[Game] Los Angeles Clippers at Sacramento Kings, 11/29/2023, 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730094766422139307

 

[ick300]

Hard game to watch … exhausted team unfortunately
From my point of view the best thing in the game was the solid performance by Vezenkov , but clearly teammates doesn’t have still full faith in him … many times he stayed open but both fox and mitchel preferred to go for the layup in the crowd
Hope we will see soon some more minutes for him with Murray , Fox , Sabonis ….
Domas has to be more consistent… two good two bad games won’t make him a real mvp contender
Haven’t seen much from Lyles myself , but he is loosing the momentum too ? Will he return fast ?
Huerter and Barnes are not to be discussed from me

 

[206Fan]

it's only a matter of time before Vezenkov gets a chance, he's a seasoned vet and has played in big games in Euroleague

Players have to start looking out for Sasha and getting used to his movements. He's been able to get himself open more times than we've been able to get him the ball. Sasha is a good 3pt shooter, but there's more to him than standing at the 3pt line and waiting for the ball.

 

[sono]

I think Brown might be putting more of that DHO in for him after tonight. I thought it was interesting that Brown played Sasha with the starters down the stretch. He was giving it a good look.

Could be, the same thing happened against the Dubs yesterday.

 

[iowamcnabb]

This is my view on Domas. He sometimes struggles against players bigger than him and sometimes he plays really well against them. He dominates everyone else. There only a few guys in the whole league that he doesn’t dominate. The coaches need to do a better job of making offensive adjustments for those players. The same group of guys who have orchestrated the number one offense in league history should be able to put Domas in a better position to succeed on those nights. The sample size is large enough to know who he might struggle against.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730094766422139307

Unfortunately, considering how the rest of the team played, that was also the most Cousins-esque forty point game the Kings have seen in a while.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Players have to start looking out for Sasha and getting used to his movements. He's been able to get himself open more times than we've been able to get him the ball. Sasha is a good 3pt shooter, but there's more to him than standing at the 3pt line and waiting for the ball.

integrate more cuttting for him too. I love the free flowing offense but we are fairly singular noted on that end occasionally. I need more wrinkles

 

[sactowndog]

Sure. In free agency, you should expect to pay 3% of the league salary cap to get 1 Win Share. This year, 3% of the league salary cap is $4.1M. At his $17M salary, Barnes would be at market value if he produced 4.1 Win Shares. He is currently on pace for 5.1 Win Shares, which would be worth $21M. Thus, he is statistically outproducing his contract.

Barnes came into this season as obviously the 5th option on that starting team, and given the presence of Monk, with the expectation of being at best the #6 scorer on the team. He is currently just that in per-game average (#3-#6 are separated by 1.1 points) and #4 in total points, because he doesn't miss games. At .632 he holds the best TS% of any non-post player on the team (yes, he's more efficient - though more selective - than Fox). Among regular rotation players he has the third best FTr (behind Fox/Domas) despite having an extremely low usage rate (only marginally higher than Duarte's usage).

Fox and Domas are our stars. But even then, Barnes is being asked to take a back seat to Murray, and to Huerter, and to Monk and he goes out there every night and plays the fifth wheel, never complains, and despite being an afterthought in the offense still manages to statistically outperform his contract. His biggest sin is not being a flashy player, and being the sixth option on the team which leads to him being dogpiled for "not doing anything". I'm not saying we should declare him our lord and savior but the dude is holding his own and he gets nothing but crap for it.

I think some of the complaints are more on defense. I think it’s clear Barnes doesn’t have the lateral quickness to guard 3’s. Unfortunately the Clippers have 2 3’s and the one guy we have who can defend and make shots is hurt. We really really need Edwards to find his shot.

 

[Tetsujin]

Unfortunately, considering how the rest of the team played, that was also the most Cousins-esque forty point game the Kings have seen in a while.

That was very much a “Boogie goes on a solo 10-0 run to cut the lead to 9 with 5 minutes remaining before his inept teammates take turns dribbling the ball off their feet and/or passing the ball into the stands to ice the game” sort of performance

 

[ick300]

Players have to start looking out for Sasha and getting used to his movements. He's been able to get himself open more times than we've been able to get him the ball. Sasha is a good 3pt shooter, but there's more to him than standing at the 3pt line and waiting for the ball.

I think only Brown refuse to see this at this point
Orrrr he is , but he is saving it for some better time …

 

[sactowndog]

integrate more cuttting for him too. I love the free flowing offense but we are fairly singular noted on that end occasionally. I need more wrinkles

isn’t that the problem with the Warriors drop. Hard to cut when you have a rim protector standing in the lane.

 

[iowamcnabb]

It was more about cap flexibility to re-sign Monk and also go after someone this upcoming offseason rather then tie up funds preventing that option.

Monte had to give himself options outside free agency given our track record with signings and the fact that free agency is trending down league wide at least with the top end talent. If we didn’t re-sign Barnes you have no salary to match on a trade for an upper echelon player.

 

[iowamcnabb]

isn’t that the problem with the Warriors drop. Hard to cut when you have a rim protector standing in the lane.

