Kings waive Tolliver (merged)
- Thread starter Kingsfan23
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I like all of these suggestions. I do kinda suspect the Jazz will match any offer on Ingles though. Same for JaMychal Green and Memphis who's due for a big raise as well, Green is SO underrated by the casual fans, pretty much any team with a hole at PF should be lining up to pay him this summer IMO.
Troy Williams and Poythress are great suggestions too, I like both of them, if the Kings were to use the 10th pick on OG Anunoby they'd both be rendered redundant though.
Poythress is actually a great lockerroom player and genuinely a great kid, also he's extremely bright.
With Troy Williams if they feel he's gonna shoot it well thats his in, I'd definitely explore trading for Mo Harkless from Portland first though, if he can be had on the low in exchange for cap relief he's more versatile and ready to contribute.
Troy Williams and Poythress are great suggestions too, I like both of them, if the Kings were to use the 10th pick on OG Anunoby they'd both be rendered redundant though.
Poythress is actually a great lockerroom player and genuinely a great kid, also he's extremely bright.
With Troy Williams if they feel he's gonna shoot it well thats his in, I'd definitely explore trading for Mo Harkless from Portland first though, if he can be had on the low in exchange for cap relief he's more versatile and ready to contribute.
That's my bet. No superstar is coming to the Kings. That's totally off the table. At very best, Porter is 50-50 on coming to the Kings. They probably make him a max offer, but they aren't holding their breath. The last scenario you mentioned makes much more sense for a young rebuilding team. It's a way to literally buy assets. IMO, I lean toward the Brandon Knight scenario because he's only 25 years old and he's proven to be a good player, just not in Phoenix. His best days are probably ahead of him if he can get to the right team in the right role.
I think Baja has mentioned trading Kings' #5 for Phoenix's #4 and taking Knight off their hands. That could insure getting either Tatum or Fox, or if lucky, getting one of the "big three" ahead of them. Or, it could be the first step in trading up into the top 3. I don't know the particulars. I just know that Knight fits nicely into what the Kings need in terms of his position and age, and could give the Suns' some cap room to go out and get what they need. Seems like it's worth a discussion.
Well, Portland got themselves into a bit of salary cap trouble with their signings. Barring some sort of trade in which they reduce salary and including their first-round picks, they're going to be at about $138M (and even if they trade all their first rounders for nothing they'd be at $133M), and the luxury tax level is going to be about $121M. In the scenario where they hold on to all their draft picks they would be paying about $35M in tax. Even if they dump them all they'd still pay about $21M in tax.
So Crabbe costs them $19M this year, but if they trade him for peanuts they save at least $40M this year alone, and barring some sort of salary dump they will probably be in tax trouble for at least three years, not just this one.
The Blazers desperately need to dump salary. They'd certainly prefer to dump Turner's salary, but he's not going to get a lot of interest. Crabbe may get a bit more, and would drop them safely under the tax (especially if you consider that they would have to send some of those picks to drop his salary). They probably don't want to send off Harkless, who has a much smaller contract, but "beggars can't be choosers" and they might have little choice but to dump Harkless for some partial tax relief.
So Crabbe costs them $19M this year, but if they trade him for peanuts they save at least $40M this year alone, and barring some sort of salary dump they will probably be in tax trouble for at least three years, not just this one.
The Blazers desperately need to dump salary. They'd certainly prefer to dump Turner's salary, but he's not going to get a lot of interest. Crabbe may get a bit more, and would drop them safely under the tax (especially if you consider that they would have to send some of those picks to drop his salary). They probably don't want to send off Harkless, who has a much smaller contract, but "beggars can't be choosers" and they might have little choice but to dump Harkless for some partial tax relief.
Portland is probably the most desperate. But they are going to want to offload some ugly stuff - over $60M of Crabbe's contract after his trade kicker, over $53M in Evan Turner's contract, on the order of $30M each for Meyers Leonard and Maurice Harkless. Harkless is the best contract there, and I really think they can probably find a taker - if they want - who will give them cap relief without requiring a pick back. But they'll likely look to unload the other contracts first. The problem is that these contracts are so big, and three years long each, that it's really hard to come up with a fair value in terms of draft picks. Given what the current estimates of draft pick value are, it would take 5-6 good picks to really equal out the $53M of more or less dead money in Turner's contract. It's going to be hard to make a deal like that.
