Chupacabra
Starter
Is this thread refering to the final play of the game where Kobe made space to get wide open? It absolutely boggles my mind how Kobe was allowed to shoot a 3 THAT WIDE OPEN. Make ANYBODY ELSE shoot it.
nba refs
- Thread starter vistacruza_kings
- Start date
vistacruza_kings
Bench
na bro you just showed up kinda late.
The Hammer
All-Star
Kinda have to agree with this one. That whole series was more than BS and the refs clearly did everything they could to help the Fakers win. Let's at least be real here folks. Yes, Ime makes some free throws, we win the game, but let's be real, ok? We don't need to lie to ourselves. This is a biased league, there is no way you can deny that. But we must overcome that bias, plain and simple. And if we do, the world, the league, is ours.
vistacruza_kings
Bench
if the kings bring a championship to sacramento i will then believe this league is unbiased. or when david stern is no longer commish. hes been here what 25+years thats way to long, makes me wonder about the jordan years, talk about conspiracy
.One of my biggest problems with the NBA ref situation is how the media handles it, or better put, avoids it. Objectivity doesn't really exist, but the media will use it to take the cowards way out of a tough issue. What did Hunter S. Thompson call the press? Something I can't repeat on this forum, but pretty right on. A "false doorway to the backside of life"(and then more unmentionable things, chimps and all that). Sports press is just a false doorway to the locker room. They have a fuller story, but gimp it to keep pleasing whomever feeds it to them. More concerned about job security and networking than the fans or the truth.
The fan can cry out all they want, but if the press ignores it then what does it accomplish?
The fan can cry out all they want, but if the press ignores it then what does it accomplish?
silicongat
Prospect
Why do you keep calling out people for blaming the refs and crying about it. I don't see anyone crying or blaming the refs for the loss. Nobody does, they're just shining light on the situation and discussing it. You need to mellow out.
Some people forget this is a discussion forum.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
From the TV view I saw the ref was looking straight down the sideline at Kobe with unobstructed view.
A WHINING thread like this does no good and doesn't help the Kings and is of no benefit to us fans. Great for argumentative discussion tho'. With so many rookies (3) and first year guys (2 or 3) so early in the season, it is absolutely amazing that without their 2 best players the Kings can play toe-to-toe with the Lakers home and away. As a number of others have said in this thread, in-experience is more to blame for this game than any free throws, ref calls, or demons on high.
There were at least 5 or 6 specific plays when a Kings defender plain forgot about his guy or switching that resulted in 4 easy layup/dunks by lakers.
Ever notice how tight the lakers defend out on the perimeter? yet the spacing by kings defenders out there is usually 3-5 ft? in-experience. And the silly non-forced turnovers by the Kings, at least half or more of all TO's. In-experience (I hope).
Sure, it ticked me off as well. But it is 2 excellent games vs. the best team in the league. I'm impressed, big time. You should be too!!
From the TV view I saw the ref was looking straight down the sideline at Kobe with unobstructed view.
A WHINING thread like this does no good and doesn't help the Kings and is of no benefit to us fans. Great for argumentative discussion tho'. With so many rookies (3) and first year guys (2 or 3) so early in the season, it is absolutely amazing that without their 2 best players the Kings can play toe-to-toe with the Lakers home and away. As a number of others have said in this thread, in-experience is more to blame for this game than any free throws, ref calls, or demons on high.
There were at least 5 or 6 specific plays when a Kings defender plain forgot about his guy or switching that resulted in 4 easy layup/dunks by lakers.
Ever notice how tight the lakers defend out on the perimeter? yet the spacing by kings defenders out there is usually 3-5 ft? in-experience. And the silly non-forced turnovers by the Kings, at least half or more of all TO's. In-experience (I hope).
Sure, it ticked me off as well. But it is 2 excellent games vs. the best team in the league. I'm impressed, big time. You should be too!!
