Kings Will Listen To Trade Offers For Tyreke Evans

Would you really trade this player?

22yrs old 6'6" 229lb 16.8pts (.456) 4.4reb 4.2ast 1.2stl 0.2blk 2.0TO


YES!!:
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Congrats on having just traded Brandon Roy after his rookie season! Contact David Kahn immediately for employment opportunities.
Reke's stats btw:
22yrs old 6'6" 225lb 16.4pts (.448) 4.6reb 4.5ast 1.3stl 0.5blk 2.7TO

NO!
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Wise man = you get a pretty girl! If you ARE a girl...er...you still get a pretty girl. Sorry.

I wasn't following them very closely the last few years, but I seem to recall Portland having some issues finding the ideal backcourt paring with Roy as well. Can we learn anything from their experience?
 
I sometimes think I was the only guy watching the Kings the first half of this year. Reke's problem this year was NOT that he WAS not having a lot of big games. It was that he was mixing in real bad ones with the big games. During that 22 game stretch as a PG under Smart he averaged 18.3pts 5.6reb 5.9ast and 1.7stls, but on only .411 shooting. Almost half of those 22 games were big games:

01/05 MIL 26pts 10reb 5ast
01/08 ORL 28pts 3reb 8ast
01/11 @TOR 29pts 7reb 3ast
01/13 @HOU 27pts 6reb 5ast
01/20 @SAS 23pts 11reb 7ast
01/28 @UTH 31pts 6reb 9ast
01/31 @GSW 22pts 10reb 9ast
02/04 GSW 26pts 4reb 9ast
02/14 CHI 27pts 8reb 8ast

His inconsistency was maddening, but the big game player hadn't gone anywhere. He's just been sent to the corner now and told to stay out of the way of the great things we are doing by his own coach. We have gone 11-24 since that brilliant decision. Chances are good it will be 11-25 after tongiht. So you can see it was a worthwhile move to make.

I always felt that the inconsistancy during that stretch was akin to the growing pains youd see in a rookie player with superstar potential. Smart was actually TEACHING him to be a PG, and Reke's on and off performances were probably him figuring it out. And he WAS slowly figuring it out too, assist numbers were going up, he seemed to be running the team better. I was excited because this was the first time our franchise had Reke at PG AND provided him with coaching that would teach him the position. I have little doubt in my mind that if we stuck with Reke at PG, and Smart kept working with him on the position, he'd be averaging around 7.5 assists by now and our record would be A LOT better.


....But then IT for ROTY happened.

Our franchise is so dumb.
 
01/05 MIL 26pts 10reb 5ast 5 TO, Team assist 16 team TO 19 - Win
01/08 ORL 28pts 3reb 8ast 4 TO, Team assist 16, team TO 17 - Loss
01/11 @TOR 29pts 7reb 3ast 1 TO , Team assist 13, Team TO 16 - Win
01/13 @HOU 27pts 6reb 5ast 4 TO , Team assist 17, team TO 11 - Loss
01/20 @SAS 23pts 11reb 7ast 2 TO , Team assist 16, Team TO 14 - Win
01/28 @UTH 31pts 6reb 9ast 4 TO , Team assist 14, Team TO 14 - Loss
01/31 @GSW 22pts 10reb 9ast 5 TO , Team assist 21, Team TO 18 - Loss
02/04 GSW 26pts 4reb 9ast 1 TO, Team assist 21, Team TO 18 - Win OT
02/14 CHI 27pts 8reb 8ast 3 TO , Team assist 21, Team TO 14 - loss

So they went 4-5 with 1 win against a good team in the Spurs. Team averaged 17.2 assists, 15.66 TO. Points differential was -13.

Current season average is 19.2 assist, 14.6 TO -6 points differential.
 
So they went 4-5 with 1 win against a good team in the Spurs. Team averaged 17.2 assists, 15.66 TO. Points differential was -13.

Current season average is 19.2 assist, 14.6 TO -6 points differential.

Oklahoma City - 30th in assists
Indiana - 28th in assists
Miami - 19th is assists

Assists do not correlate to wins.
 
So they went 4-5 with 1 win against a good team in the Spurs. Team averaged 17.2 assists, 15.66 TO. Points differential was -13.

Current season average is 19.2 assist, 14.6 TO -6 points differential.

Oh look, Mr. Credibility shows up to make sure he can slime anything remotely positive about Reke. Shocker.

