[Game] Kings @ Warriors, 12/20/2021 7pm Pacific, 10pm Eastern

[Kingster]

Very true. I just think Hali needs to channel this energy and mentality into those same game when Fox is there. I could understand the difference in aggression if Fox was some super selfish chucker, but, he really isn’t that kind of player IMO. I really wanna see what Coach Christie can do with our team at least semi healthy again before we trade Fox to Philly and watch he and Embiid torch more than half of the Eastern conference

The uncoventional thing about the Fox-Halli combo is that the guy who is the truest of point guards - Halli - is also the guy who is best at shooting off the catch, especially 3s. Usually, the player that is more of a two-guard (in this case Fox) is the player who is going to move without the ball some and hit some shots off the catch. At this point Fox is not that player. At this point I'd say Fox might shoot off the catch less than 10% of the time.

 

[ESP47]

I liked what I saw out of Haliburton yesterday. Needs to show more of that type of aggression and less passiveness on offense. He normally plays like he's deathly afraid of contact but he shot 7 FTs last night and that aggressiveness showed in his Lonzo Ball type numbers in the box score. He needs to let that 3 ball rip early in the shot clock if he has the opening. It's more efficient for him to shoot that if he's open than it is for them to run a play.

 

[Kingster]

Just listened to an Adam Silver interview and he said the NBA wasn't there "yet" to allow asymptomatic players to play. Obviously, he's leaving open the possibility of such an eventuality. So, if the rules change, then BOOM, the Kings will be probably be screwed relative to the rest of the teams that haven't yet been infected by the virus because they probably will have most of their roster on the floor even if infected but not sick with the virus.

 

[EIM86]

Yeah I hope to see what Doug might get out of Hali and Fox on the floor together before using Fox as a trade chip.
It’s great seeing what Hali can do alone as a lead guard but Fox can score and might just be better suited as our SG.
Moves still need to be made, but I would think a significant upgrade can happen without parting with those two.

still can’t believe people seriously think we gonna get Simmons/sabonis etc LOL

 

[gunks]

still can’t believe people seriously think we gonna get Simmons/sabonis etc LOL

I mean, if I’m Indy I pull the trigger on a Fox for Sabonis trade…

All the trade chatter is interesting, I think Fox is our most valuable piece, but like others I want to see him and Hali play together a bit under DC.

Fox as SG is super intriguing. Obviously it would be more of a slam dunk if he was a threat from 3, but that’s a lot of talent in the backcourt… got to at least give it a shot.

 

[Tetsujin]

still can’t believe people seriously think we gonna get Simmons/sabonis etc LOL

Or that we’re going to suddenly turn extra good just by simply trading Fox for one of them without addressing any of the many other issues on the roster.

you somehow get one of them without trading Fox or Haliburton for them and you have enough talent to probably at least get into the postseason regardless of roster issues. You simply trade Fox for Simmons and Sabonis and you’d still have an incredibly unbalanced roster with its own new problems.

 

[SLAB]

We’re 1-2 in these last three games and the win was against an incredibly inconsistent Spurs team that struggles to defend the one thing our team is actually good at on offense.
I get what you’re saying but it’s not like the Kings have suddenly turned into the Warriors since Fox went out.

I mean, we weren’t killing it with Fox either and Hali had reverted to a shell. I’m not necessarily screaming to trade Fox, but I get it, and I’m absolutely listening now.

 

[Tetsujin]

I mean, we weren’t killing it with Fox either and Hali had reverted to a shell. I’m not necessarily screaming to trade Fox, but I get it, and I’m absolutely listening now.

But I mean, do we really need to trade Fox simply because Haliburton is afraid to shoot the ball otherwise or could we just, I dunno, have him be aggressive in situations where he isn’t the only healthy ballhandler on the team?

 

[EIM86]

I mean, if I’m Indy I pull the trigger on a Fox for Sabonis trade…

All the trade chatter is interesting, I think Fox is our most valuable piece, but like others I want to see him and Hali play together a bit under DC.

Fox as SG is super intriguing. Obviously it would be more of a slam dunk if he was a threat from 3, but that’s a lot of talent in the backcourt… got to at least give it a shot.

So you would trade an all star big man that averaged nearly a triple double a game last year for a guy that can score at will but not a great shooter and doesn’t play defense all The time? Fox is my favorite player and I wear his jersey every game I go to but I don’t think so man. We gotta be more realistic and keeping Fox is better then trading him for a player that prolly won’t make us that much better and will just fill a hole that we created by trading Fox

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

We’re 1-2 in these last three games and the win was against an incredibly inconsistent Spurs team that struggles to defend the one thing our team is actually good at on offense.
I get what you’re saying but it’s not like the Kings have suddenly turned into the Warriors since Fox went out.

Y'all haven't even turned into the Hornets, since Fox went out.

