Make yourself heard at Thunder Game

[Iced Espresso]

All those decisions were blatantly obvious ones for Kings fans, who know much more about this team than the national media. Kings fans agreed with those decisions - they clearly don't agree with this. PDA drawing parallels between the various decisions is insincere and/or deluded.

Now that may be the case, but this is not the first time people in general have questioned the front office. Maybe fewer here did, but in general nothing they have done has been supported by national media initially. Nothing, except the discounted resign of Rudy.

Some liked the Malone signing I guess, but was not major news or anything.

Maybe they have a candidate in mind or see something they don't like with what they want to build in the future. Maybe it is simply that Malone is not their guy. This is not a hall of fame coach or anything. Not someone who has been here for years. Why so much love for the guy? What has he done really?

Ok he had the players playing hard, and built some stable chemistry.

Why so quick to hate on the GM or owner now?

 

[Iced Espresso]

Would have loved to. Unfortunately the iron was hot with Cuz out, and Cuz was about to return. And the very thing that should have made this the most fun time to be a Kings fan in a decade -- 6 weeks with only one short roadtrip around New Years -- mean that PDA would never have a chance so good as the one he had now to get away with it. Except he didn't. Its blown up in our faces in a big way, and I thoroughly intend to keep his little rat feet to the flames for as long as possible.

I'd be more inclined to believe that if we did not just lose to Detroit, if we won that game then this happened I'd have to wonder myself.

 

[D13]

Enough already with this! What part of winning doesn't matter as much as style aren't people getting? Our gm has flat out stated his goal, which is to be entertaining.

We had been winning.. sure.. but when things came down, we were losing.. game after easy game with big leads in some. Many questionable coaching decisions in them.

Sheesh...and speaking of enough already crap!... you gonna take that style thing OVER winning quote serious? Like thats what was said? You know it wasn't.

 

[sdballer]

Why so quick to hate on the GM or owner now?

I'm starting to question your ability to read. Multiple people have already responded that the biggest issue is that the front office has gone on record as valuing entertainment as they define it being more important than winning. This move was made with those priorities in mind.

 

[D13]

Classy, but pointless.

Malone is gone. If you wanted to support him, last week would have been the time.

Cause he's an owner who wants flash over substance, and style over wins. Malone was gone at 16-9 too, do you get that? That's direct quote from PDA.

Malone was the right coach finally building this team's identity.

And they're tearing it down. Why can't people see that?

Thats your opinion... I have a different one.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I find that I am in a weird conundrum when I read your posts, I usually agree with a good portion of them, but they always come off so negative. Who is it you exactly have liked on the Kings?

I've liked more guys who've played for the Kings over the 25 years I've been a fan than I'm going to bother typing out on this damned smartphone. It's just that, over the past ten years or so, there hasn't been a ton of overlap between the guys I like and the guys who are nominally considered fan favorites.

 

[Bricklayer]

Now that may be the case, but this is not the first time people in general have questioned the front office. Maybe fewer here did, but in general nothing they have done has been supported by national media initially. Nothing, except the discounted resign of Rudy.

Some liked the Malone signing I guess, but was not major news or anything.

Maybe they have a candidate in mind or see something they don't like with what they want to build in the future. Maybe it is simply that Malone is not their guy. This is not a hall of fame coach or anything. Not someone who has been here for years. Why so much love for the guy? What has he done really?

Ok he had the players playing hard, and built some stable chemistry.

Why so quick to hate on the GM or owner now?

I should ask you the same thing. Why so much love for a 2nd rate nobody GM and a rookie owner who couldn't have told you the difference between a pumpkin and a basketball before he coached his daughter's middle school team? Compared to those clowns Malone has a long and decorated history.

 

[sdballer]

We had been winning.. sure.. but when things came down, we were losing.. game after easy game with big leads in some. Many questionable coaching decisions in them.

Sheesh...and speaking of enough already crap!... you gonna take that style thing OVER winning quote serious? Like thats what was said? You know it wasn't.

