speak with empathy of him losing his prime because he is in a contract is as much strawman as saying he can get out if he wants.

By choosing to work, you automatically lose X amount of hours everyday. You can say you are losing the prime sun hours of the day. But you get paid. That's how a job works. Some work jobs they hate for the sake of their family, sacrificing their prime years. You can say EVERYONE does X during their life, losing their prime years. I'm not really following why you choose to bring that up. By sleeping, I lose out on a lot of prime drinking time. By waking up in the AM, I lose a lot of prime sleeping time.

That's assuming Noc knew what would happen in the future. I dunno, tho. For may family, I wouldn't pass up a guaranteed $27 million. Odds aren't that good that I will geta job I really love. If I'm going to be unhappy at work, I'd rather get paid $27 million.

 

[kennadog]

But like the Webber deal, we could have been rid of Miller and Salmons this summer. Now we have a contract for another 3 years.

Maybe. We don't know how long we'll have it at the moment.

 

[rainmaker]

I think you're reading things into the interview that simply are not there. I don't see displeasure as much as I see simple frustration...and it's totally understandable.

I don't have a problem with the interview and I understand Noc's point of view. He's not dissing the team, badmouthing the front office, etc. He's acknowledging what every Kings fan has known and/or hoped for... that Andres Nocioni is not a part of the future of the Sacramento Kings. And he's saying that's pretty much the way things go in the NBA.

He's pretty honest in his comments. He wants to play and be part of a team, not just sit on the bench as an observer. I think that's the attitude of most professional athletes.

I wish him well in the future.

I don't have a problem with anything he said, and do understand his fustration with the situation he is in. I posted part of the interview simply because I thought some fans might find it interesting.

I don't think Noc is a problem, or has been a problem. He's a professional, and brings it every night. I just hope for his sake Petrie is able to move him and put him in a better position this summer.

 

[kennadog]

Uhhh....isn't this the same subject being discussed in the Personnel thread?

 

[VF21]

Hrm...good point. Hold on. Merge procedure will be initiated.

EDIT: Merge procedure completed. Resume regular activity.

 

[kennadog]

Hrm...good point. Hold on. Merge procedure will be initiated.

EDIT: Merge procedure completed. Resume regular activity.

Wow, magic!

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

It's all been said already, and the comparisons to KT are valid--he's certainly heading down that slope, seemingly. But the difference is that I felt that KT really lost his ability as his career progressed--his jumper went from reasonable to broke, and his defense was quite bad to begin with being undersized and all. At least in the midst of all that he was still a good rebounder, which is a hustle trait that shows that he wasn't phoning with in.

With Noc...it's hard to tell. I sincerely believe he is phoning it in, between the careless bricks he tosses from the perimeter and the sieve-ish defense he has played this whole season. It's not for a lack of ability either--unlike KT he still is largely the same player he was in Chicago--it's just that his efficiency and effort have plummeted. His numbers might look the same, but his impact is far, far worse. He has played solid D in the past, shot better and really, just looked relevant, and now...it's just the opposite.

This will definitely be a tough situation to wiggle out of--he's not caring, he's squeezed, he's only getting older, and of course, that contract. He obviously doesn't want to be here, and we've tried to ship him earlier in the season to no avail. His March production has been a complete disaster. I think we'll eventually get out of his contract by maybe combining him with a young asset, but for now he is a burden.

 

[kingsnation]

This is an example of another peice of crap deal by the GM that has slowed down our rebuilding. Its sad really.

Agreed. Terrible move all around. And the sad fact about it is that Noc wasn't sold on being here from the beginning. Unless we either were a playoff team or he was our starting 3.

 

[VF21]

I don't think Nocioni was the primary cog in the deal that brought him to Sacramento. He was what we had to take to get the deal done...

 

[sidney]

Your reference of K9 losing his prime years due to his contract is a sort of strawman as well; we all make choices that cause us to lose an opportunity for something. To speak with empathy of him losing his prime because he is in a contract is as much strawman as saying he can get out if he wants.

By choosing to work, you automatically lose X amount of hours everyday. You can say you are losing the prime sun hours of the day. But you get paid. That's how a job works. Some work jobs they hate for the sake of their family, sacrificing their prime years. You can say EVERYONE does X during their life, losing their prime years. I'm not really following why you choose to bring that up. By sleeping, I lose out on a lot of prime drinking time. By waking up in the AM, I lose a lot of prime sleeping time.

huh?

 

[pshn80]

I don't really agree. We got rid of Salmons and Brad Miller with that trade. Salmons and Miller were worse for team development than Nocioni. At least Nocioni's salary goes down every year.

Besides, I think Nocioni is a tradeable player and can be a part of a deal that gets us something we do want.

Completely agree with you. And right now, ironically, I think he is our best small forward. We hope to death that one of the other two develops, and they could, but with all their opportunity to date they haven't yet shown it. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Rockmeister]

It doesn't surprise me. Personally, I really can't stand the guy and I hope he isn't on the team next year.

