[Game] Kings @ Warriors, 10/23/2022 5:30pm Pacific, 8:30pm Eastern

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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#1
It's moral victory season! (Seriously though, last year, this team probably crumbles in the 3rd quarter and loses by 25.)

Small Sample Size Theater

Reminders and whatever else
We're still in the first week of the season so here's one more reminder that soliciting or randomly posting links to illegal streams is strictly against the rules on Kingsfans.com. Please. We don't want to get sued. DO NOT POST LINKS TO ILLEGAL STUFF (this also applies to the internet in general).
See more here

It's also still a good time to refresh ourselves on the general forum rules while the season is still young. The most important rule of course remains "Don't be a jerk." If someone's really ticking you off, I'd advise a liberal application of the forum's "ignore" feature.
YoU cAn ReAd MoRe HeRe


Previously On...
Mike Brown won a ring as the head assistant for the Golden State Warriors before moving up I-80 to coach the Kings.


Random Internet Basketball Head Tweet About the Kings of the Night

Award Time
Tony Delk Memorial Award
-Nic Batum. Not a huge night statistically from him but he pulled down the offensive board that effectively ended the game after the Kicks finally got PG to miss a shot.

The CoJo Award - Richaun Holmes with a second consecutive pull. The guy has been a total non-factor on offense while also being unplayably bad on defense. And he can't even blame getting smashed in the face this time.

Mikki Moore - Malik Monk, who took his new contract for being a shooter and promptly decided to be a role playing facilitator instead (this is partially on the shoulders of the guys he's playing with so I'm wondering how he'd look playing off of Fox and Sabonis).

Rafer Alston And-1 - Davion Mitchell took all those Marcus Smart comps to heart and spent all summer pairing terrible iso hero ball and bad shooting with his strong defense over the summer. The dude's a better playmaker than he's show to start the season but it's painful watching him waste possession after possession even if I know he'll eventually get going sooner rather than later.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim - Harrison Barnes apparently aged 20 years over the summer and somehow spent most of the night being both the slowest and weakest player on the court every other possession. Even more shocking that the physical decline is his shot seemingly abandoning him as his three missed threes were compounded by him going 4-7 from the line. Can Sasha come over mid-season?

WTF Moment of the Night- I guess we're doing the "Yogi" "-Ferrell" thing for Keegan now?

Keegan Murray- Keegan Murray

We're Talking Basketball
The good news: Keegan Murray and Kevin Huerter have looked like our second and third best players.

The bad news: This is mostly because our actual second and third best players have spent most of the first two game looking terrible.

It shouldn't be surprising that the Kings are 0-2 when you consider that Domantas Sabonis is currently averaging 12/7/6 on the season and Harrison Barnes is at 8.5/7.5/2 and hasn't made a single three to start the season. Couple that with the bench largely being a non-factor aside from Terence Davis (Just in terms of minutes and role, it's hard to call Keegan a part of the bench), and a 0-2 start is pretty much guaranteed. And yet, these two games were games that the Kings should/could have won were it not for self-inflicted wounds like missed free throws or weird miscues on defense (Richaun Holmes deciding to switch on the perimeter every single time he was even close to the ball comes foremost to mind).

De'Aaron Fox has somehow gotten even better than the 28 point machine he was post-trade, scoring at will from pretty much anywhere on the floor (dude's always been a solid catch and shoot player and the stroke definitely looks smoother beyond the arc) and displaying a renewed commitment to defense that I sorta wish rubbed off on some of his teammates (*cough*Harrison Barnes*cough*). Clearing the clutter and return Fox to primary ball handling duties by moving Tyrese appears to have had the desired effect as far as Fox's production is concerned. It also helps that Kevin Huerter has come out of the gates absolutely unconscious from the perimeter. A 18 and 5 night on nine shots is really good from your third/fourth option off-ball guard and there's nothing about Kevin's nights that seems particularly unrepeatable (seriously, all the guy does is make smart basketball plays and shoot deep balls that barely even touch the rim).

The KZ opener experience probably would be working fine were two of the other starters not in the midst of epic offensive struggles to start the year. PG had 40 points on the night but most of those didn't come against him and, despite the losses, this Kings defense is far more competent than any we've seen since Mike Malone. Until Domas or Barnes get their acts together though, I'm not sure this team can start KZ based on the offensive difficulties alone.

