[Game] Boston Celtics @ Sacramento Kings, 12/20/2023, 7:00pm PST/10:00pm EST

[iowamcnabb]

What exactly is wrong with what KOC is saying? He is just highlighting the known shortcomings of this team. I'm pretty sure Monte is also aware of it.

the fact that he listed Al Horford as one of their best players for one. He’s probably their 6th or 7th best player. He is also wrong to say the Celtics broke the kings after one loss. He’s a super biased Celtics fan who doesn’t like Sabonis, thought Fox was trash, didn’t rate Keegan as high as he should have and thought the Nuggets were just a good regular season before they spanked all his choices for the title.

 

[coolhandluke]

The Kings did score 41 in the 1st Quarter tonight so it's hard to argue that they didn't come out ready to play from the jump on that end of the floor. Maybe that's part of the problem though? As long as we were trading baskets there was no urgency to fix the defense. It might be time to move Keon Ellis into Huerter's spot in the lineup or something. Keegan is working really hard on defense but on a lot of possessions early it felt like he was the only guy out there who was focused on getting stops.

They didn't come out with the right mentality on defense. The idea of trading baskets with this Celtics team is just stupidity. We wasted the hot start that we got.

 

[SLAB]

It’s like … once again, it is what it is to me. The Warriors loss in the playoffs broke me. I haven’t been able to get into the same fan pattern that I was in even during the dark days of the 17 previous seasons. Then right when it became clear we were running it back … I just checked out, because I don’t have the utmost faith in the current build to be more than early round playoff fodder.

There’s gotta be a big shakeup before the deadline, right? And hopefully an all/in type move. Money and picks for a name Sacramento would never get before this year. A splash.

 

[hrdboild]

the fact that he listed Al Horford as one of their best players for one. He’s probably their 6th or 7th best player. He is also wrong to say the Celtics broke the kings after one loss. He’s a super biased Celtics fan who doesn’t like Sabonis, thought Fox was trash, didn’t rate Keegan as high as he should have and thought the Nuggets were just a good regular season before they spanked all his choices for the title.

All this is true and yet... is there any one among us who thinks this team is a contender without making a major move? We could quibble about what qualifies as a major move but we were all happy just to make the playoffs last year and now the question is different -- can we win a playoff series against an elite opponent?

It feels to me like we just have one hole too many in our rotation. And while the defense has been much improved overall, a lot of that comes on the backs of Fox and Keegan applying aggressive pressure onto ballhandlers which -- when a game is called like it was tonight -- leaves us without our biggest impact players on both ends of the floor for much of the game. Aside from Monk and Ellis, our role-players have all been underperforming this year and we're too easily game-planned for until we can spread the load more on both offense and defense.

 

[iowamcnabb]

And you, hats off to the Celtics. That was probably the best game they played all season? If not it’s up there. White hit every shot he threw at the rim, zinger did the same and blocked/altered everything at the rim. Brown got what he wanted. They got every foul call. PP went off. Only negative was the early turnovers. If they don’t win the chip this year it will be a massive failure. They got gifted Jrue holiday and had enough of a core in place to take on the risk of Porzingas. The guy is a monster if he stays healthy and based off some recent interviews he seems to have matured.

 

[coolhandluke]

the fact that he listed Al Horford as one of their best players for one. He’s probably their 6th or 7th best player. He is also wrong to say the Celtics broke the kings after one loss. He’s a super biased Celtics fan who doesn’t like Sabonis, thought Fox was trash, didn’t rate Keegan as high as he should have and thought the Nuggets were just a good regular season before they spanked all his choices for the title.

Telling a regular season game would break the Kings is absurd. I'll give you that. Al Horford is a critical player for them though.

KOC is a known Kings hater in recent times. There's no argument from me there but he does highlight the shortcomings that are undeniable. He could be the spawn of Hitler but if he's right on some counts, so be it. Just because he hates the Kings doesn't mean I have to discount everything he says.