The Wizards are another team who might need some help in order to match an offer to Porter. They might want to offload Mahinmi (about $50M/3) and he's at least got some value so they wouldn't have to give a ton of picks.
I could actually see the Thunder dumping off Singler to get some elbow room, but since his contract is reasonable ($10M/2) I can't see them including a pick.
There is a bit of speculation that the Spurs go after Paul, and if they get him they probably have to dump the last year ($15.5M) of Parker's contract. Parker's health would determine whether they have to attach a first to it (probably) but their future picks aren't really worth anything, because they'll undoubtedly be in the high 20s.
Portland is the obvious target, but they've got some real stinkburger contracts outside of Harkless. I'd go for an Afflalo/Harkless swap straight up (Portland could waive Afflalo), but that has to happen by one day after the draft (Afflalo's guarantee date) and Portland will probably still be trying to find a way to dump other contracts. So I kind of doubt that happens. But if they ask us to take on, say, Turner, they'd need to send an absolute treasure trove back or we'd be getting the short end.
The Wizards are another team who might need some help in order to match an offer to Porter. They might want to offload Mahinmi (about $50M/3) and he's at least got some value so they wouldn't have to give a ton of picks.
I could actually see the Thunder dumping off Singler to get some elbow room, but since his contract is reasonable ($10M/2) I can't see them including a pick.
There is a bit of speculation that the Spurs go after Paul, and if they get him they probably have to dump the last year ($15.5M) of Parker's contract. Parker's health would determine whether they have to attach a first to it (probably) but their future picks aren't really worth anything, because they'll undoubtedly be in the high 20s.
Portland is the obvious target, but they've got some real stinkburger contracts outside of Harkless. I'd go for an Afflalo/Harkless swap straight up (Portland could waive Afflalo), but that has to happen by one day after the draft (Afflalo's guarantee date) and Portland will probably still be trying to find a way to dump other contracts. So I kind of doubt that happens. But if they ask us to take on, say, Turner, they'd need to send an absolute treasure trove back or we'd be getting the short end.
You could be right about Ingles, but I think it depends on how much a team is willing to offer him. The Jazz have 60 mil in committed salaries. 67.5 mil if they pick up Diaw's option. Both Haywood and Hill are unrestricted freeagents. If you can resign Haywood for 25 mil and Hill for 14 mil, which may be low once on the market, that will take them over the cap. The following year they have Favors and Joe Johnson both becoming freeagents. I don't think you get Ingles for less than 12 mil a year. That would almost push them into the luxury tax, and leave them with little wiggle room the following year. So I don't think its a given that they'll match. but, very possible. I know they like him a lot. Great locker room guy as well.
I think Portland makes the salary dump trade by draft night. This would pose the best chance and best value they have in dumping salary, with 3 first round picks that night. After draft night, the picks become less valuable, because the team trading with them, won't be able to tell them who they want them to pick.
Therefore, I propose taking Moe Harkless, Meyers Leonard and the #20 pick for Aaron Aflallo and his small buyout. I think this get them under the Luxury tax with one quick trade.
The Kings get a young veteran small forward and a draft pick to try and move up from #10. Leonard is serviceable as a third center.
Portland unloads $20 million next year and $60+ mil in salary over 3 years in one trade, thus preserving their future assets. Portland gets out of luxury tax hell.
Therefore, I propose taking Moe Harkless, Meyers Leonard and the #20 pick for Aaron Aflallo and his small buyout. I think this get them under the Luxury tax with one quick trade.
The Kings get a young veteran small forward and a draft pick to try and move up from #10. Leonard is serviceable as a third center.
Portland unloads $20 million next year and $60+ mil in salary over 3 years in one trade, thus preserving their future assets. Portland gets out of luxury tax hell.
Yeah, right now Portland is in salary cap hell financially and in no man's land talent wise. And with their cap situation, there is no way to improve their team other than adding three more rookies to the team, which in the short term probably won't be much help. I think I read that because of double dipping, which means being in the luxury cap tax area two years in a row, if they retain their picks and make no change, they'll be paying around 44 mil in penalty's on top of the 138 mil in committed salaries. That means they'll be forking out over 180 mil in total expense for a team that has zero chance of winning a championship. Trust me, they're in no position to bargain on what it might cost them to shed salary.