Everyone and their mom has been waxing poetic on how good Keegan looks so I don't really feel like I have anything to add on that front other than to ask: Is this how Celtics fans felt when their team got mixed reactions to drafting Jayson Tatum only for him turn out to be ridiculously good? Totally different players obviously, but the preternatural feel for the game from Keegan is special and his ability to hit from anywhere on the floor and play long and strong on defense really suggests that the "Keegan has a low ceiling" takes may have been a tad premature.

The bench has been an issue to start the year. Malik Monk in particular has struggled to make any sort of impact and people are already calling for Terence Davis to take his place in the rotation (despite TD apparently already being in the rotation as our backup 3). Oddly, the best comparison for Monk's current struggle might be Terence Davis from the start of last year, when he followed up a strong preseason by being so unplayably bad for the first ten or so games of the year that Luke Walton eventually banished him to the end of the bench (only to eventually go back to him because Luke Walton was consistently inconsistent). Shooters go through cold streaks that they generally have to try to shoot through. One problem with Malik right now might be him not shooting enough as Davion turning into Larry Hughes on offense has led to Monk trying to initiate the offense more than he probably should be doing.

Trey Lyles was missing from the rotation against the Clippers and I wonder if we'll see him against the Warriors. With Richaun's complete and total collapse as a basketball player to start the year and Mike Brown's willingness to go small ball, I would not be shocked to see an appearance from Trey Lyles, small ball center.

Despite the practice punch heard 'round the world, the Warriors have largely been performing as they usually do. Steph is averaging 33.5 points across the first two games of the season despite a rough start shooting from the perimeter. Wiggins has looked like the Warriors second best player while Poole has sorta struggled in his first two games of the year (Is he still seeing double from that Draymond haymaker?). Klay's moving a little better than he was last season but he's still not the defender he once was. Draymond is Draymond, that is to say the perfect role player glue guy when he can just get out of his own way.

Much has been made of the Warriors having a bunch of good young players for the future and Wiseman has looked solid in his first action in a full season but none of their young guys seems to have taken "the leap" over the summer, or at the very least shown themselves capable of playing as big a role for the Warriors as Otto Porter did last year.

Old friend DDV has looked solid-ish for the Warriors in the early going but not necessarily so good that I regret losing him in free agency.

Mike Brown knows the Warriors intimately (along with half of his coaching staff) and I wonder how much that is going to come into play. This isn't like football where there are playbooks and secret terminology that teams generally try to keep out of each others' hands but I'm sure there are somethings that the Warriors would prefer their opposing coach didn't know about their schemes and systems. That of course hasn't helped the last two ex-Warrior head coaches the Kings have had beat them but Mike Brown might actually be different.

I'm expecting lots of Warrior bandwagoneers in the stands (though maybe not as much as usual since the Niners are also playing) and tired legs from our guys on the second night of the back to back. But I'm also expecting Keegan Murray. [EDIT: Totally forgot that this is an away game and the Kings will be the ones headed to the Chase Center but the "lots of Warriors fans but they'll probably be distracted by the Niners game" argument still stands.]

Injury Report
Kings-
No one listed.

Warriors-
Patrick Baldwin Jr. - Day-to-day (Accidentally swallowed a thumbtack)


Final Prediction
Third time's the charm! Domas gets his game going against a big man who isn't a 7'1" behemoth from the Balkans. Keegan drops a silent 30 point performance on the Warriors heads without ever once flashing a smile. One of the bench guys finally gets his game going and it opens things up. Mike Brown gets his first Kings win against his old squad. Justice prevails.
Kings 119, Warriors 113
 
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#2
My heart so badly wants not to start 0-3 thay it's telling me the Kings take this one, but my head is struggling to reason exactly how that'll happen. I think it'll require the Warriors to be really sloppy with turnovers and fall in love with the three on an off shooting night.

There's been a lot of bad so far, but the free throws and ease with which opposing players get into the paint are the biggest killers. We have the worst team FT% in the league at 62%. Other than the Bucks at 62.9, the next worst teams are at 70%

Last night, every clipper was getting into the paint at will and able to easily score once there. Be it not staying in front of their man, falling asleep off ball, or the lack of a rim protector, we allow lots of drives with little resistance. Way too many easy baskets.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#4
I hate the Warriors more than any other team in sports. Lakers and Dodgers and Chiefs included.

I’ll be able to watch this one, so hopefully I get a nice surprise.
 
