NEWS: Kings trade Casspi + first rounder for JJ Hickson

[bajaden]

Baja, I'm sorry you're having a bad day and I really do enjoy reading a lot of your posts. I think you are incredibly insightful and very in depth about a lot of basketball stuff. However, it just seems that sometimes you have a hard time just admitting that a player is garbage. And, FYI, I never got personal with Casspi. I never called him names. In fact, I even said I thought he was a good kid who had a big heart. I just think he's very selfish when it comes to basketball. I am entitled to say that.

I never said that I was talking about you in particular. However you did just call him garbage. And its those kind of terms that I don't like. I guess I'm old fashion, but I couldn't call someone a nice kid and then call him garbage at the same time. Your calling him selfish, I have no problem with. I may not totally agree with that assessment, but you could be right. I don't have the ability to know whats going through his mind when he's out there on the floor.

I try to give young players the benefit of the doubt about their intentions. Its a fast game an you sometimes have to make spit second decisions. Young inexperienced players have a tendecy to make bad one's more often than older players do. But, no matter what he intention was, its a mistake none the less. I guess I just get less emotional about a players bad play. I've watched the game so long that I've come to expect it from young players. But I'm not excusing bad play.

The bottom line with me, comes to this. Is the player coachable, and is there enough talent and dedication there to make him worth the effort. If I think so, then I'm willing to put up with more mistakes until he learns. If not, then I try and trade him. In this particular case, either Casspi or Greene had to go. Maybe both.

 

[swisshh]

This is the kind of thinking that makes my head want to explode. It's always somebody else's fault. It's the coaches fault. It's the organization's fault. It's the system's fault. Both Casspi and Greene had MORE than enough opportunities to show what they can do. They played on one of the worst teams in the league where there wasn't much competition for the SF spot. They both failed. Miserably, I might add. They simply aren't good NBA players. One or both of them might become a decent 7th or 8th man someday but that is the extent of it.

Spot up shooting role players DO NEED a system to work in. It's not bull****. That's the NBA game. They aren't ball handlers or self-creators. They fit a role and there's nothing wrong with that. There's many important guys who do that. If you don't have a real offense, they'll go to waste. Right now, the team is fudging around without an offensive system or traditional team makeup because it seems indecisive in what the hell they're trying to do.

 

[Gary]

This was a good trade for the Kings.. We traded equal value (talent for talent) but filled a need and got rid of someone we didn't need. Casspi wouldn;'t have seen much time on this team anyway, and Hickson could give us 30mins a night...

So what would you all rather have? A PF that gives us 30mins a night that can light it up, or a SF that plays 10mins a night that's always pissed off?

 

[Superman]

This is the kind of thinking that makes my head want to explode. It's always somebody else's fault. It's the coaches fault. It's the organization's fault. It's the system's fault. Both Casspi and Greene had MORE than enough opportunities to show what they can do. They played on one of the worst teams in the league where there wasn't much competition for the SF spot. They both failed. Miserably, I might add. They simply aren't good NBA players. One or both of them might become a decent 7th or 8th man someday but that is the extent of it.

I think the way Westphal handle those two players for most of the season was epically bad. One guy would go from starter to 12th man, and back again, maybe get some spot minutes here and there, then back to the end of the bench, then back to starter all of a sudden. And then, when Garcia came back, it was even more crowded, and he wasn't doing much to earn minutes either.

To properly evaluate a young player, I think they should be given a consistent role, with clear benchmarks, and if they aren't performing to expectations or standards, you adjust their role and try to find the best way to use them. That's not what Westphal did. It was impossible to get a good read on either guy last season because there was no rhyme or reason to the rotations.

I don't like Casspi's attitude going into last season, and I think to be used properly, he needs regular burn and regular touches. He didn't get that consistently last season, so his poor showing can at least partially be blamed on the coaching.

 

[swisshh]

Hickson doesn't always light it up. He's very inconsistent, much like Casspi and Greene. He'll have a big game and then do nothing much for you in the next three or four games. It will be tough for him to get constant minutes with Westphal as coach and due to his up n down play. One night Hickson will go off for 30 points, and then give you 10 points on 40% shooting the next.

