Latest rumor about Bonzi
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Of course not. NOBODY trades for a 32 year old. I mean, they are just normally taken out to pasture and shot. 
Ridiculous ridculous ridiculous.
We traded Bobby Jackson at 32. And he WAS injury prone. Traded him for a damn good OG actually. We traded Doug at 34. He was breaking down too. For another good OG. We managed to trade Mitch at 31-32? for some guy named Webber. Yep, sure is impossible to trade those 30-somethign guards. NEVER happens.
Ridiculous ridculous ridiculous.
We traded Bobby Jackson at 32. And he WAS injury prone. Traded him for a damn good OG actually. We traded Doug at 34. He was breaking down too. For another good OG. We managed to trade Mitch at 31-32? for some guy named Webber. Yep, sure is impossible to trade those 30-somethign guards. NEVER happens.
Yep and I celebrated at each trade while most people complained. What is ridiculous is people saying, 'let's play him for three years and then we can just trade him.' I'm sure Petrie has been trying to trade Corliss for two years, but he hasn't moved. He was the 6th man of the year a few years back. Now he is practically unmovable, on his last year of his contract. There isn't much logic to 'we can just trade him then.' You can't predict that someone will want him four years down the road.
I remember you brought this up before about Artest 2-3 months back or so.
Hmmm, why would Ron be gone? Why is it a default he jumps to LA or NY? The Knicks are in full re-building mode and won't be a contender for many years. Ron wants to be on a contending/playoff team. Despite saying he wants to play for the Knicks someday, he won't be going to the Knicks when he's still in his prime, and he has said he wants to be done playing basketball by 34. So it'd be in his last season or maybe two, if at all. The Lakers won't be a contender or good team unless they get better players outside of Odom/Kobe/Radmanovic, and Kwame/Bynum/Farmar still need to develop. Phil Jackson could well be gone. The Clippers? Yes, they have a good situation and future.
It's not a default, that's premature and one-dimenonsal thinking.
How about thinking about the other side of the situation, and us offering an extension or signing him to a new contract? Ron's also said in a serious manner that he'd take a pay-cut for moves to be made, and would like to get an extension with us. Who knows how the situation will be in Sac in 2008/2009, but I'd predict it'll be good at least and better than the Lakers or Knicks.
Hmmm, why would Ron be gone? Why is it a default he jumps to LA or NY? The Knicks are in full re-building mode and won't be a contender for many years. Ron wants to be on a contending/playoff team. Despite saying he wants to play for the Knicks someday, he won't be going to the Knicks when he's still in his prime, and he has said he wants to be done playing basketball by 34. So it'd be in his last season or maybe two, if at all. The Lakers won't be a contender or good team unless they get better players outside of Odom/Kobe/Radmanovic, and Kwame/Bynum/Farmar still need to develop. Phil Jackson could well be gone. The Clippers? Yes, they have a good situation and future.
It's not a default, that's premature and one-dimenonsal thinking.
How about thinking about the other side of the situation, and us offering an extension or signing him to a new contract? Ron's also said in a serious manner that he'd take a pay-cut for moves to be made, and would like to get an extension with us. Who knows how the situation will be in Sac in 2008/2009, but I'd predict it'll be good at least and better than the Lakers or Knicks.
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To preface, I'd just like to say that I hope Ron will be here after his deal is up, and that I think he will be too. I was one of the more vocal proponents of getting him, both pre-brawl when Peja first asked to be traded 2 years ago, and post-brawl as well.
That said, with Ron, you really never know. At the beginnign of last season, it was a lovefest in Indy with Ron and Larry appearing together on the cover of SI. Ended up well, right?
My point is, you never know what you're going to get with Ron. I really want to trust the guy. I really do. I love the guy to death, but when he's your franchise player, you're taking a risk. And the risk is not only that he could bolt for his hometown of NY or to promote his rap career in LA, but he could go nuts again given the wrong perfect storm. He also said he wanted to go backup LeBron. What's next? The guy could say/do anything!
