Luka Doncic - performance discussion

#91
Even if it was, so what? It's like when Boogie was here. He had the talent but it wasn't enough, on its own, to carry a team or work with what we had in place. Might be the same there - I don't know. I'm not comparing Doncic and Boogie for attitude or anything, just stating that talent alone isn't enough. The pieces have to "fit".

Our pieces seem to be fitting well enough at the start of the season to give us some hope this season. At this point, the Mavs might be looking at a 25 win season max. Or, they mesh better and end up with a good year. Who knows? That's the fun of it, you can never really tell what will happen until the games are played.

I like Luka, and wish him well. Maybe he will end up here eventually. You never know! But I really don't get the hand-wringing, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Players don't always perform the same on different teams and every team needs different things. Let's appreciate what we have without sniping at each other about something we don't. It isn't helpful or productive. And it really is pointless!
Are expecting a rookie to carry his team to victories already? Not to long ago a lot were calling out Fox and he didn’t look half as good as Doncic.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
Contributor
#92
Are expecting a rookie to carry his team to victories already? Not to long ago a lot were calling out Fox and he didn’t look half as good as Doncic.
You didn't read a word I typed. And I'm not going to try to keep explaining it.

I think you are so eager to be offended by anyone not kissing Doncic's feet that you can't be objective.
 
#93
Luka has looked every bit the ROY contender and future multi-allstar franchise player...

... but tonight Luka is playing like hot garbage against the Lakers.

I'm no longer sad we passed on Luka.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#96
He's getting his stats in the fourth but I'm not sure if he's necessarily playing better or if it's just the Lakers being really really crappy.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
I think an offseason with an NBA training staff is going to do him wonders but I also thought that about Jokic and he still looks as chubby as he did coming into the league so what do I know.
Jokic has to be in the top 5 as far as most out of shape and aesthetically looking players, he is so ground bound and smart though that it makes up for it, now come playoff time it can be another animal so who knows how it will play out for him
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
He had like 6 points 3 assists 3 boards closing that game while playing bad before that. That’s called clutch
The Lakers wilting in the 4th quarter is becoming a thing and that was the case even before Luka dropped an 8 point, 4 assist quarter on them. I'm not even arguing that Luka didn't have a good quarter.

You just seem to be unwilling to listen to anyone that doesn't immediately pronounce Luka to be the greatest single NBA prospect since Lebron.
 
Luka really needs to work on losing all that baby fat he has, he will be that much more exciting to watch IMO
I kind of think the extra heft helps him though. he absorbs contact well , can put players on his back in the lane, and is not easily moved. not sure how much faster he would get by losing weight and what would the tradeoff be there...
 
one criticism I would level though is that his defense seemed much better in the 4th during that push. but that means that the intensity/concentration/effort, whatever it may be, was not there in the other 3 quarters. coasting on D to save himself for O?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I kind of think the extra heft helps him though. he absorbs contact well , can put players on his back in the lane, and is not easily moved. not sure how much faster he would get by losing weight and what would the tradeoff be there...
I agree on that front but I almost feel like if he doesn't at least try to get in better shape he might have trouble lasting a full NBA season. (Not that he can't already, for all we know).
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
I kind of think the extra heft helps him though. he absorbs contact well , can put players on his back in the lane, and is not easily moved. not sure how much faster he would get by losing weight and what would the tradeoff be there...
It's hard to say until it actually happens, lots of players thrive on becoming quicker on their feet and what's the use of having all that weight to burden you down when the NBA doesn't allow physical contact any longer, it's all about pace, space and shooting. Not to say he needs to follow that trend but even for longevity purposes here, it could be beneficial to him, in my opinion.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
one criticism I would level though is that his defense seemed much better in the 4th during that push. but that means that the intensity/concentration/effort, whatever it may be, was not there in the other 3 quarters. coasting on D to save himself for O?
I mean, Lebron and most other superstars do it. You could make the argument that he's not on their level yet so he shouldn't be sandbagging it until the game is on the line.
 
It's hard to say until it actually happens, lots of players thrive on becoming quicker on their feet and what's the use of having all that weight to burden you down when the NBA doesn't allow physical contact any longer, it's all about pace, space and shooting. Not to say he needs to follow that trend but even for longevity purposes here, it could be beneficial to him, in my opinion.
i was kinda expecting him to be on his way to losing weight (whether its good or not) given that he is now under the Mavs supervision, but he looks even plumper to me than before...
 
This was honestly his most impressive game in the NBA so far. Had a bad first half, and got it over it real quick and was instrumental in almost beating the Lakers in the 2nd half. Played a smart floor game and was solid defensively.
 
