Knicks-Bulls (Antonio Davis)

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#91
Rockmeister said:
As a female, if my husband knew something was wrong or was concerned, I sure hope he would see what the situation is about regardless if it violates his rules of employment. VF21 - no disrespect on your opinion, but I just wanted to say not all females are like you. I would hope my husband would think family first and all else second.
No disrespect to you or your opinion, but not all females are like you either. I would hope my husband would give me credit for having a brain and an ability to deal with situations AND not look at me as a poor helpless female liable to faint from the horrors of being called names.

It's the 21st century. Women do not need to be protected from the evils of everyday life. Some of you are acting as though she was cornered in a dark alley with hordes of armed thugs surrounding her and threatening her life. Nothing could be further from the truth. Security was there. No punches were thrown. No one was harmed. If Mrs. Davis is soooo fragile that she has to be protected from mere verbal exchanges, perhaps she should shell out the bucks for a booth OR watch the game from home.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#92
I don't agree with Ailene Voisin about Webber or Adelman, but I certainly agree with her comments about this:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/14094548p-14924487c.html

Ailene Voisin: Man's help not always woman's best friend
By Ailene Voisin -- Bee Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Friday, January 20, 2006


First of all, this isn't Ron Artest. Soft-spoken and engaging, Antonio Davis long has enjoyed a reputation as one of the NBA's classiest, most thoughtful players. He is also among the game's hardest workers - the bootstraps, blue-collar, lunch-bucket kind of guy - and the type of leader whose soothing, powerfully subtle presence enables him to control a situation without raising his voice. Certainly without leaping over the press table and calmly proceeding into the stands to defend his wife, who, it could turn out, might not even be the person who was seeking assistance.

So the first inclination is to send the Knicks' Antonio to bed without supper.

Suspend him for five games. Fine him a few million. Remind him about that mortal sin - thou shalt not enter the stands under any circumstances - and then let him resume whatever is left of his NBA career, which, to be honest, isn't very much. At 37, term limits are shrinking his tenure as president of the players' union and a valuable reserve who is best known for his muscular contributions with the Indiana Pacers.

Unfortunately, though, there are problems with this kinder, gentler approach. The circumstances of Wednesday's player-in-the-stands incident at United Center are murkier than the convergence point of the American and Sacramento rivers, with Kendra Davis and fan Michael Axelrod continuing to swap verbal punches. He said she attacked him. She - via her husband's account - said he accosted her. He threatens to sue her (Kendra) for battery and her husband (Antonio) for slander. So, surely she is going to countersue, right?

And while this is all being sorted out, while David Stern continues studying the videotapes and police reports, a nagging, underlying subtext - the one that really precipitated this whole mess - escapes much-deserved scrutiny.

In other words, where is it written that women require rescuing, anyway?

Work with me here for a minute. This is 2006.

The distressed damsel perished generations ago.

The characterization of women as weak, sobbing females who dissolve into tears at the first whiff of danger or confrontation, becoming convulsed into spasms of helplessness and hopelessness, should have been rejected by now with all the ferocity of one of Yolanda Griffith's blocked shots. Physical intimidation shouldn't be the only response to conflict resolution. Remember how Billie Jean King outwitted Bobby Riggs? What about Demi Moore? Does she look like someone who needs a man to lift her military gear? Who couldn't maintain her composure when confronting heated, potentially hostile situations? What about all the women currently serving in Iraq?

Please, repeat after me: Women are not wimps. Women are not victims. Women are eminently capable of protecting themselves and their children and, in situations similar to what allegedly transpired Wednesday, doing so without flexing a muscle.

Besides, Antonio Davis isn't the only adult who wears pants in his family. Regarded as one of the league's most outspoken and involved wives, Kendra Davis is a powerful influence in her own right and surely experienced enough in the ways of the common fan to react with common sense.

Tired of being slobbered on by some inebriated fan? The language becoming a little too blue for the kids?

Summon security. Contact a team official. Leave the building.

Turn the other cheek, then turn the offender in to the police.


No, regardless of who was the aggressor late Wednesday - Kendra Davis or Michael Axelrod - Antonio Davis should have remained in the huddle. The Oakland native can maintain that he was behaving honorably, that anyone else would have reacted accordingly, and he can argue a good case; he elicits a modicum of empathy from almost everyone. But along with reinforcing the stereotype that players' spouses are desperately wealthy housewives in need of physical protection even in a most controlled environment, his foray into the seats could have triggered a disastrous result in provoking another Detroit-Indiana debacle.

