Kings waive Tolliver (merged)

Why do they want to get rid of Crabbe? He was the hot new thing last summer and it looked like his numbers were similar if not a bit better this year.
With salary of $19,332,500 for next season (not including the trade kicker) I am not sure that it's a great investment. Just for comparison sake, C.J. is due to make $23,962,573 next season and Dame is due $26,153,057.

The value for Crabbe is just not there IMHO. Especially when you take into account the luxury tax implications and I suspect Portland's willingness to re-sign Nurkic at some point.
 
I think Portland makes the salary dump trade by draft night. This would pose the best chance and best value they have in dumping salary, with 3 first round picks that night. After draft night, the picks become less valuable, because the team trading with them, won't be able to tell them who they want them to pick.

Therefore, I propose taking Moe Harkless, Meyers Leonard and the #20 pick for Aaron Aflallo and his small buyout. I think this get them under the Luxury tax with one quick trade.

The Kings get a young veteran small forward and a draft pick to try and move up from #10. Leonard is serviceable as a third center.

Portland unloads $20 million next year and $60+ mil in salary over 3 years in one trade, thus preserving their future assets. Portland gets out of luxury tax hell.
giving them too much for their situation. they're in a world of hurt and we need to squeeze more out of our assets. if not, hold tight for a better deal. we'd be tying up 2 roster spots & 20m just for a #20 pick? they'd have to cough up the 15 at the minimum to take on 2 lengthy contracts.
 
In theory, I would love to get back multiple 1st round picks or higher picks for the salary dump....

But, the problem is that a lot of teams have cap space to absorb Portland's bad contracts. I think they will go with the lowest bidder or whoever demands the least in return for their salary dump.

I guess it would be a game of who blinks first, but we need to reach the salary floor regardless. Also, I think the players we get in my trade suggestion, Harkless and Leonard, would actually have use in our rotation.

I actually think that Portland would view including Moe Harkless more as a trade sweetener than a salary dump.
well let them go shop. we are acting desperate in your scenario there. we're taking on 2 large lengthy contracts for a #20 pick? vlade is that you behind that screen name? someone call ken catanella asap.

whoever was the genius behind signing those contracts w/ small buyouts knew how to position themselves to b players

you can still sign a player or two with the same type of low buyout or on a one year deal to reach the floor. that player will essentially be an expiring contract if its a 1 year deal. trade deadline? someone need to get under the cap?
 
I'd definitely be targeting Portlands 2019 pick in this salary dump trade. It would be good to get back into the first round of that draft and there's a chance that the pick could be fairly decent. With the situation their in at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a lottery pick.

I'd do Harkless, Leonard, #20 + '19 First rounder for AA
 
giving them too much for their situation. they're in a world of hurt and we need to squeeze more out of our assets. if not, hold tight for a better deal. we'd be tying up 2 roster spots & 20m just for a #20 pick? they'd have to cough up the 15 at the minimum to take on 2 lengthy contracts.
I would definitely want the #15, but it depends on how Portland and we view Moe Harkless.

Harkless is not a terrible contract and he is a pretty good player with upside. If Portland and we view him as a sweetener rather than a salary dump in this situation, then a team may not demand as much in picks. In fact, I think Moe Harkless would be our starting small forward on opening night, because Coach Joeger likes vets in the starting lineup.

If we view Harkless as a rotation player, which I do, then essentially you are taking Meyers Leonard's contract salary dump (about $10mil a year for 3 years) for Moe Harkless and a 1st round pick. And even with Leonard's contract size, it is not as bad as taking Portland's other toxic contracts like Turner and Crabbe's.

But, I would definitely try for the #15 and a 2019 1st rounder, just not sure if Portland would agree to that. And don't forget, there are a lot of other teams that have cap space this summer.
 
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giving them too much for their situation. they're in a world of hurt and we need to squeeze more out of our assets. if not, hold tight for a better deal. we'd be tying up 2 roster spots & 20m just for a #20 pick? they'd have to cough up the 15 at the minimum to take on 2 lengthy contracts.
No, Portland declines that deal IMO. That 20th pick is a really nice trade chip, it's no throw in. I think many teams will line up to beat that offer.
 
Vivek has the attention span of a 6 year old.

We have to be good for the new arena. I don't care about the assets we have. Absolutely playoffs first year in Golden One, maybe last year of Sleep Train.

We are smarter that everyone else, big data, position less basketball, basketball 3.0. We're going to be players in free agency. We can make that happen in Sacramento. We can.

Pace pace pace. And three's lots of threes.

Cousins is two years out from walk year and we aren't getting the traction we thought we would in free agency. Let's go for broke -- 76ers trade and sign Wes and Rondo! That will get us to the playoffs and woo Cousins to stay.

Basketball 1.0. Beloved former player as GM, less data, old school baby.

Sure the league is going small, but when everybody zigs we zag. Centers, lots of centers. And the grit and grind coach. Let's sign vets to make another push for the playoffs.

