Kings vs Warriors (Preseason) Oct. 7, 2013 @ 7:30 PST - Happy Birthday Vivek!

[Kingsfan23]

I'm interested in seeing Greivis but I'm not putting up with atrocious D, I'll say it from the get go.. I read some less than flattering stats over the summer, and I'd like to see him as a non outright liability if he's going to be offered another contract next summer

 

[morsatun]

I'm interested in seeing Greivis but I'm not putting up with atrocious D, I'll say it from the get go.. I read some less than flattering stats over the summer, and I'd like to see him as a non outright liability if he's going to be offered another contract next summer

He will be an outright liability in defense no doubt. Now the question is would his passing ability and floor vision be good enough to offset his defensive limitations? That would basically depend on whether he can improve his 3 point percentage, his jump shot percentage and reduce his hero ball tendencies. If he improves these 3 aspects, and learns to use his size to go from an atrocious defender to just a bad one, then his plus minus may be good enough for a contract extension

 

[dude12]

I'm interested in seeing Greivis but I'm not putting up with atrocious D, I'll say it from the get go.. I read some less than flattering stats over the summer, and I'd like to see him as a non outright liability if he's going to be offered another contract next summer

IT's defense is a liability. I know a few posters think it may not be but when I watch, he doesn't stop penetration. Just doesn't. If Greivis is the same, then perhaps we are looking at Ray as PG in the long term or some yet to be acquired or drafted guy.

I think that if with Greivis he helps us offensively and Cuz and Ben play better with him in the lineup, we can live with his defense.

I'd like to see GV and Ben and Luc along with PPat and Cuz play together...

 

[steelevt]

Personally, I like to see nicknames evolve naturally instead of forcing them. Ben's name is 3 letters long and one syllable. M16 is 3 letters long and THREE syllables. Kinda dumb IMHO.

i dont really get your criticism for someone liking a nickname. by your logic no nickname should be longer than a persons first name? no hustlin husky, no big nasty, no white chocolate, no black mamba, no superman, no z-bo, no cp3 the list goes on of nicknames being more syllables than a persons first name. most people refer to players by their last names when the first name is common to avoid confusion, so m16 is easier than mclemore. until he changes his number to 17 and the nickname makes no sense, i dont mind seeing that name on this site or StR and will probably use it as well when typing (i highly doubt i would ever call him that when speaking).

 

[VF21]

I said it was my personal opinion. I still remember all the nicknames people came up with for Kevin Martin. M16 just sounds contrived. What's wrong with just calling him Ben?

To each his/her own.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Personally, I like to see nicknames evolve naturally instead of forcing them. Ben's name is 3 letters long and one syllable. M16 is 3 letters long and THREE syllables. Kinda dumb IMHO.

+134, lol. I do hate this M16 stuff myself

 

[FCKingsfan]

After going to the game I am very surprised that a lot of people are so impressed with McCallum. It was his first game so I am trying to not jump to any conclusions, but the guy was struggling. He wasted the clock almost every possession by dribbling around pointlessly, and his assists were panicked bailouts rather than intentional passes. He did have some flashes of good D which were inspiring, but overall he looked like a rookie who is on the cusp of being NBA ready. I honestly do not expect him to play much once the season starts; he is just not the floor general we need and I do not think he will be for some time. Hopefully he proves me wrong!

 

[miltonap]

After going to the game I am very surprised that a lot of people are so impressed with McCallum. It was his first game so I am trying to not jump to any conclusions, but the guy was struggling. He wasted the clock almost every possession by dribbling around pointlessly, and his assists were panicked bailouts rather than intentional passes. He did have some flashes of good D which were inspiring, but overall he looked like a rookie who is on the cusp of being NBA ready. I honestly do not expect him to play much once the season starts; he is just not the floor general we need and I do not think he will be for some time. Hopefully he proves me wrong!

I agree. I liked him a lot at first but you can tell he has some sort of tunnel vision when he handles the ball. He is not a good enough distributor like a true pg should be and I don't know if he ever will be. The offense struggled with him on the court, it was not very fluid.

 

[Bricklayer]

I said it was my personal opinion. I still remember all the nicknames people came up with for Kevin Martin. M16 just sounds contrived. What's wrong with just calling him Ben?

To each his/her own.

You have just been spoiled by The Flying Platypus.

M16 has the obvious reference point/history of AK47 to make it into a potentially catchy one.

Less obviously if he only ends up shooting 38% or some such.

 

[PurpleHaze]

You have just been spoiled by The Flying Platypus.

M16 has the obvious reference point/history of AK47 to make it into a potentially catchy one.

Less obviously if he only ends up shooting 38% or some such.

M16 more accurate with/without scope than AK47 - M16 less reliable than AK47 (jamming, etc.) I have experience with both semi-automatic legal rifles over the years, owning version of M16 plus firing friends AK47 on occasion.

