CHA - LAC - SAC

[twslam07]

----------------------------------------

CHA Gets: Davion Mitchell
CHA Gives: PJ Washington
Why for CHA? Considering the Hornets currently have the 5th worst record, they start to look towards rebuilding around Ball. Washington is due for a new contract this off-season while Mitchell gives them 2.5 more years of rookie scale control. Mitchell would also be a great complement to Ball in the starting lineup as he can be an elite POA defender while acting as a secondary ball handler/playmaker on offense. The Hornets would look to sell off Rozier and Hayward next to further lean into the rebuild.

PG - Rozier / Mitchell / Smith
SG - Ball / Bouknight
SF - Hayward / Oubre / Martin
PF - McDaniels / Thor / Jones
C - Plumlee / Richards / Williams

----------------------------------------

LAC Gets: Richaun Holmes, 2023 IND 2nd, & 2023 SAC 2nd
LAC Gives: Robert Covington
Why for LAC? Clippers get a solid backup C who can give them 18-20 minutes a night for someone who hasn’t been able to consistently crack their rotation. Holmes gives them a C who is able to switch and defend the perimeter while also being a solid PnR threat on offense. They also get two 2nds as some extra compensation.

PG - Jackson / Wall / Preston
SG - George / Kennard / Mann / Boston
SF - Leonard / Powell / Coffey
PF - Morris / Batum
C - Zubac / Holmes

----------------------------------------

SAC Gets: Robert Covington & PJ Washington
SAC Gives: Richaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell, 2023 IND 2nd, & 2023 SAC 2nd
Why for SAC? With Fox at PG and Sabonis at C, it’s hard to find Mitchell & Holmes the amount of minutes they deserve. Instead they swap them for two guys that complement both Fox and Sabonis very well. Both Washington and Covington have great length, can defend, can help protect the rim, and can shoot. Washington is also a decent passer and is young enough to grow with our core long term. Picking up Washington before the deadline not only allows us to match any offer he gets but it allows us to retain Barnes by going over the cap.

PG - Fox / Monk / Dellavedova
SG - Huerter / Davis / Moneke
SF - Barnes / Murray / Okpala
PF - Washington / Covington / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Metu / Len

----------------------------------------

 

[Turgenev]

Kings Fans. Where Davion is packaged for PJ Washington at least once per lunar cycle.

 

[twslam07]

The interesting thing about this trade is that you could probably lean on Washington/Covington to give you some small ball C minutes with their length and ability to contest at the rim, and on the offensive end, it gives someone like Fox that much more space to operate.

 

[Turgenev]

Kings Fans. Where Davion is packaged for PJ Washington at least once per lunar cycle.

Sorry I appreciate the effort and commitment.

 

[twslam07]

Kings Fans. Where Davion is packaged for PJ Washington at least once per lunar cycle.

Can you post the links that had us trading Mitchell for Washington? I haven’t seen those.

 

[SacTownKid]

To be honest, I don't think the Kings package gets that done right now. All assets in this trade are down value wise for various reasons but Davion's role is obviously not conducive to building value and Holmes is probably close to immovable at this point.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Don’t think a trade with Charlotte will happen but I’d like to take on Kai Jones as a developmental piece. He has looked nice defending on the perimeter and has some potential.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

I don't understand the rush to trade Richaun Holmes. Just in case the Kings somehow manage to reach the finals and face off against the Bucks, the Kings will likely need big-body players to put on Giannis, even if it is for short stretches during the games. Holmes and Metu are the kind of guys who can do just that at C and PF. Similarly, I'd keep Davion Mitchell even if only to defend Steph Curry types.

The Kings should really look at trading for one of Patrick Williams or Saddiq Bey. Then round out the squad with a floor-spacing big, Juancho Hernangomez.

