Malone discussion (merged)

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Nikefutbolero

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#1
Let's face it, Malone is not a good coach, and everytime Cousins doesn't play the team loses. Obviously they didn't lose last night but they were close to blowing another game with a plethora of bad decisions. Good coaches can get by somewhat with their star player out. Malone has won I think 1 game out of 14 without Cousins, and that is absolutely unacceptable.
 
#2
Recent games without Cousin's are a good time to reflect on his positive impact on the team. He had turned into a dominant defensive rebounder with improving interior defense. He can find a way to score inside late in games. Those are qualities that the Kings have sorely missed late in games without him.

The NBA is dog eat dog sort of a sport. All the teams have talented players. I would give Malone credit for the Kings' increasing ability to be in a position to have a chance to win nearly every night. He has made great strides. This is not the time lay blame at his feet.
 
#3
I will agree that certain aspects of his coaching do need improvement. But I don't know how you can argue that he's not a better than average defensive coach, with the way that he's transformed our culture. And defense is what wins games in the long run so i'll gladly take the bad with the good right now. I think you forget that he's only in his second year of coaching.
 
#4
Let's face it, Malone is not a good coach, and everytime Cousins doesn't play the team loses. Obviously they didn't lose last night but they were close to blowing another game with a plethora of bad decisions. Good coaches can get by somewhat with their star player out. Malone has won I think 1 game out of 14 without Cousins, and that is absolutely unacceptable.
Can you name a coach that would win more than half the games with the Kings roster minus Cousins?

I like Malone. He isn't the greatest coach ever, but the team has bought into his message. I'm just happy to go to games that matter in December... lately the Kings season has already ended by now. I'm sure Malone is still learning how to coach. He will make mistakes, but he seems to care and learn from them. Cousins and Ben have been progressing under his coaching team. Cousins trusts him. The Kings are 10-9 overall. I think all that is acceptable. Maybe you are a bit greedy?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#5
Let's face it, Malone is not a good coach, and everytime Cousins doesn't play the team loses. Obviously they didn't lose last night but they were close to blowing another game with a plethora of bad decisions. Good coaches can get by somewhat with their star player out. Malone has won I think 1 game out of 14 without Cousins, and that is absolutely unacceptable.

And who, sir, would you recommend to replace Malone at the helm?
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#8
PDA's ineptitude maybe (I've actually come around to the gerbil, he just has a lot of work to do).

Malone is a pretty good coach. He's still learning.

But lets not ignore that talent wise, our roster is only 7 players deep.... On a good night.

When he has no tall or defensive players at his disposal, he HAS to go small... There is no other choice. Malone has a reputation as a defensive, Xs and Os kind of coach. Does that sound like someone who wants to play small ball?

PDA needs to do work. Don't know who we have that's tradable, now that we are (probably) holding on to Ben... But PDA needs to get us size and another bench scorer.
 
#9
I agree that Coach Malone is not the greatest coach in the NBA but he's also not the worst. Some of his decisions are questionable. Still, if the players made their shots, FTs, not turned over the ball and played solid D then Coach Malone would be a genius. :D
 
#10
This is absurd what do you expect him to do. He has turned Gay/DMC into all star players yes most of it is on them but they play different then they did under previous coaches.
Sessions/cassipi/Evans/Hollins all wouldn't get more than 15 min on other teams but are our bench players come on son.
 
#11
Im still waiting on a better explanation on why Sessions gets mins over Ray besides "Ramon is a veteran". So what he stinks. The ISO Rudy is also maddening draw a play coach. Im not on the fire him train but he better step his game up.
 