To some extent but he has to stay on one side of the lane. If he collapses on the cutter that could open up the lane for Domas

 

[sactowndog]

This is my view on Domas. He sometimes struggles against players bigger than him and sometimes he plays really well against them. He dominates everyone else. There only a few guys in the whole league that he doesn’t dominate. The coaches need to do a better job of making offensive adjustments for those players. The same group of guys who have orchestrated the number one offense in league history should be able to put Domas in a better position to succeed on those nights. The sample size is large enough to know who he might struggle against.

so not being snarky….

Assuming you have a stronger (I changed it from bigger as Wemby and Gobert are bigger but both can be bullied) player who is playing a drop and staying in the paint…..

what do you see as potential positions to succeed?

 

[206Fan]

I think only Brown refuse to see this at this point
Orrrr he is , but he is saving it for some better time …

Brown is trying to push Sasha to be better on defense. He wants to see consistent defensive effort and more importantly, less mistakes. The problem is that Sasha is already 28 and isn't going to get all that much better lol.

I would probably rate Sasha as a below average defender at the moment. His team defense has been really solid though.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730104654523257194

 

[ick300]

Brown is trying to push Sasha to be better on defense. He wants to see consistent defensive effort and more importantly, less mistakes. The problem is that Sasha is already 28 and isn't going to get all that much better lol.

I would probably rate Sasha as a below average defender at the moment. His team defense has been really solid though.

he is week on defending player with fast dribble and fade away 3pt shooting , but inside the paint he is doing pretty pretty well ….
And I think he is putting a good amount of effort to make his defence stronger …
But he can be used much more in attack …
He isn’t getting the ball enough imo … and not about shooting only , he can make that extra pass which well clear someone else (fox against warriors for example)

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Sure. In free agency, you should expect to pay 3% of the league salary cap to get 1 Win Share. This year, 3% of the league salary cap is $4.1M. At his $17M salary, Barnes would be at market value if he produced 4.1 Win Shares. He is currently on pace for 5.1 Win Shares, which would be worth $21M. Thus, he is statistically outproducing his contract.

Barnes came into this season as obviously the 5th option on that starting team, and given the presence of Monk, with the expectation of being at best the #6 scorer on the team. He is currently just that in per-game average (#3-#6 are separated by 1.1 points) and #4 in total points, because he doesn't miss games. At .632 he holds the best TS% of any non-post player on the team (yes, he's more efficient - though more selective - than Fox). Among regular rotation players he has the third best FTr (behind Fox/Domas) despite having an extremely low usage rate (only marginally higher than Duarte's usage).

Fox and Domas are our stars. But even then, Barnes is being asked to take a back seat to Murray, and to Huerter, and to Monk and he goes out there every night and plays the fifth wheel, never complains, and despite being an afterthought in the offense still manages to statistically outperform his contract. His biggest sin is not being a flashy player, and being the sixth option on the team which leads to him being dogpiled for "not doing anything". I'm not saying we should declare him our lord and savior but the dude is holding his own and he gets nothing but crap for it.

I wish I could "like" this post 100x.

Well done, Sir Capt.

 

[PacMan]

Last year the Kings were fortunate to play Clippers with one of their stars out. This year, not so much. They even have Zubac back.

Are you talking about the triple OT game in LA? We beat them with PG and Kawhi dropping 34 and 44 points
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401469057

 

[PacMan]

Plus last year, the Clippers had Plumlee playing and he wound up being miserably bad and helped fuel our comeback in the double OT game.

Nah we kick their ass with both Kawhi and PG in that triple OT game

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't know whether a game that went to triple overtime can reasonably be called an "ass kicking," but mileage obviously varies.

 

[Section 101]

Brown is trying to push Sasha to be better on defense. He wants to see consistent defensive effort and more importantly, less mistakes. The problem is that Sasha is already 28 and isn't going to get all that much better lol.

I would probably rate Sasha as a below average defender at the moment. His team defense has been really solid though.

It's not about his age. He just needs to adjust to the NBA speed and rules. He's not going to be a good defender from his physical speed, but his IQ and anticipation. We're already seeing it.

 

[iowamcnabb]

so not being snarky….

Assuming you have a stronger (I changed it from bigger as Wemby and Gobert are bigger but both can be bullied) player who is playing a drop and staying in the paint…..

what do you see as potential positions to succeed?

I don’t have a strong enough grasp on the X’s and O’s to have a ton of answers but I’d like to see him take 3s because he shoots them at a solid clip and it’s a higher value basketball shot. I also wonder if he could get the ball in the post in different positions instead of always starting at the elbow and slowly working his way in. Use guys like Monk to set him up more? How about utilizing more half hooks? He has it in his bag but generally just tries ramming his way close to the basket hoping to bully one home or draw a foul.

The only guys I can think of that have given him trouble ( not every time mind you, he has had good games against all these guys) are
1) Looney
2) Steven Adams
3) Valanciunas
4) Sengun
5) Kessler
I’m sure Embiid would be tough but I don’t recall those matchups.