 

[Heuge]

You're right, Brad Miller and John Salmons were the future of the Kings.

Salmons and Miller are completely besides the point. (Even though, this GM did bring in both. Noc was a bad piece to get for them, it was said at the time and it holds even more true now.

 

[kennadog]

Salmons and Miller are completely besides the point. (Even though, this GM did bring in both. Noc was a bad piece to get for them, it was said at the time and it holds even more true now.

C'mon. Most people around here were ready to trade Miller for a bag of chips at the time. I believe if there was something better, it would have happened. The Kings shopped Brad for quite a while, before making the deal that brought us Noc. Even then, we had to throw in Salmons to get somebody to take Miller.

 

[sidney]

C'mon. Most people around here were ready to trade Miller for a bag of chips at the time. I believe if there was something better, it would have happened. The Kings shopped Brad for quite a while, before making the deal that brought us Noc. Even then, we had to throw in Salmons to get somebody to take Miller.

That is true, although if the rumors are to be believed, the real mistake was not trading Noc back to Boston at the same time for expirings.

In any case, he's not a horrible guy to have around. A year from this July he'll officially be an expiring contract and we should be able to move him then.

 

[Amory]

That is true, although if the rumors are to be believed, the real mistake was not trading Noc back to Boston at the same time for expirings.

This is true. If the rumors were true then it was a huge mistake.

 

[hrdboild]

"For me it is very difficult. Still do not understand what happened. Why there was so much change. Why I found myself playing 30 minutes and suddenly I had to play five, or not to play, or play 10. No, no, I do not know why. So, as I say, sometimes you do not have the answer, "Nocioni said.

I don't really understand this comment. I wonder sometimes if the players are as unaware of the big picture as they pretend to me. It's perfectly obvious to all of us what happened mid-season -- the team went from being a .500 team with a chance to make the playoffs to a lottery team with a chance for a top pick. That changes the priorities quite a bit in terms of who gets playing time and who doesn't. We also saw Omri Casspi unexpectedly blossom with a major role in the rotation and a starring role in All-Star weekend. Former "frachise player" Kevin Martin was traded and current "franchise player" Tyreke Evans took his place. And then Garcia came back and the team has to see how he's going to fit in with these teammates since he's got a longterm contract now. That's a lot of changes all pushing in the direction of going younger and planning for the future. So my question is, if the big picture situation is clear to us as fans, why is it such a mystery to Nocioni as a player? He's around this team and these players every day.

As some others have said, I have no problem with Nocioni's desire to play elsewhere. The team has clearly gone in a different direction and he's not likely to get his starter's minutes back any time soon. But he does make it sound like he was blindsided in some way and I just don't see how that was the case. He should have been able to see that the team needed to develop it's young players now and adjusted his role as a veteran leader. Throughout his NBA career he's been a hardworking bench scrapper, that's how he proves his worth to the team. But at this point, he's got the big multi-year contract and he's one of the older players on this team. He's got nothing left to prove. You could say "this is my game, if you don't need me trade me" or you could make yourself valuable as a teacher and role model to the young guys. In short, make the most of a tough situation. If Nocioni is unhappy with his current role on the team, I think at least part of the blame should be on him. And the same could be said for Kenny Thomas the past three or four years.

 

[VF21]

That is true, although if the rumors are to be believed, the real mistake was not trading Noc back to Boston at the same time for expirings.

In any case, he's not a horrible guy to have around. A year from this July he'll officially be an expiring contract and we should be able to move him then.

A lot of times rumors are just that - rumors. I wouldn't put too much stock into what might have been whispered by agents, towel boys, etc. The thing is Petrie made the deal in front of him...and we moved two contracts virtually no one here was happy with.

Sometimes the revisionist attitude by a few posters (a general assessment not necessarily addressing anyone in particular) towards these personnel matters boggles my mind.

 

[VF21]

I don't really understand this comment. I wonder sometimes if the players are as unaware of the big picture as they pretend to me. It's perfectly obvious to all of us what happened mid-season -- the team went from being a .500 team with a chance to make the playoffs to a lottery team with a chance for a top pick. That changes the priorities quite a bit in terms of who gets playing time and who doesn't. We also saw Omri Casspi unexpectedly blossom with a major role in the rotation and a starring role in All-Star weekend. Former "frachise player" Kevin Martin was traded and current "franchise player" Tyreke Evans took his place. And then Garcia came back and the team has to see how he's going to fit in with these teammates since he's got a longterm contract now. That's a lot of changes all pushing in the direction of going younger and planning for the future. So my question is, if the big picture situation is clear to us as fans, why is it such a mystery to Nocioni as a player? He's around this team and these players every day.