Well if you want to play those games, during those games Tyreke averaged:

26.2pts 7.2reb 7.0ast 3.2TO

Over his career Dwayne Wade has averaged:

25.2pts 5.1reb 6.2ast 3.6TO

Last year Derrick Rose won the MVP averaging:

25.0pts 4.1reb 7.7ast 3.4TO


You can feel free to tell Mr. Wade and Mr. Rose how they haven't been getting it done. Meanwhile we will jsut sit over here laughing at you. Have fun.
 
01/05 MIL 26pts 10reb 5ast
01/08 ORL 28pts 3reb 8ast
01/11 @TOR 29pts 7reb 3ast
01/13 @HOU 27pts 6reb 5ast
01/20 @SAS 23pts 11reb 7ast
01/28 @UTH 31pts 6reb 9ast
01/31 @GSW 22pts 10reb 9ast
02/04 GSW 26pts 4reb 9ast
02/14 CHI 27pts 8reb 8ast

Give that guy the freaking ball. Maddening
 
I know they are only #2 in the West but why that win vs OKC was omitted? I guess those scrubs had only 13/23 assist/TO ratio but they still deserve the mention.
As for
So they went 4-5 with 1 win against a good team in the Spurs. Team averaged 17.2 assists, 15.66 TO. Points differential was -13.
Current season average is 19.2 assist, 14.6 TO -6 points differential.
Once again even with at least part of first half being de facto training camp for new coach, start of rookie campaigns for two guys that were 20 minutes players even before the lineup change:
(not counting Westfall fiasco tenure) before Detroit game Kings were 9-16 with 9-16 in home/road games, points differential - (-8.2),
since then 11-24 with 20-15 in home/road games, points differential - (-3.9). That first half team didn't have blowout wins because that was a grind-it-out team slow gelling together hence points differential disadvantage. When they fell apart in early games they did it in spectacular way to the tune of 33 and 39 points losses but in the last 10 games for that team they were 4-6 with only -1.9 points differential. Kings seemed to be on the rapid way up. I don't think you can dispute that with straight face.
 
Oh look, Mr. Credibility shows up to make sure he can slime anything remotely positive about Reke. Shocker.

Well if you want to play those games, during those games Tyreke averaged:

26.2pts 7.2reb 7.0ast 3.2TO

Over his career Dwayne Wade has averaged:

25.2pts 5.1reb 6.2ast 3.6TO

Last year Derrick Rose won the MVP averaging:

25.0pts 4.1reb 7.7ast 3.4TO


You can feel free to tell Mr. Wade and Mr. Rose how they haven't been getting it done. Meanwhile we will jsut sit over here laughing at you. Have fun.

And yet they had winning teams and D Wade isn't a PG. And before you mention teammates you better look at Wades his rookie year when they went 41-41.


You still don't get it. The offense is horrible with Evans being the primary ball handler/initiator. It's not about Evans shots/drives or whatever. It's about when he gets them. Evans bringing the ball up dribbling and driving doesn't get the team anywhere. Evans getting the ball off double teams from Cuz, cuts from the weakside or handoffs from screens = no set defenses at the rim against him.
 
And yet they had winning teams and D Wade isn't a PG. And before you mention teammates you better look at Wades his rookie year when they went 41-41.


You still don't get it. The offense is horrible with Evans being the primary ball handler/initiator. It's not about Evans shots/drives or whatever. It's about when he gets them. Evans bringing the ball up dribbling and driving doesn't get the team anywhere. Evans getting the ball off double teams from Cuz, cuts from the weakside or handoffs from screens = no set defenses at the rim against him.

And you still don't get it: offense is NOT the problem on this team. By the time February had rolled around we were averaging 97.9pts/gm in Feb before we pulled the plug, said screw it, and went smallball. And the scoring had been on a constant uptick since the disastrous start. That's the same number of points as Indiana averages on the season. Its more than enough to win if you are remotely competent at the other things.

BTW Dwayne Wade's team went 42-40. They were coached by Stan Van Gundy, under the umbrella of legendary coach/defensive mastermind Pat Riley. They only scored 90pts a game. But they only gave up 89. That's 15 points better than us. 15!!

Oh, and the teammates you don't think were any good?
Eddie Jones (late in prime), Lamar Odom, Dwayne Wade, Caron Butler, Rafer Alston, Briant Grant, and Udonis Haslem. Nope, no tough defensive minded playoff type vets and kids there. Well...except for all of them that is. Very much the same as Reke's supporting casts have been.
 