Another team with little wiggle room, if they want to keep the current team are the Clippers. The major difference is that three of their core players are all unrestricted free agents. Paul, Griffin, and Reddick. It's unlikely they can, or will keep all three, and the wise thing to do, may be to just keep one, and go into a partial rebuild. Of course they have an owner that's willing to pay the luxury tax, but that's not really the point. They had no chance of winning a championship this year, and if they bring everyone back, I doubt they'll have a chance next year. So what are you spending all that money on?
When you stop and think about it, no one in the west is going to beat the Warriors for the next few years unless they get hit with a serious injury bug. So if your building a young team, and you have picks and a lot of capspace, your in a pretty good position for the future. If you do it right, about the time your young team is ready to compete with the other top teams, the Warriors will have some age on them, and may be on their way down. Of course that assuming that the Warriors can't keep adding new blood to the franchise to stay on top.
Another team with little wiggle room, if they want to keep the current team are the Clippers. The major difference is that three of their core players are all unrestricted free agents. Paul, Griffin, and Reddick. It's unlikely they can, or will keep all three, and the wise thing to do, may be to just keep one, and go into a partial rebuild. Of course they have an owner that's willing to pay the luxury tax, but that's not really the point. They had no chance of winning a championship this year, and if they bring everyone back, I doubt they'll have a chance next year. So what are you spending all that money on?
When you stop and think about it, no one in the west is going to beat the Warriors for the next few years unless they get hit with a serious injury bug. So if your building a young team, and you have picks and a lot of capspace, your in a pretty good position for the future. If you do it right, about the time your young team is ready to compete with the other top teams, the Warriors will have some age on them, and may be on their way down. Of course that assuming that the Warriors can't keep adding new blood to the franchise to stay on top.
You are right in principle. The question is whether Portland is going to desperately hold out to dump their more expensive contracts, or if they are going to concede dumping their halfway-useful to useful contracts.
First off, this doesn't quite work under the cap rules. However, we can throw in Langston Galloway and make it work. That's a win for us anyway. Assuming Galloway doesn't opt out, Portland only saves about $12.5M in salary, but that gets them back to the tax level, so it's a big savings.
For us, we pick up about $13M/$21M/$22M for those three years, which seems kind of steep for Harkless/Leonard unless Harkless really pans out. If Portland looks to make that deal, I might hold out for #15 and some other goodies. But it saves Portland something like $55M AND luxury tax on top of that, potentially for three years depending on what other adds/drops they can make. Let's put it this way - if they don't get rid of anybody, they're in the tax three straight years guaranteed, and that's just the players they have now plus min salary guys to fill out the roster. Can they afford to pay the repeater tax for the 8 seed every year? So it's not inconceivable that we might be able to, say, get their 2019 pick to replace the one we sent to the Sixers on top of #15.
Depending on what we can get Portland to give back, I'd be tempted to do that. But I'd really want #15 AND their 2019. It all depends on how desperate they are. I don't think anybody wants to take Turner off their hands. And outside of maybe the Nets, who signed Crabbe to that silly offer sheet last year, I find it hard to imagine anybody will go for Crabbe either. So Portland may in fact be motivated to send off Harkless/Leonard. We'll see!
First off, this doesn't quite work under the cap rules. However, we can throw in Langston Galloway and make it work. That's a win for us anyway. Assuming Galloway doesn't opt out, Portland only saves about $12.5M in salary, but that gets them back to the tax level, so it's a big savings.
For us, we pick up about $13M/$21M/$22M for those three years, which seems kind of steep for Harkless/Leonard unless Harkless really pans out. If Portland looks to make that deal, I might hold out for #15 and some other goodies. But it saves Portland something like $55M AND luxury tax on top of that, potentially for three years depending on what other adds/drops they can make. Let's put it this way - if they don't get rid of anybody, they're in the tax three straight years guaranteed, and that's just the players they have now plus min salary guys to fill out the roster. Can they afford to pay the repeater tax for the 8 seed every year? So it's not inconceivable that we might be able to, say, get their 2019 pick to replace the one we sent to the Sixers on top of #15.
