New arena cost revealed at near $400M

[kennadog]

I want to be optimistic, I really do, but I just don't how on earth we are going to up come up with the amount of money that's required with a city that's extremely in debt...
I want to believe, but I'm trying to keep my heart separate from my brain...
My heart says an arena will get build, but the logical part of my brain thinks that there's no way we can get an arena built with the Debt and the arena cost.... This is one time in life that I really really hope that I'm wrong

LEED may or may not be achievable, by a lot of governement funding comes with green building requirements now.

More details should be available at the meeting tomorrow, but possible financing sources mentioned in the article (emphasis mine):

User fees, like ticket surchages or higher parking fees, as well as new hotel or rental car taxes are among financing options outlined in the report, according to multiple sources who say they have been briefed by Taylor.

Remember the city won't be financing the total cost. There has to be some private funding.That's already been made quite clear. Also, the city is supposedly going to own the arena this time, not the franchise. That's the way most arenas are now, oncluding the one's in Orlando, Anaheim and Indiannapolis, to name a few. The franchise will lease the arena from the city. So the city technically won't be donating the land to anybody but themselves.

 

[kennadog]

I agree with this bit, but also I caution against others who think size will indicate greatness (not that you have made this remark). I think the creation of an arena will stimulate and revitalize THIS area, and THIS community, and as such, it needs to be well-done the first time. It can be an arena with a smaller footprint, and still have the impact necessary to stimulate and revitalize, especially if it is downtown.

Totally agree with this. And the Sacramento Convention and Tourism Board has stated they already know they can get more conventions if a new arena is built downtown. So you'd have an area anchored by the Convention and Community Center at one end and the arena and the rail yards at the other. It could really boost that stretch of K street as well as the rail yards. (K St will be converting back to a street, instead of a pedestrian mall.)

 

[Section 101]

I wish I knew the finances involved in building such an arena. I presume I am not alone in this.

I see Sacramento as a city with no identity. It has nothing to draw tourists. It is a stop off for people heading elsewhere. As such it will never draw huge conventions on the one hand or the casual tourist on the other. The rail road yards offer a place to build multiple buildings that could be a convention/tourist attraction. The city is in trouble with a high unemployment rate and pretty soon people will be leaving if they already aren't. People SHOULD be leaving as they need to make a living.

Sacramento needs to become attractive to businesses and people.

My thoughts may be a bit pie in the sky but ideally for the city, something spectacular should be built. The arena and other buildings could be constructed around it to create a large attraction for the citizens of the area and also a place that might attract tourists. I am basing this idea on what was done in St. Paul and I am sure people are tired of hearing this. They built an arena, a convention hall, a museum, a theater, and parking surrounded by parks and other niceties. Most of these entities already had existed in various unconnected parts of St. Paul but the old buildings were torn down or converted to something else and new buildings were built in one central area. This a place to go in a city that had nothing attractive to visit until now. They attracted the Republican National Convention. That's major $$$ for St. Paul and not Minneaplis for those who might see these Twin Cities as one entity. They aren't.

My vision would be either to build something noteworthy as an arena which might be more expensive than already mentioned or as a bigger project, have a long range plan to have a convention center, etc. This would attract tourists and not just be a great place for young people to go at night. Heck, move the zoo. I don't know. There already is Old Sac in the area as well as a world class railroad museum. This is a start but not a major tourist magnet. These are simply places that we show visitors when we show them the city.

Make this area a place where outsiders might be willing to visit. Perhaps the arena would be more expensive but the arena in St. Paul which probably is not up to NBA standards yet is up to NHL standards cost $130 million 10 years ago. There is an opportunity for Sacramento, the city and the area, to become something different than the sleepy town it is that cannot attract enough business to employ its citizens to something else. To clarify, the arena could be noteworthy which I think is unlikely or the immediate vicinity needs to be noteworthy.

Start with the arena but don't stop there. I think the citizens would be more onboard with this idea as building an arena has been short sightedly slammed as a gift to billionaires.