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Well they wouldn't of course. But let's say they did, it'd be after we knew our draft position whereby we'd be better able to see the need for Ibaka on the team. Personally, I wouldn't this offseason. If Tyreke stays the same player and it was an offer at the next deadline then I'd do it (assuming we don't have Davis). But again, the Thunder simply wouldn't, because they have no need for Tyreke.

Well I know that the Thunder wouldn't do it. It was purely a hypothetical question, to be answered without colateral circumstances being involved. Would you trade Tyrke straight up for Ibaka? Cousins might go for it just so he wouldn't have to face him during the year. Talent for talent, and forgeting everything else. Lets look at it another way. If you do this trade, and still end up with the 1st pick in the draft, now don't need Davis. You could still take him and have one hell of a defensive frontline starting and coming off the bench. Or, you could now either pick Gilchrist, or trade down for a couple of 1st round picks and perhaps still pick up Barnes, or Taylor. Its all fantasy of course.
 
The frustrating thing is that there are times when he looks like a top 5 talent... games where he just looks like an unstoppable train. The crazy comeback game in Chicago during his rookie year comes to mind. The problem, like you said, is that it doesn't happen enough. Not only that, but it is happening LESS. We can blame that on the '3 guard lineup' but it wasn't happening earlier in the year either. To be fair, I think he has looked better lately .. better than he was a month ago.

Which is why we are in such a tough spot. Does he get better and start to take over more often or does he stay the same? That by default lowers his value (each year older he gets without progression is devaluing him as an asset). The question you start asking is "Will he ever be worth as much as he is worth right now?" It sure seems like we would be selling LOW at this point, which is obviously bad that his value has already dropped since his rookie year, were you could make the case that he was the #1 asset (in terms of age + potential) in the entire league when he won ROY.

Tough.

I think there's a lot of truth in your statement. Tyreke, to his credit, is trying to fit in. And because of that, he's deferring to others on the team. His rookie year, he didn't defer to anyone. Mainly because there wasn't anyone to defer to. But now we have Cuz and Thornton. And as a result, I think he's a little confused at times as to what the team wants from him. The difference between a Lebron, Kobe and a Tyreke, is that both those guys will defer at times, but they also make it known, that they're the best player on the team. They defer because they can, not because they have to. If they want the ball, they demand the ball, and they get the ball.

I don't think Tyreke has that mentality. Cuz does! Rightly or wrongly, he'll demand the ball. Sometimes with bad results. But Cuz will never defer because he believes he can't get the job done. I think Cuz thinks he's the best player on the team. I'm not sure that Tyreke has that same confidence or attitude. And thats not a criticism. It just might be who he is as a person. Nothing wrong with that as long as we don't expect him to be Dwayne Wade or Lebron. Tyreke is one of those quiet one's thats hard to read. Almost the exact opposite of Cuz who has his feelings written all over his face, and in his body language. I may have to do a Vulcan mind meld for futher information. Very taxing however!
 
Oklahoma City - 30th in assists
Indiana - 28th in assists
Miami - 19th is assists

Assists do not correlate to wins.

Not always, but if you look at scores around the league on a nightly basis, the team that has over 20 assists and under 12 turnovers, plus led the other team in rebounds, probably wins 80% or the time. The key is in the assist to turnover ratio. It doesn't do you much good to have 24 assists in a game if you have 20 turnovers as well. And being a good defensive rebounding team and therefore limiting second chance points is also a huge factor.

I think if your a team that doesn't get many assists, and your still winning, then you must have a Kobe, Wade, Lebron etc. on your team. If you don't have one of those top players, then you need to win with team play. And the best kind of team play is when everyone is involved on both ends of the court. That requires ball movement, which should add up to assists. So to say that assists don't add up to wins, almost has a negative connotation to it, and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. While assists in and of themselves may not ensure victory, they certainly help!
 
Not always, but if you look at scores around the league on a nightly basis, the team that has over 20 assists and under 12 turnovers, plus led the other team in rebounds, probably wins 80% or the time. The key is in the assist to turnover ratio. It doesn't do you much good to have 24 assists in a game if you have 20 turnovers as well. And being a good defensive rebounding team and therefore limiting second chance points is also a huge factor.