 

[FaStRmAn]

I think Hickson starts at PF. He is better than JT both defensively and offensively. I don't think this will preclude the Kings from doing what they said they would and become players in the free agent market. Trades and Free Agency are 2 different things. The trades they have made havent used up all the cap space they had. They are still in great position to be players in the free agent market.

 

[hrdboild]

This is the kind of thinking that makes my head want to explode. It's always somebody else's fault. It's the coaches fault. It's the organization's fault. It's the system's fault. Both Casspi and Greene had MORE than enough opportunities to show what they can do. They played on one of the worst teams in the league where there wasn't much competition for the SF spot. They both failed. Miserably, I might add. They simply aren't good NBA players. One or both of them might become a decent 7th or 8th man someday but that is the extent of it.

No it's not all the coaches fault, but when a guy doesn't improve after two years I start to question why we have a full team of coaches in the first place. Sure you could point the finger at a player's work ethic, but that's just speculation. That happens off the court. What I saw on the court was a carousel of starters at the SF position followed by Casspi getting inexplicably benched for half the season. It's not entirely the coaches' fault or Casspi's fault, I just think the holes in Casspi's game are not fatal flaws, they're correctable ones. And I don't like to make assertions about a player's future career when they're only 22 years old.

It's not true that there was no competition at the SF spot. Casspi had to compete with Nocioni, Greene, Udoka, and Garcia at SF in his rookie year and he emerged as the most productive player of the group. Then last year he had to compete for minutes at SF with Greene, Garcia, and at times Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, and Tyreke Evans. If there was a solid veteran in the starting spot that might have actually helped the situation. Instead we had a big mess of players and a coach who constantly tinkered so that no one got a fair shot at being the starter, and the first guy off the bench changed from night to night. He was still the best three point shooter on the team last year despite his other struggles.

And I was fully in the "trade Casspi" camp so I'm not trying to build him up as something he's not. We had to pick one of him or Greene to move forward and I like Greene a little bit better for various reasons. But I'm not jumping for joy that we basically swapped him out for a younger Carl Landry and gave up another pick in the process. It's not a given that what we gave up in this trade won't eventually outperform what we got back.

 

[cuad]

He is better than JT both defensively and offensively.

I'm going to dig up a collection of quotes from people who actually watched the Cavaliers and their thoughts on JJ Hicksons "defense" and kwame brown hands, just for you.

 

[Return To Glory]

I think the way Westphal handle those two players for most of the season was epically bad. One guy would go from starter to 12th man, and back again, maybe get some spot minutes here and there, then back to the end of the bench, then back to starter all of a sudden. And then, when Garcia came back, it was even more crowded, and he wasn't doing much to earn minutes either.

To properly evaluate a young player, I think they should be given a consistent role, with clear benchmarks, and if they aren't performing to expectations or standards, you adjust their role and try to find the best way to use them. That's not what Westphal did. It was impossible to get a good read on either guy last season because there was no rhyme or reason to the rotations.

I don't like Casspi's attitude going into last season, and I think to be used properly, he needs regular burn and regular touches. He didn't get that consistently last season, so his poor showing can at least partially be blamed on the coaching.

I completely agree. I hope Casspi will get a more even coaching experience in Cleveland. As for Westy, I just hope he coaches better this upcoming season (?).

 

[ParniValjak]

I wish Casspi al the best and hope he finds what he is looking for with the Cavs but from our perspective this trade was a no brainer!!!!

If we can re-sign Dalembert or replace him with Chandler or Jordan then we would have one of the best frontcourts in the league.

In a space of a week, we traded 1 spot starter and a bench player for 1 starter and one spot starter. We got an upgrade in talent and addressed some holes on the roster. Casspi was seriously going to struggle for playing time next season with us and his game and personality meant that he was not going to be a willing energy guy off the bench. He wanted to be a starter and get his shot, something he will get with the Cavs,

If we didn't trade Omri in the off-season, he was going to have no value what so ever by the trade deadline.

A no brainer trade from my perspective.