I am. And I commented on that fact in other threads. This thread is about NBA REFS. Me personally, I think the foot out of bounds is a non-issue. I also think Sergio was more intent on selling the foul than guarding Kobe. BUT, I also think that during the course of this game, the refs showed clearly that there is a double standard in the NBA.
Maybe several of you you should be less CONDESCENDING and allow people to DISCUSS THIS in a thread specifically set up to discuss THE REFS. If you and others are so bothered by this topic, I have an idea, why don't you choose to NOT PARTICIPATE.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I wish that a discussion about the Ref's would actually change something. Unfortunately it won't. Its merely an exercise in futility. In some ways its like poking and old wound that just won't heal. Its not about right or wrong. If it were, the good guys would always win. But thats not real life. Hitler, or someone of similar ilk, once said that right or wrong is determined by whoever is in power at the time. He obviously never read the bible, or didn't believe it if he did. The truth is, he was right. At least in the legal sense. Morality doesn't come into play in the NBA.
Last nights game was high drama. We just happened to be on the wrong side of it. Probably the only injustice that Stern would see, was that the game wasn't on national TV for all to see. Do I think that the ref's do their best to protect the stars of the game? Sure! It just makes perfect sense. Does that make it right? Nope! But you see, were back to that, whose in power thing again. Do I think the ref's actually try and determine the outcome of a game? Nope! Lets face it. There were things that the ref's could have done earilier that would have helped that cause. The could have called the ball off of Udoka instead of Gasol. They didn't! They made the right call. They had no control over whether Udoka made the freethrows or not. And regardless of whether Kobe pushed off or not to get open, and he did, he still had to make the shot.
No, I think from Stern's point of view, it was a perfect ending to a perfectly intertaining game. Even if the ending had been reversed. It just happens to be a hard pill for us to swallow. We've had experience swallowing it before. So its not going down any easier. Someday, hopefully sooner than later, we'll overcome all of this. Were getting stronger, and those on top are getting older, and slower. We're the young bull in the pasture. We're watching the old bull, and waiting for our time.
Last nights game was high drama. We just happened to be on the wrong side of it. Probably the only injustice that Stern would see, was that the game wasn't on national TV for all to see. Do I think that the ref's do their best to protect the stars of the game? Sure! It just makes perfect sense. Does that make it right? Nope! But you see, were back to that, whose in power thing again. Do I think the ref's actually try and determine the outcome of a game? Nope! Lets face it. There were things that the ref's could have done earilier that would have helped that cause. The could have called the ball off of Udoka instead of Gasol. They didn't! They made the right call. They had no control over whether Udoka made the freethrows or not. And regardless of whether Kobe pushed off or not to get open, and he did, he still had to make the shot.
No, I think from Stern's point of view, it was a perfect ending to a perfectly intertaining game. Even if the ending had been reversed. It just happens to be a hard pill for us to swallow. We've had experience swallowing it before. So its not going down any easier. Someday, hopefully sooner than later, we'll overcome all of this. Were getting stronger, and those on top are getting older, and slower. We're the young bull in the pasture. We're watching the old bull, and waiting for our time.
FaStRmAn
Starter
The game was negatively influenced by the officials. Undermanned and undersized, the Kings fought hard and looked like they were going to pull off a miracle win with their best players sidelined with injuries. It just wasnt to be. We should look at the positives though. Hawes had his best game as a King last night. Yet his defense was so poor that it probably cost the Kings the game in part. Too many easy layups that should be blocked or influenced, and Hawes didn't even jump to contest. Udoka missing the free throws shows he is a CHOKER and can not be allowed on the floor during crunch time because he cant handle the pressure. If he makes those 2 free throws (he is a 0.750 free throw shooter this year) the game is OVER! But he CHOKED. And that is the game folks. The Refs were not going to give the Kings another chance!! They had their chance and they CHOKED. If the Refs hadn't fouled out everyone who was playing well for the Kings forcing PW to leave Udoka on the floor or forcing Sergio to cover Bryant, the story might have been different, but that is all a guessing game. The facts are the Kings outplayed the Fakers in every facet of the game accept one. Kings free throws 12-16, Fakers free throws 23-29. Nearly double the calls for the Fakers. Isn't that the way it always is? Refs just see more fouls for the Fakers than the Kings. The Fakers commit MORE fouls, but get to the line more often anyway. That is the definition of influencing the game by the refs. Thompson and Greene only players to foul out? Especially Greene who played perfect Defense and was called for at least 3 phantom fouls. Very Suspicious...