He's said it multiple times over the last two days. Have you even followed this at all? He went on the record again today that Malone could have been 16-9 and he still would have been fired because he didn't play the style they want. At no point in all of their blabbering about style and entertainment have they suggested it would lead to a better record.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I'm starting to question your ability to read. Multiple people have already responded that the biggest issue is that the front office has gone on record as valuing entertainment as they define it being more important than winning. This move was made with those priorities in mind.

I've also read they want to play 4 on 5, and Royce was the primary tension between the front office. I'm not going to take a couple of quotes out of context and run with them. Also if they had a specific reason or a few to say, and it made Malone look real bad, I'd expect them not to say much about it either. Not normally what you do when you just take someones job away.

 

[D13]

What gives you the impression that general managers get 'a few weeks' off in the middle of the NBA season to disappear? We play the day after Christmas, IIRC, and I also think we play on New Year's Day. This and the All-Star break is pretty much the only time they had between now and April to do this, where they can hide behind their actions.

I was referring to ownership. But then again nobody says a GM has to be at a game either.

 

[rainmaker]

Now, I've got to beg to differ with this, as well as your previous comment about what "real" Kings Fans should consider a slap in the face. Such comments approach the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy, just as much as earlier comments in the thread about how Kings Fans should be 'too classy'. Those are the sort of labels that don't lead anywhere positive, and that we all should be trying to avoid.

Without directly injecting politics into the conversation, it's not really hard to see how it can draw parallels. Sometimes when you don't make a stand for or against something, it's not because you're afraid to; sometimes, it's just not what you stand for.

I'd agree many times when not making a stand, it's because it's not what you stand for. I'd also say when deciding to not make a stand, change doesn't follow nearly as much as when you do make a stand.

And my point about it being a slap in the face wasn't about making a stand, it was that our FO/Vivek using Peja as a human shield to protect themselves from a negative fan response should come across as a slap in the face to Kings fans. Maybe that's to broad of an assumption. People will respond based on their own personal desires. But I'd be surprised if fans who've followed this team for years weren't insulted by our FO/owner basically using Peja to shield themselves from criticism in a calculated manner.

I also prefaced the Peja comment with "I'd say", as it's my opinion, not a blanket statement that Kings fans do or don't feel this way or that way.

 

[sdballer]

I've also read they want to play 4 on 5, and Royce was the primary tension between the front office. I'm not going to take a couple of quotes out of context and run with them. Also if they had a specific reason or a few to say, and it made Malone look real bad, I'd expect them not to say much about it either. Not normally what you do when you just take someones job away.

You're comparing words that came directly out of pda's mouth with rumors and speculation.

 

[Bricklayer]

We had been winning.. sure.. but when things came down, we were losing.. game after easy game with big leads in some. Many questionable coaching decisions in them.

Sheesh...and speaking of enough already crap!... you gonna take that style thing OVER winning quote serious? Like thats what was said? You know it wasn't.

Oh no, we lost some close games is typical fanspeak for I have never coached or played the sport before. 90%, hell more than 90%, of coaching takes place OFF the court. There are twenty hours of work for every hour spent on the court. The entire trick to being a coach is getting guys to play hard, in a system that they can win in. Our guys did. Oh no, we blew a handful of games with our franchise player out. Must be the coach. Hell, why not the GM? He's the fool who put the team together. Or how about nobody. How about healthy we were the story of the NBA. Now we are back to the joke of the NBA. And when I see fans making excuses for that, part of me thinks you guys kind of deserve the ridicule.

We were losing because Cousins was not available. PERIOD.

Which BTW meant that we were losing just as soon as we took out of the lineup the one guy the new regime did not draft or acquire (well JT too). Their guys? Kinda crap. Which maybe made it more imperative for PDA to scapegoat Malone. If you're aGM and your acquisitions perform like crap...well, better find a scapegoat in a hurry.