 

[Return To Glory]

Thats the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. I criticize players all the time. I just don't choose to make it a personal issue. I've criticized Casspi, Greene, Westpahl, Evans, Cousins, Dalembert, Petrie, Beno, and Cisco. Just because I do it in a civilized manner doesn't make it less of a criticism. I also try and point out when others that are criticizing are wrong. Its one thing to take note of a players defiencies, its quite another to call him a slug, or a worthless piece of crap, or imply that the player can't do anything right. Thats just ignorant crap!!!!!!!!!!!!

So if you think I don't criticize players, your just not paying attention. I just did a critique of Hickson, and I pointed out that he's not a very good passer. Thats called a criticism. Comprende? Now I'll admit to being in a very very very foul mood today. I've had some things go wrong, that are unreparable, so if I'm a little rude, I apologize. But I'm not in the mood for crap, and having my integrity questioned.

As yes, I'am a positive person, and I have no use for negative people, and in my personal life, I won't associate with such people. When I was in the marine corps, the last person I wanted in a foxhole with me was someone that was screaming, "We're all going to die".

Hey Baja, I haven't been posting on this site very much, but I have enjoyed reading your thoughts on basketball and life for many years. I really hope your day gets better. =)

 

[Kings Faithful]

I'm going to dig up a collection of quotes from people who actually watched the Cavaliers and their thoughts on JJ Hicksons "defense" and kwame brown hands, just for you.

To be honest, I give fans of other teams zero credibility when it comes to describing players they just traded away. They told me Dalemberts game was so frustrating and boneheaded we shouldn't even bother with him, now he is one of the most sought after FA's this year. I heard that Artest would explode in our face and take down this franchise single handedly... he partially redeemed his image and brought us to the playoffs against all odds. I heard that Thornton was terribly inconsistent and plays no defense.... neither of which was the case while on the Kings. The list goes further than that. Fans tend to undervalue the players they just traded away and overrate the incoming players in order to make themselves the winners of trades
Some of us are guilty of this as well, but not as much as I've seen on other fan sites. So funny seeing the sixers fans claim that Hawes is the "Center of the future!".

 

[Kings Faithful]

Hickson doesn't always light it up. He's very inconsistent, much like Casspi and Greene. He'll have a big game and then do nothing much for you in the next three or four games. It will be tough for him to get constant minutes with Westphal as coach and due to his up n down play. One night Hickson will go off for 30 points, and then give you 10 points on 40% shooting the next.

In the second half of the season he was actually pretty consistent.... especially on the boards...

 

[rainmaker]

To be honest, I give fans of other teams zero credibility when it comes to describing players they just traded away. They told me Dalemberts game was so frustrating and boneheaded we shouldn't even bother with him, now he is one of the most sought after FA's this year. I heard that Artest would explode in our face and take down this franchise single handedly... he partially redeemed his image and brought us to the playoffs against all odds. I heard that Thornton was terribly inconsistent and plays no defense.... neither of which was the case while on the Kings. The list goes further than that. Fans tend to undervalue the players they just traded away and overrate the incoming players in order to make themselves the winners of trades
Some of us are guilty of this as well, but not as much as I've seen on other fan sites. So funny seeing the sixers fans claim that Hawes is the "Center of the future!".

Completely agree. People on here can't even agree on our own players, and we discuss just about everything year round, and watch every game. I put zero stock in what another fan says about their players.

If we hypothetically traded Reke tomorrow, which we obviously won't or can't, just imagine all the varying opinions we'd hear here alone. Then imagine a fan of the team he was traded to coming here and wanting to learn what we see in Reke as a player. They would leave more confused than when they came. Hell, I don't even trust what ESPN says most of the time.

 

[rainmaker]

Hickson doesn't always light it up. He's very inconsistent, much like Casspi and Greene. He'll have a big game and then do nothing much for you in the next three or four games. It will be tough for him to get constant minutes with Westphal as coach and due to his up n down play. One night Hickson will go off for 30 points, and then give you 10 points on 40% shooting the next.