The Pacers still are a mess, Ron Artest a Pacer in paycheck only. The repercussions for Davis and his family, and the family of Mr. What's-His-Name Axelrod, figure to stretch into the next decade if the legal process follows form. (Gotta keep those attorneys employed.)

As for the women in his life? The women in this world?

The men need to get a grip.

We can defend ourselves.

About the writer: Reach Ailene Voisin at (916) 321-1208 or avoisin@sacbee.com.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#93
VF21 said:
In other words, where is it written that women require rescuing, anyway?

Work with me here for a minute. This is 2006.

The distressed damsel perished generations ago.

What about Demi Moore? Does she look like someone who needs a man to lift her military gear? Who couldn't maintain her composure when confronting heated, potentially hostile situations?

Please, repeat after me: Women are not wimps. Women are not victims. Women are eminently capable of protecting themselves and their children and, in situations similar to what allegedly transpired Wednesday, doing so without flexing a muscle.

Tired of being slobbered on by some inebriated fan? The language becoming a little too blue for the kids?

Summon security. Contact a team official. Leave the building.

Turn the other cheek, then turn the offender in to the police.

As for the women in his life? The women in this world?

The men need to get a grip.

We can defend ourselves.
IMHO, I feel this is a very small group of women who feel this way. A large amount of this group has probably never been married, or has no desire to.

Who cares about Demi Moore and the role she played in a MOVIE? Does that make her tough now? Demi Moore does lose her composure, just watch the episode of "Punked". She sure didn't do well when put in a heated, hostile situation. I can't believe A. Poison is using G.I. Jane as an example, talk about a stretch to prove a point.

If women were so able to protect themselves, we wouldn't be hearing about all the rapes and batteries that take place everyday.

By the way, my girlfriend found this article quite funny. Especially the "Men need to get a grip, we can defend ourselves"
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#94
Gotta give Voission props for this one. I hate to see a guy like Daniels made an example of BUT if the NBA lays down the law and nails a "Nice Guy" in what is seemingly a defensable situation like this, then perineal butt heads like Artest, and Spreewell and the Sheed of old, KNOW exactly what will hapen if they go up in the stands for ANY reason. Sad but true fact of life is that making an example of a "Bad Boy" is never as impressive and setting an example with a "Good Boy" the problem is that week willed leaders often lack the guts to do so.
 
#95
thesanityannex said:
IMHO, I feel this is a very small group of women who feel this way. A large amount of this group has probably never been married, or has no desire to.

...

If women were so able to protect themselves, we wouldn't be hearing about all the rapes and batteries that take place everyday.

By the way, my girlfriend found this article quite funny. Especially the "Men need to get a grip, we can defend ourselves"
Wow.

Just, wow.
 
#96
GoGoGadget said:
Wow.

Just, wow.
My sentiments exactly. What year, and what country, is this again??

It sounds more and more like Mrs. Davis was the instigator in this mess. Again, why do family members sit amongst fans if they can't handle their husbands getting yelled at?? I don't blame that fan at all for taking legal action against the Davises, I would too.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#97
thesanityannex said:
IMHO, I feel this is a very small group of women who feel this way. A large amount of this group has probably never been married, or has no desire to.

Who cares about Demi Moore and the role she played in a MOVIE? Does that make her tough now? Demi Moore does lose her composure, just watch the episode of "Punked". She sure didn't do well when put in a heated, hostile situation. I can't believe A. Poison is using G.I. Jane as an example, talk about a stretch to prove a point.

If women were so able to protect themselves, we wouldn't be hearing about all the rapes and batteries that take place everyday.

By the way, my girlfriend found this article quite funny. Especially the "Men need to get a grip, we can defend ourselves"
First, your implications are insulting. You need to come into the 21st century...or go back to the 17th.

This part is just ignorant:

If women were so able to protect themselves, we wouldn't be hearing about all the rapes and batteries that take place everyday.
There is no logic to that statement whatsoever. Hello? I don't think there are a myriad of rapes and batteries taking place in the middle of sports arenas during games in front of security guards. AND, to show just how ridiculous your comment is, I'll counter with one:

If men weren't such pigs, women wouldn't have to worry about defending themselves.

Is that true? Well, women are attacked by men but the statement itself is as false as yours.

I'm glad your girlfriend finds it funny. How kind of you to let her read it...
 
#98
Ok I think we are all missing the point that Slim has made over and over again. Whether or not Kendra Davis can protect herself is IRRELEVANT! Whether or not she in fact started the problem is IRRELEVANT! Whether she is the spawn of Satan is IRRELEVANT! What is relevant is that Antonio Davis looked up and saw his wife in some sort of danger. He reacted and went to go see what the problem was.

