Malone discussion (merged)

[twslam07]

Nothing to do with coaching, if we are not able to control the defensive glass and missing a bunch of FT's and of course keep turning the ball over on stupid plays all the time.

This post is kind of contradicting as Malone did not have our best defensive rebounder in the game down the stretch. Instead, he opted for a much less effective Landry. Then Malone finally came to his senses and put Evans back in with two minutes left in the game. The Lakers didn't get an offensive rebound in those final two minutes, but they got two offensive rebounds that resulted in 6 points (Johnson's 3 and Kobe's 3) when Landry was in the game. I might be pulling at straws with that one, but we shouldn't overlook Evans' impact on the defensive glass. He comes down with one of those boards and it's a completely different ball game.

Now I'm not saying it's all Malone's fault because it wasn't. The free throw shooting was absolutely horrendous, and once again, we cannot take care of the ball to save our lives. However, you cannot say it comes down to controlling the glass when our Coach didn't give us the best opportunity to control the glass. It's like saying we lost this game because we didn't have enough assists, not because Malone decided to bench all of our PGs and SGs.

 

[SacKings384]

The Kings are the worst team in the league at execution. There are two stats that highlight your team's ability to execute. Turnovers and assists. The Kings are awful in both, especially for a team that doesn't play at a fast pace. You'd expect the Warriors to have a high T/O ratio due to their style of play, but they're putting up 107 ppg.

In my opinion the ability to execute offensively is on Malone. There is no wonder why we struggle in the fourth, and that's because teams lock down in the fourth. Once that happens the Kings struggle mightily. One on one ball. Tons of turnovers. Just ugly ugly basketball.

BUT he's a great defensive coach, and he's learning just like the Kings are. I also get the sense that he's trying to get the bench some experience by playing them in crucial points of the game, which is insanely frustrating (like last night when he held in the bench way too long in the fourth).

 

[notoriousBEN3]

I don't know, personally i get the vibe that Malone isn't coaching to win every game, he's coaching to potentially build something bigger. Some of his lineups that linger on the court too long look to me like he is trying to build cohesion, chemistry, and confidence in some of the guys. Nick, for example, has been in games far longer than he should be, after appearing to have very low confidence. What does Malone do? He keeps him in. It may not be the popular decision to win in the short term, but i think he's trying to instill confidence in Nik, especially b/c we need him to be a 3pt threat off the bench and he's not gonna be a threat to anyone until he get's confidence. I think (or at least hope) that's happening with numerous different lineups and players as well.

It may be the unpopular decision to somewhat sacrifice games in the present, but i think MAYBE he's trying to build something bigger with an eye on the long term, not the short term.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Malone's ability to make adjustments is horrible, instead of seeing a potential problem or addressing it quickly, he lets it go on until we are in big trouble.
ex:
Leaving Ben/JT on the bench until LA cut it to 1pt lead with a little over 4mins left. Instead of noticing the change in momentum and getting them back in the game with like 7mins left and a couple possession lead.

then he leaves Landry in the game over Reggie (who had 14 boards) as we get pounded on the offensive glass for the entire quarter. He finally puts Reggie back in the game with 2 whole minutes left. The damage was done.


and this happens almost every game it's not just last night. He still hasn't adjusted his rotations to keep at least one starter on the floor at all times, we continue to get destroyed to start 2nd quarters. He often tosses out the Landry at Center lineup, and sits and watches as we get out-rebounded and scored on in the paint for a 5 or 6 minute stretch.


confusing stuff lately.

 

[Kingster]

I don't know, personally i get the vibe that Malone isn't coaching to win every game, he's coaching to potentially build something bigger. Some of his lineups that linger on the court too long look to me like he is trying to build cohesion, chemistry, and confidence in some of the guys. Nick, for example, has been in games far longer than he should be, after appearing to have very low confidence. What does Malone do? He keeps him in. It may not be the popular decision to win in the short term, but i think he's trying to instill confidence in Nik, especially b/c we need him to be a 3pt threat off the bench and he's not gonna be a threat to anyone until he get's confidence. I think (or at least hope) that's happening with numerous different lineups and players as well.

It may be the unpopular decision to somewhat sacrifice games in the present, but i think MAYBE he's trying to build something bigger with an eye on the long term, not the short term.

And if that's the case, then he made a sharp turn from the road. Remember, it was about winning "this year", not longer term. If Malone has changed the objective, that's fairly important.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

And if that's the case, then he made a sharp turn from the road. Remember, it was about winning "this year", not longer term. If Malone has changed the objective, that's fairly important.