#13
Again, I don't see how this is surprising that we're severely worse when minus a top 10 player. And really, you're looking at 2 guys (Thibs and Pop) who are really the only coaches with a proven track record of being able to turn just about anyone into a competent NBA player and keep chugging along without their star players.
indeed. when healthy, the kings' starting lineup has been among the best in the league--on both sides of the ball. and demarcus cousins' transformation into a legitimate top-5 talent--again, on both sides of the ball--can largely be attributed to his relationship with michael malone. yes, the team usa experience certainly contributed to his ascent, but big cuz has bought into malone's system as fully as any coach could ever hope from a player with demarcus' track record. that coach malone has been able to maximize cousins' talent thus far this season (in ways that, say, monty williams has been unable to maximize anthony davis) is, in my opinion, more than enough to give malone some leash when he doesn't have his once-in-a-decade center available to play...
 
#14
Kingsfans.com has had many loser threads throughout the years (as well as many superb threads), this ranks up there as one of the more asinine to date. To think that it is somehow Malones fault that the Kings suck without their only real great player. So stupid. This is the best coach we have had since Adelman.
 
#15
I believe....

1. That Malone has been our best coach since Adelman. (Not very hard to do)

2. Malone is only on his second year, so will have some learning to do.

3. Is more effective of the defensive side rather than offensive x and o's

4. Has our team playing well, when healthy.

On the other hand. ...

1. He can certainly have some improved rotations, like not having the twin duplex rotations.

2. Have some sense in his rotations (like dwill having a few good games then barely plays the next) this may be hard on some players

3. He must see that our back up PG sucks and at least should play the other back up who at least is an upgrade defensively and in turnovers.

I do think that there is some truth to the OP but perhaps not as grave as it sounds.

If anything, our fragile momentum and culture change shows how much we need cuz, I hope things revert back to more trust and less is every man for himself team we've seen in the last few games.

Is Corbin a better coach???

Can Corbin be the offensive coordinator, and Malone the defensive coach?

At least, these last few games I hope could be a learning experience in how to play when cuz is out with fouls or resting. ....which may serve us well later in the season.

Go kings!
 
#16
PDA's ineptitude maybe (I've actually come around to the gerbil, he just has a lot of work to do).

Malone is a pretty good coach. He's still learning.

But lets not ignore that talent wise, our roster is only 7 players deep.... On a good night.

When he has no tall or defensive players at his disposal, he HAS to go small... There is no other choice. Malone has a reputation as a defensive, Xs and Os kind of coach. Does that sound like someone who wants to play small ball?

PDA needs to do work. Don't know who we have that's tradable, now that we are (probably) holding on to Ben... But PDA needs to get us size and another bench scorer.
Say what?? Pete only had so many bullets to fire and has used all of them to great effect. He got Gay and DC, who have transformed this team. Sessions and Landry you can take issue with, but they showed last night that they can contribute to winning (some) games, which is all you can ask for guys at the end of the rotation. The Casspi pickup was also great.

Ben is playing well and Nik shows limited potential. We won't be able to assess those picks for a couple years, but right now I'd say he's done okay in the draft.

Seriously, do you have any serious complaints about the job he's done? He took probably a bottom 5 nba roster and built one that has a winning record through 20 games against the best in the west
 
#17
We don't have a lot of depth on this team so of course we're going to lose when we don't have one of the best players in the league on the court.

We were able to hold our own back in the day when Webber would get hurt because we still had Peja, Vlade, Bibby, Christie, Jackson, Miller etc.

When Cousins is out we have Gay and Collison as our next two best players. All those guys I named above are better than Collison or at least equal (BJax). We just don't have much depth right now. We shouldn't be 1-16 or whatever without Cousins but I don't feel like I'm watching our coach lose games. I'm watching a roster lose games that is in the beginning stages of being put together.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#19
Most of the positives have been listed above and I don't want to regurgitate what already been said but I agree with the post calling this thread asinine. When this roster becomes on par with say a Memphis roster and we are losing then the critics can have their day. But Malone is getting the most out this group. Injuries and illness has derailed the momentum at the moment. The team has turned into a pretty decent defensive squad at times but without Cuz, what the **** do you expect? Going from Cuz to Hollins, seriously, what the **** do you expect? And I reject the case that Hollins is an adequate replacement....history resoundingly says no, he's not.

