LeBron to Europe?
- Thread starter Big Cuz 15
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FakeInjury
Bench
I was watching Around the Horn today, and they were discussing Lebron James possibly leaving the NBA for Europe...and "if" that happened...David Stern would IMMEDIATELY create a European division in the NBA. Could the kings locate to a major market overseas? They were the most popular team in europe when we had vlade and peja...and the kings still have a fair number of intn'l fans. I feel this would be a good move...If and only if...the kings were still playing 24 games in Sacramento. This may be unpopular, but i like the idea of sharing an NBA team with another city
kennadog
Dog On It!
I don't.
LJ isn't going to Europe anyway. His endorsement money here is huge and he'd lose that.
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FakeInjury
Bench
on the topic of endorsements. he wouldn't. Think about how stupid (business wise)it would be to take money away from that man. I think his endorsements would stay in tact. no offense
NoBonus
Starter
Lebron is not going overseas... he gets $25 million from endorsements and will get the a minimum of the max salary in two years of around $18 million (that is the current max salary for players who have played 7 to 9 years + two years of estimated average percentage increases, rough math, but you get the idea)... no way a euro team coughs up $42 million a year, even if they did, I am guessing there will be more endorsements in the U.S. by that time (especially if TEAM USA brings home gold) and the salary will be much higher.
NoBonus
Starter
His U.S. endorsements would evaporate, there is no two ways around that. Imagine this commercial:
"Hey kids, buy the new Nike Lebron and you too can sell out! Also, good luck watching Lebron play as he is as far away from you on TV and in real life as possible!"
I find myself inclined to agree with Kornheiser: James "entertaining" an offer to play for Greece probably has more to do with his intent to bolt Cleveland when his contract is up than any legitimate "interest" in playing overseas.
I'm inclined to agree that American endorsements would largely dry up - but that doesn't mean he couldn't make plenty of overseas endorsements as well. But the majority of Americans would immediately brand him a sell out and hate him, say he only bolted because he couldn't live up to the hype, etc. But I really don't see him leaving for Europe unless waves and waves of other starting caliber players left first. He'll play where the top talent is.
Oh, and NO NO NO NO! to sharing the Kings with another city.
Oh, and NO NO NO NO! to sharing the Kings with another city.
SacKings7
Starter
Add Kobe to the list. A bit more understandable since he grew up in Italy though
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53928/20080808/kobe_would_take_super_deal_in_italy/
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53928/20080808/kobe_would_take_super_deal_in_italy/
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The only interesting thing about all this prattle, is that even more than in the NBA -- where the billionaires buy teams as ego toys but are still trying to make a working business model out of it -- in Europe (with no cap and essentially no financial rules for their usual mess of crisscrossing nationalities and leagues) there is always the chance for a bored playboy oil billionarie or some such slapping down a $50mil offer just to say he was the guy who bought LeBron, or Kobe, or whoever. Would make absolutley no sense from a business perspective. Just an ego thing like buying a piece of art or that 1 of only 12 remaining supercar. Megarich types do that sometimes out of sheer boredom.
bozzwell
Starter
Absolutely correct. Romanovich (Oil billioner and owner of Chelsea FC) paid Amy Winehouse 1 million pounds (2 million dollars) to perform at the opening of his wife's gallery in Moscow.
If LBJ was to bolt to Europe in 2010 there would be a backlash in USA. If he waited until he's won a title and is bit older he could go to Europe double his salary (at least) and double his endorsments (much larger market, stronger currency). Kids in Europe are already buying LeBron and Kobe jerseys and shoes. If he was on TV all the time and with all the hype that would follow (just think that he's play at 8pm in 90% of the market and not 4am) he'd double his endorsments. He just can't go now or in 2010. Too early.
OTOH, Kobe should definetly go to Italy in 2-3 years. If for no other reason so that we don't have to put up with him anymore.
Ryan
I like turtles
I love FakeInjury.
DocHolliday
Starter
Why would the endorsers care about "taking money away from him". Is he going to go Tony Soprano on them if he doesn't get his money?
Those endorsers pay him money to promote their products in the country that he plays in primarily. Although Lebron is a worldwide sports celebrity, it wouldn't surprise me if right now he was on a commercial in another country. He makes a lot of that money for promoting companies in the US though.
He WOULD lose the money he currently gets for promoting in the US currently, he would gain other endorsers in other countries, but the US endorsements WOULD fall off greatly. People wouldn't really be able to see him play that often, so him promoting here becomes pointless.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Nit-picking, but it's Roman Abromavich.
I can't see the likes of LeBron or Kobe ever leaving for Europe, but I wouldn't be upset if they did. I suppose it's different for Americans, but as a European I'd have no problem seeing Euro teams beginning to compete somewhat in the FA market.
Ryan
I like turtles
So true.
Let's also not forget that he got $90 million from Nike BEFORE he ever walked on to an NBA court.