I think if your a team that doesn't get many assists, and your still winning, then you must have a Kobe, Wade, Lebron etc. on your team. If you don't have one of those top players, then you need to win with team play. And the best kind of team play is when everyone is involved on both ends of the court. That requires ball movement, which should add up to assists. So to say that assists don't add up to wins, almost has a negative connotation to it, and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. While assists in and of themselves may not ensure victory, they certainly help!

I hear what you are saying but don't think that any team without Kobe, Wade, or Lebron necessarily needs to focus on a lot of ball movement in order to win. There are good and bad teams with a lot of assists. There are good and bad teams with few assists. Wisdom dictates that you use an offensive system that plays to the strengths of the best players. If your top guys are a prime Nash, Amare, Marion you're going to have a lot of assists as you should. Our best players and offensive skills - Cousins in the post, Tyreke driving, MT creating own jumpshot. That's just not going to lend itself to a high assist total. It's good to have a passer at the 3 like AK or even Terrance Williams to keep things from stagnating but we can still kill teams with those skills if a coach uses them right and they are surrounded with the right supporting cast.
 
I sometimes think I was the only guy watching the Kings the first half of this year. Reke's problem this year was NOT that he was not having a lot of big games. It was that he was mixing in real bad ones with the big games. During that 22 game stretch as a PG under Smart he averaged 18.3pts 5.6reb 5.9ast and 1.7stls, but on only .411 shooting. Almost half of those 22 games were big games:

01/05 MIL 26pts 10reb 5ast
01/08 ORL 28pts 3reb 8ast
01/11 @TOR 29pts 7reb 3ast
01/13 @HOU 27pts 6reb 5ast
01/20 @SAS 23pts 11reb 7ast
01/28 @UTH 31pts 6reb 9ast
01/31 @GSW 22pts 10reb 9ast
02/04 GSW 26pts 4reb 9ast
02/14 CHI 27pts 8reb 8ast

His inconsistency was maddening, but the big game player hadn't gone anywhere. He's just been sent to the corner now and told to stay out of the way of the great things we are doing by his own coach. We have gone 11-24 since that brilliant decision. Chances are good it will be 11-25 after tongiht. So you can see it was a worthwhile move to make.

Is that good enough though? is that him playing at his highest level? 1 good game for 1 bad game and a bad record to show for it?

And I'm not advocating him at SF, or Thomas as PG, or all 3 guards starting together. I hate that garbage as much as anyone. I'm just concerned with his progression .. as everyone should be.

The fact that HE is taking a back seat to Thornton and Thomas upsets me. We can talk about how much he has the ball and how few plays are called for him all we want, but that's not ENOUGH of an excuse. It can be some of an excuse ... but he still should be better. He's too good, too talented, too hard to guard for me to be satisfied with how he has played over the past two years. He's on another talent level from Thornton and Thomas ... his play should dictate how many touches those guys get, not the other way around. I'm just surprised he's allowed those two guys to take him so far out of his game. And I don't blame MT or Thomas. They play like they have to earn it.. they are hungry. It's almost like they want Tyreke's job and are willing to fight for it, and Evans is just letting them have it. Show me Evans ... show me your better than those guys. I think you are.

I love this player. There is no better feeling than watching your guys just physically dominate the opposing teams players like Evans (and Cousins) can do. Its the best. I want to see it more.

I'd keep going, but it's time to go play some basketball of my own :)
 
So we know his trade value is around the Monta ellis ballpark according to reports.

Remember...its the Maloofs/Peaches we're talking here...we'll get 'movable pieces' I'm sure. Oh, and we'll throw in a 'conditional' 1st round pick to make the deal more sweet for the other team.
 
Do you think Indiana would give us Granger for Tyreke, IMHO I thing Granger could be the SF we need

I've kind of soured on Granger. He would still be a valuable piece to our team but his numbers in nearly every facet of the game have been going down over the last few years.
 
Oklahoma City - 30th in assists
Indiana - 28th in assists
Miami - 19th is assists

Assists do not correlate to wins.

And we sucked at defense with either lineup out there so at least we had something going right for us the last half of the season. It didn't translate to wins but that should tell you how bad our defense was with the players we have.


Also, back on topic:

What kind of plays can we call for Evans? The only thing Evans can do consistently is drive to the basket. So every playcall would be Evans to the hoop???

We have the option of just giving Evans the ball and letting him work, but that would turn into Evans holding the ball for 15-20 seconds and passing if he does not have a shot where the person he passes to has to shoot a quick jump shot which is in most likeliness a bad shot..

