Luka Doncic - performance discussion

#32
Clarification: This thread ISN'T for a comparison of Bagley to Doncic. That's what the other thread dissolved into. This one was created specifically to discuss Luka Doncic. I cannot believe how ridiculous some of this is getting. Luka's career will go on, believe it or not, regardless of Marvin Bagley. Bagley's career will also go on, regardless of how good or bad Doncic does with the Mavs - or anywhere else.

Don't be a jerk.

Don't feel the need to post snark at every turn.

Don't feel you have to argue with anyone who says Doncic is gonna be a good player.

It's not rocket science and it certainly isn't that hard to understand.
Comparing Bagley and Doncic is the main point of the conversation. You can't separate that out of the thread. People aren't talking about Doncic because they just happen to like Doncic. It's because he was available at 2 and the Kings went with Bagley instead, so naturally people are going to compare the two. If Doncic went first and the Kings still selected Bagley, this would be an Ayton thread and people would be comparing Bagley and Ayton.

A bunch of Kings fans aren't just randomly all Doncic fans for no reason. It's the draft night scenario that still has people talking about him. You can't separate that out of the conversation because it's basically the whole point of talking about the guy.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#33
Comparing Bagley and Doncic is the main point of the conversation. You can't separate that out of the thread. People aren't talking about Doncic because they just happen to like Doncic. It's because he was available at 2 and the Kings went with Bagley instead, so naturally people are going to compare the two. If Doncic went first and the Kings still selected Bagley, this would be an Ayton thread and people would be comparing Bagley and Ayton.
Actually, yes we can. That's why there are two different threads.

A bunch of Kings fans aren't just randomly all Doncic fans for no reason. It's the draft night scenario that still has people talking about him. You can't separate that out of the conversation because it's basically the whole point of talking about the guy.
Strangely enough, most of the people posting in this thread have figured out how to do exactly that, though. People who still want to re-litigate the draft pick are free to do so in the other thread. This thread is for people who want to talk about Doncic, without all of that nonsense. Posts which attempt to bring that conversation into this thread will be moved to the other one. Posters who refuse to follow directions after being told not to bring that in here will have their ability to post in this thread restricted.
 
#34
Oh the other thread that some mod got angry with because it didn't jive with their opinion so they decided to place a negative label on the thread to try and make people feel stupid for posting in it? Yeah I'll pass on that.
 
#37
he did well tonight. two of his threes popped in and out so he was this close to crossing 20 again. he handles the ball a lot so I expect there to be a lot of turnovers, especially this first season while he is still adjusting to NBA basketball. played heavy minutes today (36)
 
#40
Ok, small sample size. But...
He's already producing better stats in his first three NBA games than in the last Euroleague season.
Please, tell me again about the lower level.
 
#41
Ok, small sample size. But...
He's already producing better stats in his first three NBA games than in the last Euroleague season.
Please, tell me again about the lower level.
Did you not learn through this? Dominating in high school or college is better than dominating the 2nd best league in the world.

And his shot will be on automatic in 2-3 year he’ll be a 20-8-5 guy when Dallas hands him the keys. Even in that game in the 3rd they ignored him quite a bit
 
#42
I don't know who you think "some mod" is, but I re-named that thread. I am also not angry with you, nor do I have any particular thoughts on your opinion.

I'll end it with this: keep trying to re-litigate the pick in this thread, and see how long that continues.
You negatively renamed the thread because you were tired of the discussions that were going on in it. You were angry at something, otherwise the thread wouldn't have been renamed to try and make people feel stupid for even discussing anything in it. You provide next to zero content here about the Kings and most of the content you do provide involves you swooping in on others discussions to argue conversation semantics with your holier than thou attitude and logic that you seem to think is so far advanced compared to everyone else. It's tiresome. Either block me or ban me but stop conversing with me because your contributions to this board the last few years have been nothing other than worthless negativity that have nothing to do with the game of basketball.
 
#44
He's looked really good and he's fun to watch. I'm not criticizing or upset in the least, and I like Bagley, but part of me is a little sad that Luka is not a King.
I like Bagley too but I like Luka better, he just does more things and I think ultimately will make more people around him better.