Not true. Here you go making things up again to fit an agenda. How do I know that you ask? I'm sitting here looking at JJ's game logs for the entire season. He became more and more consistent as the season went on, numbers continued to improve, and the "fall off" games were seen much less. But you can't expect a 22 yr old to never show inconsistency the first time in a new role.

Now, show me the numbers you're looking at, where you actually see a legit comparison between the consistency of JJ vs Omri/Donte. I'm assuming you're looking at a different set of game logs, unless you're just making everything up, but from what I'm looking at, Hickson was more consistent than anyone on our team outside of Beno.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I'm late to this party, but I like this trade for a couple reasons. The first is it's insurance if Dally does split, we have 3 seasoned big's and Whiteside (whom I'm still pulling for as a potential defensive anchor in the future) and in case Dally doesn't split we have a good 4 man rotation + the whiteside project. I feel comfortable if JT and JJ are competing against each other for minutes. They're both young cheap players with good value in case we like one more than the other for a trade.

This is a start at cleaning up some wing players - Casspi was a solid young player but Cleveland should be a better place for him as he'll get plenty of play time.

Hickson has his pro's and his con's - however a Con of him not passing well I would rather see how he interacts here before I give him too much grief about it. Here he will have DMC, Reke, Jimmer, and Thorton he should be able to reliably turn to along with Garcia, Salmons, JT, Donte.

 

[Sac.1989]

Great move. Good fit offensively next to DC. Defense will be an issue clearly but im glad we added another young promising player here. Now to target bringing back Dally or a defensive inside presence. Our bigs and guard rotations are taking shape. SF is sorted

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

My problem with Casspi was that from the minute he stepped on an NBA floor, he could do two things at an NBA level - Rebound and shoot (although very streaky). He hasnt improved in one other area since then.

He gives a solid defensive effort, but doesnt get any results. He has absolutely no handling ability, no ability to create for others, no ability to attack the basket. He was essentially a streaky shooter with the energy to rebound, and just not craft enough to defend.

I can see him improving his defense and becoming more consistent from three. At his highest point he can be a starting roleplayer on a decent team. Rebounder, shooter, defender. Sounds like a guy we could use, but he wouldnt get the chance to become that here, and you can find guys like him. You can find Omri Casspi's.

Hickson is a better player with a higher ceiling, who has actually improved in specific areas since he was drafted.

Petrie really is a hard GM to get a read on. Some of his moves are great, some of them are very confusing, some seem terrible at the beggining and then look OK. He's a hard guy to evaluate.

 

[ESP47]

We need to get together and buy a billboard to try and get Dalembert to come back. Just think of Dally/Cousins/Hickson/Thompson. We would lead the league in rebounds. If we can get Dalembert back, were going to be 7th/8th seed in the playoffs. I love this trade but I don't think we can compete without Dalembert out there.

Check out Hickson's stats for the last two months. Double doubles galore and his assists went way up.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I don't know too much about Hickson and I had high hopes for Casspi, so i'm a little disappointed. i'd have rather seen Donte Greene go. it makes sense for the team though because it adds needed front court depth and frees up space at SF.

 

[Anthony1]

I have a few questions about this trade that I'm hoping somebody knows the answer to:

1. How many years are left on Hickson's contract? Just one year and then a team option (so basically 2 years) ?

2. If we loose the entire season to a lockout, do we still have two years with Hickson?

Assuming we have Hickson for at least two more years, and assuming they don't get our No.1 in 2012 or 2013, then I think I'm ok with this deal.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I like the trade for both teams. And the lottery pick we packaged is nicely protected.
Good thing, we still got enough cash for 2-3 big signings.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I like the trade for both teams. And the lottery pick we packaged is nicely protected.
Good thing, we still got enough cash for 2-3 big signings.

Well, no one will be quite sure how much Cap Room we'll have post CBA. One thing is for sure, we have positioned ourself nicely with upgrading the roster very nicely and for relatively cheap. We will have a lot of wiggle room after the Cap is set, and if the cap is set low, we will be in prime position to offer some sign and trades of quality cheap players for some potentially good players on with bigger salary then a team might be able to handle.