The game was negatively influenced by the officials. Undermanned and undersized, the Kings fought hard and looked like they were going to pull off a miracle win with their best players sidelined with injuries. It just wasnt to be. We should look at the positives though. Hawes had his best game as a King last night. Yet his defense was so poor that it probably cost the Kings the game in part. Too many easy layups that should be blocked or influenced, and Hawes didn't even jump to contest. Udoka missing the free throws shows he is a CHOKER and can not be allowed on the floor during crunch time because he cant handle the pressure. If he makes those 2 free throws (he is a 0.750 free throw shooter this year) the game is OVER! But he CHOKED. And that is the game folks. The Refs were not going to give the Kings another chance!! They had their chance and they CHOKED. If the Refs hadn't fouled out everyone who was playing well for the Kings forcing PW to leave Udoka on the floor or forcing Sergio to cover Bryant, the story might have been different, but that is all a guessing game. The facts are the Kings outplayed the Fakers in every facet of the game accept one. Kings free throws 12-16, Fakers free throws 23-29. Nearly double the calls for the Fakers. Isn't that the way it always is? Refs just see more fouls for the Fakers than the Kings. The Fakers commit MORE fouls, but get to the line more often anyway. That is the definition of influencing the game by the refs. Thompson and Greene only players to foul out? Especially Greene who played perfect Defense and was called for at least 3 phantom fouls. Very Suspicious...
Mmm, wasn't it Udoka who hit those two crucial 3-pointers in the comeback against Chicago? I'm glad PW doesn't come to such decisive conclusions about players after a couple of shots, otherwise there would be no one to put out there on the court. Everyone would be benched...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You know, we really don't have much right to complain on this front in general. The reaosn being we've proven that we can be the beneficiaries too, even wihtout a major star. For the last 3-4 years we've been right at the top of the legaue in fouls drawn. The reaosn being? Kevin Martin. Same way that Kobe was the reason for the foul discrepancy last night -- its 18 Lakers, 16 Kings...until you add in Kobe's 11. And you can see how much good that has done our W-L record.
I thought we got the worse end of the calls for most of last night. Then again I also thoguht they got the key call between Ime/Pau correct and that could have given us the game. Then we could have won the game at the FT line. Then we could have won the game by playing better defense on Kobe.
I thought we got the worse end of the calls for most of last night. Then again I also thoguht they got the key call between Ime/Pau correct and that could have given us the game. Then we could have won the game at the FT line. Then we could have won the game by playing better defense on Kobe.
drboiffard
Bench
No one is allowed to fail at crunch time except those supposed to develop into crunchy players. Players are like pokemons, some have a crunch ability and others don't, you know, there are players who fail at crunch time but it's never the same, because they are "learning to be crunchy", but others will never be crunchy so they can't never take crunch shots even they have shown they can make it in other games.
Love it!No one is allowed to fail at crunch time except those supposed to develop into crunchy players. Players are like pokemons, some have a crunch ability and others don't, you know, there are players who fail at crunch time but it's never the same, because they are "learning to be crunchy", but others will never be crunchy so they can't never take crunch shots even they have shown they can make it in other games.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
No one is allowed to fail at crunch time except those supposed to develop into crunchy players. Players are like pokemons, some have a crunch ability and others don't, you know, there are players who fail at crunch time but it's never the same, because they are "learning to be crunchy", but others will never be crunchy so they can't never take crunch shots even they have shown they can make it in other games.