 

[iowamcnabb]

All this is true and yet... is there any one among us who thinks this team is a contender without making a major move? We could quibble about what qualifies as a major move but we were all happy just to make the playoffs last year and now the question is different -- can we win a playoff series against an elite opponent?

It feels to me like we just have one hole too many in our rotation. And while the defense has been much improved overall, a lot of that comes on the backs of Fox and Keegan applying aggressive pressure onto ballhandlers which -- when a game is called like it was tonight -- leaves us without our biggest impact players on both ends of the floor for much of the game. Aside from Monk and Ellis, our role-players have all been underperforming this year and we're too easily game-planned for until we can spread the load more on both offense and defense.

do we have to contend in year two of this core? We don’t have extra picks or young players to trade so a big trade has to be the right one or we could stall out. Cleveland went all in on Mitchell and now they are probably going to need to trade him. Monte is going to have to decide how many pieces we need and who puts us into contention and when. I don’t really have the answer but I’m comfortable being patient unless the absolute right fit comes along.

 

[The_Jamal]

do we have to contend in year two of this core? We don’t have extra picks or young players to trade so a big trade has to be the right one or we could stall out. Cleveland went all in on Mitchell and now they are probably going to need to trade him. Monte is going to have to decide how many pieces we need and who puts us into contention and when. I don’t really have the answer but I’m comfortable being patient unless the absolute right fit comes along.

Year 2 of breaking a 16 year playoff drought and for some reason the clock is ticking only for us to go win a title. The expectations to have everything solved is just unrealistic

Domas is 27
Fox is 26
Monk is 25
Keegan is 23

There's no rush here, unlike for pretty much the rest of the western conference. We don't need to force an all-in move with a core thats 1. Locked up long-term (Monk aside) and 2. Still so dang young.

 

[Dongoodboy]

I can see why people criticsing Domas, yes he dominated Wiz, triple double, good for him. How about doing that to Pels, Clippers, Celtics? And I don’t want to hear people saying others don’t hit the shot, because he is the all star, he is the one getting the max. He should relieve the team’s burden not the other way round

 

[Kingster]

Pride before the fall. The Kings came out like they were playing Utah or Washington, not the Celtics. They were loosey-goosy, jacking up shots, playing fundamentally unsound defense, and it was wheee, wheee whee, we're having soooo much fun. It was pretty telling when after the first half the Kings were only up a couple of points up after Fox had the best 3-point stint of his career. It was all downhill after that. I stopped watching mid-way in the 3rd quarter.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

There’s gotta be a big shakeup before the deadline, right? And hopefully an all/in type move. Money and picks for a name Sacramento would never get before this year. A splash.

Why has there 'gotta'? The Kings are not in their contendership window yet, and are not a flashy trade away from getting there. Going "all-in" on "a big shakeup" would be a panic move, bailing on organic growth and development in order to get a guy that wouldn't be able to help them beat the Clippers or Nuggets in a seven-game series, anyway.

 

[The_Jamal]

I can see why people criticsing Domas, yes he dominated Wiz, triple double, good for him. How about doing that to Pels, Clippers, Celtics? And I don’t want to hear people saying others don’t hit the shot, because he is the all star, he is the one getting the max. He should relieve the team’s burden not the other way round

Sigh. KOC that you? Lazy, once again.

Standout lines from Domas this season vs good teams:

19-18-7 vs GSW (do we consider them good?) L
12-15-5 vs LAL--W
23-11-8 vs GSW-- W
17-13-13 vs OKC--W
23-10-9 vs CLE--W
29-16-11 vs LAL--W
32-13-6 vs DAL--W
10-10-8 vs NOP--L
23-9-6 vs NOP--L
15-11-5, 2 steals, 3 blocks vs MIN--W
9-8-10 vs GSW---W
11-5-3 vs LAC--L
17-15-7 vs DEN--W
26-13-10 vs NOP--L
15-17-5 vs PHO--W
15-16-9 vs BKN--W
15-10-3 vs LAC--L
18-16-7 vs OKC--W




Do people just like making things up? Like actually do 5 minutes of work to at least attempt to back up the point your making before espousing total nonsense. It's like Fox tweeted: I guess consistency is bad now. Sure, few bad games thrown in there. But he's pretty much a damn mortal lock for 15-10-5, vs quality opponents and that's some a burden to our team.