.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I should ask you the same thing. Why so much love for a 2nd rate nobody GM and a rookie owner who couldn't have told you the difference between a pumpkin and a basketball before he coached his daughter's middle school team? Compared to those clowns Malone has a long and decorated history.

Well every major move we have made has been positive besides the Landry deal. I still question that to this day, also Withey and Lopez. Not a fan of moving Moute for Williams either. But can understand the Williams trade even though I did not like it.

I have no idea what trades may come here soon, if a better coach for these players will come to the surface here shortly either.

I prefer to see what happens in the near future rather than jumping to too many conclusions right now.

 

[rainmaker]

...and I don't agree that they planned things with Peja's retirement. Makes no sense because you know everybody has to be there... they easily could have just waited and taken a holiday vacation and disappeared for a few weeks till things cooled off.

Well, PDA said this morning that if Malone went 16-9, they'd have fired him anyway. He's also said wins/losses don't matter. So really, he could have fired Malone at any point between this summer when he called Gentry, up until now, or even down the road. Yet he chose to do it right before Peja's ceremony?

Coincidence? Doubtful from where I'm sitting.

 

[Iced Espresso]

You're comparing words that came directly out of pda's mouth with rumors and speculation.

Do you expect Pete to spell out everything they didn't like with Malone just after he got fired?

 

[Chubbs]

Thats your opinion... I have a different one.

You have a different opinion about the words he said? About how when asked directly if he would have fired malone if the team was 16-9 and the answer was yes.

"Coach Malone would still be done if the team was 16-9."

He was fired for a clash of styles, not the losses. I wish people could get that through the their heads and stop imposing their own thoughts.

Sure, to a fan a coach is fired for losing. But that just crystal clearly is not the case here. I'm sorry. It's not a matter of opinion.

 

[Glenn]

We had been winning.. sure.. but when things came down, we were losing.. game after easy game with big leads in some. Many questionable coaching decisions in them.

Sheesh...and speaking of enough already crap!... you gonna take that style thing OVER winning quote serious? Like thats what was said? You know it wasn't.

Firing Malone only makes sense if a better coach is hired. I don't think we have one in mind.

We want style over w/l record to appeal to a lot of people who like cricket better than basketball but might buy Kings goodies if the team was flashy and fun to watch whether the game is understandable to them or not.......... especially if the Kings were owned by one of their own.

 

[Spike]

Do you expect Pete to spell out everything they didn't like with Malone just after he got fired?

He pretty much did, relative to basketball. He very specifically said that he wanted him to play a certain way, and he didn't. He very specifically, on more than one occasion, said that he would have been fired regardless of record. That is what matters.

Now, we could extrapolate, given rumors, that it also involved player usage, but that is not germane to this current point.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

@rainmaker - But that's why I (hesitantly) used politics as a parallel: you say that change doesn't happen as much as when you make a stand. And that's true, as far as it goes. But, playing devil's Advocate for a second, what about when you don't want change to happen? Much as we want to believe otherwise, not everyone is unhappy with how this has played out. And even some of the ones who are don't necessarily think that booing qualifies as taking a stand.

 

[D13]

You have a different opinion about the words he said? About how when asked directly if he would have fired malone if the team was 16-9 and the answer was yes.

"Coach Malone would still be done if the team was 16-9."

He was fired for a clash of styles, not the losses. I wish people could get that through the their heads and stop imposing their own thoughts.

Sure, to a fan a coach is fired for losing. But that just crystal clearly is not the case here. I'm sorry. It's not a matter of opinion.

No... I have a different opinion to your statement;
"Malone was the right coach finally building this team's identity. And they're tearing it down. Why can't people see that?"

 

[Iced Espresso]

He pretty much did, relative to basketball. He very specifically said that he wanted him to play a certain way, and he didn't. He very specifically, on more than one occasion, said that he would have been fired regardless of record. That is what matters.

Now, we could extrapolate, given rumors, that it also involved player usage, but that is not germane to this current point.

They may be building towards a certain philosophy, and if the guy you have is not capable of that long term, you have to consider letting him go even if he is doing ok on his own.

