Marcus Thornton:

[bajaden]

This probably isn't worth a thread of its own, but it does give us a little bit of info on what Thornton might expect in terms of a contract.

Dpick_Mvd Dubi Pick by mr_jasonjones
#Lockout -- Heavy rumors make known that RFA Marcus Thornton refused a $2.2 million full season (no NBA out) offer by Maccabi Tel Aviv.


He passed up 2.2 mil to play overseas. No NBA out. I'm not saying that decision was all about money, but at least we know we'll have to cough up considerably more than 2.2 mil to resign him. Not a shocker!

I also read on ESPN that the NBA is allowing GM's and coaches to talk to the players now. One can only hope that its a result of the recent meetings between the league and the players association. Next tuesdays meeting could be huge. Lets keep our fingers crossed. Still not sure what that means?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The odds for a season are looking good.

I'm not surprised by Thornton turning down $2.2M. I figured that even with reduced salaries he's probably looking at a floor of about $12M total over 3 years.

 

[pshn80]

Thanks for the news on both fronts. It is a small note of encouragement for me in an arena where there has been not much.

 

[cuad]

You're lying. You read that on RealGM. http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1131349

Hopefully Marcus doesn't get anything more than Garcia.

 

[bajaden]

You're lying. You read that on RealGM. http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1131349

Hopefully Marcus doesn't get anything more than Garcia.

If your refering to the info I attributed to ESPN, It could have been Real GM. If memory serves, I think it was in a Sam Amick article, or in reference to a Sam Amick article. I read a lot of articles every morning. I guess I'll have to double check my source in the future.

 

[est.1999]

He's worth more than Garcia.

 

[Bricklayer]

He's worth more than Garcia.

By quite a bit, but it sure would be nice to pull a Peja on him and lock him in to a long term contract at well below market value because we had the foresight to sign him before he blew up.

 

[kingsboi]

I think we might have to overpay Marcus a little more than what we originally think, but he deserves it. Now the only thing to keep in mind is the amount of years on his contract extension, whether he gets 3, 4 or 5.

 

[bajaden]

Assuming that the current restricted free agent rule, or something very close to it remains, then what we pay will be determined by the highest bidder other than ourselves. Since we have the right to match any offer, we can only hope that their aren't any idiots out there. In truth, we've only seen a small sampling of him. So we'd be betting that what we saw is the real Marcus Thornton. Personally, I think it is, and I'm not going to go into why. But I agree with Bricky. It would be great to lock him up to a very reasonable contract that would seemingly be below market value in a year or two.

 

[Telemachus]

Hopefully Marcus doesn't get anything more than Garcia.

I would love to see him signed for less than Garcia, but I would currently rank him as the 3rd best player on the Kings.

 

[CruzDude]

Now I only hope the Coaches can implement an offense with two PG/SG's running the show to take advantage of Thornton as well as Tyreke. I'd rather see Thornton bring the ball up most of the time to give Tyreke a better chance to spread and cut up the defense now with the spot up threat Thornton brings. With Hickson at PF he can spot up or drive and guard both PF and SF and will be a really tough guy to guard for other SF.

 

[Sac.1989]

We are going to have to pay him to keep him which is why I feel he’ll be on cisco money. I feel that there will be a lot of teams who take a long hard look at him and could entice him away. The Bulls still need a partner for Rose for example and they would make a hell of a backcourt together.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I think the Max he would get is Kevin Martin money, which is more than I'd like to give him but the Kings would have to match it.

Kmart did it for a longer period of time, but what I saw out of Thornton those last few months was more impressive than anything I have seen out of Martin. Both guys are offensive players but Thornton showed that he could score when it mattered. Martin continually cracked under pressure.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I think the Max he would get is Kevin Martin money, which is more than I'd like to give him but the Kings would have to match it.

Kmart did it for a longer period of time, but what I saw out of Thornton those last few months was more impressive than anything I have seen out of Martin. Both guys are offensive players but Thornton showed that he could score when it mattered. Martin continually cracked under pressure.

I don't think there's any chance at all that Thornton gets Kevin Martin money, especially under a new CBA. I think he's looking at something more like $5M per year tops.

But outside of that, Thornton has never shown the efficiency that Martin has shown. I know he's got his detractors around here, but Martin has a career .599 TS%, which simply blows out Thornton's .538 (.547 last year with the Kings), mostly because Martin gets to the line roughly twice as often as Thornton. I don't think either guy is going to be a defensive standout, but the numbers show Martin to simply be a much better, more efficient scorer, whether people around here think he's "soft" or not.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I don't think there's any chance at all that Thornton gets Kevin Martin money, especially under a new CBA. I think he's looking at something more like $5M per year tops.

But outside of that, Thornton has never shown the efficiency that Martin has shown. I know he's got his detractors around here, but Martin has a career .599 TS%, which simply blows out Thornton's .538 (.547 last year with the Kings), mostly because Martin gets to the line roughly twice as often as Thornton. I don't think either guy is going to be a defensive standout, but the numbers show Martin to simply be a much better, more efficient scorer, whether people around here think he's "soft" or not.

I was thinking along the lines of the early years on Kevins deal. If my memory is correct, it was around 9-10 mil and has since gone up to 12+.

But obviously, any contract predictions have to be attached to the fact that no one knows what the new CBA will look like. I personally dont think the cap will be drastically different, but thats just me.

As far as Martin vs. Thornton ... The only standout thing that makes Kmart the better offensive player is the FT's, like you mentioned. And while neither is great defensively, I think you have to give Thornton the edge there. Some consider Martin soft, I think there is something to that .. he was never a game finisher. I dont even think that is a question with Thornton. He is an extremely tough and physical player for his size. And even though he is a tad undersized for a SG, we posted him up once and a while. He wanted the ball when it mattered, and for the most part he came through. He must have hit 5+ huge late game shots during those months after the trading deadline.