One thing interesting to ponder.......imagine if the Kings had somehow pulled off getting both Bagley and Doncic. That would have been the ultimate tandem and they would have been deadly in the pick n roll in a couple years. Luka is already playing a great two-man game with DeAndre Jordan.......I can only imagine what he could do with a younger quicker and more nimble guy like Bagley.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#45
You negatively renamed the thread because you were tired of the discussions that were going on in it.
This is chronologically incorrect: I renamed the thread after the discussion had already been split, by somebody else. I wasn't 'tired' of the discussion. Hell, that thread was a good 2300 posts deep before I could even be bothered to click on it. I was barely even aware of it until it got moved from #PersonnelMoves into the #NBA subfolder. Also, you say "negatively," I say accurately. I'm not going to say which one of us is wrong... but I am gonna say it ain't me.

You were angry at something, otherwise the thread wouldn't have been renamed to try and make people feel stupid for even discussing anything in it.
That's... not how that works. And, if you felt stupid for doing what the thread says it's there for, then maybe you need to look at yourself, and ask why.

You provide next to zero content here about the Kings...
So? That's not in the terms of service. To say nothing of the fact that this claim is entirely inconsistent with the accusation of me getting tired of the discussion surrounding the Kings' pick. Although, apropos of nothing, I am suddenly wondering what RoyalDiva has been up to, these days?

.... and most of the content you do provide involves you swooping in on others discussions to argue conversation semantics with your holier than thou attitude and logic that you seem to think is so far advanced compared to everyone else.
You don't appear to know what that means.

Either block me or ban me but stop conversing with me...
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and do none of the above. I'm not going to put you on ignore, because I'm philosophically opposed to ignoring people who aren't allowed to ignore me. I'm not going to ban you, because you haven't done enough to be banned yet, habitual line-stepper though you may be. And, as far as the third thing, well... there's a simple solution to getting me to stop responding to you, but it doesn't involve anything I'm doing.

I still can't believe that you're creating all this smoke, just because you don't want to post about a topic in a thread that is specifically labeled for that exact discussion. And you claim that people can't separate the two issues, but you're the only one who appears to be having any difficulty with that.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#46
MOD VOICE: Here's the deal. Modding a sports board is a thankless task. Those of us who do it are here because we, for the most part, love the exchange of ideas, etc. We don't do it for glory, for some kind of God complex, etc. We aren't going to please all the people all the time. If you have a beef with one of us, take it to a "conversation." Hash it out privately.

This thread is about how Luka Doncic performs in his first year in the NBA. It's not a comparison of Doncic to Bagley (or any other rookie) or a place to post your dislike of how the board is run. The former belong in the other Doncic thread; the latter doesn't belong at all.

We have been around as a moderated board for a very long time and have outlived multiple non-moderated boards for the simple reason most people get tired of flamewars, name-calling, etc. We try and be fair but we are human. It would be nice if we could all get along but when we don't, it's the responsibility of the moderators to step in.

Thank you for consideration.

I now return you to your discussion of LUKA DONCIC.
 
#47
I’m coming around to making peace with the non Luka, Bagley choice. Not just because Bagley playing better, and with confidence, and some of the advanced stats.. But regardless of who I may think personally is a better individual talent going forward, the more I watch Dallas and De’aaron the more I see the fit issue. The fact that De’Aaron is developing like he is saves the equation IMO. I watch Luka and wonder, as special as dudes talent IMO, if he is capable of playing off ball or with another strong ball handler. I think he will always play a PG role, and how that benefits the offense with an unathletic for a PG role, point-forward running things long term, who knows.

But mainly I thought he was more capable of playing off ball than I’ve seen the last few games. I’m not sure he is like I thought

I still think Jackson will be a baller, but that’s another issue to watch in the future, Bags v Jackson. But I could see Bagley’s appeal to the FO on draft night
Ya I’ve come around too but damn watching Luka/Fox/Bogdan/Buddy would’ve been showtime in Sacramento.

And I’m 100% sure he’d have fit with Fox as he’s off the ball a lot in Dallas and is at 19-6-4.
 
#48
Ya I’ve come around too but damn watching Luka/Fox/Bogdan/Buddy would’ve been showtime in Sacramento.

And I’m 100% sure he’d have fit with Fox as he’s off the ball a lot in Dallas and is at 19-6-4.
He leads the Mavs in usage. He’s very rarely off the ball. His talent is wasted sitting in the corner waiting for a kick out.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#49
Ya I’ve come around too but damn watching Luka/Fox/Bogdan/Buddy would’ve been showtime in Sacramento.