Nonsense. Also, this leaves out him utterly destroying the very few bad teams this season: WASH, SAS, Utah and POR. But apparently those games don't matter.

 

[coolhandluke]

Year 2 of breaking a 16 year playoff drought and for some reason the clock is ticking only for us to go win a title. The expectations to have everything solved is just unrealistic

Domas is 27
Fox is 26
Monk is 25
Keegan is 23

There's no rush here, unlike for pretty much the rest of the western conference. We don't need to force an all-in move with a core thats 1. Locked up long-term (Monk aside) and 2. Still so dang young.

You don't become a contender in one season. We have good pieces and the chemistry in offense is special. Unfortunately, on defense, we don't have the right pieces. There's only so much you can make up with effort, we need starter level defensive talent. The improvement from Keegan is a great example of organic growth. But, we need more in this stacked NBA. Getting a superstar maybe tough but something along a Wiggins level acquisition would greatly improve this team.

 

[The_Jamal]

You don't become a contender in one season. We have good pieces and the chemistry in offense is special. Unfortunately, on defense, we don't have the right pieces. There's only so much you can make up with effort, we need starter level defensive talent. The improvement from Keegan is a great example of organic growth. But, we need more in this stacked NBA. Getting a superstar maybe tough but something along a Wiggins level acquisition would greatly improve this team.

I don't think anyone thinks this is a finished product. The main pieces are all pretty well-set though and now it's on Monte to put the right supporting cast around them to take this team to a title contention window. But there's still time to not force a deal; we aren't on any sort of clock to push our chips in this trade deadline. That would be a mistake.

 

[Dongoodboy]

Sigh. KOC that you? Lazy, once again.

Standout lines from Domas this season vs good teams:

19-18-7 vs GSW (do we consider them good?) L
12-15-5 vs LAL--W
23-11-8 vs GSW-- W
17-13-13 vs OKC--W
23-10-9 vs CLE--W
29-16-11 vs LAL--W
32-13-6 vs DAL--W
10-10-8 vs NOP--L
23-9-6 vs NOP--L
15-11-5, 2 steals, 3 blocks vs MIN--W
9-8-10 vs GSW---W
11-5-3 vs LAC--L
17-15-7 vs DEN--W
26-13-10 vs NOP--L
15-17-5 vs PHO--W
15-16-9 vs BKN--W
15-10-3 vs LAC--L
18-16-7 vs OKC--W




Do people just like making things up? Like actually do 5 minutes of work to at least attempt to back up the point your making before espousing total nonsense. It's like Fox tweeted: I guess consistency is bad now. Sure, few bad games thrown in there. But he's pretty much a damn mortal lock for 15-10-5, vs quality opponents and that's some a burden to our team.

Nonsense. Also, this leaves out him utterly destroying the very few bad teams this season: WASH, SAS, Utah and POR. But apparently those games don't matter.

I just saw many games under 20 points, that is not good enough for me. I didn't say he should be gone, but I expect more from my all star who will earn 40m next year, especially when the team is in trouble.

 

[The_Jamal]

I just saw many games under 20 points, that is not good enough for me. I didn't say he should be gone, but I expect more from my all star who will earn 40m next year, especially when the team is in trouble.

Fair enough. If 20 points your barometer to measure good players, nothing to discuss further!

 

[206Fan]

All this is true and yet... is there any one among us who thinks this team is a contender without making a major move? We could quibble about what qualifies as a major move but we were all happy just to make the playoffs last year and now the question is different -- can we win a playoff series against an elite opponent?

It feels to me like we just have one hole too many in our rotation. And while the defense has been much improved overall, a lot of that comes on the backs of Fox and Keegan applying aggressive pressure onto ballhandlers which -- when a game is called like it was tonight -- leaves us without our biggest impact players on both ends of the floor for much of the game. Aside from Monk and Ellis, our role-players have all been underperforming this year and we're too easily game-planned for until we can spread the load more on both offense and defense.