Or maybe they just decided to say that, because they knew most didn't want to hear that two straight seasons were not really about win total? To be technical, I don't believe they actually said that this season was about winning as many games as possible, but that the season would be "evaluated" on the win/loss record. Leaves it open to some different interpretation

 

[VF21]

Whatever was said was said WITHOUT the consideration of DFC getting viral meningitis.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Talentwise the Kings without DMC are right at the bottom of the league and certainly not a contender for the 8th spot in the West.
Far below average Center, below average Pf, good SF, average SG and average PG. Below average bench.
While i agree, that Malone isn't perfect it is difficult to win with a Team like this.Especially when the roster is overhauled.

 

[Chubbs]

Losing the big guy long term may have immediately and dramatically changed the goals for this season, or at least the next 2-3 weeks.

Or maybe they just decided to say that, because they knew most didn't want to hear that two straight seasons were not really about win total? To be technical, I don't believe they actually said that this season was about winning as many games as possible, but that the season would be "evaluated" on the win/loss record. Leaves it open to some different interpretation

They certainly didn't say "playoffs or bust."

 

[Play Eric Moreland]

Let's put it this way... he's a lot better than Paul Westphal!

lol

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Get rid of this dunce, takes our best defender off Harden for him to score 10 straight points on us.

 

[randymoss1881]

Get rid of this dunce, takes our best defender off Harden for him to score 10 straight points on us.

How bout you pay attention he abused everyone we put on him. Ben was on the floor a couple times as harden was hitting open shots. But then again you made you're mind up a long time ago and was just waiting for something to complain about.

 

[IfAt1st]

Oh, that is it!
Coach Malone is incapable of accepting that what he is doing IS NOT WORKING!
He ran the dreaded 1-4 flat for Rudy at the end of regulation, when we desperately needed a score. Rudy is now succeeding less than 20% of the time in isolation plays, yet Malone went back to him like it was the best thing he could come up with.
No pick and roll, no screens, no cutters, no movement.

I'm sorry, but when our coach is running the same goddamned play that we have watched this team FAIL time and time again, year after year with this team, whoever took the shot, than he is no better than the failures that Westphal and Smart were!

These "reporters" covering the Kings are spineless turds, not asking Malone what the hell he is doing out there.

This thread's premise has MORE than reached past the point where it is relevant now - it is no joke, something NEEDS to change in the Kings' coaching. Someone else needs to be running the offense- Malone has proven he is incapable of learning how yo make a team run a reliable play that the entirety of the rest of the NBA runs.
Boogie's dominance and playmaking ability can NOT be the sole basis for a successful team. Even if DMC comes back healthy, there will be times when he will not get the ball, and Malone has shown he is incapable of coming up with offensive plays that will work against competitive teams.

Anyone think this stubborn, deluded kind of coaching, refusing to even address his shortcomings will cut it if the Kings ever found a way to MAKE it to the playoffs?!

 

[Glenn]

Oh, that is it!
Coach Malone is incapable of accepting that what he is doing IS NOT WORKING!
He ran the dreaded 1-4 flat for Rudy at the end of regulation, when we desperately needed a score. Rudy is now succeeding less than 20% of the time in isolation plays, yet Malone went back to him like it was the best thing he could come up with.
No pick and roll, no screens, no cutters, no movement.

I'm sorry, but when our coach is running the same goddamned play that we have watched this team FAIL time and time again, year after year with this team, whoever took the shot, than he is no better than the failures that Westphal and Smart were!

These "reporters" covering the Kings are spineless turds, not asking Malone what the hell he is doing out there.

This thread's premise has MORE than reached past the point where it is relevant now - it is no joke, something NEEDS to change in the Kings' coaching. Someone else needs to be running the offense- Malone has proven he is incapable of learning how yo make a team run a reliable play that the entirety of the rest of the NBA runs.
Boogie's dominance and playmaking ability can NOT be the sole basis for a successful team. Even if DMC comes back healthy, there will be times when he will not get the ball, and Malone has shown he is incapable of coming up with offensive plays that will work against competitive teams.

Anyone think this stubborn, deluded kind of coaching, refusing to even address his shortcomings will cut it if the Kings ever found a way to MAKE it to the playoffs?!

What should we do?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

How bout you pay attention he abused everyone we put on him. Ben was on the floor a couple times as harden was hitting open shots. But then again you made you're mind up a long time ago and was just waiting for something to complain about.

You need to heed your own advice regarding paying attention. Prior to hitting the game tying 3 pointer late in the 4th, the beard was 9 for 25 - a stellar 36% from the field.

