Kreidler: Geoff Petrie says ...
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AleksandarN
Starter
Bricklayer said:
That logic is wrong for a couple of reasons Cat was not resigned we were going after SAR for we really do not have money to offer him and we were going after Bonzi as well. So if you take that into consideration then he did hell of good to get talent this ofseason. We got more talent this ofseason then gave up in the same ofseason.
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nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Your megalomania knows no bounds. You know more about this team than Petrie? This is a message board, Brick. First off, in the offseason you thought this team would be a winner just like the rest of us, so all of this "better read" stuff is pure crap. You have absolutely no proof that Petrie thought the team would be better than you thought the team would be. Plus, Petrie is privvy to 1,000,000% more information than any of us. I think it's safe to say that Jerry Freakin' Reynolds has a vastly better read on this team than all of us combined. Let's not forget ourselves.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Bricklayer said:
Not that I don't think you have a very valid point, but time goes on. That "heart and soul" was about an average of 35 years old. Our "heart and soul" go old. Doug and Vlade are done. Bobby is 33 and CWebb is 32. Not that I think his deals have been perfect but I can't blame the guy for trying to get younger.
Where was this ineffable patience last year in regards to CWebb? Had we practiced patience this time last year, we would still get 20-10 w/ leadership from our PF. Petrie drafts in the same way that Jerry Krause used to; he's addicted to the sexy pick. Petrie takes the guy who, if he pans out, is going to make him look freaking brilliant. Whether it's the small college stat stuffer, the international ingenue, or the big college underachiever, it's never the obvious pick. The Garcia pick was slightly obvious, and if we get the #1, pencil in Adam Morrison for Petrie. Other than that, pure obscurity prior to Stern announcing their name.
I don't think he has a plan. Or if he did, it consisted of resigning Peja, but I doubt the Maloofs allow that now. By the bye, Petrie is not the greatest thing to ever happen to the Kings. The best thing to happen (and potentially worst) is the Maloofs buying them.
I don't think he has a plan. Or if he did, it consisted of resigning Peja, but I doubt the Maloofs allow that now. By the bye, Petrie is not the greatest thing to ever happen to the Kings. The best thing to happen (and potentially worst) is the Maloofs buying them.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nbrans said:
Why thank you. I work hard on my megalomania.
Yes, Geoff put together this team thinking they would be terrible.
Give me a break.But hey, feel free not to forget YOURself if you truly feel that you are such a peon that you couldn't possibly bring yourself to question your "betters". Which I guess at that rate would include me then too, no?
My record on this matter has been all over this board for the last year. There is NO question that I am on the most unfortunate of hot streaks. Could hardly hide it if I wanted to with the simple search function.
Petrie, outside of pooling the wool over the eyes of people like yourself who's Kings goggles apparently date back to our days wearing black, has a record too over that period that he cannot hide from.
natedizzle
G-League
I think Petrie's reputation is not built on anything he did. Kings became good because the Wizards were stupid enough to trade Chris Webber for Mitch Ritchmond and Otis Thorpe.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:Why thank you. I work hard on my megalomania.
Yes, Geoff put together this team thinking they would be terrible.
But hey, feel free not to forget YOURself if you truly feel that you are such a peon that you couldn't possibly bring yourself to question your "betters". Which I guess at that rate would include me then too, no?
My record on this matter has been all over this board for the last year. There is NO question that I am on the most unfortunate of hot streaks. Could hardly hide it if I wanted to with the simple search function.
Petrie, outside of pooling the wool over the eyes of people like yourself who's Kings goggles apparently date back to our days wearing black, has a record too over that period that he cannot hide from.
Your "record" consists of sitting back and criticizing every possible move without offering any plausible alternative. And even with that tendency you STILL thought this team would be good.
And even with that said, you still have no basis for knowing what Petrie thought this team would be capable of. Yeah, Petrie probably thought this team would be decent. SO DID YOU. And yet you have crowned yourself savant of the Kings and claim a better expertise than a guy who just happened to be a stellar NBA player, built a contending franchise from scratch and basically could have had the Executive of the Year award named after him. Your qualifications.... less clear
I'm not saying that the front office can't be questioned, but you've really outdone yourself if you think you know more than Petrie. I'm all for examining faults, but I'm not about to pronounce myself Kings God and claim I know more than the actual experts.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I wonder how patient Petrie is after this game. I would have bet anything that the Kings would have won this one out of shear embarassment over the Pacers game. Trade Skinner for for another no defense perimeter shooter!
nbrans
All-Star
Let me respond to Bricklayer's "forceful" comments. No one knew going into this season that the Kings weren't going to be good. No one. Sure, people saw weaknesses, fatal flaws that would prevent a championship, etc., but no one, not even the worst pessimist really knew what was going to happen this season. It's pretty ridiculous for someone to claim that they would have known better than Petrie what would happen this season.