As some others have said, I have no problem with Nocioni's desire to play elsewhere. The team has clearly gone in a different direction and he's not likely to get his starter's minutes back any time soon. But he does make it sound like he was blindsided in some way and I just don't see how that was the case. He should have been able to see that the team needed to develop it's young players now and adjusted his role as a veteran leader. Throughout his NBA career he's been a hardworking bench scrapper, that's how he proves his worth to the team. But at this point, he's got the big multi-year contract and he's one of the older players on this team. He's got nothing left to prove. You could say "this is my game, if you don't need me trade me" or you could make yourself valuable as a teacher and role model to the young guys. In short, make the most of a tough situation. If Nocioni is unhappy with his current role on the team, I think at least part of the blame should be on him. And the same could be said for Kenny Thomas the past three or four years.

I don't think Noc is saying he was blindsided. I think he's saying he doesn't know why life goes in a certain direction at times and opposite directions other times. If you read the whole thing, he seems pretty level-headed about the whole situation. He knows he's not part of the future, he doesn't want to sit on the end of the bench and he hopes he can be moved for everyone's benefit.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I used to tell myself that his fat contract had one justification: "veteran leadership."

Now I got nothin'.

lol.. me too. i thought his defensive intensity would rub off on other players.

 

[hrdboild]

I don't think Noc is saying he was blindsided. I think he's saying he doesn't know why life goes in a certain direction at times and opposite directions other times. If you read the whole thing, he seems pretty level-headed about the whole situation. He knows he's not part of the future, he doesn't want to sit on the end of the bench and he hopes he can be moved for everyone's benefit.

Noted. I would have liked to read the whole article, but I don't understand enough Spanish. Nocioni has never come across to me as being particularly selfish or unmotivated. And I suppose every player in the NBA wants to be a contributor and wants to be in a winning situation. My attitude though is that players don't need to tell reporters that they'd prefer to be traded. They should be self-aware enough to know that's going to get reported and what that means. If you really want to get traded you can work hard, set a good example, and in effect make yourself more desirable to other teams. Nocioni's got two more years on his contract and he's on a team that's starting to get better. If he's a little patient he may find himself with a role on a winning team by staying here. There are probably a lot of worse situations he could be in....

...but on the whole you're right. Not really a big deal. He didn't demand a trade or anything. He didn't throw a tantrum. Just expressing his feelings.

 

[Bricklayer]

Noted. I would have liked to read the whole article, but I don't understand enough Spanish. Nocioni has never come across to me as being particularly selfish or unmotivated. And I suppose every player in the NBA wants to be a contributor and wants to be in a winning situation. My attitude though is that players don't need to tell reporters that they'd prefer to be traded. They should be self-aware enough to know that's going to get reported and what that means. If you really want to get traded you can work hard, set a good example, and in effect make yourself more desirable to other teams. Nocioni's got two more years on his contract and he's on a team that's starting to get better. If he's a little patient he may find himself with a role on a winning team by staying here. There are probably a lot of worse situations he could be in....

...but on the whole you're right. Not really a big deal. He didn't demand a trade or anything. He didn't throw a tantrum. Just expressing his feelings.

Actually this is revisionist -- he absolutely was complaining. Or more properly making excuses/shifting blame. And its not the first time he's done it either -- he was already at it last season after arriving. Always to Spanish language media here I think he has more of an image to uphold. Its part of his rep too -- he's a grumpy guy, not above complaining.

 

[Peja]

Any chance we can screw someone and get some decent player for Noc? Some more consistent shooter for eg.?

 

[NewArena]

Does anyone here even like the guy? He rarely does anything good when he comes in, and he shoots the ball EVERY TIME he freaking touches it. He wants to go? Well we want him to. He makes rookie mistakes that would only be acceptable from Greene and Casspi. Screw Nocioni.

 

[Kingstime]

It does no good to have a vet who is making a ton of money with a contract and doesn't feel he should play behind these younger guys. It makes you value the professionalism Kenny showed all these years, if Nocioni isn't traded he will become a problem for this team in the future sadly, there just isn't anywhere to send him.

 

[Trueblood]

They're nobodies on offense, I'll grant you, but they're LBJ players, especially Graham. As long as he's their coach, they're a better fit than the Argentinian.

Take my word for it, nobody in this board watches more Bobcats games than me: they don't want Nocioni.

They may not WANT Nocioni but may be forced to make a deal like this for economic reasons.

Keep in mind that the Bobcats are sitting at $60 million for next season and that's with Felton and Tyrus Thomas unsigned. Assuming the lux tax is around $66 million, they will need to get rid of salary in order to resign both of them AND get under the lux tax. The TC deal does that for them.

As for the SF's on their roster, I'm talking about for next year. Graham isn't under contract while Brown was a 2nd round pick who most likely has some sort of team option. Their returns are no guarantee.

Lastly, this is all under the assumption that MJ doesn't want to pay the lux tax. Again, just an assumption. If he's willing to bite the bullet for one year then I see no deal but if he remains steadfast against it then he's going to have to take on a bad deal like Noc if he wants to get rid of TC salary for next year. At the end of the day it comes down to who is more important to the future of the Bobcats...TC or Felt and TT?