I think Ben McLemore should have final say if he's OK with M16, otherwise I prefer just simple BMac for now. Not big on forced nicknames and do think they should evolve naturally overtime.

 

[King Baller]

M16 more accurate with/without scope than AK47 - M16 less reliable than AK47 (jamming, etc.) I have experience with both semi-automatic legal rifles over the years, owning version of M16 plus firing friends AK47 on occasion.

I think Ben McLemore should have final say if he's OK with M16, otherwise I prefer just simple BMac for now. Not big on forced nicknames and do think they should evolve naturally overtime.

The AR platform (M16) is much more accurate than the AK. But I digress, this is a basketball forum

KB

 

[King Baller]

After going to the game I am very surprised that a lot of people are so impressed with McCallum. It was his first game so I am trying to not jump to any conclusions, but the guy was struggling. He wasted the clock almost every possession by dribbling around pointlessly, and his assists were panicked bailouts rather than intentional passes. He did have some flashes of good D which were inspiring, but overall he looked like a rookie who is on the cusp of being NBA ready. I honestly do not expect him to play much once the season starts; he is just not the floor general we need and I do not think he will be for some time. Hopefully he proves me wrong!

The different perceptions we fans draw from this first preseason game are interesting. With 5 assists in a backup role in his first NBA action I thought Ray Mac played great. He had 5 assists and ONE turn over. Compare that to the starter. I expect to see Ray Mac get his minutes because of his defense.

KB

 

[King Baller]

GSW had the 13th ranked defense last year. They added an elite defensive wing in Iguodala. Bogut is also an elite defender whose contribution last year was limited until the playoffs. So I'm keeping this game in perspective and concede that the W's are pretty darn good.

KB

 

[dude12]

I agree. I liked him a lot at first but you can tell he has some sort of tunnel vision when he handles the ball. He is not a good enough distributor like a true pg should be and I don't know if he ever will be. The offense struggled with him on the court, it was not very fluid.

You don't know if he will ever be a true PG based on his 1st preseason outing against a very good defender in Toney Douglass or.......

 

[dude12]

A

GSW had the 13th ranked defense last year. They added an elite defensive wing in Iguodala. Bogut is also an elite defender whose contribution last year was limited until the playoffs. So I'm keeping this game in perspective and concede that the W's are pretty darn good.

KB

Agree........the Warriors have a really nice team.....could go deeper in the playoffs this year. Not only did they add an elite D guy in Iggy, but I can see Douglass getting solid minutes to shut down a guy.....good situational defender to go with Draymond Green off the bench.

 

[Chupacabra]

While I tend to agree that McCallum didn't impress to much I think we're getting ahead of ourselves when we say things like " I don't know if he'll ever be able to run an offense". This was one of the first professional level games that hes ever played in. It seemed like Douglas was all overhim whenever he had the ball. Douglas looked like Avery Bradley out there. Lets have a tiny bit of patience.

 

[MizzouKing]

Well in the beginning he was facing up, but his shot wasn't falling. I'am surprised he didn't try putting the ball on the floor from out there. However, Bogut seemed willing to let Cuz shoot from out there until he proved he was hitting them. I know its easy to pick on Cousins inside game, but Bogut is a load for anyone inside. As for someone saying he needs to pass out of the double team and quit trying to draw a foul, well, he did draw quite a few fouls, and he did look for cutters, of which there were none. Sometimes what a player does on the floor is dictated by what the defense gives you. It appears the Warriors were willing to let Cousins shoot, but not post up.

My biggest DMC concern was when I'd see him jacking up shots near the top of the key. I know it's a healthy balancing act for the coaches to purge this tendency out of him, but we have plenty of guys who can shoot from downtown...I like to see Cousins play from areas of the court that others cannot.

 

[MizzouKing]

To start with, I'm happy to see this much interest in a preseason game. It shows how rabid our fan base is. However, it was just a preseason game with some new players, a new coach, and a new system. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. I could sit here and pound the keys, nit picking every player and expounding on what needs to be done to improve the team, but I'd be wasting yours and my time. To draw any conclusions from the first preseason game of the year is equivalent to shooting arrows in the air and hoping they hit a target.

If I were to take note of anything, its that our team defense was more intense than I've seen it for some time. Which is a good thing, if it can be sustained and improved as we move forward. Yes, it did have some breakdowns at times, but all in all, it was much better. For at least one exhibition game, McLemore proved he's a better defender than Thornton, and to be honest, looked better on offense at times. However, we all know what Thornton can do, and one game does not a season make. If I had to pick out one player that impressed me the most, and I have to admit I was paying more attention to him, it was McCallum. 5 assists in 18 minutes of play, along with a couple of steals, and and only 1 turnover. IT's 6 assists would have been more impressive if not for his 6 turnovers. I would have liked to have seen McCallum guarding Curry a bit more, because he did a much better job than IT. Unfortunately he was in the game when Curry was on the bench for the most part.