Fox........................ Mitchell
Huerter.................. Monk
P Will or Bey.......... Barnes
Murray................... Juancho + Metu
Sabonis................. Holmes

This gives the Kings a ton of options. The only weakness or questions be who will defend high-scoring Shooting Guards, like the Devin Booker types.

 

[serbiangoat]

1st + Davion for Bol Bol or Poku, they are the best fits next to Sabonis

 

[twslam07]

I don't understand the rush to trade Richaun Holmes. Just in case the Kings somehow manage to reach the finals and face off against the Bucks, the Kings will likely need big-body players to put on Giannis, even if it is for short stretches during the games. Holmes and Metu are the kind of guys who can do just that at C and PF. Similarly, I'd keep Davion Mitchell even if only to defend Steph Curry types.

The Kings should really look at trading for one of Patrick Williams or Saddiq Bey. Then round out the squad with a floor-spacing big, Juancho Hernangomez.

Fox........................ Mitchell
Huerter.................. Monk
P Will or Bey.......... Barnes
Murray................... Juancho + Metu
Sabonis................. Holmes

This gives the Kings a ton of options. The only weakness or questions be who will defend high-scoring Shooting Guards, like the Devin Booker types.

Well for starters, Holmes has not been good when on the floor this year and racking up DNP-CDs. On top of that, he makes $27 mil the next 3 years (counting this year) when we have a two time all star who plays the same position. He is not an efficient use of our cap at all.

I’m sorry but saying we should hold onto Holmes in the off chance we face Giannis in the finals is quite a point to make for a team that hasn’t made the finals in the past 71 years let alone the playoffs for the last 16 years. I’d also argue that the team assembled via my trade above is better equipped to defend Giannis as you’d have multiple big, long wings to throw at him (Washington, Covington, Murray, Barnes).

I don’t dislike Davion. I think he’ll be a fine player but the emphasis should be on maximizing the talent and fit with Fox and Sabonis. Mitchell’s size and shooting make him a suboptimal fit next to Fox. I’d rather have someone like Washington who complements both Fox and Sabonis very well.

Pat Williams has always had the potential to be a good fit but he’s never been the volume 3pt shooter and rim protector that I ideally want next to Sabonis. Now he’s having a very hot start shooting the ball this season but his volume is still not all that high (his blocks are up too). It’ll be interesting to see who his play continues as he racks up more games this season.

I like Bey but he’s not really the defender nor rim protector I’d want. This team desperately needs a long forward who can defend, help protect the rim, and space the floor.

 

[twslam07]

1st + Davion for Bol Bol or Poku, they are the best fits next to Sabonis

I’d be worried giving up all of that capital for someone with Bol Bol’s injury history.

I could be convinced to make that trade for Poku (although his .588 FT% makes me question his 3PT% this year) but how do you intend to convince the Thunder who have SGA, Mann, Dort, and J. Williams at guard already?

 

[ESP47]

I don't see Charlotte doing it. The trade would make the Kings better but I think mostly because of Covington, if he still has tread left on the tires. I think PJ is one of the most overrated players by this forum. Solid player but just barely above average. He's kind of the Saddiq Bey of 4s.

 

[macadocious]

Death, taxes and twslam07 trying to trade with the Hornets. Is this a Mitch Kupchack burner account?

 

[serbiangoat]

I’d be worried giving up all of that capital for someone with Bol Bol’s injury history.

I could be convinced to make that trade for Poku (although his .588 FT% makes me question his 3PT% this year) but how do you intend to convince the Thunder who have SGA, Mann, Dort, and J. Williams at guard already?

Mann is awful and I don't think Giddy and SGA can coexist (Hali/Fox), they will need a back up PG and also the better Poku plays imo the less likely the Thunder will want to sign him to a big deal (they have Chet). J Dub is also a SG/SF, I think Mitchell with his defense and hopefully ability to space the floor could play next to SGA.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Death, taxes and twslam07 trying to trade with the Hornets. Is this a Mitch Kupchack burner account?