Petrie deserves the benefit of the doubt. Is he infallable? No way. But when someone has a track record as good as his, you tend to give him some time to work things out. Particularly because we don't have enough information to judge him accurately. We don't know what potential trades he's presented with, we don't know the actual trade value of the Kings players, we don't know the internal politics, the behind the scenes stuff. For all intents and purposes he's not a public figure. It's all conjecture on our part, and that's not enough to judge him by. Even in the short term it's not at all clear if this struggling time is part of a broader plan for success or part of a long slide. It's way too early to judge.
What we can judge accurately is success over the long term. And this season, which inevitably was going to be a rebuilding time, is not enough of a measure to declare that Petrie suddenly is incompetent after years of success. The Kings were aging. They were getting injured. Their value as trade assets were decreasing. When Webber was injured there was no way in hell they were ever going to get a good trade out of moving him. The decision was made to move on, to rebuild. Rebuilding projects never take one year. Sure, this year everyone thought we could skirt the normal rebuilding process, turns out we can't. But with Petrie's track record it's not at all clear that it's time to dump him and hire...... who, exactly?
Petrie deserves the benefit of the doubt. Is he infallable? No way. But when someone has a track record as good as his, you tend to give him some time to work things out. Particularly because we don't have enough information to judge him accurately. We don't know what potential trades he's presented with, we don't know the actual trade value of the Kings players, we don't know the internal politics, the behind the scenes stuff. For all intents and purposes he's not a public figure. It's all conjecture on our part, and that's not enough to judge him by. Even in the short term it's not at all clear if this struggling time is part of a broader plan for success or part of a long slide. It's way too early to judge.
What we can judge accurately is success over the long term. And this season, which inevitably was going to be a rebuilding time, is not enough of a measure to declare that Petrie suddenly is incompetent after years of success. The Kings were aging. They were getting injured. Their value as trade assets were decreasing. When Webber was injured there was no way in hell they were ever going to get a good trade out of moving him. The decision was made to move on, to rebuild. Rebuilding projects never take one year. Sure, this year everyone thought we could skirt the normal rebuilding process, turns out we can't. But with Petrie's track record it's not at all clear that it's time to dump him and hire...... who, exactly?
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nbrans said:
Any plausible alternative? I have offered nothing but. Not plausible to you, but then again your own acumen has consisted of such wonderful little gems as Reef was going to come in and grab us 10 boards a game. And if you would like to go work on your reading comprehension you will note that I said I have had a BETTER read on the team than Geoff Petrie. Not a perfect one. And the proof, as they say, is in the pudding.
Please don't even bore me with Jerry Reynolds. Being employed by a basketball team does not automatically make you some sort of expert. Its a game. Not a science. Not something you go to school for. Listening to him prattle can be oh so aggravating as I try to count the silly errors. He is employed for his charm, not as an elite basketball mind.
Geoff's playing career of course is beyond irrelevant. Your memory is amazingly selective, but allow me to refresh it with one name: Bill Russel. Geoff's ENTIRE record of note consists of his record as a GM. Something that I at least have focused 100% on.
bozzwell
Starter
nbrans said:
Not to defend Brick (nor does he need me to defend him), but Brick has repeatedly suggested that Petrie's ego/emotions might be getting in the way of Petrie's best judgemens as of late. That is not the same as saying "I know better then Petrie", that is more like saying "I think I can see clearly...".
Count me in the same group with Brick. I don't think that I am better GM then Petrie (and he sure would woop me in Fantasy Basketball with his latest ideas, there he is almost as good as Cuban right now), but I do suspect that Petrie's patience is at least to some extent a byproduct of his ego or emotional attachement to this "Core". It seems to me that Petrie believes in this team despite their record and showing as of late and that there is still time for them to click. As you correctly reminded us all, even Brick thought that this would be a "good" 45-50 win team that will turn into mediocre team only in play offs.
Petrie is running out of time to be patient and that should be obvious. Despite what many on this board think almost all our pieces have good-to-very good trade value (Pedja's one dimension will fit most teams in the race, SAR 's deal is very cheap for his output, Mike could be great again alongside dominant PF, Bonzi was having a career year before injury etc.) and there should be no excuses for Petrie not to be dealing and wheeling right now. Sure, keep it close to your chest until it is all done, don't talk to anyone, let alone reporters. But GP don't tell me that "patience is virtue" in our position 'cause I am fresh out of it and ready to lash out and get myself banned from KF.com in the best case scenario.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Patience can be a virtue depending on what the plan is. Its a virtue when you're waiting for a high draft pick, or developing young players.
Not when waiting for a trade as your position of strength weakens with every passing moment.