I've been beating this drum for a couple months now. This is a deep team, but we don't have any role players who know their role and can consistently perform it on a high level. People should just look at the difference between the Celtics role players tonight and ours. White, Pritchard, and Hauser bring consistent play for the Celtics almost every single night. They play within their roles and make wide open 3s. Some nights they have bigger games, but they never give you less than expected.

On the other hand, our role players have been up and down throughout the entire season with a lack of consistency. It makes things harder for the starters.

Year 2 of breaking a 16 year playoff drought and for some reason the clock is ticking only for us to go win a title. The expectations to have everything solved is just unrealistic

Domas is 27
Fox is 26
Monk is 25
Keegan is 23

There's no rush here, unlike for pretty much the rest of the western conference. We don't need to force an all-in move with a core thats 1. Locked up long-term (Monk aside) and 2. Still so dang young.

I don't think this team is as young as you think. Our players also have a lot of experience in the league despite their younger age. The time isn't clicking, but we're not 2011 Warriors. This isn't a young and upcoming team. Everyone is in their prime except for Keegan. We've got to be careful not to fall in the trap of middling-playoff teams who are destined for first-round exits with no real championship aspirations

 

[TaxMan]

Sadly, I think he's right about the last part. The starting five from last season has been fine but our bench unit feels like they took a step backward...

We're missing those random Terence Davis blow-ups where he could carry us when one of our stars was having an off night. Sasha feels like he has big game potential but he's barely getting any playing time. I also don't agree with Mike Brown' decision to cut Mitchell out of the rotation completely. He's played poorly this season but it seems like a mental thing dating back to his benching in the GS series and that's just bizarre from a player's coach who historically has always valued standout defenders.

I think there is a fair amount of revisionist history regarding last year. We had our fair share of stinkers and games we just barely pulled out at the end. We got demolished by this same Celtics team two times last year. Our perspective has changed. It does not need to be championship or bust this year. That would be completely foolish as this team clearly wasn’t a contender heading into the season. Baby steps. We still have bad defensive games, but we are heading in the right direction as a team. This is a multi-year journey.

 

[hrdboild]

I think there is a fair amount of revisionist history regarding last year. We had our fair share of stinkers and games we just barely pulled out at the end. We got demolished by this same Celtics team two times last year. Our perspective has changed. It does not need to be championship or bust this year. That would be completely foolish as this team clearly wasn’t a contender heading into the season. Baby steps. We still have bad defensive games, but we are heading in the right direction as a team. This is a multi-year journey.

I think there's some nuance being missed here. I'm not the one who is impatient for a move and I don't think we need to take the jump from non-playoff team to contender in two years. My point was in reference to the quote from Kevin O'Connor which is -- from the point of view of NBA media which is almost always focused on this year -- unflattering but also accurate. He's asking if the Kings are a legit contender this year and performances like this suggest that the answer is no. For a team which was the 3 seed last year, has a lot of quality wins this year, and has a guy that we are pushing as an MVP candidate running the show, it's a fair question. That we have graduated into that discussion alone is a compliment. Last year we weren't taken seriously at any point up to and including our 7 game series with GS.

Now aside from that, when looking at our bench, I just don't feel good about them as a unit this year, probably for the reason 206Fan pointed out -- the roles, minutes distributions, and production are all so inconsistent. Does that make us worse overall than last season? No, probably not. The growth from Fox and Murray alone makes up for it and we have the wins to back that up. But in the losses when the wheels have come off and it seems like we can't do anything right often there are one or two matchups you can point to where we just don't have anybody on the roster who can handle that assignment. The backup big minutes are still a problem. Bigger forwards are killing us in the mid-range and post. And overall I see a lot of leads disappearing or deficits growing as soon as Coach has to get into his bench.

