Malone discussion (merged)

[mdme]

The sheer amount of these mental mistakes is concerning.

Btw. is there any rule in the NBA, that forbids to put your body into your man to get the correct position for the rebound? To me it often looks like Hollins, Landry or Thompson are just trying to outjump their man. The only guy, who is really sealing his position to get the rebound with his whole body is Reggie atm.

This.

The coach has to see this. I'm not saying he is not seeing this but it's either he isn't doing anything about it or whatever he is doing to address it isn't working.

On a different note,

1. put a rebounder whenwe ate being killed on the offensive glass (LA game)

2. Put best defender who has done a good job on best opponent when he comes back into the game, not after a few plays later. (Houston game)

3. Bring back starters 2 minutes earlier before the lead and momentum built is gone (virtually all the loses)

4. Take out player who doesn't contribute and TOS the ball (most losses) and put in back up point who at least plays defense.

5. Don't put rookie in game winning situation when he is clearly not ready. (LA game? )

To me these simple adjustments could have really netted us 2+ more wins.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Are we going to see any improvement for this team ? Or are we keep going to making excuses for Malone.

 

[lawlman91]

Are we going to see any improvement for this team ? Or are we keep going to making excuses for Malone.

Tonight was on the players; not to say that it's possible that Malone could have done something better. But I don't feel like analyzing coach's decisions. I saw the players make bad, bad turnovers. When the Kings started to miss their 3s, Rudy Gay said, "I'll take over," and began forcing things on the inside. And the rest of the team happily followed. McLemore is always hot in the first because there's no panic; no need for Gay to take over. They have the luxury of playing well, since they aren't worrying about winning; instead, they worry about playing solid basketball.

 

[sdballer]

Are we going to see any improvement for this team ? Or are we keep going to making excuses for Malone.

Did he sleep with your mom or something? It's beyond silly to the point of embarrassing. He's a young coach with things to learn but stop with the everything is his fault routine.

We've all seen this play out before. You keep annoying people with your useless babble until you either lose interest in trolling or you get banned. What's the point for you?

 

[VF21]

Are we going to see any improvement for this team ? Or are we keep going to making excuses for Malone.

Be very careful what you wish for. Malone didn't miss all those shots, Malone didn't make those turnovers. It's always so easy to blame the coach but it doesn't make it right.

That's why the old adage "Players win and coaches lose" is an old adage.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Tonight was on the players; not to say that it's possible that Malone could have done something better. But I don't feel like analyzing coach's decisions. I saw the players make bad, bad turnovers. When the Kings started to miss their 3s, Rudy Gay said, "I'll take over," and began forcing things on the inside. And the rest of the team happily followed. McLemore is always hot in the first because there's no panic; no need for Gay to take over. They have the luxury of playing well, since they aren't worrying about winning; instead, they worry about playing solid basketball.

There seems to be a new problem every night. That sounds like a poorly coached team. We still don't have a real offensive game plan in place and its been almost a year and half since the coach has been hired. I really hope the we didn't go into this season game planing around 1 guy and hope he could be on the floor for every minute of every game for it to work.

Did he sleep with your mom or something? It's beyond silly to the point of embarrassing. He's a young coach with things to learn but stop with the everything is his fault routine.

We've all seen this play out before. You keep annoying people with your useless babble until you either lose interest in trolling or you get banned. What's the point for you?

Banned ? For speaking my mind about how we are one of the worst teams in the league just because we are missing 1 guy. Sorry man, you can keep trying the kool aid. I expect the head coach of a team to do his job and beat bad teams.

 

[theclash4u5]

Be very careful what you wish for. Malone didn't miss all those shots, Malone didn't make those turnovers. It's always so easy to blame the coach but it doesn't make it right.

That's why the old adage "Players win and coaches lose" is an old adage.

Then why isn't Musselman coaching the team? Theus? Natt? Westfail? Smart?

 

[rainmaker]

Tonight was on the players; not to say that it's possible that Malone could have done something better. But I don't feel like analyzing coach's decisions. I saw the players make bad, bad turnovers. When the Kings started to miss their 3s, Rudy Gay said, "I'll take over," and began forcing things on the inside. And the rest of the team happily followed. McLemore is always hot in the first because there's no panic; no need for Gay to take over. They have the luxury of playing well, since they aren't worrying about winning; instead, they worry about playing solid basketball.

I'd agree this has more to do with our talent level than coaching.