If we didn't have a group of players all in the prime of their career I wouldn't have too much of a problem, but we do. The window with this squad isn't all that big to begin with. so....
Not when waiting for a trade as your position of strength weakens with every passing moment.
If we didn't have a group of players all in the prime of their career I wouldn't have too much of a problem, but we do. The window with this squad isn't all that big to begin with. so....
kennadog
Dog On It!
I would never expect GP to say much more than he did in this article. Its just not like him. Truthfully, I'm more disappointed with the Maloofs right now. At least GP is at every (most?) home game. The Maloofs seem almost totally absent from Sacramento. I'd like to see them make a statement to the fans that isn't just PR crap about great fans.
Nobody has to reveal their master plans to me, but I'd at least like to have it acknowledged that this is NOT going the right direction and they are trying to come up with solutions. I don't need details, just admit this is not good and that it matters to you, Joe and Gavin!
Nobody has to reveal their master plans to me, but I'd at least like to have it acknowledged that this is NOT going the right direction and they are trying to come up with solutions. I don't need details, just admit this is not good and that it matters to you, Joe and Gavin!
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
I don't recall ever claiming Shareef was going to get 10 boards a game, but hey who knows, maybe I did, I'm not an expert and don't claim to be - I'm just some Joe Schmoe on a message board, not someone who fancies himself to be smarter than the actual general manager.
I also don't recall you offering a specific plausible free agent acquisition or trade in the offseason beyond dream scenarios for Kevin Garnett, that is when you weren't lamenting the Webber trade. If that's prescience, well, maybe we have a different definition
T
thesanityannex
Guest
Thay don't need to admit this team is not good, the record speaks for itself. If this was my team, and I had huge $$$$$ invested, I wouldn't come to all the games either, I would be chilling in my Palms hotel.kennadog said:
T
thesanityannex
Guest
woohooo!!!!
thread reopened!!!!
I was enjoying the debate going on and was pissed to see another thread closed. Thanks for reopening.
thread reopened!!!!
I was enjoying the debate going on and was pissed to see another thread closed. Thanks for reopening.
I've done a little editing and reopened this thread. It would be greatly appreciated if it didn't go back into the morass. Just remember to make your comments about the topic and not the poster.
The one thing that separates this board from the others is that we do not allow personal attacks, confrontations, etc. and that's the way our members like it. Thanks to all concerned for understanding.
The one thing that separates this board from the others is that we do not allow personal attacks, confrontations, etc. and that's the way our members like it. Thanks to all concerned for understanding.
T
thesanityannex
Guest
Bricklayer, Nbrans................please return to the ring with your internet sparring gloves on...............and remember, no shots below the belt.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
thesanityannex said:
Well, I just have to believe that it comes down to more than that. The Maloofs appear to be very passionate about the sport of basketball. I have to believe the way the Kings are playing effects them 10 times as much as it effects us. They have a lot riding on the success of their franchise that may very well be connected to its very existence.
T
thesanityannex
Guest
I'm sure it does affect them 10 times more, which is why I understand them missing games. With all that $$$$ invested, they want them to win more than any of us. It would be tough for me, if in that position, to watch every game knowing I'm losing fans and money.SacTownKid said:
You know, as hard as it might be for some to believe, the Maloofs actually have other interests besides the Kings. It's quite possible they had family obligations, business concerns, etc. In addition, they might actually have been staying out of the way because they're such high-visibility owners. If you run a company and trust your employees to take care of it, the last thing you want to do is undermine that relationship. Things aren't real calm right now and perhaps the Maloofs are intentionally staying out of touch or at least out of reach of the media.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Brick wins the thread.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
kennadog said:But Kings (and fans) lose.
Ahhh...
good times.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Ding Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner!!Bricklayer said:
foretaz
Bench
making the webber trade wasnt patient....it looked eerily like a move made out of desperation....desperate to get rid of webbers deal...
getting bonzi wasnt a move made out of patience....the much maligned player was obviously a huge gamble...not a move a patient organization makes...
the same is pretty much true for getting SAR....statistically solid player except for the one statistic that ultimately counts....winning...
these moves dont strike me as anything remotely resembling patient....much more desperate....
so i think it was VF that said hes simply trying to pass his MO off as being patient....when in reality, its really anything but...
the only exception might be adelmans continued presence, which there appear to be extenuating circumstances in that particular case...
getting bonzi wasnt a move made out of patience....the much maligned player was obviously a huge gamble...not a move a patient organization makes...
the same is pretty much true for getting SAR....statistically solid player except for the one statistic that ultimately counts....winning...
these moves dont strike me as anything remotely resembling patient....much more desperate....
so i think it was VF that said hes simply trying to pass his MO off as being patient....when in reality, its really anything but...
the only exception might be adelmans continued presence, which there appear to be extenuating circumstances in that particular case...
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