Actually, we've blowing it up. Young players, surrounded by high character guys. Multiple picks, slow rebuild, let's do this the right way. And more pace and threes again.

Two stabs in a deep draft, that's totally the way to go. Oh, I really like Fox ... what if we went down to one pick this year to get him? Speaking of trades .... oh, you know what would be like Curry and Klay ... Fultz and Buddy!!! What do you think it would take beyond 5 and 10 to get the 1 pick. Can we trade a first before 2021? I mean, Boston likes getting pick swaps and we love to give those up. Get them on the phone!

Young players surrounded by a few high character vets to manage the locker room and teach good habits. Ohhhh, what if we cut Toliver ... you think we could sign somebody good in free agency? Maybe we can speed up this rebuild we've been doing for all of three months.

__________

The Maloofs ran out of money and then ran the franchise into the ground ... but they knew how to otherwise run a team. Vivek is a raging dumpster fire.
 
We have two top 10 picks coming in, most likely Bogdan and we have been linked as possibly going after Milos too, which makes sense given all the Serbian connections.

While the roster rules are being tweaked Tolliver is not a guy who can be shipped off to D-League so it makes sense that he is one of the first casualties. There are other players likely to move or be waived as well, and given our cap flexibility I think we might even try to buy another draft pick this year given there should be guys 10-20 that could also contribute right now.

While I am critical of the way things went down with Cousins, so far I have no complaints in how the aftermath is shaking out. We've continued beefing up the front office and I trust they have plans that aren't gambling big on free agency, especially since that clearly didn't work for us in either of the past two seasons.
 
I'm pretty sure that wasn't actually his real twitter account. None of that is on the verified Anthony Tolliver account. I doubt getting waived was a huge surprise to him, and he signed the contract with the team option set for his birthday. I liked him a lot and would love him to come back, but the cap space is a valuable asset that had to be captured for the short term. If we can't offload the cap space for draft picks then we can always bring him back.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member

I'm pretty sure that wasn't actually his real twitter account. None of that is on the verified Anthony Tolliver account. I doubt getting waived was a huge surprise to him, and he signed the contract with the team option set for his birthday. I liked him a lot and would love him to come back, but the cap space is a valuable asset that had to be captured for the short term. If we can't offload the cap space for draft picks then we can always bring him back.
THIS!!!

I follow Anthony Tolliver. His account is NOT under "Anthony Lamar Tolliver"... and that's not the right profile picture. Look for the blue checkmark. If it's not there, chances are it's either a fake account or dummy screen grab.

ANTHONY TOLLIVER DID NOT MAKE THAT TWEET RESPONSE.
 
Vivek has the attention span of a 6 year old.

We have to be good for the new arena. I don't care about the assets we have. Absolutely playoffs first year in Golden One, maybe last year of Sleep Train.

We are smarter that everyone else, big data, position less basketball, basketball 3.0. We're going to be players in free agency. We can make that happen in Sacramento. We can.

Pace pace pace. And three's lots of threes.

Cousins is two years out from walk year and we aren't getting the traction we thought we would in free agency. Let's go for broke -- 76ers trade and sign Wes and Rondo! That will get us to the playoffs and woo Cousins to stay.

Basketball 1.0. Beloved former player as GM, less data, old school baby.

Young players surrounded by a few high character vets to manage the locker room and teach good habits. Ohhhh, what if we cut Toliver ... you think we could sign somebody good in free agency? Maybe we can speed up this rebuild we've been doing for all of three months.
(Edited so the system would accept my post.)
__________

The Maloofs ran out of money and then ran the franchise into the ground ... but they knew how to otherwise run a team. Vivek is a raging dumpster fire.
.
I don't LIKE this. Furthermore, I don't agree with the picture you have painted nor the indictment of Vivek. We differ.
 



THIS!!!

I follow Anthony Tolliver. His account is NOT under "Anthony Lamar Tolliver"... and that's not the right profile picture. Look for the blue checkmark. If it's not there, chances are it's either a fake account or dummy screen grab.

ANTHONY TOLLIVER DID NOT MAKE THAT TWEET RESPONSE.
It's his Facebook account, not twitter
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
It's his Facebook account, not twitter
Hrm. Oops.

I still don't think Tolliver made that response. It's not who he is. If you look at his Facebook account, you don't see sour grapes or anything like that. You see scripture an positive comments. And, for the revord, both his Twitter and Facebook accounts still show him as "Power forward for the Sacramento Kings". I think it's a fake, and I'll remain convincef it's a fake until/unless I see the actual post and not a screen grab.
 
I can't see him being bitter either. I think initially the Kings overpaid him in the first place just as they did with Afflalo. They gave both these players a bigger pay day than any other team ever would have at this point. They got a premium for their services. Then again, they did the same thing with Barnes and he seemed a tad bit jilted.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
I can't see him being bitter either. I think initially the Kings overpaid him in the first place just as they did with Afflalo. They gave both these players a bigger pay day than any other team ever would have at this point. They got a premium for their services. Then again, they did the same thing with Barnes and he seemed a tad bit jilted.
Totally different scenario with Matt Barnes IMHO.
 