That was why our FG% was so terrible. It took too long for Evans to get into the offense after his attempt to score failed so he passes it off with 8 seconds left on the clock and the person gets a bad shot... That wrecks our FG% and that wrecks our assists per game as a team. That is what was happening at the start of the season. Not every play but enough that our team was bottom of the league in all offensive stats.

We were not, and will not go anywhere no matter how good our defense gets if we are constantly getting bad shots with little to no time left on the shot clock.

Can that be corrected? Sure, but it would take the ball out of Evans hands unless you are OK with him holding the ball? The bad shots and low FG% has EVERYTHING to do with seeing the floor, and as a PG I don't care if he was averaging 7apg in that stretch brick posted. If our team is only shooting 40% and we are constant;y taking bad shots with no time left on the shot clock then that's the PGs fault for either not getting into the offense fast enough (i.e. holding the ball too long) or not being able to see the floor and get the ball to an open man for a good shot.

EDIT: sorry, I have been adding to this post as new thoughts arrive so it might look a bit weird and like i was going from one argument to another.
 
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And we sucked at defense with either lineup out there so at least we had something going right for us the last half of the season. It didn't translate to wins but that should tell you how bad our defense was with the players we have.


Also, back on topic:

What kind of plays can we call for Evans? The only thing Evans can do consistently is drive to the basket. So every playcall would be Evans to the hoop???

We have the option of just giving Evans the ball and letting him work, but that would turn into Evans holding the ball for 15-20 seconds and passing if he does not have a shot where the person he passes to has to shoot a quick jump shot which is in most likeliness a bad shot..

That was why our FG% was so terrible. It took too long for Evans to get into the offense after his attempt to score failed so he passes it off with 8 seconds left on the clock and the person gets a bad shot... That wrecks our FG% and that wrecks our assists per game as a team. That is what was happening at the start of the season. Not every play but enough that our team was bottom of the league in all offensive stats.

We were not, and will not go anywhere no matter how good our defense gets if we are constantly getting bad shots with little to no time left on the shot clock.

Can that be corrected? Sure, but it would take the ball out of Evans hands unless you are OK with him holding the ball? The bad shots and low FG% has EVERYTHING to do with seeing the floor, and as a PG I don't care if he was averaging 7apg in that stretch brick posted. If our team is only shooting 40% and we are constant;y taking bad shots with no time left on the shot clock then that's the PGs fault for either not getting into the offense fast enough (i.e. holding the ball too long) or not being able to see the floor and get the ball to an open man for a good shot.

EDIT: sorry, I have been adding to this post as new thoughts arrive so it might look a bit weird and like i was going from one argument to another.

is this really an evans problem, though? really? or aren't you just clouding the issue with flaws that you desperately want to imagine? it seems pretty clear to everyone who actually pays attention that tyreke is versatile and capable of more than simply "driving to the basket." point of fact, that is quite obviously his greatest skill, and its an intensely valued skill around the nba. however, isn't it the fault of the coaching staff not to exploit the other skills he has in order to maximize his usage? the problem with you incessant anti-reke posters is that you haven't actually been watching him. you've instead been watching out for your bias, which is useless in the face of example. there have been numerous times this season when evans has executed cuts with cousins operating in the post:


he even managed to do so with spencer hawes during his rookie season:


he's done it. we know he can do it. and tyreke's superior strength as a guard is an asset that would allow such a play to find repeated success if it was, ya know, repeated. likewise, there are numerous examples of evans effectively operating in the pick and roll. here's an example from last season:


and a game-winning pick and roll against milwaukee during his rookie season:


these are skills that could very easily be exploited within the construct of an offense if the kings' coaching staff was actually interested in running a nuanced offense. you certainly do not have to shift tyreke out of position in order to teach him something about moving without the ball, for example. you can, however, draw up a simple, textbook pick and roll, just like in the examples above, and get him moving without the ball, no matter what position he's playing. and, beyond that, there are skills we may not even know he has yet. a creative coach like rick adelman would post up a player like bonzi wells on smaller guards because he's a good teacher and a smart coach, and he understood how to maximize wells' strength. adelman knows how to craft an offensive set around a player's physical gifts in order to achieve a balanced attack. evans has similar physical gifts, and a good coach would know how to exploit those gifts. why hasn't he posted up wimpy guards around the league yet? is it because he can't? or is it because he's had two controlling head coaches who would rather use him in a much different and more limited fashion? there's a reason certain players break out when they're signed or traded elsewhere. they have coaches that trust their skillsets. rick adelman is a master of taking under- or mis-utilized talents and getting the most out of them. that's because rick adelman is a good coach. paul westphal, on the other hand, is not a good coach. keith smart is not a good coach. really, in truth, smart is just an inexperienced coach, and his tutelage came under the master of gimmick ball, so its no surprise whatsoever that he's alienated tyreke into trade bait. its disgraceful, and should result in smart's dismissal, if the maloof's weren't too broke to pursue a real head coach in his place...