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Kingster

Hall of Famer
#6
There are the Haves - Fox, Heurter, Murray. And then there are the Have Nots:

I noticed in the first quarter of the Clipps game that KZ took away two baskets when he ran right next to Barnes on fast breaks instead of giving him space by going to the corner. He's had enough practice time to know that is just dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I don't want to see that happen again. For all the talk about his defense I haven't seen him make much impact on the defensive end, and certainly not on the offensive end of the floor.

Monk needs to show why the Kings signed him other than to make turnovers. He's been a nothing-burger so far. This team lacks size and he does nothing in that department as a 2G. So if he plays he better start making shots to compensate for his lack of physicallity. I was expecting I would see him running around the floor making baskets off the catch a la Curry and Thompson light, but instead I see a guy that is trying to show off his dribbling skills, which are bad. This reminds me of the old Kings - not knowing their roles. Brown needs to fix this one, pronto. Brown may fix it by giving Monk's minutes to TD. We will see.

Barnes can definitely play better. Part of the reason for his lack of impact is the lack of spacing. See above. He would have had four extra points in the first quarter alone if his team gave him some space to operate.

As far as Holmes is concerned, I thought that the combination of the Halliburton exodus and the new Brown system would dramatically reduce Holmes's effectiveness on this team. Bingo. He's as close to being the Invisible Man as you can get without truly being invisible. I'm skeptical about ever seeing the "old Holmes" again. Unfortunately, his trade value could really suck by the time the trade deadline rolls around. I don't see the harm in awarding Len some minutes. He bothers teams in the paint with his size and he has shown the ability to shoot and make the occasional three.
 
#7
Hope Sabonis has a big game since there’s no Nurk / Zubac type on the roster. Not much more in terms of expectations for this game. Not gonna be surprised if Dray tries to sneak onto the Kings team bus after to escape the Warriors
 
#8
We really don’t have a ton of creators/passers on this team and it’s really hurting us when Fox and/or Sabonis are out.
  • Monk gets into trouble initiating the offense and is best playing off playmakers
  • Davis is a 3&D wing and is best playing off playmakers
  • Huerter is best moving off the ball, curling off screens, spacing the floor, etc but has the ability as a secondary creator/playmaker
  • Barnes wasn’t really an efficient option in DAL as a #1 option and is best playing off playmakers. Not really great at setting up teammates.
  • Murray is best playing off playmakers (if he improves his handle and passing, maybe this changes)
  • Okpala needs playmakers
  • Lyles is best playing off playmakers
  • Holmes needs playmakers to set him up in the PnR
That leaves Mitchell. He’s not currently a good shooter so he’s not really going to be a strong player to put next to playmakers but he does have solid passing, handles, and agility/quickness to be someone who can be a 6th man type. I think it would go a long way to have at least one more playmaker on this team vs. relying solely on Mitchell (and an ill used Monk) to initiate the offense and setup teammates.

I think Alec Burks or Kyle Anderson would have been a much better free agent target for McNair vs. signing Monk considering both have solid handles, passing, and vision for their positions. Part of me wonders if McNair signed Monk with the expectation that he was going to start but then the Huerter trade became available and sort of derailed that vision.
 
#9
There are the Haves - Fox, Heurter, Murray. And then there are the Have Nots:

I noticed in the first quarter of the Clipps game that KZ took away two baskets when he ran right next to Barnes on fast breaks instead of giving him space by going to the corner. He's had enough practice time to know that is just dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I don't want to see that happen again. For all the talk about his defense I haven't seen him make much impact on the defensive end, and certainly not on the offensive end of the floor.

Monk needs to show why the Kings signed him other than to make turnovers. He's been a nothing-burger so far. This team lacks size and he does nothing in that department as a 2G. So if he plays he better start making shots to compensate for his lack of physicallity. I was expecting I would see him running around the floor making baskets off the catch a la Curry and Thompson light, but instead I see a guy that is trying to show off his dribbling skills, which are bad. This reminds me of the old Kings - not knowing their roles. Brown needs to fix this one, pronto. Brown may fix it by giving Monk's minutes to TD. We will see.

Barnes can definitely play better. Part of the reason for his lack of impact is the lack of spacing. See above. He would have had four extra points in the first quarter alone if his team gave him some space to operate.