Cousins defense was pretty good in this game, but he looked out of sorts on the offensive side of the ball. He got in early foul trouble, but to his credit, he kept his mouth shut, and if he continues to behave properly, they'll eventually stop calling those ticky tacky fouls on him. There's no doubt that Bogut was giving him problems, but then Bogut gives most other centers problems. On the whole, I thought our offense looked like it needed some oiling in a few places. There was a lot of passing, a good thing, and a lot of players moving without the ball, a good thing, but seldom did either lead to an easy basket. It probably has something to do with most of training camp being spent on defense, which in the end, is a good thing.

So my only conclusion is, that I was happy to watch the Kings play a basketball game again, and I can't wait till the next one, which is being broadcast on one of the NBA channels if you have the package, which I do.

Great post! And after the game I see some of the sports journalists were getting caught up in the game being a "loss"...it's preseason! Malone is feeling out lineups he likely wouldn't use in a game that mattered, which I assume is why he didn't respond in kind when GS sent their starters back in the 4th. And while I'd like to think there'd be a psychological advantage to winning a preseason game, I seem to recall Mussleman teams did quite well in those (there's a PowerPoint about it somewhere). Winning's better than losing, but a preseason game just is what it is.

 

[Kingster]

I only remember one of his blocks. The come from behind where he blocked Tony Douglas. Blocked it up and off the backboard, and a player from golden state put it back uncontested. That was a bit frustrating to me. Two times we stopped guys during 2-1 breaks with one single player but the rest of the team didn't hustle back and they scored on the second chance. I hope they get that sorted out because it is so disheartening to stop a 2 on 1 and then have no one else come back and help.

McLemore blocked two shots of the breakaway layup variety. On one of the shots he caught up with Tony Douglas by putting in the afterburner jet he's got in his motor. McLemore has some major speed. I doubt there are very many players in the league faster than he is. When I look at him it looks like he could be in the Wallace/LBJ class of speed.

 

[The_Jamal]

While I tend to agree that McCallum didn't impress to much I think we're getting ahead of ourselves when we say things like " I don't know if he'll ever be able to run an offense". This was one of the first professional level games that hes ever played in. It seemed like Douglas was all overhim whenever he had the ball. Douglas looked like Avery Bradley out there. Lets have a tiny bit of patience.

I thought McCallum handled Douglas defense just fine. And ANY contribution out of a 2nd round pick is a bonus. Sadly, I was more impressed with his PG play in his first preseason game than I ever have been with Jimmer's PG play in 2 years.

To me, he looked like a typical back-up PG. Which is pretty darn good for good for his first pro action

 

[dude12]

My biggest DMC concern was when I'd see him jacking up shots near the top of the key. I know it's a healthy balancing act for the coaches to purge this tendency out of him, but we have plenty of guys who can shoot from downtown...I like to see Cousins play from areas of the court that others cannot.

It would help tremendously if Cuz had a lost post game.....he needs better post moves and game

 

[Gary]

From our current roster the most logical rotation is

PG: Vasquez/IT/McCallum
SG: Thornton/McLemore/Jimmer
SF: Mbah/Salmons/Outlaw
PF: PPat/Landry/Hayes
C: Cuz/JT/Hayes

That sounds about right, although I would probably put JT above PPat but have JT slide to C and PPat come in the game early if Cousins gets into foul trouble.

 

[Kingster]

It would help tremendously if Cuz had a lost post game.....he needs better post moves and game

Is this a Freudian slip? Or are we now going to call it Cousins lost post game?

 

[Glenn]

Is this a Fredian slip? Or are we now going to call it Cousins lost post game?

Looks like a classical Freudian slip to me.

 

[dude12]

Is this a Fredian slip? Or are we now going to call it Cousins lost post game?

Lol

 

[VF21]

I agree. I liked him a lot at first but you can tell he has some sort of tunnel vision when he handles the ball. He is not a good enough distributor like a true pg should be and I don't know if he ever will be. The offense struggled with him on the court, it was not very fluid.

I mean no offense whatsoever, but I find these comments interesting considering you're a big fan of Jimmer's...

 

[bajaden]

My problem is not with the wow factor. Sure he had assists, but on nearly every possession in the 2nd half, he dribbled the ball around until less than 8 secs on the shoot clock, never looking to pass the ball once, only pounding the ball looking for a way to get to the basket. No facilitation. No ball movement. He also got 2 or 3 of his assists that way because he eventually passed it off with only several secs on the shoot clock to PPat or Outlaw, who hit 17-18 jumpers. Like I said, first exhibition game, not writing him off, just saying there was nothing to me that suggested he had the skills of a guard who sees the floor and looks for open people moving to the basket; instead, I saw him coming off of 12-15 sec of dribbling the ball and finally--after being denied with little time left--looking to set someone else up on the perimeter. In other words, it looked a lot like last year, so again not trying to put all the blame on the rookie, just wasn't impressed by his ability to embody what I think we truly need in a good point guard, which is why I'm holding hope in GV as heir apparent to the PG throne.