And I’m 100% sure he’d have fit with Fox as he’s off the ball a lot in Dallas and is at 19-6-4.
I'm not quite sure you've been watching the same Mavs games as I have. Not only is he leading the team in usage but DSJ's usage has fallen despite the both of them largely splitting ball control duties with some JJ Barea thrown in. 63% of his field goals have been unassisted (Lebron, by comparison has has 58.7% of his field goals unassisted. Notoriously ball dominant guard James Harden has an 81.1% unassisted field goals made, so... yay?).
 
#50
Ya I’ve come around too but damn watching Luka/Fox/Bogdan/Buddy would’ve been showtime in Sacramento.

And I’m 100% sure he’d have fit with Fox as he’s off the ball a lot in Dallas and is at 19-6-4.
Concur with all the the other fellas:

Dennis Smith isn't working in conjunctuion with Doncic at all, it's an either or situation right now and the Mavs have been leaning heavily towards just giving the keys to Doncic. And 19-6-4 looks pretty, but it's basically all tied to him getting big usage and minutes. The efficiency numbers have been atrocious.

Now, I don't really care about a bad 5-game stretch from Doncic.... because it's 5 games. But I do think it's important to note that Doncic has basically come right in and been the lead cog at the direct expense of DSJ. Be very interested to see if they can get the 2 of them working together.
 
#51
Concur with all the the other fellas:

Dennis Smith isn't working in conjunctuion with Doncic at all, it's an either or situation right now and the Mavs have been leaning heavily towards just giving the keys to Doncic. And 19-6-4 looks pretty, but it's basically all tied to him getting big usage and minutes. The efficiency numbers have been atrocious.

Now, I don't really care about a bad 5-game stretch from Doncic.... because it's 5 games. But I do think it's important to note that Doncic has basically come right in and been the lead cog at the direct expense of DSJ. Be very interested to see if they can get the 2 of them working together.
I do not mean to derail the larger discussion about whether Luka can play with another ball dominant player, but I do want to nitpick your comment a bit to add more nuance to the analysis of Luka's numbers. Dallas has played 4 games. Luka was excellent in 2 and horrible in 2. In the 2 excellent games he shot 50% from the field and 41% from three. In the two horrible games he shot 35% from the field and 14% from three. Same large volume of shots/threes in all 4 games. So it has not been a bad 5 game stretch, but more of an up and down, or rather down, up, up, down. Coincidentally, Mavs won the 2 excellent games and lost the 2 horrible ones.

The biggest question mark for Luka coming to the NBA was how he will handle the more athletic, defensive minded wings in the NBA. Well, Kawhi and the Raptors are coming to town.

As far as Bagley is concerned I think he is doing great, and its not just because of the lowered expectations after the summer league. He seems to be improving very quickly. He will need to work on his defensive awareness and team defense but he has been great defending the paint one on one. Even his 3s look ok to me. Currently I think we have a spacing issue with playing WCS and Bagley together because they both want to be in the same spot but I am expecting Bagley's outside shot to improve with time. Exciting!
 
#52
Smith hasn’t been good dating back to college

Concur with all the the other fellas:

Dennis Smith isn't working in conjunctuion with Doncic at all, it's an either or situation right now and the Mavs have been leaning heavily towards just giving the keys to Doncic. And 19-6-4 looks pretty, but it's basically all tied to him getting big usage and minutes. The efficiency numbers have been atrocious.

Now, I don't really care about a bad 5-game stretch from Doncic.... because it's 5 games. But I do think it's important to note that Doncic has basically come right in and been the lead cog at the direct expense of DSJ. Be very interested to see if they can get the 2 of them working together.

I'm not quite sure you've been watching the same Mavs games as I have. Not only is he leading the team in usage but DSJ's usage has fallen despite the both of them largely splitting ball control duties with some JJ Barea thrown in. 63% of his field goals have been unassisted (Lebron, by comparison has has 58.7% of his field goals unassisted. Notoriously ball dominant guard James Harden has an 81.1% unassisted field goals made, so... yay?).
The games I watched smith handled the ball a lot and plays were ran through Matthews

He leads the Mavs in usage. He’s very rarely off the ball. His talent is wasted sitting in the corner waiting for a kick out.
I wouldn’t say wasted as he worked great off the ball with Dragic and Llull