Also it is hard to be candid about problems when you just fire someone, have some sensitivity there.

Things make much more sense here now though, like not giving Malone what he may want or need sometimes, like with defensive role players. Having guys who may be better fits in other schemes.

If anything I put this on Vivek hiring Malone before Pete, sure Pete said he took the job knowing Malone was here. But I don't buy that, I don't think Pete would have hired him.

Honestly I'd have to make a change, be it Pete or Malone. I think they clash.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

At no point in all of their blabbering about style and entertainment have they suggested it would lead to a better record.

I guess I see the problem here. You actually seem to think that our front office fired Malone with the intention of sacrificing wins for entertainment, just because they didn't explicitly say otherwise. Normally professional sports front offices don't have to explicitly come out and say "we want to win as many games as possible". It's kind of understood.

 

[swisshh]

A "slow it down" chant would be hilarious. You know the national TV crew will discuss the emphasis on pace all while the crowd is chanting to slow it up.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I guess I see the problem here. You actually seem to think that our front office fired Malone with the intention of sacrificing wins for entertainment, just because they didn't explicitly say otherwise. Normally professional sports front offices don't have to explicitly come out and say "we want to win as many games as possible". It's kind of understood.

This right here.

And why continue this charade any longer?

They clash, blame Vivek for hiring Malone first.

Now I'm curious what the next "phase" is however, who comes in here, who gets traded etc.

Anyone thinking all of our problems could be fixed a year and a quarter after the Maloofs is rather optimistic.

 

[sdballer]

I guess I see the problem here. You actually seem to think that our front office fired Malone with the intention of sacrificing wins for entertainment, just because they didn't explicitly say otherwise. Normally professional sports front offices don't have to explicitly come out and say "we want to win as many games as possible". It's kind of understood.

BS. Before the season started, we were going to be judging things about wins and losses. Well guess what we started winning, but playing a style they didn't want. So we fired the coach and went on the record multiple times saying it wasn't about wins and losses but rather about stylistic differences.

If you or anyone else wants to decide that he didn't really mean that or that winning is most important should be implied (even though he said the opposite), great. But it doesn't change the facts of what happened or the reasons they are actually stating for why they happened.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I guess I see the problem here. You actually seem to think that our front office fired Malone with the intention of sacrificing wins for entertainment, just because they didn't explicitly say otherwise. Normally professional sports front offices don't have to explicitly come out and say "we want to win as many games as possible". It's kind of understood.

I am much less concerned with the fact that they didn't explicitly mention wins than I am with the fact that they did explicitly mention style. You mentioned in another thread that you care more about if they win than how they win. So, my question to you would be, why doesn't it bother you that the guys running the team don't feel the same way?

 

[sdballer]

This right here.

And why continue this charade any longer?

They clash, blame Vivek for hiring Malone first.

Now I'm curious what the next "phase" is however, who comes in here, who gets traded etc.

Anyone thinking all of our problems could be fixed a year and a quarter after the Maloofs is rather optimistic.

What a wonderful strawman. Like any of us think things would have been fixed that fast or even that we are that close to having it fixed. What we have an issue with is a FO and owner that can't find it's ass with both hands. This isn't a patience issue. It's a confidence issue that they know what the heck they're doing.

 

[Merdiesel]

Like these clowns?... No thanks.

 

[rainmaker]

And that's true, as far as it goes. But, playing devil's Advocate for a second, what about when you don't want change to happen? Much as we want to believe otherwise, not everyone is unhappy with how this has played out. And even some of the ones who are don't necessarily think that booing qualifies as taking a stand.

That's true, and if some don't want to make a stand or boo, that's their prerogative.

I'm not sure we disagree. Everyone has a choice. To my business example if you're an unhappy customer/patron, you essentially have two choices, take your money and spend it elsewhere, or make your feelings known. Of course if you're not unhappy with the service, I doubt you'd consider either option. When you're happy, there's little reason to protest.