 

[EIM86]

Or that we’re going to suddenly turn extra good just by simply trading Fox for one of them without addressing any of the many other issues on the roster.

you somehow get one of them without trading Fox or Haliburton for them and you have enough talent to probably at least get into the postseason regardless of roster issues. You simply trade Fox for Simmons and Sabonis and you’d still have an incredibly unbalanced roster with its own new problems.

I think we should just forget about making the play in and get Patrick Baldwin Jr. He would be a great addition to this team. He’s an excellent shooter and a wing. Fox will have more space to go to the hoop with him on the squad, we’ll
Have more shooting, and our wingless team will have a wing

 

[Tetsujin]

So you would trade an all star big man that averaged nearly a triple double a game last year for a guy that can score at will but not a great shooter and doesn’t play defense all The time? Fox is my favorite player and I wear his jersey every game I go to but I don’t think so man. We gotta be more realistic and keeping Fox is better then trading him for a player that prolly won’t make us that much better and will just fill a hole that we created by trading Fox

I love me some Domas but that is some generous rounding there.

 

[EIM86]

I love me some Domas but that is some generous rounding there.

he was 20/12/6.7 last year

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I mean, if I’m Indy I pull the trigger on a Fox for Sabonis trade…

Why? Unless you think that Indiana has a too-many-bigs "problem," that needs to be "solved," I don't know what trading their best big for a guard is supposed to do for them, other than recreate Sacramento's backcourt in Indianapolis? I mean, what is Malcolm Brogdon, but a more mature Tyrese Haliburton? And, for what, so Myles Turner can get more touches?

 

[Tetsujin]

he was 20/12/6.7 last year

Which, while very impressive, isn't close to averaging a triple double.

And the thing about that season is that the Pacers really boosted Domantas's usage that season and turned him into the number one option only for things to go completely to hell. Carlisle has shifted their team focus back to the guards this season and the Pacers still look like crap so I'm not saying that's on Sabonis but I'm not sure he's the Lithuanian Jokic Kings fans seem to think he is more than he is a super 3rd/2nd option type like Vlade/Brad Miller were on the Kings (not an insult by any means since both of those guys were all-stars for us).

Trading Fox for him just ends up giving us two super glue guys in Sabonis and Haliburton and essentially just turns us into the Pacers except with Richaun Holmes and Harrison Barnes instead of Myles Turner and Caris Levert.

Now, if the Kings somehow managed to Fox and ran with a core of Fox/Sabonis/Haliburton, that's still not exactly a top five core by any means but at least gives you three top 50 players in the league all capable of fulfilling different roles in an offense. Defensively there'd still be some definite issues but there would be issues even if it were just Domas/Hali since neither of those guys is a stopper by any definition of the word.

 

[EIM86]

Which, while very impressive, isn't close to averaging a triple double.

And the thing about that season is that the Pacers really boosted Domantas's usage that season and turned him into the number one option only for things to go completely to hell. Carlisle has shifted their team focus back to the guards this season and the Pacers still look like crap so I'm not saying that's on Sabonis but I'm not sure he's the Lithuanian Jokic Kings fans seem to think he is more than he is a super 3rd/2nd option type like Vlade/Brad Miller were on the Kings (not an insult by any means since both of those guys were all-stars for us).

Trading Fox for him just ends up giving us two super glue guys in Sabonis and Haliburton and essentially just turns us into the Pacers except with Richaun Holmes and Harrison Barnes instead of Myles Turner and Caris Levert.

Now, if the Kings somehow managed to Fox and ran with a core of Fox/Sabonis/Haliburton, that's still not exactly a top five core by any means but at least gives you three top 50 players in the league all capable of fulfilling different roles in an offense. Defensively there'd still be some definite issues but there would be issues even if it were just Domas/Hali since neither of those guys is a stopper by any definition of the word.

I mean that’s pretty close lol

 

[kb02]

Davion being an even worse free throw shooter than Fox doesn’t worry you? A 23 year old gym rat who can’t shoot much of anything yet … is it just a sign of not having touch? Is he magically going to become a passable shooter in his mid-20s despite always being bad to this point? Seems like a very red flag on his shooting potential.

85.7% FT percentage in Dec. His shooting has been ticking up each month.

 

[kb02]

still can’t believe people seriously think we gonna get Simmons/sabonis etc LOL

I think each player is getable. Depends on the price the Kings are willing to pay.

 

[Tetsujin]

Why? Unless you think that Indiana has a too-many-bigs "problem," that needs to be "solved," I don't know what trading their best big for a guard is supposed to do for them, other than recreate Sacramento's backcourt in Indianapolis? I mean, what is Malcolm Brogdon, but a more mature Tyrese Haliburton? And, for what, so Myles Turner can get more touches?

To be fair, I don't think anyone, the Pacers included, has any idea what the Pacers are trying to do at the moment. They have the same record as the Kings and seem intent on trying to satisfy their role playing defensive big man's desire to become a unicorn more than to build around the proven good players they have already.

If I were Kevin Pritchard, I'd be trying to move Turner and Levert more than my actual all-star but for some reason Sabonis is the one getting brought up in trade talks all the time.