You know that twslam07 loves to make trade proposals, and that twslam07 loves PJ Washington. So it's only natural.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't understand the rush to trade Richaun Holmes. Just in case the Kings somehow manage to reach the finals and face off against the Bucks, the Kings will likely need big-body players to put on Giannis, even if it is for short stretches during the games. Holmes and Metu are the kind of guys who can do just that at C and PF. Similarly, I'd keep Davion Mitchell even if only to defend Steph Curry types.

The Kings should really look at trading for one of Patrick Williams or Saddiq Bey. Then round out the squad with a floor-spacing big, Juancho Hernangomez.

Fox........................ Mitchell
Huerter.................. Monk
P Will or Bey.......... Barnes
Murray................... Juancho + Metu
Sabonis................. Holmes

This gives the Kings a ton of options. The only weakness or questions be who will defend high-scoring Shooting Guards, like the Devin Booker types.

I'm not super big on trading Davion, but you have to give something to get something. Who do you propose trading for Bey or Williams if those two are off the table?

Also as has been pointed out, we've got three more years of Holmes making an above MLE salary while racking up DNPs. Based on what we've seen when he is on the floor, those DNPs are unfortunately deserved as he is just not fitting into the system here. He's a good guy and it does nobody any good to save him for a potential finals matchup when we haven't won 40 games since 2006.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm not super big on trading Davion, but you have to give something to get something. Who do you propose trading for Bey or Williams if those two are off the table?

Also as has been pointed out, we've got three more years of Holmes making an above MLE salary while racking up DNPs. Based on what we've seen when he is on the floor, those DNPs are unfortunately deserved as he is just not fitting into the system here. He's a good guy and it does nobody any good to save him for a potential finals matchup when we haven't won 40 games since 2006.

I was thinking about Bey after that report came out that he's not untouchable. Gee, someone shooting like 40 percent on his career is on the table? lol. Still wouldn't mind seeing it. If the Kings could get him and maybe dump Holmes and had to use Davion to do it then it should be considered. Davion as a backup PG will come to a head at some point. All it will take is one team to pry him away and you don't overpay backup PG's or C's in today's game. That Holmes money coming off the cap this summer could be a game changer for the Kings moving forward.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I was thinking about Bey after that report came out that he's not untouchable. Gee, someone shooting like 40 percent on his career is on the table? lol. Still wouldn't mind seeing it. If the Kings could get him and maybe dump Holmes and had to use Davion to do it then it should be considered. Davion as a backup PG will come to a head at some point. All it will take is one team to pry him away and you don't overpay backup PG's or C's in today's game. That Holmes money coming off the cap this summer could be a game changer for the Kings moving forward.

Probably wouldn't do it but Holmes and Mitchell + Len for Bogdanovic and Bey appears to work, would help them tank and possibly give them a trade asset in Holmes who they could flip the way they did with Grant but presumably at the deadline for a pick and a shorter term deal?

Side benefit here is that it opens up a roster spot for us as well.



eta: DM for Bey straight up also appears to work. Though I think we'd want to get another PG as insurance if we did move on.

 

[midtowner]

Davion should not be traded unless it is part of a deal to get a star or a player that provides rim protection and stretches the floor. Dude is still figuring things out. But he brings it every night and feeds the culture.

I like Bey - but I love Davion. And Bey isn’t currently better than Barnes.

 

[twslam07]

If we want to keep it simple, the goal should be to trade Holmes for cap space at the deadline. Even if it takes a 2nd or two to move him.

If we do that, our payroll would be at $95 mil next season with the following players under contract:

1. Fox
2. Sabonis
3. Huerter
4. Monk
5. Murray
6. Mitchell
7. Okpala
8. Moneke

The cap hold on a mid 1st round pick would be around $3.5 mil. That would bring our cap to $98.5 mil. But we only have 9 roster spots accounted for (need 12) so we need to add 3 minimum rookie salary cap holds ($982K * 3 = $2.946 mil) to count against our cap bringing it to $101.446 mil. The salary cap is currently projected to be $134 mil leaving us with ~$32.5 mil in cap space.