That’s only 5ish players that can defend Sabonis. Even if he can’t get to the point of consistently dominating these guys, there has to be some solution to minimizing the dud performances.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Sure. In free agency, you should expect to pay 3% of the league salary cap to get 1 Win Share. This year, 3% of the league salary cap is $4.1M. At his $17M salary, Barnes would be at market value if he produced 4.1 Win Shares. He is currently on pace for 5.1 Win Shares, which would be worth $21M. Thus, he is statistically outproducing his contract.

Barnes came into this season as obviously the 5th option on that starting team, and given the presence of Monk, with the expectation of being at best the #6 scorer on the team. He is currently just that in per-game average (#3-#6 are separated by 1.1 points) and #4 in total points, because he doesn't miss games. At .632 he holds the best TS% of any non-post player on the team (yes, he's more efficient - though more selective - than Fox). Among regular rotation players he has the third best FTr (behind Fox/Domas) despite having an extremely low usage rate (only marginally higher than Duarte's usage).

Fox and Domas are our stars. But even then, Barnes is being asked to take a back seat to Murray, and to Huerter, and to Monk and he goes out there every night and plays the fifth wheel, never complains, and despite being an afterthought in the offense still manages to statistically outperform his contract. His biggest sin is not being a flashy player, and being the sixth option on the team which leads to him being dogpiled for "not doing anything". I'm not saying we should declare him our lord and savior but the dude is holding his own and he gets nothing but crap for it.

Bra flipping vo. Excellent post.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I don’t have a strong enough grasp on the X’s and O’s to have a ton of answers but I’d like to see him take 3s because he shoots them at a solid clip and it’s a higher value basketball shot. I also wonder if he could get the ball in the post in different positions instead of always starting at the elbow and slowly working his way in. Use guys like Monk to set him up more? How about utilizing more half hooks? He has it in his bag but generally just tries ramming his way close to the basket hoping to bully one home or draw a foul.

The only guys I can think of that have given him trouble ( not every time mind you, he has had good games against all these guys) are
1) Looney
2) Steven Adams
3) Valanciunas
4) Sengun
5) Kessler
I’m sure Embiid would be tough but I don’t recall those matchups.

That’s only 5ish players that can defend Sabonis. Even if he can’t get to the point of consistently dominating these guys, there has to be some solution to minimizing the dud performances.

In addition, he can't ram his way through Zubac, Jokic, and Nurkic. Doesn't mean he's never played well against them. Just that his usual bread and butter style, is not generally effective against them. We'll see how he does in next two games against Jokic and Valanciunas. Hopefully it goes well

 

[Caccia]

Wait so your argument is that De'Aaron is too good at scoring and should do less of the only thing that was working for us so Huerter, Barnes, and Trey could clang some more open threes instead?

I find it truly surprising that Mr. Fox rarely passes the ball to his buddy, Malik Monk. You know, the guy shooting 40.2% from three this season, who was 2-5 from deep last night and 3-7 the night before? The guy who can score nine points in 90 seconds? Monk is out there on the three-point line, ready to shoot, but Fox never kicks the ball out to him unless he runs into a total dead end. Considering the obvious connection between the two, Fox could certainly take more advantage of it.

I get the impression that Coach Brown has put such an onus on Fox to score AND defend that it leads to unbalanced scoring. Last season, it was normal to see five or six players in double figures. Last night, just as an example, Fox had 40 points but no one else had more than fifteen: Sabonis 11, Vezenkov 13, Monk 15. Fox took 23 shots, while only Sabonis, with 12 attempts, had more than 8.

The problems vary from night to night on both ends of the court, but as I watch the games, unbalanced scoring is a common theme.

 

[Caccia]

This is my view on Domas. He sometimes struggles against players bigger than him and sometimes he plays really well against them. He dominates everyone else. There only a few guys in the whole league that he doesn’t dominate. The coaches need to do a better job of making offensive adjustments for those players. The same group of guys who have orchestrated the number one offense in league history should be able to put Domas in a better position to succeed on those nights. The sample size is large enough to know who he might struggle against.

Good take. I do have some confidence that the coaches will come up with more solutions. Teams around the league know the centrality of Sabonis to the Kings' offense, and plan around that.

 

[The_Jamal]

In addition, he can't ram his way through Zubac, Jokic, and Nurkic. Doesn't mean he's never played well against them. Just that his usual bread and butter style, is not generally effective against them. We'll see how he does in next two games against Jokic and Valanciunas. Hopefully it goes well

I already posted the stats he's had vs these teams as a King. Both still excellent numbers.

He's shown he can dominate these elite centers. Most notably this year, when he torched AD for like 29-14 and held him to 9-9 on poor shooting

 

[ESP47]

I wonder what the Kings record on the 2nd night of back to backs is going back to last year? I feel like a loss is as predictable as it gets in these back to back games. Seems like they always play terribly.

 

[dude12]

Reading through this game thread, nothing like a few rough games for a player and to see forum members flip on them to the point where, say, Domas is not good enough. Some of these guys, I know one in particular was adamant that Fox wasn’t good enough, we should dump him, etc before the Hali trade. Incredible lack of awareness.
Let’s trade for Domas for OMax….amirite?