As far as Holmes is concerned, I thought that the combination of the Halliburton exodus and the new Brown system would dramatically reduce Holmes's effectiveness on this team. Bingo. He's as close to being the Invisible Man as you can get without truly being invisible. I'm skeptical about ever seeing the "old Holmes" again. Unfortunately, his trade value could really suck by the time the trade deadline rolls around. I don't see the harm in awarding Len some minutes. He bothers teams in the paint with his size and he has shown the ability to shoot and make the occasional three.
Good point about Holmes and Brown. Not sure he will ever have a play ran to get him the short range push shot that gave him one of the highest shooting percentages in the league, before he got bashed in the eye twice. Without a ball handler who is good with the pick and roll lob, his effectiveness goes way down. Fox and Mitchell don't seem to match with him well at all.

They need to hope that a team that is good in pick and roll sees that Holmes doesn't fit with this team and they bet on him having a return to his pre eye injury play. I wonder if Indiana would take a shot. Haliburton would probably have him back playing well right away
 
#10
Okay, I try my best not to be a grammar or vocabulary nazi since I’m a bit of disaster in that area, but I’m starting to feel like the universe is gaslighting me.

Kayte has said this numerous times on the broadcast and now Tetsujin has, but I’m pretty sure it should be “Huerter is unconscionable from deep;“ the root being ‘conscience’ not ‘conscious.’

If Huerter was unconscious behind the 3pt line, I think we’d have some big problems.

Edit: But maybe I’m wrong? Language is weird.
 
#11
Clippers thread closed so posting here re: free throws.

If you try your absolute best at your job and get punished when you don't succeed to your boss's expectation of perfection just what is your response? Resentment, fear, lack of caring, all of those? That is no way to get positive results but that is what missing a free throw in practice gets on the Kings...punishment of running the lines. Educationally, it is indefensible although the immediate thought may be that it requires performance under pressure.

Rather, when trying hard and occasionally failing the tactic is to teach (change behavior), encourage, and practice. Punishment has no place.

When I taught school for 30 years and basketball for a few if someone was really trying at any task I was 100% on his/her side and made that clear in or out of class. For example, basketball free throws were practiced at the end of regular practice. The tactic was that you had to make X-number of free throws in a row and then off to the showers-practice over. Miss one and start the count over. With six stations the good shooters were quickly gone and the ones needing help were left for concentrated instruction. Those remaining had more practice while all players had the pressure of the last basket or two while tired. All were rewarded for their performance by achieving success eventually. Most players actually enjoyed the challenge and the adrenaline boost of the drill.

While I am not foolish enough to criticize Mike Brown's coaching ability, I am learned enough to offer minor advice on human nature and teaching techniques.

I know: TLDR
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#12
Okay, I try my best not to be a grammar or vocabulary nazi since I’m a bit of disaster in that area, but I’m starting to feel like the universe is gaslighting me.

Kayte has said this numerous times on the broadcast and now Tetsujin has, but I’m pretty sure it should be “Huerter is unconscionable from deep;“ the root being ‘conscience’ not ‘conscious.’

If Huerter was unconscious behind the 3pt line, I think we’d have some big problems.

Edit: But maybe I’m wrong? Language is weird.
I always thought the phrase was based more on someone playing so well that they’ve ascended into a trance-like state.
 
#13
Okay, I try my best not to be a grammar or vocabulary nazi since I’m a bit of disaster in that area, but I’m starting to feel like the universe is gaslighting me.

Kayte has said this numerous times on the broadcast and now Tetsujin has, but I’m pretty sure it should be “Huerter is unconscionable from deep;“ the root being ‘conscience’ not ‘conscious.’

If Huerter was unconscious behind the 3pt line, I think we’d have some big problems.

Edit: But maybe I’m wrong? Language is weird.
That would be "Nazi". ;)
 
#16
Gotta give these guys more time. We've had 4-1 starts in the past, only to fizzle out right after. With new faces and a new staff, i think we'll see gradual improvement across the board. I'm hoping to see more from Sabonis and Okpala on the offensive end because we not play 3 on 5 in terms of guys that put pressure on the opposition.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#17
Hornets are about to start their year 2-1 without Lamelo on the back of Kelly Oubre having a ridiculous efficient night. Sometimes three or four game stretches just happen. Just gotta weather the storm.
 
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#18
This is a tough game being so short on turn around time but this is going to say a lot about this team. After a game like last night you better be chomping at the bit to get back and put everything back on course.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#20
Glad I checked because I didn’t realize it was 5:30 until right now.

I’ll just get to be salty a little earlier as the Warriors run us.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#29
The disconcerting thing about Chase Center is that it pretty much looks like G1C but 75% less interesting and with all the cool things taken out of it.
 
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