Lets just for a minute suppose that my wife was playing basketball for a living and she saw me and our children in the stands in some sort of danger. What would she do? I would hope she would see what is going on. It has nothing to do with chivalry, is has everything to do with making sure your family is safe.

Can she protect herself? From all accounts probably yes. In a perfect world should security have taken care of the problem? Probably yes. Did Antonio do what ever other person in that situation would have done? Hell yes.

And VF, generally I support you fully on everything you do on this board, but the "I'm glad your girlfriend finds it funny. How kind of you to let her read it" comment is antagonistic. Other members of this board have been suspended or banned for the same sort of comments. Seems like we should all be bound by the same rules.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#99
bdouble013 - You're right about my comment. I apologize. Although it was smack back at his first comments, it was totally inappropriate.

Mea culpa.
 
VF21 said:
No disrespect to you or your opinion, but not all females are like you either. I would hope my husband would give me credit for having a brain and an ability to deal with situations AND not look at me as a poor helpless female liable to faint from the horrors of being called names.

It's the 21st century. Women do not need to be protected from the evils of everyday life. Some of you are acting as though she was cornered in a dark alley with hordes of armed thugs surrounding her and threatening her life. Nothing could be further from the truth. Security was there. No punches were thrown. No one was harmed. If Mrs. Davis is soooo fragile that she has to be protected from mere verbal exchanges, perhaps she should shell out the bucks for a booth OR watch the game from home.
Believe me, I am far cry from being a helpless woman. However, I do think you are missing my point. I think bdouble013 said it best
bdouble013 said:
Ok I think we are all missing the point that Slim has made over and over again. Whether or not Kendra Davis can protect herself is IRRELEVANT! Whether or not she in fact started the problem is IRRELEVANT! Whether she is the spawn of Satan is IRRELEVANT! What is relevant is that Antonio Davis looked up and saw his wife in some sort of danger. He reacted and went to go see what the problem was.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
You're looking at the whole thing from an entirely different perspective, Rock, which is fine. I stand by my earlier comments that it is no longer necessary for the male of the species to automatically view any conflict involving his wife as one that he needs to step in and take over.

We will have to agree that we just disagree on this issue. Davis had a choice to make and he made the one bdouble013 is summarizing. What would have happened if Davis hadn't had stepped up? Probably exactly the same thing, except he wouldn't be currently suspended.

Davis looked up and saw a ruckus and perceived it as being a situation where his wife was in danger. It turns out he was wrong. Perhaps if he'd taken just a moment or two he would have realized that and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
 
What's wrong with checking on someone you love when you think they might be in danger and rushing to their aid? I would do the same thing for a friend, or my sister, or my girlfriend. It's not like Davis rushed in there knocking 70 year old men to the floor and swinging on everything in sight, Artest style. He was worried, but composed, and was making sure someone he cared about was OK. Hey, whether it's a woman or not doesn't really matter... if my buddy was a close to 7 foot PF in the NBA, I wouldn't mind him rushing up behind me to get my back in any kind of altercation, it would probably end a lot of fights before they even started. I think most of you agree with what I'm saying, some people were just responding to the way some others put it into words.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
...having someone's back...

...end a lot of fights...

Whatever.

This was a verbal exchange. You guys are making it sound like much, much more...

Peace.
 
VF21 said:
...having someone's back...

...end a lot of fights...

Whatever.

This was a verbal exchange. You guys are making it sound like much, much more...

Peace.
Eh.. guess it's just one of those fundemental differences people have sometimes. No biggie :).
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
VF21 said:
Davis looked up and saw a ruckus and perceived it as being a situation where his wife was in danger. It turns out he was wrong. Perhaps if he'd taken just a moment or two he would have realized that and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
I still don't see how you make this claim that nothing would have happened had he not gone up there. We will never know because of the fact he went up there.
 
Inquiring after a heated conversation is one thing. . .using your access to media to libel a man is another, and then refusing to apologize when proven wrong is yet another thing entirely. I say -15 brownie points for Davis.
 
Venom said:
Inquiring after a heated conversation is one thing. . .using your access to media to libel a man is another, and then refusing to apologize when proven wrong is yet another thing entirely. I say -15 brownie points for Davis.
You're assuming that only Kendra Davis had a hissy fit and that Axelrod had nothing to appologize for himself.

Apparently it has all been resolved by a joint statement from Davises and Axelrod saying that it was all missunderstanding in the heat of the moment.