I can't see him being bitter either. I think initially the Kings overpaid him in the first place just as they did with Afflalo. They gave both these players a bigger pay day than any other team ever would have at this point. They got a premium for their services. Then again, they did the same thing with Barnes and he seemed a tad bit jilted.
Whether he is or isn't, he shouldn't be. He got a chance to showcase what he has to offer with the Kings and he probably doesn't figure into our future. They did him a solid, both in terms of what they offered him last year and giving him a chance to move on at higher value.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Whether he is or isn't, he shouldn't be. He got a chance to showcase what he has to offer with the Kings and he probably doesn't figure into our future. They did him a solid, both in terms of what they offered him last year and giving him a chance to move on at higher value.
I think - no, I'm SURE - Anthony Tolliver is grateful for what he has earned and has been given. If you follow him on social media, you can get a pretty good idea of his character.
 
Well outside of social media the whole issue still looks weird.
The Kings were very big on culture and establishing the right ways. It was pretty much their figleaf for screwing up just another season.
The three guys I linked to this culture and play the right way thing were Temple, KK and Tolliver. You saw them constantly engaged with the young guys and they gave their all everytime they got minutes.
Now the Kings took the first opportunity to get rid of one of their "positive culture" guys.
There may be reasons like wanting another roster spot for upcoming trade talks. But it may be just another small hint, that culture is a thing the Kings like to talk about, but have difficulties actually living it.
Anyways - I wish Tolliver nothing but the best.

Btw.: With Evans, Lawson, DC, Ben as free agents, Galloway (player option), Gay (player option) and Afflalo as a likely trade candidate - is a roster spot really worth waiving one of your presumed leaders and role models for the armada of young guys you aquired?
 
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Btw.: With Evans, Lawson, DC, Ben as free agents, Galloway (player option), Gay (player option) and Afflalo as a likely trade candidate - is a roster spot really worth waiving one of your presumed leaders and role models for the armada of young guys you aquired?
Depends on what moves are being planned. We have 4 picks from last year, 4 this year (assuming BB comes over), WCS, GT, and KK. Assuming Galloway opts in, that's 12 roster spots (hope I haven't missed anyone).

If we acquire picks for some bad contract(s), that's at least 2 more roster spots (one for the contract, and one for the pick). So, unless we are trading away more players than we are receiving, we are pretty close to a full roster, with rookies playing both 1 and 3 (assuming we pick both positions in the draft). We'd most likely like to add a veteran, at least at the 1. So, yes, the roster spot has value.

That doesn't necessarily mean it was a smart move. However, I don't think it was a cost saving move, as is being projected, since we'll have trouble hitting the floor.

As for Evans, Lawson, etc., they are free agents. Unless we plan to resign any of them, there is nothing for us to really do about them (other than potentially releasing their cap hold. This is something beyond my understanding and needs someone like Capt to explain). We needed to make a decision on Tolliver. The management obviously thought that the roster spot had more value than his leadership.

Finally, I think trading away any of our youngsters right now would not be a smart move. We are obviously not in play for a star, that could justify giving up on a young player. Most of our kids have little value around the league so far. Another year, with lot of playing time can help them establish themselves (the reverse is also possible of course). Right now, we'll get virtually nothing of value for them. So, unless it's a rare scenario of a clear win, holding on to our guys might be the best short term move, in which case again, roster spot has value.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
As for Evans, Lawson, etc., they are free agents. Unless we plan to resign any of them, there is nothing for us to really do about them (other than potentially releasing their cap hold. This is something beyond my understanding and needs someone like Capt to explain). We needed to make a decision on Tolliver. The management obviously thought that the roster spot had more value than his leadership.
Cap holds aren't too complicated - especially if you don't really plan on bringing a player back. You can just renounce the cap hold, but usually the team waits until the last possible minute to do so. Here's a quick breakdown of our salary commitments next year, as of right now:

Active players:
8.4 Koufos
8.0 Temple
5.4 Galloway (assumed opt-in)
4.6 Fifth pick cap hold
3.7 Cauley-Stein
3.7 Hield
3.0 Tenth pick cap hold
2.3 Papagiannis
1.5 Richardson
1.3 Labissiere
$41.9M for 10 players

Dead money:
2.1 Barnes stretch
2.0 Tolliver guaranteed portion
1.5 Afflalo guaranteed portion (assumed)
0.5 Caron Butler stretch
$6.1M

Cap holds:
20.0 Gay
16.0 Evans
10.3 McLemore
9.9 Collison
1.5 Lawson
1.4 Bogdanovic (Not sure, this may go away because he is no longer beholden to the rookie scale)
$59.1M

Total: $107.1M
But obviously, most of those cap holds are completely expendable whenever we want. We may well sign Collison or Lawson but likely not both, but I see $46M in cap holds up top there that's going to be jettisoned whenever convenient.