It might not even be a talent thing. There was a wave of irrational confidence that carried the day last season. Even when we lost it felt like we had a chance. That's been replaced by Davion's disappearing act, Huerter rushing up way too many back iron clankers and looking frequently lost on offense, McGee's bull in a china shop antics, Lyles and Vezenkov fighting over the same stretch 4 minutes. We should be 9 players deep and on most nights it feels like half of those guys aren't pulling their weight. It's not the end of the world or anything for a patient Kings fan, but it is a concern.

 

[ick300]

Difficult game to watch , especially if you are a Kings fan ...
Boston were just better team today , adn we have to admit ...
Two things for me out of this game :

1. Referee .... This is out of this world for christ sake ... already 26 games during the season not once the decisions were in our favour ... Little to be put on them when you loose by almost 30p , but they took out Sabonis and Fox out of the game with deciosion against them , and this happens already second time in hard defeats for us ...
2. Brown seems (for me) to miss the time for substitutions .... (and here i don't speak about Vezenkov... )
We lost the game in the midle of the seoond and start of 3 , in the first case fox got frustrated and started to play selfish, second domas ... And during that time Murray also froze out, not having a bucket between middle of first till middle of 4th (maybe end of 3d, cant be 100% sure). For a top level coach, named even best , you simply can not afford to loose 70% of your offense power in that easy way ... We have to control your stars better then this , either by motivation words , or benching or something , that is where paychceks for coaches are earnes ... My opininon ...

As far as for our number 7 i really start to believe that there is something i/we are missing in his case ...
If it was only my opinion ok , but from what i see the majority of us think that he deserves much more minutes then he gets , i mean real minutes...
He got 12 today , 7 with the other bench frozen guys as Mitchell and Kessler... Did not check deeply the other 5 but if he got more then 1 or 2 min with Fox Sabonis and Murray on floor will be huge surpirese ... So for me there is something out of those :
1. There is some issue between him and Brown which none says
2. He is not well during trainning process
3. Well he is just not good enough to play more minutees , which i deeply do not believe ...

But ...
Lets be possitive , we have plenty of games to play more , and future for Kings seems rather good then bad ...

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Now aside from that, when looking at our bench, I just don't feel good about them as a unit this year, probably for the reason 206Fan pointed out -- the roles, minutes distributions, and production are all so inconsistent. Does that make us worse overall than last season? No, probably not. The growth from Fox and Murray alone makes up for it and we have the wins to back that up. But in the losses when the wheels have come off and it seems like we can't do anything right often there are one or two matchups you can point to where we just don't have anybody on the roster who can handle that assignment. The backup big minutes are still a problem. Bigger forwards are killing us in the mid-range and post. And overall I see a lot of leads disappearing or deficits growing as soon as Coach has to get into his bench.

There is a good wing/forward defender on the bench, in Edwards. Brown doesn't seem to be willing to allow him any consistent run, in order to get a rhythm going. It's odd to complain about not having any defensive minded wing/forwards, when they have one sitting there waiting for a chance. Then to bring in Anderson, who isn't near the defender that Edwards is.

Yes, you probably have to give up scoring potential on offense, in order to give some defense first players a chance. Just use them in spots, on a semi consistent basis

 

[sactowndog]

the fact that he listed Al Horford as one of their best players for one. He’s probably their 6th or 7th best player. He is also wrong to say the Celtics broke the kings after one loss. He’s a super biased Celtics fan who doesn’t like Sabonis, thought Fox was trash, didn’t rate Keegan as high as he should have and thought the Nuggets were just a good regular season before they spanked all his choices for the title.

I don’t think anyone on the Celtics would say that point….

People can get on KOC all they want but it won’t change he grew up in Boston and learned starting by hanging around Ainge. Look who Ainge drafts. Long switchable wings and centers who can protect the rim and guards who stretch the floor.

Monte has largely built our team in opposition to that model. We have 1.5 long switchable wings and our center is ranked among the worst in the league among starting centers in blocks. Fox until this year was a below average shooter.

Now could it work? sure. Will it be a paradigm shift around what wins in the play-offs. Yep. Will the Kings have to make the second round for people to believe it? You betcha.

what should concern people is for the few minutes I could actually see the floor and when the group in front of me wasn’t getting up for the 100th time…. Porzingas stood in the paint and dared Domas to shoot. The fact Domas didn’t is a concern.