anyway, there ya have it. i've provided actual evidence that evans can perform beyond the expectations of his detractors. "he can't move without the ball." well, he's done it. see video evidence. "he can't play the pick and roll." well, he's done it. see video evidence. so why do you insist he "can't"? to all of you detractors: do you honestly believe that just because you say he can't, that he really can't? the ego possessing the lot of you is astounding. and if anybody wants to counter my argument by saying that the evidence i've provided is insubstantial, then i would ask you what would be substantial? and isn't it on the coaching staff to provide us with substantial evidence that tyreke evans is as limited as the ways in which he's being currently used? there's been no proof. keith smart himself is in constant backpedal mode because he made the oh-so-obvious claim that evans is not a SF, and should be operating as a guard and one of the primary weapons of the team. i dunno what happened in between then and now, but smart must have chickened out or something. he hasn't spent any time attempting to mold tyreke's versatility into a weapon. that's on the coaching staff. that's not on tyreke. he's got holes in his game. his flaws are obvious. but they are not game-breaking. they are not trade-worthy. and his existing skill set should be highly-valued enough to earn him a consistent feature in the offense, behind cousins, because gimmick ball does not put ticks in the win column. simple as that...
 
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That's proof he can do it but he cannot play off the ball consistently, and he needs to get better if the team is going to get better.

Most of those are just drives and kicks, or drives by Evans. That's exactly what I had said. I got no problems with calling plays for Evans at all that are drives, or drives and kicks, I just want him to do it from the SG position, and I want him to learn to play off the ball. We spent two and a half years watching him run the clock down, and either drive or kick off to someone with next to no time left on the clock for a bad shot. Sometimes the player makes a bad shot and Evans gets an assist. On the stat sheet people think he did well because all that they see is the assist. But look at the teams FG%. That starts with the PG getting good shots for the team. Yes, the players have to make it but you would think the same players would be making 41% of the FGs no matter which PG they play with but in fact they are 6% higher with someone who can see the floor half way decent. In BBall terms that is a lot. Especially when the team is taking a lot more shots because of fatigue setting in.

I do not think Evans should be given free reign. If he's an elite player he should be able to be elite without the ball, and he should learn how to shoot jump shots.
 
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I said consistently. You can call other plays for him, and you can post all the youtubes you want of him making those plays but bottom line is that he's not consistent at making all the shots you had posted.

now that is some truly weak support for your argument, friend. if you were a member of the utah jazz, andrew bynum would have swatted that pathetic **** away for his 11th and nba record setting block in a playoff game...

i attempted to offer perspective in the "discuss" thread in kings rap. i will do so again here: in his first three seasons in the nba, tony parker averaged 44% shooting from the field. in his first three seasons in the nba, tyreke evans averaged, guess what, exactly 44% from the field. news flash: young talents are often inconsistent early in their careers. i know that may be a shocker, but you don't give up on those talents, because versatile players who get to the rim consistently will eventually find the bottom of the net consistently. its damn near a given, and history bears it out consistently, as long as the coaching staff puts said player in a position to succeed...
 
now that is some truly weak support for your argument, friend. if you were a member of the utah jazz, andrew bynum would have swatted that pathetic **** away for his 11th and nba record setting block in a playoff game...

i attempted to offer perspective in the "discuss" thread in kings rap. i will do so again here: in his first three seasons in the nba, tony parker averaged 44% shooting from the field. in his first three seasons in the nba, tyreke evans averaged, guess what, exactly 44% from the field. news flash: young talents are often inconsistent early in their careers. i know that may be a shocker, but you don't give up on those talents, because versatile players who get to the rim consistently will eventually find the bottom of the net consistently. its damn near a given, and history bears it out consistently, as long as the coaching staff puts said player in a position to succeed...