From what I have seen, the will or vision is not here. Perhaps KJ will have an impact on the view of the area. This is my hope. He has the charisma for want of a better word to get things moving and not just sit back and let this city rot.

Bottom line: build a spectacular arena or have a predetermined plan to create an area that can draw people from far and wide.

My opinion is based on an on incomplete knowledge of downtown Sacramento, the state of the zoo, whether it is practical to move Crocker and the convention center but Sacramento looks like St. Paul 20 yars ago. It is more moved by the "oh, my goodness" reaction I had to downtown St. Paul when I drove through a few years ago. The city was transformed. Sacramento needs to be transformed.

Imagine all those entities within closs proximity. The whole becomes greater than each individual part as visitors to one might become visitors to the other. As it is, that is not so.

http://sacramentorailyards.com/home/home.htm

It's already planned.

 

[JB_kings]

http://www.news10.net/news/article/139261/29/Maloofs-will-do-whatever-works-to-get-arena-built

SACRAMENTO, CA - The owners of the Sacramento Kings say they're willing to take whatever role is necessary in order to facilitate building a new arena.

Joe and Gavin Maloof spoke outside a fan's home after they delivered courtside seat tickets to Don Babcock, a fan since 1986.

The feasibility study to build a new entertainment and sports complex will be presented to the Sacramento City Council Thursday at 1 p.m. News10.net will carry a live stream of the presentation.

Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson is already discussing parts of the study though -- including one scenario which has the Maloofs as tenants, not operators.

"We'll look and see what happens," said Joe Maloof. "There's two or three different approaches that we could take and (we) really haven't sat down and evaluated those but we'll look at it and see what happens."

When asked what his preference was, he said, "Doesn't matter. Whatever works. We're here to make it work and make it happen and that's all that we care about."

The Maloofs, with the blessing of the NBA, have all but promised the Kings will move if plans for a new arena aren't ready by March, 2012.

Wednesday afternoon Gavin Maloof said he was cautiously optimistic.

"We want to make this work and we think now the political will is here, and the public will is here, and that will lead to great things and hopefully to a new arena," he said. "We all need it. It's not just for Joe and Gavin Maloof, it's for the entire community. We're not the only two people that attend arena events."

As for the size of the arena, which could be on the site of the downtown Sacramento railyards, Mayor Johnson said it'll be close to 700,000 square feet, much smaller than the venue proposed in 2006.

Both Maloofs said they were fine with that.

"We just want something that's state of the art, that's feasible for this area," Gavin Maloof said. "We know it can't be the biggest arena in the world but we don't want it to be the smallest, either. So it just has to be adequate for our demographics and our market."

Cost estimates going around for the arena are somewhere between $350 million and $395 million.

 

[Trueblood]

Actually, Sacramento being a small market works in our favor when considering size of the arena and I have to be thankful for the Maloofs as well for wanting a "cozier" arena.

While Conseco and FedEx Forum are great buildings, they have multi tiered suites that push the upper deck fans way the heck up there and that has contributed to low attendance for those teams. Nobody wants to sit way up there when they can watch at home for free. The fact that these teams are in small markets make it even more of a head scratcher. Since there are going to be less businesses to own and lease suites in a small market as opposed to a large one, it usually makes sense to just have a single tier which brings the fans down a level. This has worked really well in Portland, OKC, New Orleans, Utah and San Antonio. Older buildings in Minnesota and Milwaukee have the single tier as well.

Also, single tier suites mean less concourses. Don't get me wrong. One single concourse that's cramped like what we have now is a disaster but a 3 concourse building, meaning one for the lower bowl, one for the suite level and one for the upper bowl would be perfect for Sacramento. More importantly, it brings the cost down so now you can throw more money into other revenue generating aspects of a building.

 

[Livinthedream]

More details here.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/05/25/arena-report-387-million/

I thought this was interesting and what I figured would come out in the study.

"Surprisingly, when asked how much cheaper it would be to build the arena in Natomas, KHTK was informed that it would be only 1.3 percent cheaper, which comes out to just over 5 million."