If the Kings had the opportunity to grab Myles Turner for Marvin Bagley's expiring and Richaun Holmes or something, I wouldn't say no though.

 

[steelevt]

We’re 1-2 in these last three games and the win was against an incredibly inconsistent Spurs team that struggles to defend the one thing our team is actually good at on offense.
I get what you’re saying but it’s not like the Kings have suddenly turned into the Warriors since Fox went out.

Or even the grizz with Ja out. Now that guys totally dragging the team down. They should trade him for an up and coming big with a super fast double jump

 

[kb02]

I mean that’s pretty close lol

20, 12, 7 would really nice on the Kings.

 

[Tetsujin]

Or even the grizz with Ja out. Now that guys totally dragging the team down. They should trade him for an up and coming big with a super fast double jump

Ja's making pretty much the same amount of money as Tristan Thompson so that's who I'd trade instead. Maybe I'd throw in a conditional second round pick if they twisted my arm. Save Marvin's deal to reel in a real big fish!

 

[kb02]

We’re 1-2 in these last three games and the win was against an incredibly inconsistent Spurs team that struggles to defend the one thing our team is actually good at on offense.
I get what you’re saying but it’s not like the Kings have suddenly turned into the Warriors since Fox went out.

For one, the Kings have missed half the roster the last three games.
For two, it’s how the team has played. Effort on both sides of the court. Ball movement and a joy that hasn’t been there in years.

Lil Magic > Black hole hoops.

 

[gunks]

Why? Unless you think that Indiana has a too-many-bigs "problem," that needs to be "solved," I don't know what trading their best big for a guard is supposed to do for them, other than recreate Sacramento's backcourt in Indianapolis? I mean, what is Malcolm Brogdon, but a more mature Tyrese Haliburton? And, for what, so Myles Turner can get more touches?

Mostly this, loath though I am to admit it to the guy who does the Bigman of the Night thread.

Plus maybe I overvalue Fox.

Plus maybe Vlade was Astral projecting into me when I made that post.

 

[Sluggah]

In the one game together under Christie Hali had 3 steals 3 blocks 8 rebounds 9 assists and 8 points (had a terrible shooting night)…Fox had 28 4 4. I feel like maybe we can give them a couple more games together with Hali’s renewed confidence and Christie‘s increased movement before selling Fox down the river?

 

[EIM86]

In the one game together under Christie Hali had 3 steals 3 blocks 8 rebounds 9 assists and 8 points (had a terrible shooting night)…Fox had 28 4 4. I feel like maybe we can give them a couple more games together with Hali’s renewed confidence and Christie‘s increased movement before selling Fox down the river?

no way bro it’s Simmons For Fox it’s an even trade

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah I hope to see what Doug might get out of Hali and Fox on the floor together before using Fox as a trade chip.
It’s great seeing what Hali can do alone as a lead guard but Fox can score and might just be better suited as our SG.
Moves still need to be made, but I would think a significant upgrade can happen without parting with those two.

Yeah, Doug is a different beast right now strategically, but teams that win make sense on the floor since in the end you're playing a game. Amassing talent and trying to win don't usually coincide unless that amassed talent makes sense.

 

[SacTownKid]

We’re 1-2 in these last three games and the win was against an incredibly inconsistent Spurs team that struggles to defend the one thing our team is actually good at on offense.
I get what you’re saying but it’s not like the Kings have suddenly turned into the Warriors since Fox went out.

And Doug is smart, he's going to what has worked, and keeps going to it, and keeps going to it. Something Walton rarely did. Haliburton has had a boost in confidence under a coach that could be his mirror image as a big, glue guy PG, and his teammates are hitting shots with Buddy exploding at certain points as the off/on gamechanger he's been his whole career. Newness can give you an idea of things but not a conclusion to things. We have to see what happens if and when teams start planning for this particular unit. We saw the Warriors annihilate Tristan in pick and roll and that's going to continue. Holmes being out sucks. We have to see him under DC and unfortunately time might be running out on that since Gentry will be back at some point.

 

[The_Jamal]

Or even the grizz with Ja out. Now that guys totally dragging the team down. They should trade him for an up and coming big with a super fast double jump

Should honestly just swap our utter disappointment 2nd overall picks. Both duds could use a change of scenery

 

[EIM86]

And Doug is smart, he's going to what has worked, and keeps going to it, and keeps going to it. Something Walton rarely did. Haliburton has had a boost in confidence under a coach that could be his mirror image as a big, glue guy PG, and his teammates are hitting shots with Buddy exploding at certain points as the off/on gamechanger he's been his whole career. Newness can give you an idea of things but not a conclusion to things. We have to see what happens if and when teams start planning for this particular unit. We saw the Warriors annihilate Tristan in pick and roll and that's going to continue. Holmes being out sucks. We have to see him under DC and unfortunately time might be running out on that since Gentry will be back at some point.

like how does a first time head coach let alone first season as an assistant understand that “hey if they can’t stop it just keep going back to it”