Again, I don't think that will happen, but when your franchise player has an unstable past as Ron, you have to have insurance. And I think having Bonzi around will be at least a start at some insurance in case the unthinkable happens. I'm not saying the unthinkable will happen, but you have to admit the chances are higher for Ron than most stars out there. Thus, you must plan accordingly, and have a contingency plan in place--just in case.
That said, with Ron, you really never know. At the beginnign of last season, it was a lovefest in Indy with Ron and Larry appearing together on the cover of SI. Ended up well, right?
My point is, you never know what you're going to get with Ron. I really want to trust the guy. I really do. I love the guy to death, but when he's your franchise player, you're taking a risk. And the risk is not only that he could bolt for his hometown of NY or to promote his rap career in LA, but he could go nuts again given the wrong perfect storm. He also said he wanted to go backup LeBron. What's next? The guy could say/do anything!
Again, I don't think that will happen, but when your franchise player has an unstable past as Ron, you have to have insurance. And I think having Bonzi around will be at least a start at some insurance in case the unthinkable happens. I'm not saying the unthinkable will happen, but you have to admit the chances are higher for Ron than most stars out there. Thus, you must plan accordingly, and have a contingency plan in place--just in case.
Indiana was a different situation because of his history there, he realized what he had gotten into in November, and it just wasn't going to work in Indy for several reasons. Both sides said similar things. It was best for both sides that he move on to a new situation, and it's been right so far. I think it continues.
Comparing that to his general feelings isn't relevant.
When he talked about LeBron, that was when it was a frenzy early on and was just talking about places. As things weren't as narrowed down until mid-January.
Based on the last year and a half and his time in Sac up to now, I've been convinced (several interviews, watching him in games, reading numerous and various articles) that he's changed and is a different guy now, to at least a solid degree.
With Bonzi, sure, I want him re-signed as well.
Comparing that to his general feelings isn't relevant.
When he talked about LeBron, that was when it was a frenzy early on and was just talking about places. As things weren't as narrowed down until mid-January.
Based on the last year and a half and his time in Sac up to now, I've been convinced (several interviews, watching him in games, reading numerous and various articles) that he's changed and is a different guy now, to at least a solid degree.
With Bonzi, sure, I want him re-signed as well.
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Reading these threads, some times I feel as old as Methuselah.
Bonzi's age doesn't have much to do with the lack of a better offer, assuming he's had no better offers. It appears he may have become a FA in the wrong year. Its the market demand and what teams' spending limitations are that are most likely to determine what he gets. With apologies to Bonzi:
If I'm selling a pickup truck for $4,000, but the buyers want a sedan for that money, I'm out of luck. Or if the only buyers who want a pickup truck can't afford to spend more than $3,500, I'm out of luck again. In both situations it doesn't matter how much I think my truck is worth, I can't sell it for $4,000.
My choices are to hope the sedan folks will settle for a truck, because they can't find a sedan for their $4,000 or lower my price to what the truck buyers can afford to spend right now. Or, if I need a sedan, I can find a sedan owner who wants a truck and agrees to an equal-value swap.
And there is absolutely no good reason for the Kings to bid against themselves. They might decide to go a little better than the initial offer to make him happy, there is some value to that.
Bonzi's age doesn't have much to do with the lack of a better offer, assuming he's had no better offers. It appears he may have become a FA in the wrong year. Its the market demand and what teams' spending limitations are that are most likely to determine what he gets. With apologies to Bonzi:
If I'm selling a pickup truck for $4,000, but the buyers want a sedan for that money, I'm out of luck. Or if the only buyers who want a pickup truck can't afford to spend more than $3,500, I'm out of luck again. In both situations it doesn't matter how much I think my truck is worth, I can't sell it for $4,000.
My choices are to hope the sedan folks will settle for a truck, because they can't find a sedan for their $4,000 or lower my price to what the truck buyers can afford to spend right now. Or, if I need a sedan, I can find a sedan owner who wants a truck and agrees to an equal-value swap.