I don’t think that would be enough cap space to resign Barnes and sign one of PJ Washington, Grant Williams, or Cameron Johnson. I’m thinking Barnes will get an average of $16-20 mil per year this off-season. However, if we can resign Barnes to a deal where the 1st year is $15 mil, that leaves us with ~$18.5 mil in cap space (one of the minimum rookie salary cap holds is removed). Maybe that’s enough to convince CHA, BOS, or PHX not to match but I’m not overly optimistic. If we decide to waive Okpala and Moneke, that gives us $20.3 mil in cap space. If we trade our 2023 1st round pick for a future 1st, that brings the cap to $22.9 mil.


TLDR: There could be a path to resigning Barnes AND signing someone like PJ Washington, Grant Williams, or Cameron Johnson but it’s a narrow path. If we do make that happen and then use an exception on a backup C like Naz Reid, Nerlens Noel, Damian Jones, etc., I could see our rotation looking like:

PG - Fox (24 min) / Mitchell (24 min)
SG - Huerter (16 min) / Monk (24 min) / Fox (8 min)
SF - Murray (28 min) / Huerter (12 min) / Barnes (8 min)
PF - Washington (28 min) / Barnes (20 min)
C - Sabonis (32 min) / Reid (16 min)

Fox = 32 min
Sabonis = 32 min
Huerter = 28 min
Murray = 28 min
Washington = 28 min
Barnes = 28 min
Mitchell = 24 min
Monk = 24 min
Reid = 16 min

That’s a pretty strong 9 man rotation with everyone being on the same timeline (besides Barnes). On top of that, you could potentially still have your 2023 1st round pick as another asset to develop in the background.

 

[SacTownKid]

If we want to keep it simple, the goal should be to trade Holmes for cap space at the deadline. Even if it takes a 2nd or two to move him.

If we do that, our payroll would be at $95 mil next season with the following players under contract:

1. Fox
2. Sabonis
3. Huerter
4. Monk
5. Murray
6. Mitchell
7. Okpala
8. Moneke

The cap hold on a mid 1st round pick would be around $3.5 mil. That would bring our cap to $98.5 mil. But we only have 9 roster spots accounted for (need 12) so we need to add 3 minimum rookie salary cap holds ($982K * 3 = $2.946 mil) to count against our cap bringing it to $101.446 mil. The salary cap is currently projected to be $134 mil leaving us with ~$32.5 mil in cap space.

I don’t think that would be enough cap space to resign Barnes and sign one of PJ Washington, Grant Williams, or Cameron Johnson. I’m thinking Barnes will get an average of $16-20 mil per year this off-season. However, if we can resign Barnes to a deal where the 1st year is $15 mil, that leaves us with ~$18.5 mil in cap space (one of the minimum rookie salary cap holds is removed). Maybe that’s enough to convince CHA, BOS, or PHX not to match but I’m not overly optimistic. If we decide to waive Okpala and Moneke, that gives us $20.3 mil in cap space. If we trade our 2023 1st round pick for a future 1st, that brings the cap to $22.9 mil.


TLDR: There could be a path to resigning Barnes AND signing someone like PJ Washington, Grant Williams, or Cameron Johnson but it’s a narrow path. If we do make that happen and then use an exception on a backup C like Naz Reid, Nerlens Noel, Damian Jones, etc., I could see our rotation looking like:

PG - Fox (24 min) / Mitchell (24 min)
SG - Huerter (16 min) / Monk (24 min) / Fox (8 min)
SF - Murray (28 min) / Huerter (12 min) / Barnes (8 min)
PF - Washington (28 min) / Barnes (20 min)
C - Sabonis (32 min) / Reid (16 min)

Fox = 32 min
Sabonis = 32 min
Huerter = 28 min
Murray = 28 min
Washington = 28 min
Barnes = 28 min
Mitchell = 24 min
Monk = 24 min
Reid = 16 min

That’s a pretty strong 9 man rotation with everyone being on the same timeline (besides Barnes). On top of that, you could potentially still have your 2023 1st round pick as another asset to develop in the background.