But maybe FakeInjury is right. I hear Nutella is looking for a new spoksman
bozzwell
Starter
FakeInjury
Bench
Now...all the members of team usa are commenting on the topic. Dwayne Wade already accepted the offer
kennadog
Dog On It!
Not unless they have to follow the same salary rules.
BritishColumbia
Bench
Yes, Dime Dropper is right, he is not Romanovich. However, he is not Roman Abromavich either
. His name is Roman Abramovich. He is a very interesting guy. He owns several sport teams in Russia and FC Chelsea London. He could have been a huge threat to NBA but fortunately he is not interested in basketball.
nbrans
All-Star
I disagree wtih most people in this thread. Someone in Europe is going to pony up the money, and a superstar in the US is going to take it. Probably not all of them, but someone is going to. Some European owner will make it worth their while.
The NBA player salary financial model is broken, and the billionaire US owners whine like they're operating charity basketball teams but meanwhile rake in the cash while holding cities hostage. And they're going to have to pony up more money to the players (who are the ones really earning the money). The collective bargaining agreement isn't designed to retain parity, it's designed to constrain salary so the owners can make still more money. They're going to have to figure something out if they want to stay competitive with Europe, where they do things the old fashioned way.
The NBA player salary financial model is broken, and the billionaire US owners whine like they're operating charity basketball teams but meanwhile rake in the cash while holding cities hostage. And they're going to have to pony up more money to the players (who are the ones really earning the money). The collective bargaining agreement isn't designed to retain parity, it's designed to constrain salary so the owners can make still more money. They're going to have to figure something out if they want to stay competitive with Europe, where they do things the old fashioned way.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's fairly ridiculous given how many owners lose money on the deal -- the only thing that goes up for them is their equity because the value of the franchises increases. That too will slow down if players are bought by random rich guys just for the hell of it.
The day the players break the current sytem, and start raking in more than the 60% or whatever of revenues they already get, basketball is dead in Sacramento. San Antonio. Indiana. Salt Lake City... At least competitive basketball. the financial system will break. The restraints thrown on precisely to keep the small market teams competitive and in the loop in a competitive league will break down, and you will have baseball. Except worse, since baseball has failed to inspire a major following outside of Japan and the third world.
And the old fashioned way as you put it is simply greed and chaos. The two often go hand in hand. And in a greed and chaos scenario, the little guys who have been artificially carried along to create balance and competition, will get left behind. The Knicks aren't going to let some adventuring mobster from Russia steal away their marquee players for long before they say screw this system, and screw Sacramento, we represent the richest city in the world, and we can match those numbers. And then the little guys are dead. Because they can't.
The day the players break the current sytem, and start raking in more than the 60% or whatever of revenues they already get, basketball is dead in Sacramento. San Antonio. Indiana. Salt Lake City... At least competitive basketball. the financial system will break. The restraints thrown on precisely to keep the small market teams competitive and in the loop in a competitive league will break down, and you will have baseball. Except worse, since baseball has failed to inspire a major following outside of Japan and the third world.
And the old fashioned way as you put it is simply greed and chaos. The two often go hand in hand. And in a greed and chaos scenario, the little guys who have been artificially carried along to create balance and competition, will get left behind. The Knicks aren't going to let some adventuring mobster from Russia steal away their marquee players for long before they say screw this system, and screw Sacramento, we represent the richest city in the world, and we can match those numbers. And then the little guys are dead. Because they can't.
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nbrans
All-Star
I would agree with this if I accepted the premise -- I simply don't believe there is a single owner in basketball losing money, even apart from the huge gain in equity. And why in the heck would the equity and franchise valuations go up double digit percentages a year if they're losing money? I don't care if they're in Sacramento, Milwaukee, New Orleans, anywhere. For every Mark Cuban, who is an owner just because he wants to be, there are five ruthless, cold-hearted businessmen who don't give a flying crap about the ego-boost.
Owners are quick to cry poverty whenever they are looking for a public handout, and most times they get it. Most have blackmailed their local communities for every last cent they can get. I'm not crying for any NBA owner.
I agree that you have to balance a chaotic system with one that achieves some sort of parity, and the modern CBA has done a pretty good job of that. But the owners can stand to share some more with the people who are earning the money.
Fine then, try to look at it in these terms: what happens to cities like Sacramento when the going rate on a player like Kevin Martin becomes twenty million dollars? Because, regardless of whether the Maloofs are losing money or not, they ain't paying that.
The Maloof family, Herb Kohl, Peter Holt, Herb Simon... they may not be filing Chapter Eleven, but at the point where the the combined salaries of average NBA teams begin to approach $100M numbers, they're going to say screw it and get out. And chances are better than good that they won't be replaced by other owners.
The Maloof family, Herb Kohl, Peter Holt, Herb Simon... they may not be filing Chapter Eleven, but at the point where the the combined salaries of average NBA teams begin to approach $100M numbers, they're going to say screw it and get out. And chances are better than good that they won't be replaced by other owners.