 

[=LarryLegend=]

 

[kennadog]

More details here.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/05/25/arena-report-387-million/

I thought this was interesting and what I figured would come out in the study.

"Surprisingly, when asked how much cheaper it would be to build the arena in Natomas, KHTK was informed that it would be only 1.3 percent cheaper, which comes out to just over 5 million."

I thought that was interesting, too. If you watch Carmichawel Dave's reading of the executive summary, a couple of things were interesting to me.

1) Construction costs estimated at $241 million, soft costs at $146 million. The city already has a lot of federal and state funds committed to infrastructure improvements in the rail yards. They don't see that as a significant issue.

2) Arco currently has 10,000 parking places.Within 1/2 mile of the proposed arena site downtown, there are already 8,000 parking places in current parking garages.

 

[Mike0476]

I thought that was interesting, too. If you watch Carmichawel Dave's reading of the executive summary, a couple of things were interesting to me.

1) Construction costs estimated at $241 million, soft costs at $146 million. The city already has a lot of federal and state funds committed to infrastructure improvements in the rail yards. They don't see that as a significant issue.

2) Arco currently has 10,000 parking places.Within 1/2 mile of the proposed arena site downtown, there are already 8,000 parking places in current parking garages.

Parking is a non issue if you ask me.

I have been to Staples three times now in two trips. My hotel was about a 15 minute walk to Staples Center. It's not a big deal to walk.

When I traveled to Philadelphia, I had to take a cab because there were no hotels near the arena. There was nothing near the arena. It's kind of like Natomas but with far less. You do get a nice view of Downtown Philadelphia but that's it.

When the arena is built I will be taking light rail. This will be fun.

 

[kennadog]

Parking is a non issue if you ask me.

I have been to Staples three times now in two trips. My hotel was about a 15 minute walk to Staples Center. It's not a big deal to walk.

When I traveled to Philadelphia, I had to take a cab because there were no hotels near the arena. There was nothing near the arena. It's kind of like Natomas but with far less. You do get a nice view of Downtown Philadelphia but that's it.

When the arena is built I will be taking light rail. This will be fun.

Light rail would definitely be my preference, too. I took the El train to the United Center in Chicago. It was about two or three blocks to walk. No problem and actually much nicer than trying to leave an event center from a parking lot, almost anywhere. Arco has no viable public transit to it, not even RT buses. And the planned light rail route wouldn't bring you very close either. Way too much poorly-lighted parking lot to cover and really no safe pedestrian walkways, anyway. It's completely car oriented and isolates the arena on a large island of asphalt..

 

[Section 101]

Parking is a non issue if you ask me.

I have been to Staples three times now in two trips. My hotel was about a 15 minute walk to Staples Center. It's not a big deal to walk.

When I traveled to Philadelphia, I had to take a cab because there were no hotels near the arena. There was nothing near the arena. It's kind of like Natomas but with far less. You do get a nice view of Downtown Philadelphia but that's it.

When the arena is built I will be taking light rail. This will be fun.

Going to disagree here. Going to a few games and walking is no big deal. When you have season tickets and go to 30+ games it is a big deal. Especially if you are taking older people or young kids. Add in rain and wind it becomes a bigger issue. Now if they have light rail or street cars from the parking to the arena the problem is solved.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Going to disagree here. Going to a few games and walking is no big deal. When you have season tickets and go to 30+ games it is a big deal. Especially if you are taking older people or young kids. Add in rain and wind it becomes a bigger issue. Now if they have light rail or street cars from the parking to the arena the problem is solved.

I think plan is to have about 1,400 parking spaces put in directly adjacent to proposed new arena plus take advantage of parking currently set up for under construction fed courthouse at site. Apparently, those spots will mostly be reserved for VIPs, Kings season tix holders, along with big unloading docks, etc. The around 8,000 or so parking spaces within a half-mile of proposed new arena are much closer to railyards than that longest distance it's said. But I agree, if raining I would not want to walk in any bad weather very far at all.