I can't see how Naz doesn't get some legit starter deal from someone. He's still under the radar but my goodness, the team that signs him could reap endless production value out of him.

 

[SacTownKid]

Davion should not be traded unless it is part of a deal to get a star or a player that provides rim protection and stretches the floor. Dude is still figuring things out. But he brings it every night and feeds the culture.

I like Bey - but I love Davion. And Bey isn’t currently better than Barnes.

Right now Davion simply doesn't have the value to highlight a package. I would also hate to see him moved, but I'd hate even more to see this franchise pull off another Holmes level deal on a backup unless they're contenders. If Monte has plans of keeping Davion long term, let alone some of these other pieces perhaps, like TD, Monk, Barnes, etc. he's got to start planning now. I would still like Monte to be able to make a push in FA this summer but Holmes and his deal might put the brakes on that. DO NOT OVERPAY BACKUP PG's and C's in the modern game. That's the rule. The Kings are learning that about the C spot now.

 

[The_Jamal]

I can't see how Naz doesn't get some legit starter deal from someone. He's still under the radar but my goodness, the team that signs him could reap endless production value out of him.

For the same reason, no one saw Hartenstein, no one saw Holmes, no one saw Boucher, LAL gave away Zubac. Teams just give away these productive bigs that aren't "perfect" fits in the modern game but are still so impactful

 

[Stan.Helsing]

I like Bey but he’s not really the defender nor rim protector I’d want. This team desperately needs a long forward who can defend, help protect the rim, and space the floor.

Fair enough. There aren't many SFs who can do all of those things... defend, protect the rim, space the floor. The ones who can do all of those things are usually stars or too costly for the Kings to trade for. Like if the Kings could get OG Anunoby or Deandre Hunter, that would be amazing.

Since a trade like that doesn't seem possible though, the Kings could go for others like Herbert Jones or Dorian Finney-Smith. The Pelicans have a club option on Herbert Jones for next season at just $1,836,096. The Kings will need to be devious here and do it soon, i.e., by "convincing" Herbert to ask the Pelicans not to take up the club option, so he can sign as a Free Agent with the team of his choice. The Kings could then offer him a contract of 4-years @ $60-80m, whatever it takes to sign him up. The leftover cap-space can be offered to either Harrison Barnes or PJ Washington. I think you said the Kings will have $32.5m freed, so perhaps, $15m (?) per year for one of Barnes/PJ... which would be fair value to them.

Fox, Huerter/Monk, Herbert, Keegan, Sabonis... that will be a crazy good starting/closing 5.

The Kings are at a place where the momentum is really good. Feels like they need a move like this to keep the momentum going before they can make the next step up, i.e., to being a well-oiled machine that competes for the title.

 

[twslam07]

Fair enough. There aren't many SFs who can do all of those things... defend, protect the rim, space the floor. The ones who can do all of those things are usually stars or too costly for the Kings to trade for. Like if the Kings could get OG Anunoby or Deandre Hunter, that would be amazing.

Since a trade like that doesn't seem possible though, the Kings could go for others like Herbert Jones or Dorian Finney-Smith. The Pelicans have a club option on Herbert Jones for next season at just $1,836,096. The Kings will need to be devious here and do it soon, i.e., by "convincing" Herbert to ask the Pelicans not to take up the club option, so he can sign as a Free Agent with the team of his choice. The Kings could then offer him a contract of 4-years @ $60-80m, whatever it takes to sign him up. The leftover cap-space can be offered to either Harrison Barnes or PJ Washington. I think you said the Kings will have $32.5m freed, so perhaps, $15m (?) per year for one of Barnes/PJ... which would be fair value to them.