I'm suddenly overwhelmed by the desire to eat a Nestle's crunch.
Exercising futility is my specialty. Onward Rocinante, to the windmills!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Exercising futility is my specialty. Onward Rocinante, to the windmills!
Oh great, now were going to talk about global warming..
Hello I would like to log a formal complaint against the atrocious officiating in an NBA game Kings vs. the Lakers January 1, 2010. The calls were completely one-sided. Kobe Bryant had at least ten no calls. Five of which were discontinued dribbles. The players in the game were even yelling "travel" again and again (obviously to no avail). Second, Kobe clearly fouled many players with no call, the most obvious was in the fourth quarter when he went so high over Sergio Rodriquez' back that Kobe flipped over and I could not believe that an NBA ref would not call over the back. Kobe also had many uncalled fouls (because its okay for him to foul, right?). He also fouled Omri Casspi several times including two elbows (again no calls). Terrible foul calls against the kings were Donte Greene stripping the ball and it being called a foul (that one I understand), but no way should Shannon Brown falling on his face alone in the fourth quarter be called a foul because he was untouched! I could go on and on, but it seems like you (the NBA) are perfectly content allowing some teams that are not winning to get the whistles and win.
Late call (or whistles) every time. Referees would wait to see if the basket was made; if it did not make a basket then the whistle would blow.
Free throw discrepancy.
Late call (or whistles) every time. Referees would wait to see if the basket was made; if it did not make a basket then the whistle would blow.
Free throw discrepancy.
Right here. I put my chop on it, and then route it up the chain.
Expect a response no later than 7 Jan 2110.
Expect a response no later than 7 Jan 2110.
I get what you're saying there but I highly doubt that the officials have had any reason to play favorites with Kevin freakin' Martin these last few years. Theres been no reason to and for as many fouls as he draws, he blows just about as many plays by not getting the foul and chucking up garbage.
I mean we know why they would play favorites with Kobe, Lebron, Wade etc. But Martin? Nah...
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Why? The Lakers-Kings game I watched at Staples was a really good game and with home team only enjoying a very slight advantage from the refs. Kobe gets so many fouls called for him as he works harder than any other Laker on the floor. Every foul I saw him get was deserved. So were most of the fouls on the Kings. Sure some are missed but thats the case in every game. Here very few. In fact I saw 3-4 rather obvious fouls by Kings that did not get called.
As long as the Kids defend with arms and hands instead of their bodies, they will get a lot of silly type fouls called. JT leads the NBA in fouls called so far this year. Almost all (80%+) are using arms and hands and not using his quick feet to stay in front of his guy.
In this game silly turnovers were one major key to not winning the game. Throwing the ball out-of-bounds, not being in sync and bouncing a pass at the other Kings ankles or throwing it behind him or throwing into traffic or a double team, etc, etc. Cut out any 6 of them and get 2/3's the resulting points lost and thats 8 points.
Complain about refs in this game? Not by any stretch of imagination. Very few fouls by Kings were argued to any degree. Most were accepted for what they really were. Game 6 of the 2002 western conference championships is another story.
I'm going to point out that the coaching staff and players did not complain about the refs because Westphal made it team rules/policy at the start of the season not to. So, whether they complain or not, it doesn't validate one opinion over the other. They just aren't complaining period.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
A worthy policy mayhap we should emulate.
And in any case, on a game winning backbreaker right in front of the bench...that would be grounds for a formal complaint if he truly believed Kobe had stepped out and they blew the call. Not a whine to the press, but an appeal to the league given that the play is reviewable.
K
king07
Guest
we still had a chance to win the game even if you think the officials were screwing us....make both free throws = win game....simple as that.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Westphal just said about last second shot in pre-game (Dallas) interview with the G-Man that he looked down and saw Kobe WAS NOT out of bounds and that Kings certainly knew play was for him. They had D they wanted but what happened is history (implying it was an offensive foul on Sergio) but now they forget it to concentrate on tonight game.
hoops4kings
Bench
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