 

[Mike0476]

I think plan is to have about 1,400 parking spaces put in directly adjacent to proposed new arena plus take advantage of parking currently set up for under construction fed courthouse at site. Apparently, those spots will mostly be reserved for VIPs, Kings season tix holders, along with big unloading docks, etc. The around 8,000 or so parking spaces within a half-mile of proposed new arena are much closer to railyards than that longest distance it's said. But I agree, if raining I would not want to walk in any bad weather very far at all.

This is why I feel parking is not an issue.

If the picture holds true, I'll be on light rail that will drop me off in front of the arena.

 

[Livinthedream]

Been to the Verizon Center in DC where the Metro stops right underneath the arena and a couple more stops are within a few blocks. Went to Time Warner arena in Charlotte as well and the light rail station is directly in front of the Arena. In both cases, I felt less rushed to beat traffic and loitered around a little bit after the games. These arenas are both in the middle of the city and that is great for businesses in the area on game nights.

I don't even mind the little trek from the BART station to Oracle arena. Better than being bumper to bumper idling in the parking lot. There will be VIP parking at our arena and will have to have some handicap parking as well.

 

[Mike0476]

Been to the Verizon Center in DC where the Metro stops right underneath the arena and a couple more stops are within a few blocks. Went to Time Warner arena in Charlotte as well and the light rail station is directly in front of the Arena. In both cases, I felt less rushed to beat traffic and loitered around a little bit after the games. These arenas are both in the middle of the city and that is great for businesses in the area on game nights.

I don't even mind the little trek from the BART station to Oracle arena. Better than being bumper to bumper idling in the parking lot. There will be VIP parking at our arena and will have to have some handicap parking as well.

I have not been to those arenas you have mentioned except for Oakland. I did take BART from SF to catch the Prince concert. It was not that bad at all but I did have to drive back to Sacramento from SF.

My buddy raved about DC's arena and how he didn't need to take a cab or bus thanks to their metro system.

I didn't care for Philadelphia's location of their arena. It's in the same area as their football and baseball stadiums, which in a way is cool but there's nothing else out there except for a nice view of a distant Downtown Philadelphia.

Staples Center is the way to do it with their LA Live but with light rail stopping in front or near by the arena. When the arena is finally built, I'll be taking light rail.

 

[Livinthedream]

I have not been to those arenas you have mentioned except for Oakland. I did take BART from SF to catch the Prince concert. It was not that bad at all but I did have to drive back to Sacramento from SF.

My buddy raved about DC's arena and how he didn't need to take a cab or bus thanks to their metro system.

I didn't care for Philadelphia's location of their arena. It's in the same area as their football and baseball stadiums, which in a way is cool but there's nothing else out there except for a nice view of a distant Downtown Philadelphia.

Staples Center is the way to do it with their LA Live but with light rail stopping in front or near by the arena. When the arena is finally built, I'll be taking light rail.

I bet you loved that Prince concert. I heard that he gives one of the bests concerts you can go to.

I definitely will be taking light rail to the games too. When I first saw Time Warner Cable Arena, I wanted it for Sacramento because of location. The light rail runs right up to the front. On the other side of the light rail tracks, there is a huge parking garage, but it's connected to a large open air mall. Like the Downtown Plaza, only better. The mall contains restaurants and night clubs. So no matter how you get to the game, you will be sandwiched between an arena and an entertainment district when you step out.

I'm sure this is what the railyard planners are envisioning.

 

[Mike0476]

I bet you loved that Prince concert. I heard that he gives one of the bests concerts you can go to.

Prince was awesome in concert, but I have to admit that watching Sir Paul McCartney perform live at AT&T Park last July was the best concert experience for me. I wish we had the new arena already so we could have watched them both perform in our city.

I definitely will be taking light rail to the games too. When I first saw Time Warner Cable Arena, I wanted it for Sacramento because of location. The light rail runs right up to the front. On the other side of the light rail tracks, there is a huge parking garage, but it's connected to a large open air mall. Like the Downtown Plaza, only better. The mall contains restaurants and night clubs. So no matter how you get to the game, you will be sandwiched between an arena and an entertainment district when you step out.

I'm sure this is what the railyard planners are envisioning.