Given the stance a couple have around here, I'd think they could turn my cat's poop into a six-course gourmet meal for friends and family.

We don't have much talent. Tis the main issue.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Be very careful what you wish for. Malone didn't miss all those shots, Malone didn't make those turnovers. It's always so easy to blame the coach but it doesn't make it right.

That's why the old adage "Players win and coaches lose" is an old adage.

Some new problem every night. Always something else coming up. It's as if we just hang out in practice. Poorly coached teams keep finding new ways to lose.

 

[VF21]

There seems to be a new problem every night. That sounds like a poorly coached team. We still don't have a real offensive game plan in place and its been almost a year and half since the coach has been hired. I really hope the we didn't go into this season game planing around 1 guy and hope he could be on the floor for every minute of every game for it to work.



Banned ? For speaking my mind about how we are one of the worst teams in the league just because we are missing 1 guy. Sorry man, you can keep trying the kool aid. I expect the head coach of a team to do his job and beat bad teams.

Unfortunately, a head coach can't actually get out there and make the shots or limit the turnovers.

Nobody is denying we're one of the worst teams in the league without Cousins. What we're denying is your myopic view that all the blame belongs on the head coach.

 

[KingMilz]

Some new problem every night. Always something else coming up. It's as if we just hang out in practice. Poorly coached teams keep finding new ways to lose.

For the last 8 years it's always the coach or management, at some point we have to realise it's the players on the floor and the fact every season we are missing a key element to any successful franchise and that's a shot blocker and steady vets who don't beat themselves.

We are not a good team yet, even with Cousins we were consistently and almost in all our losses (even in some of our wins) beating ourselves, good teams don't beat themselves on a regular basis, but we do.

 

[kingsnation]

For the last 8 years it's always the coach or management, at some point we have to realise it's the players on the floor and the fact every season we are missing a key element to any successful franchise and that's a shot blocker and steady vets who don't beat themselves.

We are not a good team yet, even with Cousins we were consistently and almost in all our losses (even in some of our wins) beating ourselves, good teams don't beat themselves on a regular basis, but we do.

What's ironic is that many of our players from the last 8 years went on to become valuable pieces to other teams in the league.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

https://twitter.com/aaronbruski/status/544004261193846785
"MM: “Turnovers, and the inability to make shots just haunted us tonight.”

Same thing every night. "Uh we turned the ball over too much, uhhh , we gotta stop doing that, uh, no I will not make an effort to correct this season long problem, uhh we need Cousins back and then I promise I will be a good coach again"

 

[KingMilz]

What's ironic is that many of our players from the last 8 years went on to become valuable pieces to other teams in the league.

#Vasquez/Patterson/Hayes were pretty much what they were here, except Vasquez is healthy
#JJ Hickson is a back up in Denver
#Thornton still sucks in Boston
#Isaiah Thomas is a cancer in Phoenix
#Tyreke is putting up worse numbers than his last year in Sacramento
#Salmons is beyond awful
#Jimmer still sucks and would not even be playing if Gordon was healthy.
#Thomas Robinson is behind Joel Freeland and Meyers Leonard in the rotation so he's completely fallen out.

Aside from Aaron Brooks and James Johnson no one else in the last 3-4 years I can think off is really thriving.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Malone is "ok" with his teams effort against lowly Detroit playing back-to-back after 2 pt win last night in Phoenix.

"I thanked players in there for their effort." WHAT?!?!

"Not overly disappointed with the offense." What the hell!!?? Kings scored 14 pts in Q3 to basically lose the game at that point.

"Proud of how my guys competed, proud of the effort we put forth." What a great defensive effort coach, especially slowing down that fast breaking Detroit juggernaut.

WOW!!

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Malone is "ok" with his teams effort against lowly Detroit playing back-to-back after 2 pt win last night in Phoenix.

"I thanked players in there for their effort." WHAT?!?!

"Not overly disappointed with the offense." What the hell!!?? Kings scored 14 pts in Q3 to basically lose the game at that point.

"Proud of how my guys competed, proud of the effort we put forth." What a great defensive effort coach, especially slowing down that fast breaking Detroit juggernaut.

WOW!!

Hahahaha, a great head coach.

 

[kingsnation]

#Vasquez/Patterson/Hayes were pretty much what they were here, except Vasquez is healthy
#JJ Hickson is a back up in Denver
#Thornton still sucks in Boston
#Isaiah Thomas is a cancer in Phoenix
#Tyreke is putting up worse numbers than his last year in Sacramento
#Salmons is beyond awful
#Jimmer still sucks and would not even be playing if Gordon was healthy.