 

[cuad]

I have a few questions about this trade that I'm hoping somebody knows the answer to:

1. How many years are left on Hickson's contract? Just one year and then a team option (so basically 2 years) ?

2. If we loose the entire season to a lockout, do we still have two years with Hickson?

Assuming we have Hickson for at least two more years, and assuming they don't get our No.1 in 2012 or 2013, then I think I'm ok with this deal.

all the salary information you could ever want http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/cavaliers.jsp

 

[Telemachus]

I really like this trade for the Kings. They improved their front court (which was needed ) while thinning out their SF ranks, and did it without really affecting their cap space. What I don't understand is what Cleveland is thinking. They had a good opportunity to improve their team with 2 high lottery picks this year. Taking Irving was a no-brainer with #1 pick, but I question taking Tristan Thompson with the 4th. I liked Thompson at Texas this season, but felt he needed another year of college. His game is very raw and he needs to get bigger & stronger. IMO he is a project that will take 2-3 years to find out if he can become a good player. That being said, I don't see his potenial as being higher than Hickson's. They could have just taken Jan Veseley with the 4th pick and filled their need at SF. I happen to think that Veseley will be a better NBA player than Casspi anyway.

I happy for the Kings and think this makes them a better team, but would be scratching my head if I was a fan of the Cavs.

 

[ParniValjak]

Well, no one will be quite sure how much Cap Room we'll have post CBA. One thing is for sure, we have positioned ourself nicely with upgrading the roster very nicely and for relatively cheap. We will have a lot of wiggle room after the Cap is set, and if the cap is set low, we will be in prime position to offer some sign and trades of quality cheap players for some potentially good players on with bigger salary then a team might be able to handle.

If the cap comes down, as seems likely, then the player salaries will have to come down as well so player that would have had $10m per season offers might not be getting anywhere near that. What ever happens, we will still have most of the salary cap space than any other team out there putting us in prime position to secure a good player.

The way the way the roster is set at the moment, I would be pretty happy if we just re-signed our own 2 free agents and added a veteran guard to play behind Fredette or is capable of playing more minutes if Fredette is not ready for major minutes from game 1.

 

[mac]

IMO: We traded a spare SF for a PF we could use, who happens to have decent potential. It doesn't matter if he's inconsistent scoring and all, we're not bringing JJ hickson here to be a top scorer. If we are, God help us all.

 

[SacTownKid]

We need to get together and buy a billboard to try and get Dalembert to come back. Just think of Dally/Cousins/Hickson/Thompson. We would lead the league in rebounds. If we can get Dalembert back, were going to be 7th/8th seed in the playoffs. I love this trade but I don't think we can compete without Dalembert out there.

Check out Hickson's stats for the last two months. Double doubles galore and his assists went way up.

But if there were issues with a Daly/Cousins/Landry/Thompson front line, why would this not experience the same exact issues. Thompson goes back to non-existent after this trade.

 

[NowImLost]

We should've asked for Harangody..

 

[Boogie-havoc]

Well Casspi's arrival was my reason for supporting the Kings so on one hand it sucks to see him leave - on the other hand though, even without Casspi I became a Kings fan and got connected to this ball-club in a wierd way and will still follow&cheer for the team, so on the teams prespective this is a great trade and one that benefits us.

Omri will get his chance to show his worth with imo a better coach with better gameplan and system.. I still doubt him - but I can see his off the ball game and overall offence improove with the Cavs... on defence coach Scott might make a diffrence on him.. Casspi is a willing learner and doesn't lack effort so maybe all he needs is the right guidance to become an acceptable defender in the league. anyways i'm glad for him and it will clearly be a better place for him personally.. i'll surely follow him and wish him good.


As for the Kings - we got the better talent, and prolly won't give that pick till 2013 or 2014 anyways.. I don't know much about Hickson but he really doesn't look like a great fit with Cousins.. i'm just hoping like everyone else that we'll get a defensive presence and that the FO won't go cheap on defence and understand it's worth paying for more then offence.

Reke, Jimmer, MT, JJ, Cousins.. looking good baby