I am hoping for that kind of vision too for our city and its residents. We deserve this.

 

[Trueblood]

Parking is a non issue if you ask me.

I have been to Staples three times now in two trips. My hotel was about a 15 minute walk to Staples Center. It's not a big deal to walk.

When I traveled to Philadelphia, I had to take a cab because there were no hotels near the arena. There was nothing near the arena. It's kind of like Natomas but with far less. You do get a nice view of Downtown Philadelphia but that's it.

When the arena is built I will be taking light rail. This will be fun.

If you go back to Philly, there is actually a Holiday Inn right behind the Phillies Stadium, which is on the same lot as the arena and the Eagle crib. Also, they have a subway that takes you right from downtown to that sports complex lot. Saves a ton of dough. I'm guessing the cabbie charged you over $20?

 

[Mike0476]

If you go back to Philly, there is actually a Holiday Inn right behind the Phillies Stadium, which is on the same lot as the arena and the Eagle crib. Also, they have a subway that takes you right from downtown to that sports complex lot. Saves a ton of dough. I'm guessing the cabbie charged you over $20?

I stayed at the Aloft Philadelphia Airport Hotel.

We took a cab so we wouldn't be late to meet up with some friends.

 

[kennadog]

If you have kids or elderly, in many cases you can drop them off and then park, if it doesn't leave them alone. I've certainly done that plenty of times myself. When I went to the United Center in Chicago, there was parking nearby, similar to what's available near the rail yard site. A ton of people walked to the El train a couple of blocks away and there was public buses one after another picking people up right in front of the arena. And it was the dead of winter when I went. Heavy coats, boots, hats, mufflers, long underwear. Believe me, if people in the windy (and freezing) city can walk around their city at night, it should be easy for Sacramentans to deal with weather here. When's the last time we had snow, ice and well-below-freezing temperatures?

Californians are far too wedded to their cars. As they said at the meeting, that's a suburban perspective and a downtown arena is an urban one. A great many New Yorkers don't even own cars. Its too expensive to garage them in the city. Besides, I'd rather walk a couple of blocks in a vibrant city atmosphere than walk to the outer dim edges of the Arco arena lots, which is not friendly for the elderly or kids either.

I feel more vulnerable walking to my car at Arco than I felt walking back to my hotel from Staples with tons of people walking around and enjoying the evening and the restaurants, nightclubs, bars and bowling alley located in LA Live. There's a movie theater in the neighborhood, too. When I looked out my hotel window, there were still a lot of people out and about walking around LA Live and obviously having a good time.

The ICON folks said they usually look at parking within one mile of the arena. They found plenty of parking going only 1/2 mile from the arena. On top of that, they pointed out that there is likely to be parking needed with the rail yard development and they could could coordinate that with Inland. There's likely to be a parking structure associated with the new Federal Courthouse that would be empty evenings and weekends, for example.

Plenty of folks can't drive or choose not, too. Having public transport available is one of the pluses of the downtown site and one of the biggest negatives to the Natomas site. Although the plan for Natomas showed the new arena being placed right next to the road to the South to make it more visible and accessible,; something it is definitely not, right now.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

If you have kids or elderly, in many cases you can drop them off and then park, if it doesn't leave them alone. I've certainly done that plenty of times myself. When I went to the United Center in Chicago, there was parking nearby, similar to what's available near the rail yard site. A ton of people walked to the El train a couple of blocks away and there was public buses one after another picking people up right in front of the arena. And it was the dead of winter when I went. Heavy coats, boots, hats, mufflers, long underwear. Believe me, if people in the windy (and freezing) city can walk around their city at night, it should be easy for Sacramentans to deal with weather here. When's the last time we had snow, ice and well-below-freezing temperatures?

Great points, kenna. The one thing that I hope arises from this arena's development is a concurrent expansion of the light rail system throughout Sacramento. I think that making it a more viable transportation entity for more areas would make it a very popular choice for going downtown for entertainment. Many benefits to using it, including the fact that you wouldn't need to even think about parking except at the local LR station, no need for a designated driver , and no traffic to deal with.