So Martin has him on getting to the line and consistency. We dont know if the Marcus Thornton we saw was the real Marcus Thornton. But if it was, and we get him for that 5M like you said .. that would be a huge bargain. Just huge.

 

[gunks]

But OTOH, Thornton is a slightly better rebounder and passer than K-Mart.

I hope we keep him, but I also hope we dont have to overpay. With Reke and Cousins on the team, we really dont need a mediocrely efficient (roughly) 18ppg scorer. We could do just as well with a reliable 15ppg guy as the 3rd option (Fredette in a couple years?).

With our broke owners, I dont want this team to have any albatross contracts. We still dont even have a good idea of how well the Reke/Thornton combo will be over the course of the season. If I remember correctly, they had a couple good games when Evans first came back, then the chemistry dissapated a bit.

Ah well...Lockout, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Bricklayer]

I was thinking along the lines of the early years on Kevins deal. If my memory is correct, it was around 9-10 mil and has since gone up to 12+.

But obviously, any contract predictions have to be attached to the fact that no one knows what the new CBA will look like. I personally dont think the cap will be drastically different, but thats just me.

As far as Martin vs. Thornton ... The only standout thing that makes Kmart the better offensive player is the FT's, like you mentioned. And while neither is great defensively, I think you have to give Thornton the edge there. Some consider Martin soft, I think there is something to that .. he was never a game finisher. I dont even think that is a question with Thornton. He is an extremely tough and physical player for his size. And even though he is a tad undersized for a SG, we posted him up once and a while. He wanted the ball when it mattered, and for the most part he came through. He must have hit 5+ huge late game shots during those months after the trading deadline.

So Martin has him on getting to the line and consistency. We dont know if the Marcus Thornton we saw was the real Marcus Thornton. But if it was, and we get him for that 5M like you said .. that would be a huge bargain. Just huge.

Hard to believe anybody else would dump that kind of money on him off of a half season's work. Now I actualy think in the end he might be worth that kind of money, but that's neither here nor there. No team is goign to take a chance on a guy so unproven for a contract at that level, and hopefully we get to take davantage of that. On the other hand I can easily see a team dropping a Cisco level MLE sort of deal (likely won't be an MLE, but an equivalent sized deal) on him.

 

[bajaden]

But OTOH, Thornton is a slightly better rebounder and passer than K-Mart.

I hope we keep him, but I also hope we dont have to overpay. With Reke and Cousins on the team, we really dont need a mediocrely efficient (roughly) 18ppg scorer. We could do just as well with a reliable 15ppg guy as the 3rd option (Fredette in a couple years?).

With our broke owners, I dont want this team to have any albatross contracts. We still dont even have a good idea of how well the Reke/Thornton combo will be over the course of the season. If I remember correctly, they had a couple good games when Evans first came back, then the chemistry dissapated a bit.

Ah well...Lockout, we'll just have to wait and see.

You beat me to it on the rebounding and passing. Thornton is also a much better ballhandler than Martin. They are in fact two different players, and shouldn't be compared skill wise. Money is a different issue altogether. When we rewarded Martin with his contract, he was for the most part a proven product. Some may not totally like that product, but you pretty much knew what you were going to get from Martin on a nightly basis. You pay for consistency, not potential. At least the big bucks.

I can't confindently say, that I'm sure the Thornton that played for the Kings at the end of the season, is the Thornton we'll see on a nightly basis. I think he is, but I can't guarantee it. For that reason, and that reason alone, I'm reluctant to offer the type of contract that Martin signed. Whatever he signs for, won't be dictated by us. In the end, it'll come down to whether we want to match the highest offer. They're aren't that many teams with money under the cap, and who knows what their priorities are. If the mid-level exception is kept, I'm sure he'll find teams willing to use it, and I'm sure the Kings would willingly match it.

If the bidding is low, there's the possibility that Thornton might opt for a one year deal at 2 or 3 mil. It would give the Kings an opportunity to see him for a full year before commiting big bucks. But it might also raise the bidding in the next offseason. These things are always a crapshoot to some extent.

 

[Telemachus]

I don't think there's any chance at all that Thornton gets Kevin Martin money, especially under a new CBA. I think he's looking at something more like $5M per year tops.

But outside of that, Thornton has never shown the efficiency that Martin has shown. I know he's got his detractors around here, but Martin has a career .599 TS%, which simply blows out Thornton's .538 (.547 last year with the Kings), mostly because Martin gets to the line roughly twice as often as Thornton. I don't think either guy is going to be a defensive standout, but the numbers show Martin to simply be a much better, more efficient scorer, whether people around here think he's "soft" or not.

Martin may be a more effecient scorer than Thornton, but Marcus is a better all around player (and still improving). I also think it is worth looking at what each player did (or didn't do) in the fourth quarter. Marcus was arguably the Kings' best player down the stretch last season, while Martin always seemed to do a disappearing act in the 4th. All that being said, I don't think Marcus will be offered that type of money especially with the new CBA.

 

[SacTownKid]

This guy at anything close to or a little above the MLE is a steal! Under the old CBA he's at least a 9-10 million a year player. Just have to hope nobody saw what we all did though.

However, if Jimmer comes in and steals his spot you can't pay a ton for a bench player.

 

[Telemachus]

This guy at anything close to or a little above the MLE is a steal! Under the old CBA he's at least a 9-10 million a year player. Just have to hope nobody saw what we all did though.

However, if Jimmer comes in and steals his spot you can't pay a ton for a bench player.

That depends on the bench player. Manu with SA & Terry with Dallas both earn every cent of their contracts while coming off the bench.