And there is absolutely no good reason for the Kings to bid against themselves. They might decide to go a little better than the initial offer to make him happy, there is some value to that.
There are other risks besides age that could hinder Bonzi's trade value. He's already burned bridges in two cities, and if he acts up again in Sacramento that's three for three. There's a big difference between trading for a 29 year old malcontent with an expiring deal and a 33 year old malcontent making $10 million for the next few years.
I think people are overrating Bonzi on this board. He's a 13/5 guy who had a good playoff series that the Kings didn't even come close to winning. I appreciate his toughness and nose for the ball, but he can't shoot from outside, he's an average perimeter defender and he turns the ball over a lot. Look around at other message boards -- other teams don't really want him. The place where he has the most value is on this board.
I think people are overrating Bonzi on this board. He's a 13/5 guy who had a good playoff series that the Kings didn't even come close to winning. I appreciate his toughness and nose for the ball, but he can't shoot from outside, he's an average perimeter defender and he turns the ball over a lot. Look around at other message boards -- other teams don't really want him. The place where he has the most value is on this board.
Oh I have too, and I've talked with several sportswriters who have interviewed him, and he can contradict himself several times during the course of one interview. I don't doubt he's trying his best and has good intentions, but there's the chance he'll say/do the wrong thing in the near future.
And with the league more or less out to get him (see the suspension in the playoffs). All it takes is one flagrant foul that looks worse than the really is--and what would be a 1 game suspension could be a 10 gamer based on his past alon.
All I'm saying is that while you may be convinced that Ron Artest will retire as a Sacramento King in 2013 after seven spotless years on and off the court--and I hope he does--there's a decent enough chance that won't happen, and the team should be ready just in case.
And with the league more or less out to get him (see the suspension in the playoffs). All it takes is one flagrant foul that looks worse than the really is--and what would be a 1 game suspension could be a 10 gamer based on his past alon.
All I'm saying is that while you may be convinced that Ron Artest will retire as a Sacramento King in 2013 after seven spotless years on and off the court--and I hope he does--there's a decent enough chance that won't happen, and the team should be ready just in case.
On KHTK tonight just before 5pm Grant stated very clearly that he believes that Bonzi will NOT be back on the Kings. He said his opinion is 98% he won't be signed but said that is only his opinion. Not being signed is key.
If the Kings don't sign him and let him sign elsewhere, then his $8M salary hit disappears off the salary cap. True, they don't get anything in return. But............ our man Petrie is likely up to something with someone who doesn't want Bonzi. It gets interestinger and interestinger.
If the Kings don't sign him and let him sign elsewhere, then his $8M salary hit disappears off the salary cap. True, they don't get anything in return. But............ our man Petrie is likely up to something with someone who doesn't want Bonzi. It gets interestinger and interestinger.
I would not over read into the line "not signed". Who knows what Grant meant by it or even what Grant knows. I would still STRONGLY suspect that assuming the rumor of Bonzi's likely depature is correct it MOST LIKELY due to a sign and trade. Numerous reasons why have been outlined by rational minds on this forum. The shrot list includes:
1. If Bonzi wants more money that is really the only way he can get it.
2. If the Kings were content with jsut letting him walk they would probably have shown more interest insome of the FA's who are signed already
3. When palyers walk there typically is little discussion. An offer or waiver is mad then they say no and that is that.
4. The innitial rumor as posted was prety clear that a S&T was in the works hence the silence and drama.
1. If Bonzi wants more money that is really the only way he can get it.
2. If the Kings were content with jsut letting him walk they would probably have shown more interest insome of the FA's who are signed already
3. When palyers walk there typically is little discussion. An offer or waiver is mad then they say no and that is that.
4. The innitial rumor as posted was prety clear that a S&T was in the works hence the silence and drama.
Note: he's a 13 and 5 guy in 26.5min. Do you know how prolific that is? That's 20 and 8 as a full time starter. And yes, its not the same blah blah -- but it HAS been the same when Bonzi has been given those minutes. This isn't some second stringer whipping up on the weaklings, this is a guy who can face down anything short of a Kobe/Wade class superstar on any given night. And I use the term facedown on purpose, because Bonzi is tough, aggressive, and not afraid of much of anybody. No Peja please-don't-intimidate-me stuff going on there. You actually have to beat Bonzi.