How exactly is that abusing anyone? Please enlighten.

Ben was doing a good job on him, especially when he was isolated 1-on-1 in the post.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Anyone think this stubborn, deluded kind of coaching, refusing to even address his shortcomings will cut it if the Kings ever found a way to MAKE it to the playoffs?!

These decisions will definitely not work in big games, let alone playoffs. With or Without DMC or any other dominant post player for that matter. Something hopefully will change, otherwise the success against good teams in big games, will be low percentage

 

[206Fan]

How bout you pay attention he abused everyone we put on him. Ben was on the floor a couple times as harden was hitting open shots. But then again you made you're mind up a long time ago and was just waiting for something to complain about.

Re-watch OT.. We need our best defender on him. I have no clue why coach thinks Gay is capable of guarding smaller players like SGs. Gay isn't even an above average defender.. just let Ben do the guarding.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Re-watch OT.. We need our best defender on him. I have no clue why coach thinks Gay is capable of guarding smaller players like SGs. Gay isn't even an above average defender.. just let Ben do the guarding.

Guess who the beard hit the game tying 3 on? It started even before OT.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

They did the same thing against the Lakers. Switched Gay on to Bryant down the stretch. It's like they're throwing everything on Rudy's lap and saying "go win this one on your own, on both ends of the floor".

Stick with a team concept, where Gay is always a top option, but not the only 1 on 1 option, while also expecting him to guard the top shooting guards in the league

 

[HereWeBoogie]

DMC being out plus Ty Corbin being out sure has Malone's decision making looking sub par at best

 

[Gilles]

Guess who the beard hit the game tying 3 on? It started even before OT.

They did the same thing against the Lakers. Switched Gay on to Bryant down the stretch. It's like they're throwing everything on Rudy's lap and saying "go win this one on your own, on both ends of the floor".

Stick with a team concept, where Gay is always a top option, but not the only 1 on 1 option, while also expecting him to guard the top shooting guards in the league

So it's official, right?

 

[KingsFanGER]

Did Malone actually put Gay and Dwill on Harden, or did they switch some kind of screen and roll or tried to pick him up in transition. Guess i have to watch these plays again.

Ok after sitting through the painful last minutes of this game again....

Game tying three - Ben was chasing Terry down the floor and into the corner, leaving D-Will on Harden, who switched the Pick&Roll with Gay. Doesn't look like it was Malones intention to put Dwill on Harden. Looks more like Harden took advantage of our inability to set up our defense quick enough.

First layup in OT. Gay was intentionally guarding Harden, which is a serious coaching mistake.
Three in OT. Again the Rockets push the ball and prevent our D to get set, leaving Dwill on Harden. Doesn't look intentional.
Second layup in OT. Ben picks up Harden full court and ofc gets beaten down the court for the And.1

While one play is clearly on Malone, the other 3 are just an example of how to attack a defense early and create matchups in your favour. This is Rocket's Style basketball and Harden does this alot.

 

[GQ_Gabriel]

I am very disappointed with Coach Malone's decisions as of late. I feel that the absence of DMC has really shown the glaring weakness of our coach. Honestly, I love Ty Corbin's style of making sure that we have one impact player on the floor at all times, and wish that Coach Malone would do the same. He sticks with units too long regardless of how bad they're struggling to get points or to hold off the opposition. Last night, offensive rebounds were killing us against Houston late in the game. Why is Landry or JT at Center when Ryan Hollins could be of use in that situation? I just don't get it. I would like to know if others share the same sentiment.

 

[lawlman91]

I mentioned that. Little kids are walking bags of germs.

He needs to wear those protection suits when he's on road trips

 

[lawlman91]

Did Malone actually put Gay and Dwill on Harden, or did they switch some kind of screen and roll or tried to pick him up in transition. Guess i have to watch these plays again.

Ok after sitting through the painful last minutes of this game again....

Game tying three - Ben was chasing Terry down the floor and into the corner, leaving D-Will on Harden, who switched the Pick&Roll with Gay. Doesn't look like it was Malones intention to put Dwill on Harden. Looks more like Harden took advantage of our inability to set up our defense quick enough.

First layup in OT. Gay was intentionally guarding Harden, which is a serious coaching mistake.
Three in OT. Again the Rockets push the ball and prevent our D to get set, leaving Dwill on Harden. Doesn't look intentional.
Second layup in OT. Ben picks up Harden full court and ofc gets beaten down the court for the And.1

While one play is clearly on Malone, the other 3 are just an example of how to attack a defense early and create matchups in your favour. This is Rocket's Style basketball and Harden does this alot.