Aside from Aaron Brooks and James Johnson no one else in the last 3-4 years I can think off is really thriving.

Vasquez and Patterson are a vital part of Toronto's rotation. They both see over 20 minutes a game for the one of the East's best teams. Hickson plays 20 min a night for Denver and averages 8 and 7. Reke is averaging 16, 5 and 5 for NO and just scored 31 on Cleveland. Salmons contributed last year in Toronto's playoff run. Beno Udrih is playing great for one of the West's best teams.

 

[peacelate]

Players deserve a lot of the blame. Half their turnovers are simply forced and passes that shouldn't be made.

Spacing is horrific, but if you don't have shooters, what do you expect.

 

[KingMilz]

Vasquez and Patterson are a vital part of Toronto's rotation. They both see over 20 minutes a game for the one of the East's best teams. Hickson plays 20 min a night for Denver and averages 8 and 7. Reke is averaging 16, 5 and 5 for NO and just scored 31 on Cleveland. Salmons contributed last year in Toronto's playoff run. Beno Udrih is playing great for one of the West's best teams.

Both Vasquez and PAtterson were a vital part of our rotation as well, again Vasquez was injured and Patterson is basically still the same hot and cold stretch 4, Hickson is average as ever and still playing zero defense and would not help us, Beno during his time in Sacramento was good so not sure why bring that one up (maybe we should never have let him go?) it's not like he got better when he left he was always good, and Reke in his final year here put up 15,4,4 with way better FG% playing less mins and not getting to touch the ball as much as now cause of Thomas.

 

[kingsnation]

Both Vasquez and PAtterson were a vital part of our rotation as well, again Vasquez was injured and Patterson is basically still the same hot and cold stretch 4, Hickson is average as ever and still playing zero defense and would not help us, Beno during his time in Sacramento was good so not sure why bring that one up (maybe we should never have let him go?) it's not like he got better when he left he was always good, and Reke in his final year here put up 15,4,4 with way better FG% playing less mins and not getting to touch the ball as much as now cause of Thomas.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying the players' games have changed or are different since leaving.. I'm saying that these players have been major parts of a losing culture at various times over the last 8 years. However, once they left, many of the players (ex. Vasquez/PP/Salmons in Toronto, Beno in Mem, Hickson in Den, even Salmons in Chicago and at times Cisco in Houston) became vital roleplayers to playoff teams. Why is that?

 

[KingMilz]

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying the players' games have changed or are different since leaving.. I'm saying that these players have been major parts of a losing culture at various times over the last 8 years. However, once they left, many of the players (ex. Vasquez/PP/Salmons in Toronto, Beno in Mem, Hickson in Den, and even Salmons in Chicago) became vital roleplayers to playoff teams. Why is that?

Cause they went to better teams with better chemistry? Didn't Beno go the Bucks and Knicks where they both sucked?

I'm not following what your trying to say, obviously if you go to a better team that's a better fit for you, your going to do better.

 

[kingsnation]

Cause they went to better teams with better chemistry?

Maybe.

Could also be better systems and coaches as well.

 

[kingsnation]

Great coaches know how to get the most out of their talent and system.

 

[KingMilz]

Great coaches know how to get the most out of their talent and system.

We are 11-13 despite playing a brutal schedule and are like 7-2 or 3 when fully healthy and 9-6 with Cuz, if that's not getting the most out of the team's talent than what is? Name another team in the West (that's in near the playoffs) who's 3rd best player is not better than Darren Collison?

 

[kingsnation]

We are 11-13 despite playing a brutal schedule and are like 7-2 or 3 when fully healthy and 9-6 with Cuz, if that's not getting the most out of the team's talent than what is? Name another team in the West (that's in near the playoffs) who's 3rd best player is not better than Darren Collison?

The whole point of this thread (IIRC) is that having Cousins is masking Malone's lack of coaching ability. Our record (w/o Cuz) would indicate this to be true. IMO, there is no indication that Malone is getting anything out of his talent. In fact, this team looks exactly the same right now in these games as they did back in 2012 under an entirely different system and coaches. That could indicate that a) our talent is not improved and/or b) we still don't have a good coach.

I will agree with many that our defense has improved and this is a welcome sight. However, I will also agree that there are way too many of the same mental mistakes being made every single game both by the players and Malone.