I had changed my post after thinking about it. But looking back it's pretty true. He's not the most consistent player at anything but the plays that are in those youtube videos but I believe he's damn good at driving. He needs to become "damn good" at other facets of the game as well.

EDIT: another edit after thinking. I tend to do it a lot.
 
I had changed my post after thinking about it. But looking back it's pretty true. He's not the most consistent player at anything but the plays that are in those youtube videos but I believe he's damn good at driving. He needs to become "damn good" at other facets of the game as well.

EDIT: another edit after thinking. I tend to do it a lot.

that's fair. i self-edit a lot, too, as i go, and after the fact. but again, i point to organizational constraints that have suppressed tyreke's natural skillset, on top of the organization's failure to utilize his versatility. that's quite the double-whammy, to borrow a phrase from my elementary school days. a player simply cannot develop consistency if he is not utilized in a consistent fashion. i feel like the rick adelman would be working wonders with a player like evans. if adelman could squeeze out every iota of talent that an over-the-hill bonzi wells brought to the sacramento kings before those days passed, he's certainly capable of turning a player with tyreke evans' "damn good" potential into an all star...

i mean, all we're dealing with, after all, are hypotheticals. we don't know how tyreke would handle an adelman offense, for example, but ownership and management should be doing right by the players they acquire by placing them in the hands of a capable coaching staff. then that coaching staff should be doing right by those same players by maximizing their given skill sets. nobody on any side of any argument regarding this kings team's performance can say with a straight face that ownership, management, and the coaching staff have effectively maximized the skill sets of the kings' most talented players...

now, tyreke evans is not lebron james. if he was, he would have been the #1 pick in his draft class. he doesn't excel in every facet of the game, and it should be clear as day that evans is never going to reach lebron james levels of greatness. but, if paired with demarcus cousins for a healthy portion of his career, he doesn't need to in order to contend. he shouldn't be given "free reign," but that's what offensive schema is for!! a pick and roll offense would discipline every one of the kings young talents, not just evans. if anything, keith smart has given free reign over to isaiah thomas to run rampant up and down the court. thomas has handled his promotion admirably, but it has not yielded a damn thing in the win column...

in fact, a case can easily be made that the kings are worse under keith smart than they were under paul westphal. their defense is more undisciplined than it used to be, as smart's gameplan demands that his players gamble for steals...
 
And we sucked at defense with either lineup out there so at least we had something going right for us the last half of the season. It didn't translate to wins but that should tell you how bad our defense was with the players we have.
...
That was why our FG% was so terrible. It took too long for Evans to get into the offense after his attempt to score failed so he passes it off with 8 seconds left on the clock and the person gets a bad shot... That wrecks our FG% and that wrecks our assists per game as a team. That is what was happening at the start of the season. Not every play but enough that our team was bottom of the league in all offensive stats.
Last 10 game stretch before IT was starting:
4-6, 4-6 in home/road games. Rather than using opponents season records (at the time Minnesota still had Rubio, GS weren't tanking, and Portland still had Aldridge and Crash) to determine SOS, I take 5 games before and 5 games after teams played Kings: 53-47 for SOS.530.
Kings------FG%42.33(FGpg84.8), 3pt%37.17, FTpg23.1, Apg18.3, TOpg14.1.
oppTeams-FG%45.63(FGpg82.4), 3pt%37.24, FTpg20.3, Apg22.9, TOpg15.0.
Not impressive numbers but pretty passable.
Did you notice that Kings were getting 1,4 more FGpg and 2.8 more FTpg (3ptpg were virtually the same) than their opponents. Happens when you rebound the ball better and are bigger than your opponents. Tall lineups have very distinct advantages.
 
Last 10 game stretch before IT was starting:
4-6, 4-6 in home/road games. Rather than using opponents season records (at the time Minnesota still had Rubio, GS weren't tanking, and Portland still had Aldridge and Crash) to determine SOS, I take 5 games before and 5 games after teams played Kings: 53-47 for SOS.530.
Kings------FG%42.33(FGpg84.8), 3pt%37.17, FTpg23.1, Apg18.3, TOpg14.1.
oppTeams-FG%45.63(FGpg82.4), 3pt%37.24, FTpg20.3, Apg22.9, TOpg15.0.
Not impressive numbers but pretty passable.
Did you notice that Kings were getting 1,4 more FGpg and 2.8 more FTpg (3ptpg were virtually the same) than their opponents. Happens when you rebound the ball better and are bigger than your opponents. Tall lineups have very distinct advantages.