 

[kennadog]

For a while I was able to commute to work by light rail. I did drive to the station to catch it, rather than taking a bus. It was wonderful to read or talk and just relax going to and from work. I, too, hope its expanded to more and more areas.

 

[Section 101]

For a while I was able to commute to work by light rail. I did drive to the station to catch it, rather than taking a bus. It was wonderful to read or talk and just relax going to and from work. I, too, hope its expanded to more and more areas.

Here's where I see the problem. You have lightraid down 50 and 80 which is great. But in between getting to a lightrail station you will be halfway or more to the arena. I think alot of people forget about highway 160 which goes right to the railyards. This is the route alot of the people will be taking to the arena and it wont be light rail.

 

[Glenn]

Here's where I see the problem. You have lightraid down 50 and 80 which is great. But in between getting to a lightrail station you will be halfway or more to the arena. I think alot of people forget about highway 160 which goes right to the railyards. This is the route alot of the people will be taking to the arena and it wont be light rail.

I assumed the intermodal station/area would include light rail, hence an extension of the light rail system. Otherwise the term intermodal is misleading in an area that has light rail.

 

[Section 101]

I assumed the intermodal station/area would include light rail, hence an extension of the light rail system. Otherwise the term intermodal is misleading in an area that has light rail.

Do you see lightrail in Carmichael? Would it be easier for you to go by Arden mall onto 160 or to the Watt and 80 light rail?

 

[Superman]

I bet you loved that Prince concert. I heard that he gives one of the bests concerts you can go to.

I definitely will be taking light rail to the games too. When I first saw Time Warner Cable Arena, I wanted it for Sacramento because of location. The light rail runs right up to the front. On the other side of the light rail tracks, there is a huge parking garage, but it's connected to a large open air mall. Like the Downtown Plaza, only better. The mall contains restaurants and night clubs. So no matter how you get to the game, you will be sandwiched between an arena and an entertainment district when you step out.

I'm sure this is what the railyard planners are envisioning.

Gotta think big.

I just went to LA Live two weeks ago, and it's really impressive. They took an area that, ten years ago, you didn't want to be caught walking at night in, and turned it into an entertainment epicenter. Nightclubs, restaurants, hotels, adjacent parking, and of course, the venues: Staples, Nokia Theatre, and the convention center. I've only been a few times, but every time I wonder why I'm not there more often (it's because it's a 45 minute drive with moderate traffic).

We went to a concert at Nokia, which is about a 2,000 seat auditorium, where they have American Idol. Built for acoustics. And after the show, at about 10:30, we were able to walk back to the parking lot with no worries about being or feeling unsafe. We could have gone to a restaurant, a club, a bar, whatever. Could have just sat outside or walked around. AEG has done a ton with that area, and it all started with Staples Center.

Next up is a football stadium.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

They took an area that, ten years ago, you didn't want to be caught walking at night in

Ha, I wouldn't want to be caught walking in the day in that area back then. Gotta love when even the inside of the fast food restaurants had bullet proof glass to keep employees safe from the customers.

 

[Glenn]

Do you see lightrail in Carmichael? Would it be easier for you to go by Arden mall onto 160 or to the Watt and 80 light rail?

That's not the issue as I wouldn't want to go to Arden Mall. Are you saying that in the plans there is no provision for light rail at the intermodal?

 

[kennadog]

Here's where I see the problem. You have lightraid down 50 and 80 which is great. But in between getting to a lightrail station you will be halfway or more to the arena. I think alot of people forget about highway 160 which goes right to the railyards. This is the route alot of the people will be taking to the arena and it wont be light rail.

I still much preferred catching light rail at Watt/80 to going into town by 160. Too much traffic.

 

[kennadog]

That's not the issue as I wouldn't want to go to Arden Mall. Are you saying that in the plans there is no provision for light rail at the intermodal?

Light Rial will be part of the inter-modal area on the rail yards. The drawing by the arena architect suggested having the light rail tracks go right down the street in front of the arena. No traffic. no parking, no walking even a block.