On last small rebuttal. He ran the pick and roll better than anyone else on the team. He was the only PG that passed the ball to McLemore on the wing. I do have the advantage of seeing him play in college, and he's not a PG that looks to score. He's a pass first PG who will take advantage of an opening if its there, or he feels the team needs a basket, but PG 3.0 is to drive into the lane and break down the defense. I happen to be a results guy, and the fact is, he had more assists in a shorter period of time than anyone else in the game, and only turned the ball over once. It may not have been beautiful in your eyes, but the results are the results.

I think maybe the greater question is, do you or does everyone really want a pass first PG? Because in order to be a high assist man, you have to have the ball in your hands a lot, and you have to dribble a lot to create off the dribble for your teammates. Not to me, if he dribbles for 18 seconds of the shot clock, and it ends up with Cousins, or McLemore or anyone else on the team scoring a basket, I'm fine with that. On the other hand, if he dribbles for 18 seconds of the shot clock and ends up throwing up a wild shot with little time left, then I'm not alright with that.

I don't want to over dramatize after just one preseason game. Lets wait and see how it all plays out and then revisit this discussion.

 

[The_Jamal]

On last small rebuttal. He ran the pick and roll better than anyone else on the team. He was the only PG that passed the ball to McLemore on the wing. I do have the advantage of seeing him play in college, and he's not a PG that looks to score. He's a pass first PG who will take advantage of an opening if its there, or he feels the team needs a basket, but PG 3.0 is to drive into the lane and break down the defense. I happen to be a results guy, and the fact is, he had more assists in a shorter period of time than anyone else in the game, and only turned the ball over once. It may not have been beautiful in your eyes, but the results are the results.

I think maybe the greater question is, do you or does everyone really want a pass first PG? Because in order to be a high assist man, you have to have the ball in your hands a lot, and you have to dribble a lot to create off the dribble for your teammates. Not to me, if he dribbles for 18 seconds of the shot clock, and it ends up with Cousins, or McLemore or anyone else on the team scoring a basket, I'm fine with that. On the other hand, if he dribbles for 18 seconds of the shot clock and ends up throwing up a wild shot with little time left, then I'm not alright with that.

I don't want to over dramatize after just one preseason game. Lets wait and see how it all plays out and then revisit this discussion.

Yea, I think when certain guys get labeled "pass first" that it's implied that they don't control a lot of ball. When in reality, Nash, Cp3, etc are just as ball-dominant as the Harden/Kobe/Wade/LeBron, just in a different facet. Nash is famous for keeping his dribble alive and finding cuters or open shots. The key is you have to have excellent off-ball movement and players willing to play off-ball.

 

[KingMilz]

In regards to DMC's post game, imo if he just simplified what he does he would be so much better and more effective the problem is every time he catches the ball he catches wait and waits instead of just catching and going making it harder to double/body him. If he just catches and goes more often even if he gets cut off he can use his half hooks which last season when used were money but he seens to lack confidence in, he needs to play more instinctual rather than reactive when he's in the post. He needs to play in the post similar to how he does it facing up with quick short burst rather than slow lumbering approach.

With his fluidity/size I don't care who it is if he makes simple quick moves he would be so much better. Maybe I'm overrating his post up ability but it just seems to me it's a few simple minor adjustments and he would be fantastic down low maybe.

 

[Kingster]

In regards to DMC's post game, imo if he just simplified what he does he would be so much better and more effective the problem is every time he catches the ball he catches wait and waits instead of just catching and going making it harder to double/body him. If he just catches and goes more often even if he gets cut off he can use his half hooks which last season when used were money but he seens to lack confidence in, he needs to play more instinctual rather than reactive when he's in the post. He needs to play in the post similar to how he does it facing up with quick short burst rather than slow lumbering approach.

With his fluidity/size I don't care who it is if he makes simple quick moves he would be so much better. Maybe I'm overrating his post up ability but it just seems to me it's a few simple minor adjustments and he would be fantastic down low maybe.

I agree with this analysis. Also, I'd go a step or two further. Not only is it preferable for Cousins to "catch and go" in the block, it's also preferable to have him move through the paint, hit him on the move, and have him instantly shoot or pass (See SA and Tim Duncan). Moreover, what Shaq has said about Howard applies to Cousins: Get your butt down the floor on offense before the opposing center, plant it in the paint before the opposing center can set up, get the pass, and nobody is going to stop you.