Only 3 players ever have averaged 20 or more ppg in the NBA as a teenager. That's what all the commotion is about. If Luka can keep it up (and that's not going to be an easy task by any means, there's a ton of games left to be played) he joins some elite company. Without looking it up, does anybody know who the 3 players are?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Only 3 players ever have averaged 20 or more ppg in the NBA as a teenager. That's what all the commotion is about. If Luka can keep it up (and that's not going to be an easy task by any means, there's a ton of games left to be played) he joins some elite company. Without looking it up, does anybody know who the 3 players are?
Melo, Bron, KD. One of these is not like the other.
 
Well
Only 3 players ever have averaged 20 or more ppg in the NBA as a teenager. That's what all the commotion is about. If Luka can keep it up (and that's not going to be an easy task by any means, there's a ton of games left to be played) he joins some elite company. Without looking it up, does anybody know who the 3 players are?
Reke did the whole 20-5-5 as a 19-20 yo and we were hot garbage. To be honest, I think if we give Bagley the minutes, he probably would be getting 20 a game but we wouldn't be 5-3.
 
Melo, Bron, KD. One of these is not like the other.
Correct! I wouldn't undersell Melo's accomplishments though (I assume that's the guy you're referring to since the other 2 have MVP awards) -- he's been on a downward slide since he turned 30 but he was one of the top scorers in the league for a decade before that. He's played in 10 All-Star games, led his team to the playoffs in 10 straight seasons, accumulated several legendary playoff performances, won 3 gold medals. And he's 19th on the All-Time scoring list.
 
Well

Reke did the whole 20-5-5 as a 19-20 yo and we were hot garbage. To be honest, I think if we give Bagley the minutes, he probably would be getting 20 a game but we wouldn't be 5-3.
Reke turned 20 before that season started. He never played a game in the NBA as a teenager.

Lots of guys could have done it but those are the only 3 who did which counts for something. I don't know why you're getting weird about it though. I'm merely trying to explain why people are excited about how Doncic is playing so far. It's not because they're all fanboys or still sore over the draft, he is legitimately putting together some exceptional performances and accounting for how young he is, his numbers are almost without precedent. Yes Bagley is also a teenager (he's 2 weeks younger than Doncic in fact) and all he has to do is increase his scoring average to 13.5 ppg to match Anthony Davis' first season. Pretty good company there too! Don't get it twisted, I'm not trying to say stats guarantee anything. Some of you feel the need to jump in and qualify everything with a "not so fast". To what end? I do remember how hyped we all were about Tyreke's rookie season (for good reason!) but remember he also couldn't shoot. At all. And for that matter, neither could KD or Lebron in their first seasons. Regardless of how good you are at 19 or 20, to be truly elite you have to keep getting better.
 
Correct! I wouldn't undersell Melo's accomplishments though (I assume that's the guy you're referring to since the other 2 have MVP awards) -- he's been on a downward slide since he turned 30 but he was one of the top scorers in the league for a decade before that. He's played in 10 All-Star games, led his team to the playoffs in 10 straight seasons, accumulated several legendary playoff performances, won 3 gold medals. And he's 19th on the All-Time scoring list.
Right, and he can't be bothered to play defense most of the time, and if he's not the #1 option on the team he's toxic. There's more to basketball than scoring.
 
Right, and he can't be bothered to play defense most of the time, and if he's not the #1 option on the team he's toxic. There's more to basketball than scoring.
Yeah cause the guy with 'Defense Matters' in his signature clearly needs to be reminded that there's more to bball than scoring. :rolleyes: You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

If you had actually watched the game, nothing you said is true anyway. He got a key stop on LeBron down the stretch, passed to Barnes on the wing for an open three which cut the lead and then knocked down the shot that tied the game.
 
I bring up Reke a lot, not to bash him, but to keep perspective of what happens when a team loses focus on the big picture to sell a player. It became so damned important to the FO (and to be fair, many of us fans) to get a ROY, to get that silly 20-5-5 achievement, no matter how forced it was, that his future development and the success of the team as a whole fell by the wayside. This is compounded by the fact that his body wasn't ready and we wore him down, which hampered development the remainder of his time with the club and the burden that this season created for all future expectations.

You'd be hard pressed to find a better example of a club destroying a player's potential than what we did to Reke.

I have no idea how any of this may relate to Doncic however. And as someone who has no feelings towards the Mavs I also don't care. I do however like the approach this team has taken with it's recent picks and I think it gives them time to blossom and develop complete games while also shying away from bad habits that can't be unlearned.