Cuz playing the best ball of his career
Gay playing the best ball of his career
Collison playing the best ball of his career
Ben has developed extremely well in all aspects of his game
JT playing the best defense of his career
Casspi playing quality 6th man minutes
Landry and Evans and DWill having quality moments throughout the season.

The only fail is Sessions so far. Nik doesn't count as a rookie...that is the front office choosing a kid that may or may not make it.

The only thing that you might criticize Malone on is not playing Ray over Sessions but the reality is that most head coaches go with vets and give them long leashes......and Ray has had some opportunities and not delivered.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#20
We lost our best player, defender, offensive weapon. He can't really coach players to stop making dumb mistakes or stop sucking without having them play. Our second unit is god-awful and just lacks talent and that has been a significant factor in some of these losses. You can't teach Ramon Sessions to stop sucking or Reggie Evans to create offense, I think he's doing an alright job with what he has and it will only get better.
 
#21
Because with Cousins and another coach this team tore up the league.

We're building something here and Malone has been a part of it and it will get better.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#22
Something is wrong, but it isn't the coach. If anything, the games without Cousins show how this roster just isn't up to snuff as a unit. The fact that Malone has to pretty much change this teams entire style is the main clue that it's the roster. PDA put together a team that still doesn't make complete sense and Malone is doing the right thing to make it work. He's relying on his two stars to carry it so it shouldn't be any surprise that with star A out this team looks nothing like it does when he's in there.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#23
Wait doesn't Cousins not playing actually show how good he is rather than how bad the coach is? Malone has this team playing defense for the first time in a near decade and he even at times has someone as unmotivated as Derrick Williams playing hard in back to back games. We are for the first time losing games not due to weak effort but just player meltdown's/silly choices which Malone can't make for them. Could Malone do some things better? Sure but he's done well enough with what he has to work with.
 
#24
A lot of coaches have flaws. Adleman had his own flaws. (Bad at developing youth, repeatedly got suckered into pace wars by Nellie/Dantoni, ignored defensive players if they couldn't shoot)

Malone should start better stacking his rotations so he has one or two starters in a the same time. Should probably play JT with a bench unit more often.

However, he came in and established a heirarchy on the team that the team respected and that's something that hadn't existed for a long time. The team got an identity about halfway through last season. He molded the offense around Cousins. He's gotten the best out of Cousins.

I think the problem is that everyone in the Kings organization expected Sessions to play far better than he has and nobody is ready to give up on him at this point. The Kings have had two major problems this year, The first is turnovers and the second is maintaining leads. I am not sure what's up with the first problem. It could just simply be a lack of good ball handlers at each position. The turnovers are often dumb ones. The second problem really has to deal with a lack of a third guard that can provide punch and a knockout blow off the bench.
 
#25
Sorry but I must respectfully disagree. I think Malone has done a very good job of turning around the bad culture of losing on this team and has created a culture of competitive basketball. Unlike other coaches who preached defense, Malone has them PLAYING defense. They have made wholesale changes by NBA standards and they have made it work because the record does not lie. They are ABOVE .500 this late in the season, so something must be going right.

Are they a finished product? Not by a long shot. They are a piece or 2 from being consistently competitive. But they are a long way away from the laughingstock of the league. Sacramento not too long ago was a joke of an organization. No one wanted to play or stay in Sacramento because of how inept the ownership, the front office, and the coaching staff was. Players were just going thru the motions till they could ESCAPE from Sacto. Now high profile players are choosing to STAY in Sac (ie Gay's extension) and that will bode well in attracting free agents in the future. Malone is doing a fine job with the limited team he has to work with. No team is going to play lights out without their best player. There are just too many good players in the league to lose your best player and win in the NBA consistently. Lets see what happens when we are at full strength and they start putting together some quality wins. Maybe then all this talk of Malone not being a good coach will disappear. He aint Phil Jackson in his prime, but he certainly AINT REGGIE THEUS EITHER !!
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#27
A lot of coaches have flaws. Adleman had his own flaws. (Bad at developing youth, repeatedly got suckered into pace wars by Nellie/Dantoni, ignored defensive players if they couldn't shoot)

Malone should start better stacking his rotations so he has one or two starters in a the same time. Should probably play JT with a bench unit more often.