Depending on what we can get Portland to give back, I'd be tempted to do that. But I'd really want #15 AND their 2019. It all depends on how desperate they are. I don't think anybody wants to take Turner off their hands. And outside of maybe the Nets, who signed Crabbe to that silly offer sheet last year, I find it hard to imagine anybody will go for Crabbe either. So Portland may in fact be motivated to send off Harkless/Leonard. We'll see!
First, I don't think you have to take both players. As I said in the previous post, Portland isn't in the drivers seat on this deal. Your doing them a giant favor taking either of those players off their hands. And, I want the 15th pick, not the 20th. If they don't want to do that deal, then let them go find someone else to deal with. I'll give them Philly's phone number.
In theory, I would love to get back multiple 1st round picks or higher picks for the salary dump....
But, the problem is that a lot of teams have cap space to absorb Portland's bad contracts. I think they will go with the lowest bidder or whoever demands the least in return for their salary dump.
I guess it would be a game of who blinks first, but we need to reach the salary floor regardless. Also, I think the players we get in my trade suggestion, Harkless and Leonard, would actually have use in our rotation.
I actually think that Portland would view including Moe Harkless more as a trade sweetener than a salary dump.
But, the problem is that a lot of teams have cap space to absorb Portland's bad contracts. I think they will go with the lowest bidder or whoever demands the least in return for their salary dump.
I guess it would be a game of who blinks first, but we need to reach the salary floor regardless. Also, I think the players we get in my trade suggestion, Harkless and Leonard, would actually have use in our rotation.
I actually think that Portland would view including Moe Harkless more as a trade sweetener than a salary dump.
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Question, since we will be way under the salary cap, do we need to trade back equal salary to Portland in a Portland salary dump or can we just take back Harkless, Leonard and picks for Afflalo?
If Portland doesn't need to take back equal salary from us, then we probably could get back more assets or multiple picks (2017 #15 and a 2019 1st) in this salary dump.
If Portland need to take back equal salary, then I think our leverage or demands for compensation would be less, because a lot of teams can do the same.
If Portland doesn't need to take back equal salary from us, then we probably could get back more assets or multiple picks (2017 #15 and a 2019 1st) in this salary dump.
If Portland need to take back equal salary, then I think our leverage or demands for compensation would be less, because a lot of teams can do the same.
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If the trade is a draft-day trade, then the 2016-2017 cap numbers apply, and we are over the cap. So there are equal salary requirements.
Obviously those rules will not apply after July 1st, when we will be far under the cap, but the draft will also be over by then. Such a deal would have to be agreed to in advance (so that Portland could select the player(s) we want and then consummated after the 2017-2018 season has technically begun.
As far as Afflalo goes, his contract is useful because he is only $1.5M guaranteed on a $12.5M contract, so there's a "free" $11M to be had. The catch is that the team option on the contract must be decided on the day after the draft. So it would appear that either 1) we will deal Afflalo before/during the draft, so another team can waive him, or 2) We will waive Afflalo the day after the draft. He won't be around to be a part of a 2017-2018 season trade (which is when we have the cap space to absorb contracts without giving back salary).
Obviously those rules will not apply after July 1st, when we will be far under the cap, but the draft will also be over by then. Such a deal would have to be agreed to in advance (so that Portland could select the player(s) we want and then consummated after the 2017-2018 season has technically begun.
As far as Afflalo goes, his contract is useful because he is only $1.5M guaranteed on a $12.5M contract, so there's a "free" $11M to be had. The catch is that the team option on the contract must be decided on the day after the draft. So it would appear that either 1) we will deal Afflalo before/during the draft, so another team can waive him, or 2) We will waive Afflalo the day after the draft. He won't be around to be a part of a 2017-2018 season trade (which is when we have the cap space to absorb contracts without giving back salary).
So, in this case, it may be better to trade Afflalo in a separate deal to another team that needs salary cap relief and acquire more assets or picks with a trade, i.e Afflalo for a salary dump to San Antonio (Parker's contract) for their 1st round pick and D. Murray or Kyle Anderson.
We may be able to get a better return if we do a straight salary dump with Portland, if they don't need to take back any salary in a trade with us. We should ask for multiple 1st round picks, say #15 and their 2019 1st round picks for a Harkless and Leonard salary dump
We may be able to get a better return if we do a straight salary dump with Portland, if they don't need to take back any salary in a trade with us. We should ask for multiple 1st round picks, say #15 and their 2019 1st round picks for a Harkless and Leonard salary dump