Basketball isn't always won by the most talented team but by the team who executes better.

 

[KingMilz]

The whole point of this thread (IIRC) is that having Cousins is masking Malone's lack of coaching ability. Our record (w/o Cuz) would indicate this to be true. IMO, there is no indication that Malone is getting anything out of his talent. In fact, this team looks exactly the same right now in these games as they did back in 2012 under an entirely different system and coaches. That could indicate that a) our talent is not improved and/or b) we still don't have a good coach.

I will agree with many that our defense has improved and this is a welcome sight. However, I will also agree that there are way too many of the same mental mistakes being made every single game both by the players and Malone.

Basketball isn't always won by the most talented team but by the team who executes better.

It can also show the rest of the team sucks and that Cousins is that good that he makes everyone around him better, If you look at what's occurring in Houston all it shows to me is how great James Harden actually is (he's a loser to watch the way he plays).

Aside from Greg Popovich I can't tell who is a good coach and who is not in the NBA. Cause pretty much every team that's doing well is stacked with talent and every team that sucks is not.

 

[Gilles]

Players deserve a lot of the blame. Half their turnovers are simply forced and passes that shouldn't be made.
Spacing is horrific, but if you don't have shooters, what do you expect.

Feels like some people here would prefer shot clock violation TOs instead of forced ones. There's a distinct lack of understanding that nothing could be done other than shooting jumpers or forcing things against NBA athletes packing the paint. "Let's play motion offense!", when that is a recipe for a team that can't create their own shot, but skilled in passing and shooting. Guess what? This team can barely create its own shot or pass, but cannot shoot. What's the best system for that? I suspect, something we are seeing on the floor at the moment.

 

[lawlman91]

I'd agree this has more to do with our talent level than coaching.

Given the stance a couple have around here, I'd think they could turn my cat's poop into a six-course gourmet meal for friends and family.

We don't have much talent. Tis the main issue.

Our talent is O.K., but getting better (sure thing!). If you're looking to trade major pieces, I'd disagree, since I'm in the camp that prefers keeping players. On the other end, coaching is O.K., but I think Malone will adapt, but to what degree, I don't know.

But I think those two factors -- talent and coaching -- aren't as significant as mental fortitude, in relation to the last few games. They may be interconnected somewhat, but not as much to be significant. Just one stretch of time where we miss a bunch of shots -- is that enough to cause turnovers and hero-ball play? It should not! Give the same 3pt shooter that missed the same open looks; chances are, the opponent will leave them open since they missed last time. Punish the opponents for disrespecting the long ball.

As of right now, it's reasonable to say that the Kings are not a finished product. They are still trying to figure out their long range game.

 

[peacelate]

Feels like some people here would prefer shot clock violation TOs instead of forced ones. There's a distinct lack of understanding that nothing could be done other than shooting jumpers or forcing things against NBA athletes packing the paint. "Let's play motion offense!", when that is a recipe for a team that can't create their own shot, but skilled in passing and shooting. Guess what? This team can barely create its own shot or pass, but cannot shoot. What's the best system for that? I suspect, something we are seeing on the floor at the moment.

I would prefer a bad shot over a forced turnover actually. Some players on this team have no problem throwing a bounce pass to player with 3 defenders within 5 feet of him.

 

[Gilles]

KingsFanSince85 from Game thread reminded me once again who Kings played today:
1st option - spectacular failure as a #1 option,
2nd option - career situation starter/backup, whose production dived, when asked to be #2 option with Mavs,
3rd option - did Kings have one? Carl? He actually had decent game, even good by his standards.
starting center - averages 13.5p+11.5r per 36 minutes...oh, no, that's his D-League career numbers. In the NBA it's 11.5p+6.5r per 36 minutes with 12 mpg actually played. As a rebounding center he beats out guys like Clifford Robinson, Anthony Tolliver and Boris Diaw. Just a hair behind Mikki Moore though.
best shooter - worst NBA player with 25+ mpg last season as a rookie. Still not much offensively outside of shooting and at the rim finishing as a sophomore
2nd best shooter - rookie, hitting .245 from 3 or 4th year guy with career .300 from downtown, who averages just above 1 long shot per game? I guess it's the 1st option with career .341 from outside on long shots
backup PG - sophomore with 2 apg per 36 minutes and .9 A/TO ratio and average scoring efficiency at .522TS% after 999 minutes played in the NBA.