 

[Joshoua]

Dallas had a pretty suitable team for Luka with Brunson, Porzingis, DFS, and Dinwiddie and they just blew it up because it’s hard to tell when you have the right guys around Luka.

They’ve been ****ing up since Dirk got them a ring stop it everyone knew Brunson should’ve be resigned and them fools tried low balling him

 

[dude12]

Geez, why do some of these people show up here? Sky is falling in their world I guess.

Not to ***** about the refs as that was not the only issue in the game but I’m watching Celtics players with 2 hands on Kings players when they are driving and cutting. Yet the Kings players can’t do the same. It’s right there for all to see. I just don’t get it. Several foul calls on Keegan and Fox that just weren’t fouls. How do you beat a good team when the ability to play physical only is allowed for the opposition? Yes, our defense needed to be better when closing out the 3 point shooters but the refs were effective tonight

 

[Sac.Kings]

They are the better and more disciplined team. They stuck to their game plan while we abandoned ours, at least our defensive game plan. They are further along in their process of fighting for a championship and promptly showed us the difference between pretenders and the real deal.

I think it also clearly outlined that we still need an additional piece to our puzzle. Our roster is in need of some attention. We have several players, good players, that we aren’t utilizing or are underperforming. If we can swing for an upgrade (not Lavine, thanks) we should do so. As currently constructed, and even with an additional season or two under our belt, I still don’t think we would be championship material.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I don’t think anyone on the Celtics would say that point….
.

Tatum
Brown
Jrue
White
KP
Al

 

[jiimbob]

I taped the game but don’t think i’ll bother watching it. Kind of a miserable result.
I had forgotten Neemias was now a Celtic, looks like their actually using him and he’s contributing, so good for him.

 

[MizzouKing]

Why has there 'gotta'? The Kings are not in their contendership window yet, and are not a flashy trade away from getting there. Going "all-in" on "a big shakeup" would be a panic move, bailing on organic growth and development in order to get a guy that wouldn't be able to help them beat the Clippers or Nuggets in a seven-game series, anyway.

AGREE. The narrative among much of the sports media is that the Kings are 100% committed to contending for the championship RIGHT NOW, but I don't think that's where Monte's head is. We still have a ways to go, friends. Anything is possible, but we have just barely gotten back to being a playoff team and the road to a championship is usually a longer one than that. And that's okay.

 

[hrdboild]

Geez, why do some of these people show up here? Sky is falling in their world I guess.

Not to ***** about the refs as that was not the only issue in the game but I’m watching Celtics players with 2 hands on Kings players when they are driving and cutting. Yet the Kings players can’t do the same. It’s right there for all to see. I just don’t get it. Several foul calls on Keegan and Fox that just weren’t fouls. How do you beat a good team when the ability to play physical only is allowed for the opposition? Yes, our defense needed to be better when closing out the 3 point shooters but the refs were effective tonight

It's not even a secret. The NBA officiating being biased in favor of more marketable stars and franchises, marquee matchups, and longer playoff series is a fact at this point. The Celtics in first pace is a storyline working against us. The size of Boston's market compared to ours is working against us. Jaylen Brown has the biggest contract in the league. We can't just be the better team on any given night, we have to be the better team by a mile because none of that ish is working in our favor.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I think if we were 16-10 but only a couple games were blowouts we would feel great about our start considering the West is much better this year, we have a better record than last year at this point and we have had around the same amount of injuries this year as we did all of last year. It’s just the total beat downs that is super annoying. Having said that when the opposing team has 4 starters shoot 16-23 from 3 AND they have the best defensive backcourt in the game AND they have a 7’3 center who has quietly been a defensive stud the last couple years it’s really no surprise the game went the way it did. The White, KP and Jrue trades were home runs for them. Well done. We have to brush this one off and win at least one of the next 2 and I’ll be happy with this stretch. Lots of work to do but our offense is trending in the right direction and hopefully we can stay in the middle of the pack defensively