I had closed the window DOH!!!!!! I had a nice long post with FG% during those 10 games, and even went back 5 more to show how inconsistent our offense was, and how terrible our defense was.. Even though we went 4-6 we were still stinking it up with the exception of the SA game.

There was a game against Indiana which we WON but we shot 30%!!!!! I remember being at that game and I was dumbfounded at the fact that we won.

The three games Evans was absent we shot 54%, 43% and I think 45% and our opponents fg% was 42%, 41% and 38% I believe. We won all three. I was going game by game as you took the average. Game by game shows how badly our consistency was, and how much worse it was going back 15 games before IT started. Our offense was inconsistent, and our defense was horrible. We had like 5 games out of 15 I went back where the opposing team averaged more than 50%. That's bad.
 
1. Wins over Indiana and San Antonio were NOT within 10 games of one vs Detroit. As for Indiana game did you miss 30 offensive rebounds and as a result 15 more FGs and 14 more FTs? In the NBA if you're that physically dominant and scrappy it doesn't matter what offense you run.
2. If oppTeams' FG%45.63 is horrible, what oppTeams' FG%48 is then? Isaiah Thomas off the bench shot .383 from the field, Thornton shot .369 from the field, .268 from beyond the arc. Bench sucked as a whole as well. With all the obvious problems, that were mostly simple cold shooting streaks, that team still found ways to win. Offense was progressing. Very slowly, but it was.
 
I hear what you are saying but don't think that any team without Kobe, Wade, or Lebron necessarily needs to focus on a lot of ball movement in order to win. There are good and bad teams with a lot of assists. There are good and bad teams with few assists. Wisdom dictates that you use an offensive system that plays to the strengths of the best players. If your top guys are a prime Nash, Amare, Marion you're going to have a lot of assists as you should. Our best players and offensive skills - Cousins in the post, Tyreke driving, MT creating own jumpshot. That's just not going to lend itself to a high assist total. It's good to have a passer at the 3 like AK or even Terrance Williams to keep things from stagnating but we can still kill teams with those skills if a coach uses them right and they are surrounded with the right supporting cast.

If your trying to make the case that you can win without a lot of assists, I won't deny that. But are you saying that its something you should strive for? Yeah, the Heat win without a lot of assists, but they have the ball going throught 2 main guys. I'm not a fan of having just one or two players dominating the ball. Hell the biggest complaint that most fans here still make about Tyreke, rightly or wrongly, is that he dominates the ball. I don't like isolation basketball. If you do, then fine. But to me its boring, and seldom wins a championship, which the Heat have yet to do with their current cast.

I love watching teams like the Spurs, that rely on ball movement to score. Your almost making it sound like assists are a bad thing. I think ball movement and total team involvement is the way basketball should be played. Especially if you don't have a Wade and Lebron on your team. And even then, I much perfer a motion type of offense. If your actually arguing against assists, because thats how it appears, then you and I have nothing left to talk about.
 
If your trying to make the case that you can win without a lot of assists, I won't deny that. But are you saying that its something you should strive for? Yeah, the Heat win without a lot of assists, but they have the ball going throught 2 main guys. I'm not a fan of having just one or two players dominating the ball. Hell the biggest complaint that most fans here still make about Tyreke, rightly or wrongly, is that he dominates the ball. I don't like isolation basketball. If you do, then fine. But to me its boring, and seldom wins a championship, which the Heat have yet to do with their current cast.

I love watching teams like the Spurs, that rely on ball movement to score. Your almost making it sound like assists are a bad thing. I think ball movement and total team involvement is the way basketball should be played. Especially if you don't have a Wade and Lebron on your team. And even then, I much perfer a motion type of offense. If your actually arguing against assists, because thats how it appears, then you and I have nothing left to talk about.

I'm not arguing against assists. You're putting words in my mouth. I said assists don't correlate to wins...because they don't.

You know what I love?
Every time Cousins kills someone with a beastly post move - 0 assists
Every time Evans pulls a "holy **** did he just make that?" drive - 0 assists

The elite skills of our current players do not lend themselves to high team assist totals. We just are not that team and will not be with our current go-to offensive plays. That's ok too since high assists do not necessarily mean a winning team. We just need our best players to mature and to put a better supporting cast around them IMO.
 
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