However, he came in and established a heirarchy on the team that the team respected and that's something that hadn't existed for a long time. The team got an identity about halfway through last season. He molded the offense around Cousins. He's gotten the best out of Cousins.

I think the problem is that everyone in the Kings organization expected Sessions to play far better than he has and nobody is ready to give up on him at this point. The Kings have had two major problems this year, The first is turnovers and the second is maintaining leads. I am not sure what's up with the first problem. It could just simply be a lack of good ball handlers at each position. The turnovers are often dumb ones. The second problem really has to deal with a lack of a third guard that can provide punch and a knockout blow off the bench.
Agree with all...this is on point. Sessions playing below his norm has hurt tremendously. I really think Stauskas has played well below their expectations as well....and it's understood that rookies struggle but he was supposed to be a guy could play and contribute a certain skill, 3 point shooting, among his other attributes of high BBIQ, passing, etc but he was expected to hold his own and that hasn't materialized either.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#28
I am amazed and pleased at how people came to Malone's defense. I would never use the word asinine in describing something another Kings fan posted.

Anyway, it is interesting to throw Corbin into the mix. What does he add and if he is adding a lot, can we keep him? I like Corbin but think he doesn't have the charisma to be a head coach. He's a nice bench coach to fill in the holes on Malone's knowledge. I think Vivek will pay him enough to keep him happy.

The question about what is missing I think was not supposed to be a serious question coming into the season as I presume the FO thought Nik would fill the hole. So far he hasn't turned out to be much and actually seems to be deteriorating. I hope Gay takes him under his wing. We need another outside bomber and I may be the only one who thinks Nik can grow to be the guy we need. It may be that the main thing he will learn this year is what he needs to improve. I haven't heard anything that says he is not motivated. He is very much like Jimmer and Ben. Tune in next year. We need him to be good.

Don't have a clue why we don't see Ray and I like him. I have to assume that Sessions is outplaying him. I think it is silly to think that Malone would not play the best bench PG.

This year we can sort out who fits and who doesn't. I think PDA has done a good job in a very short time. Get us a rim protector. I'm not sure what to do with a few of our semi-big guys but they may be the trade material to fill the rim protector spot. I like Hollins but not so much for his skills but for his attitude. Maybe he will get more minutes but even if he doesn't, it's always nice to have a 7 footer sitting on the bench.

Malone is doing a good job taking a group of guys who barely knew each other and had us start the season FAST!!!!!
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#29
I think the problem is that everyone in the Kings organization expected Sessions to play far better than he has and nobody is ready to give up on him at this point. The Kings have had two major problems this year, The first is turnovers and the second is maintaining leads. I am not sure what's up with the first problem. It could just simply be a lack of good ball handlers at each position. The turnovers are often dumb ones. The second problem really has to deal with a lack of a third guard that can provide punch and a knockout blow off the bench.
I suspect the turnovers are in large part a function of the guys not knowing each other. There are teams that have had players together for a long time; long enough so that some of the guys could anticipate when their team mates were going to inhale and exhale. It's a concern but let's give this team a while to get to know each other.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#30
Kings are off to the best start in almost a decade.

Fire everyone! Trade everyone! Quick, before we win again.
No offense, but I feel like, in a way, posts like this are just as counterproductive as the OP. There has to be a middle ground around here somewhere... Surely there has to be something between 'OMGTEHSUXORS~!' and 'OMGBESTSTARTSINCE05~!'

Mike Malone isn't a terrible coach; I'm not quite convinced that he's the best coach we've had since Adelman (Reggie Theus came across like a snake oil salesman, but we weren't terrible when he was here). We don't need to get rid of everyone. We do need to get rid of some people, maybe even some people who are actually good, and may actually be good character guys, and may be more valuable if this team were built differently than it is.
 
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