Fox, Huerter/Monk, Herbert, Keegan, Sabonis... that will be a crazy good starting/closing 5.

The Kings are at a place where the momentum is really good. Feels like they need a move like this to keep the momentum going before they can make the next step up, i.e., to being a well-oiled machine that competes for the title.

The point I have made in many of my posts is that I think Murray can be that rare type of SF. I think he'll be able to defend either SFs or PFs down the road. Heck, Mike Brown intentionally has him guarding PGs and SGs now. I don't think guarding SFs full time is going to be an issue especially as he continues to develop his body.

So if we have that rare type of player at SF already, it makes it a bit easier to find a similar type of player at PF (someone who can shoot, defend, & help protect the rim)

 

[twslam07]

I can't see how Naz doesn't get some legit starter deal from someone. He's still under the radar but my goodness, the team that signs him could reap endless production value out of him.

Yeah, I think he'll be a solid get for someone, and the Wolves likely won’t be looking to pay him too much with Gobert and Towns there already.

I’d be happy with Noel who would be a change of pace to Sabonis and offer some solid rim protection when Sabonis sits.

I really like the starters in my scenario (Fox-Huerter-Murray-Washington-Sabonis) and think that would be a very complementary lineup that could grow together. However, a bench of Mitchell, Monk, Barnes, and Noel would have to be one of the best (if not the best) bench in the league. We’d be a pretty formidable team with that type of talent in a 9 man rotation.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

The point I have made in many of my posts is that I think Murray can be that rare type of SF. I think he'll be able to defend either SFs or PFs down the road. Heck, Mike Brown intentionally has him guarding PGs and SGs now. I don't think guarding SFs full time is going to be an issue especially as he continues to develop his body.

So if we have that rare type of player at SF already, it makes it a bit easier to find a similar type of player at PF (someone who can shoot, defend, & help protect the rim)

Well, I agreed that Keegan Murray can guard either SFs or PFs. I'm not sure if Keegan defending PGs and SGs is something the Kings want as a permanent solution though (unless those types make specific plays to get him switched on to them), as it could lead to injury troubles later. I like the idea of someone lighter and more dynamic with movement at SF. Someone who can also be quite disruptive in the passing lanes on defense.

Herbert Jones really would be perfect as the lead defender, i.e., the guy tasked with defending the opposing team's best player (if it's a PG, SG or SF).

 

[SacTownKid]

For the same reason, no one saw Hartenstein, no one saw Holmes, no one saw Boucher, LAL gave away Zubac. Teams just give away these productive bigs that aren't "perfect" fits in the modern game but are still so impactful

True but the difference is Naz got a little attention last season. I think he was being called the best value contract in the league.

 

[SacTownKid]

The point I have made in many of my posts is that I think Murray can be that rare type of SF. I think he'll be able to defend either SFs or PFs down the road. Heck, Mike Brown intentionally has him guarding PGs and SGs now. I don't think guarding SFs full time is going to be an issue especially as he continues to develop his body.

So if we have that rare type of player at SF already, it makes it a bit easier to find a similar type of player at PF (someone who can shoot, defend, & help protect the rim)

Yeah, agree, and in a switch scheme you defend all positions and Murray has looked good there. Individually? So so. On pick and roll when not switching? Pretty poor. As for what position he plays, Murray's a PF offensively. No doubt. A skilled stretch one but whoever plays next to him has to at least have the guard/wing abilities of a Harrison Barnes unless the SF/PF position becomes one of size and spacing. Harrison is responsible for so much of the Kings drive and dish and you can see how much more guard skills and abilities Harrison has over Keegan. Also, on defense Keegan with his arms straight up is literally the only basket protection that starting unit has, lol. He gets cheap BS calls there too. He's changed quite a few shots inside only to get a whistle when he's completely vertical.