NoBonus
Starter
Good point, competition is always a two edged sword... the NBA will have to compete for fans and players, but the costs increase for quality players.
BritishColumbia
Bench
Let's avoid this passionate rhetoric on our forum. It's neither funny nor wittily.
I do not understand why so many people think that European teams will destroy the system and small markets. How many really good American NBA players moved to Euroleague? Only one and he is not a star. Yes, some European guy have moved to Europe this year. Again, some MLE guys. Do you really believe that the Greeks will offer 50M? A-ha. CSKA also denied the information about LeBron last week. CSKA's GM has said this week that they are NOT gonna sign big stars from NBA; they want to develop local players and they already have 2 Americans.
NBA was pretty good without Europeans 10 years ago. Still, Euro stars will play in NBA and may be some American and Euro MLE guys will play there. That is it. Europe is a soccer territory. Do not overestimate the popularity of b-ball there.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
a dozen years ago you could have made the statement: How many really good Euro players have ended up in the NBA? Only a handful. And if you had assumed it would always remain that way you would have been a fool.
Systems are not static. Neither are preferences. You either anticipate the next trend, the next challenge, or you pay for it in the long run. Trust me, I work in a risk anticipation business. If you sit around and assume that nothing will ever change, ignore warning signals, then you are headed straight for a **** storm. Which is actually always very good for those of us paid to clean it up for you. But very foolish of you.
As for futbol -- Europe's soccer fetish has always been a bit unnatural in its exclusivity. Nothing in the foreseeable future will ever displace it as the #1 sport, but its a massive market full of hundreds of millions of people just as varied as those in the U.S., and there is more than enough room for a number of other major sports over there. Basketball's has a huge toehold today compared to what it had twenty years ago. Twenty years from now that figures to be bigger still. Time are a changin'. The challenge is how to stay ahead of that curve, whether it be through changing the nature of NBA contracts, creating a Euro division to absorb and co-opt the biggest Euro threats, or whatever.
JerN820
Bench
I agree. Could you imagine LJ playing in Europe? He's is from America and I am sure he wants to remain an American icon. People over here wont really care about looking up to see how he is doing over there after a while. And like you mentioned about the endorsement money. The most marketable players like LJ, Tiger, MJ, etc, make way more money in endorsements than they could ever dream to make by playing sports. Also, on the subject of sharing a team, that would be horrible. What are you going to call them? The Sacramento/Amsterdam/Vienna Kings? LOL
BritishColumbia
Bench
I think you should really learn more about Europe and its markets. First of all, soccer is not just a sport in Europe; it is like 100 times more than that. Each country has like 3-4 leagues, each city has a team, big ones like London or Moscow have like 10-12 teams, plus domestic cups, plus Championship League, plus UEFA Cup, plus National competitions. It is a multi-billion industry. It is really hard to find some space for other sports.
Let's look at the biggest markets in Europe.
England ... there is no place for big basketball there... they have also cricket and rugby.
Russia .. again, soccer is way too popular there. Canadian ice hockey is the second popular sport. They are investing a lot of money in new arenas and they have a new super-expensive project - KHL (new hockey league, almost NHL big). Plus, many Russian rich cities are located far from Europe in Ural and Siberia where also Russian hockey (bendy) is extremely popular. Yes, they've signed some MLE and under MLE guys this year. Do you think they will break the system? Next year, they will sign 1-2 guys. The only big player they want is Kirilenko.
Spain and Italy are big European b-ball countries but how many good players they have signed this year?!?! These are soccer countries again and now they have a different goal - they want to improve their soccer clubs. EPL is the best now in Europe and they want to change this situation badly.
Greece .. if Greece is the biggest threat for NBA then there is no threat. Greece is not Germany or Great Britain, or Russia. They have 2-3 big clubs with very rich owners but come on, what can they do? Sign Kobe? May be in 100 years.
Yes, there is nothing that stays the same for long but please, tell me where and how European teams will break NBA and its system in the future .. let's say 10-15 years. And please, base your prognosis on real numbers, real markets, real economies and so on, not just words like the sky is falling and we must be ready because it is getting hot.
Aenadin
Starter
no way lebron leaves the US for the money he is already raking it with so much endorsements... its about championship pride... if he wants to surpass kobe or who ever he will stay in the NBA
maybe if it were spreewell maybe
if spreewell plays in the euro maybe then he can finally feed his family with his salary
and he should have Boris diaw show him where he picked up those croissants
maybe if it were spreewell maybe
if spreewell plays in the euro maybe then he can finally feed his family with his salary
and he should have Boris diaw show him where he picked up those croissants
Entity
Hall of Famer
Now Kobe is sayin the same ****. I think this is they way these guys are trying to raise their salary over here in the US. its pretty crappy way to be when you are already a multimillionaire. I think when ppl like those 2 start saying things like this it can hurt the NBA. Screw them let em walk overpaid childish ****ers.
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