I like that you took the effort to evaluate specific plays. Maybe we need an "advanced discussion" thread -- I'd really like to read this, and possibly get into the conversation.

 

[gunks]

Well...

We didnt have our best player...
Our "second best player" (debatable) Rudy played like a giant turd in a Kings jersey, rubbing poo poo all over the court...
We had 21 turn overs...
The best SG in the game dropped 44/4/8/3/1 on us...
Our bench continues to suck. Nik has an excuse, he's a rookie...But Landry?! Man, if Rudy played like a turd, I dont know what Landry was...
In case nobody noticed, Houston is one of the league's best teams...


...But hey! Lets blame this loss on the coach!!!

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

To answer your question, no he has not. The player rotations, strategy of when to bring in players and/or leave them in, along with the play calls down the stretch of games,....has been mind boggeling. It doesn't make any sense.

It gives the whole situation a feel of....some other agenda, instead of using common sense to win games that are right there in front of you for the taking.

The situation of continued Ramon Ramon, Ramon will play no matter what. Instead of using one of your best defensive players and somebody we should be attempting to develop with playing time, in Ray Mac. I'm not on board with it at all.

Omri Casspi, yeah, serious doubts about what is going on with this sudden "injury". He was playing the best ball of his career and suddenly...we found "something", he needs to sit out. Not buying it

 

[ForlornKing]

Ray Mac and Sessions need to be this team's back up 2 guard, and only JT and Hollins should be allowed to play the 5.

 

[Livinthedream]

They did the same thing against the Lakers. Switched Gay on to Bryant down the stretch. It's like they're throwing everything on Rudy's lap and saying "go win this one on your own, on both ends of the floor".

Stick with a team concept, where Gay is always a top option, but not the only 1 on 1 option, while also expecting him to guard the top shooting guards in the league

On this board we've pointed out that to "play like the Spurs" you have to trust your teammates. It's painfully obvious that when the pressure is on, the team doesn't trust eachother. Problem is, the team won't trust each other if the coaches don't show faith in their players. When you switch Ben off his man at the end of games or clear out for Rudy every time, you're telling everyone you only trust Rudy.

I don't want to hear any more Spurs talk from this organization.

 

[SacKings384]

Honestly I think he's trying to put the guys in the fire and have them learn even at the cost of games. I just don't agree with it. Sessions, Stauskas, Landry, etc. aren't going to get confidence when they come in and get their butts whooped every single games. Every single player on our bench has a negative +- per game. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Sessions having the worst (if you don't count Moreland) with a -2.7. Our bench essentially is the Philadelphia 76'ers. Statistically it is likely that every single game our bench plays we will lose a chunk of the lead.

Now I know he wants the bench to play better. But how are you going to have confidence when NOBODY on the bench is a shot-creator. When NOBODY plays good defense. When NOBODY can rebound besides Reggie. Think of Nick's best game when he came and played with the starters. They were able to hide his deficiencies a bit, and get him good looks. Malone plays substitutions hockey style. "Alright it's x minute, everyone out, and bench in." It's lazy. It's what drove Warriors fans NUTS with Mark Jackson. Watch the Warriors play this year. If Steph is out Klay is in, and vice versa.

Every single fourth quarter Malone plays a game of "How long can I hold this lineup in before we give up the lead?" Then we give the other team a ton of confidence, they play better D, and the Kings struggle. It's like clockwork. It remind me of the very important quote "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." After watching this team so far on what planet do you think "Nick, Sessions, Landry, Derrick, and Reggie" is going to be a lineup that is capable of holding any lead? It may have been B-Mac out there as well but I can't recall specifically. The front office is obsessed with statistics right? Check the statistics for when those 5 are on the floor (or Cassipi instead of D-Will) and see what the +- is. Guarantee it's horrific. And yet you have a lead going into the fourth, and it's incredibly important to start the fourth strong, and that's what you put out there.

And yet McHale (who isn't the most fantastic coach) has no problem on a BACK TO BACK playing Harden 48 minutes. But Malone acts like he's coaching the freaking San Antonio Spurs out there and needs these players to sit for long stretches no matter what. It's lazy coaching. It's inept coaching.

As Brick has said we are wasting away DMC's best years. We could be in the middle of the pack in the Western Conference, and instead inept coaching (and players making mental mistakes) have cost the team a ton of very winnable games. When your team commits as many turnovers as we do, and has a few assists as we do, it makes me think of poor coaching. Poor offensive sets. Poor ball discipline. If we could hire George Karl I'd do it in a second.