The reason that interest amongst fans is low is the same reason I had my doubts when he came in -- bad apple rep. Then you get a first hand look at him, on and off the court, and I'd say its WE who have the better read, not the people on bucksfans.com or wherever thinking "oh didn't he cause trouble a few years back". Got very little to do with Bonzi's game, which remains an object of interest to fans who know how he plays. Post up guard who grabs tons of boards and racks up steals? If anything, we are the fans most used to the shooting mentality that would undervalue that skillset.
The reason that interest amongst fans is low is the same reason I had my doubts when he came in -- bad apple rep. Then you get a first hand look at him, on and off the court, and I'd say its WE who have the better read, not the people on bucksfans.com or wherever thinking "oh didn't he cause trouble a few years back". Got very little to do with Bonzi's game, which remains an object of interest to fans who know how he plays. Post up guard who grabs tons of boards and racks up steals? If anything, we are the fans most used to the shooting mentality that would undervalue that skillset.
If he does not stay here, I really hope that it is a S&T. If not, which team will be giving hime more money. If another team is going to outright sign him, I would think that we would have heard some rumors from them. It does not suprise me that Petrie's lips have been sealed, but most are not as tight lipped as he.
TDOS gets longer and longer!!!!
TDOS gets longer and longer!!!!
Agreed, Brick.
Bonzi has only been given starter minutes in his career last season, and in 02-03/01-02 probably. Everywhere else though, he's been on deep teams (the Blazers) or coaches that used the platoon/large rotation (Grizzlies).
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/bonzi_wells/index.html?nav=page
Bonzi has only been given starter minutes in his career last season, and in 02-03/01-02 probably. Everywhere else though, he's been on deep teams (the Blazers) or coaches that used the platoon/large rotation (Grizzlies).
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/bonzi_wells/index.html?nav=page
Since there are most likely very few teams interested in Bonzi right now, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bonzi goes to a place that he wants to for the mid level. There are probably no S&T options that interest Petrie and if there aren't I can't see him doing something just so we get something in return.
If there aren't, then the thing for Petrie to do is to move his number slightly and bring back Bonzi himself. It would be a significant blow to lose Bonzi for nothing in an offseason when we did absolutely nothing else during free agency and there are virtually no names left of note left on the market (unless you count Keith Van Horn, and if we sign him Geoff needs to be dragged out into the streets by an angry mob and beaten with whiffle bats for his softness). It would also continue our talent bleed and be the second year in a row we wasted a valuable asset at OG.
I agree that he's aggressive, tough, doesn't back down. There's a lot to like about that attitude, especially given the recent Kings history of players who shy away from contact, pressure, anything tough. That's valuable.
But.. I don't agree that more minutes for Bonzi means that he's suddenly a 20 point guy. He got 32 minutes last year -- a career high average for him, and he averaged 13.8 points. You average that out to 40 minutes and he gives you 16.8 points. In the past he's certainly been an effective scorer, even an almost-20 points in 40 minutes guy in theory, but until he gets his jump shot back he's not going to be the type of guy who gives you 20 points in 40 minutes, certainly not as his athleticism declines.
But.. I don't agree that more minutes for Bonzi means that he's suddenly a 20 point guy. He got 32 minutes last year -- a career high average for him, and he averaged 13.8 points. You average that out to 40 minutes and he gives you 16.8 points. In the past he's certainly been an effective scorer, even an almost-20 points in 40 minutes guy in theory, but until he gets his jump shot back he's not going to be the type of guy who gives you 20 points in 40 minutes, certainly not as his athleticism declines.
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