[Game] Kings vs. Suns, 11/08/21 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
- Status
I would think the percentages tend to greatly favor the team up 3 with under :10 to go regardless what the opposition does.
Are there detailed numbers available from a wide sample size of teams opting for a quick 2 when time permits all while having a time out available versus those opting for 3?
You may not agree with the decision but it’s far from unprecedented. There was plenty of time to employ the strategy.
Unless there is overwhelming statistical analysis demonstrating it to be far lower success rate given the circumstances the KINGS faced, I don’t see it fair to overly criticize.
Are there detailed numbers available from a wide sample size of teams opting for a quick 2 when time permits all while having a time out available versus those opting for 3?
You may not agree with the decision but it’s far from unprecedented. There was plenty of time to employ the strategy.
Unless there is overwhelming statistical analysis demonstrating it to be far lower success rate given the circumstances the KINGS faced, I don’t see it fair to overly criticize.
True, but if Walton does what he did at the start of the 3rd strategically then they better start coming up with better excuses now because it's going to be another year of 2 steps forward, 2 back. haha. Almost every team this season has been without a major player so it all goes both ways. These teams missing one of their top 3 probably is no longer in the discussion of hardest schedule.
I would agree that 11 games is a sufficient sample to worry about what might be wrong with Fox right now and whether it's merely a slump or the beginning of something more serious. But I don't think it's large enough to count as regression yet. He's had 5 seasons of continual progression before this. If these are still his numbers at the end of the season, then I will agree that he has regressed. Right now I think his production is not that far off from his usual numbers if he just fixes his shooting percentages. The eye test is more of a concern but I'm on record already since the first week of the Luke Walton era in believing that his offensive "system" is broken and it's a miracle Fox was able to be as effective as he was last year with a half dozen plays and a license to "just wing it" when those plays inevitably go nowhere.
I also meant to mention the drastic change in how shooting fouls are called in my last post, which is impacting a lot of the league's top scorers. The league has changed the ball and changed their rules this off-season with regards to how they're officiating contact on ball handlers. It's going to take primary ballhandlers some time to feel out those changes and find new ways to gain an edge when driving to the basket. That's not really a problem if your goal is just to bomb away from way behind the arc like Buddy... which is evidently what the league office thinks basketball is supposed to be.
I also meant to mention the drastic change in how shooting fouls are called in my last post, which is impacting a lot of the league's top scorers. The league has changed the ball and changed their rules this off-season with regards to how they're officiating contact on ball handlers. It's going to take primary ballhandlers some time to feel out those changes and find new ways to gain an edge when driving to the basket. That's not really a problem if your goal is just to bomb away from way behind the arc like Buddy... which is evidently what the league office thinks basketball is supposed to be.
Yes, a defensive player has a right to be on the floor. But just like when the charge/block takes place near the restricted area, the defender must be set and not re-adjusting position when the contact occurs.
Booker re-adjusted his position and was not set when the contact occurred. I don’t think he was set long enough even before he re-adjusted his right leg to better slide in front of HB after he made his first Euro step.
Regardless, we can debate about it all day. The call was at least close enough that the on-floor call should have stood. That’s the larger point. If it had been called a charge on the floor, I’d have much less of a problem with the call standing for reasons already stated.
They simply should not be overturning subjective calls with another subjective call. It needs to be 100% undeniable or the call on the floor stands. This was not 100% undeniable.
Booker re-adjusted his position and was not set when the contact occurred. I don’t think he was set long enough even before he re-adjusted his right leg to better slide in front of HB after he made his first Euro step.
Regardless, we can debate about it all day. The call was at least close enough that the on-floor call should have stood. That’s the larger point. If it had been called a charge on the floor, I’d have much less of a problem with the call standing for reasons already stated.
They simply should not be overturning subjective calls with another subjective call. It needs to be 100% undeniable or the call on the floor stands. This was not 100% undeniable.
Yeah, I'm not good enough with numbers to even try to look that up. The thing to keep in mind though is that the Suns have two of their best free throw shooters in the league on their team (and Crowder is currently at 90% on the year as well) and Booker most definitely wasn't going to miss two in a row again.
Extending the game in the last minute isn't a bad plan per se but with less than ten seconds on the clock it just seems like trying to use a garden hose to put out a forest fire.
Extending the game in the last minute isn't a bad plan per se but with less than ten seconds on the clock it just seems like trying to use a garden hose to put out a forest fire.
Last edited:
I agree, percentage wise Booker wasn’t likely to miss again. But percentage wise he shouldn’t have missed the two that he did miss. He very well could have missed at least one again. Same goes for any other shooter. Strange things happen under pressure.
There was 7.8 on the clock as Fox held the ball to inbound it. There was 5.8 on the clock after throwing the
late pass that Metu fumbled out of bounds.
It’s pretty easy to conclude less time would have elapsed had Fox executed the play properly and hit Metu as he became open going directly to the basket. I’ve re-watched the play numerous times. The play was there to be had rather easily. But Fox looked away for some reason then came back to it too late.
Point being, there would have been far more than 2 seconds (or less) remaining. Likely as many as 5-6 seconds assuming the KINGS were able to foul quickly. Even if there was only 3-4 that’s still plenty of time when inbounding from half court.
There was 7.8 on the clock as Fox held the ball to inbound it. There was 5.8 on the clock after throwing the
late pass that Metu fumbled out of bounds.
It’s pretty easy to conclude less time would have elapsed had Fox executed the play properly and hit Metu as he became open going directly to the basket. I’ve re-watched the play numerous times. The play was there to be had rather easily. But Fox looked away for some reason then came back to it too late.
Point being, there would have been far more than 2 seconds (or less) remaining. Likely as many as 5-6 seconds assuming the KINGS were able to foul quickly. Even if there was only 3-4 that’s still plenty of time when inbounding from half court.
Yeah we'll see. I think the only 2 games where we were clearly the better team on paper was the Pelicans games, which we won. People were clowning the Pacers, but they're gonna make the playoffs, especially with Carlisle at the helm. And yeah the Suns without Ayton, but still it's the 2nd night of a B-B to take on the western champs.
What's going to dictate our success is how we beat up these bad teams. If you can hover around .500 against good teams (like we did) and really beat up the bottom feeders, you probably have a good chance to make the playoffs. 4-game road trips are tough, but these are all teams we'll likely be favored against. Need to be 3-1 to really keep the playoff momentum going
What's going to dictate our success is how we beat up these bad teams. If you can hover around .500 against good teams (like we did) and really beat up the bottom feeders, you probably have a good chance to make the playoffs. 4-game road trips are tough, but these are all teams we'll likely be favored against. Need to be 3-1 to really keep the playoff momentum going
The idea of trading for Ben Simmons has grown on me since the season started. The impact that adding a 6'10 first team all-defense swiss army knife defender would have for this team would probably propel us to a mid-seed and maybe even home court advantage in the first round. That's only if we also keep Davion as our point of attack defender though and don't completely fall apart offensively by subtracting too many scorers and that's why I think it would have to be Halliburton rather than Fox going back to Philadelphia as the key piece. Obviously I would hate to lose Tyrese but you can't build a team around Ben Simmons and not have a go-to scorer like Fox next to him. And if you're adding Simmons you probably want him at least co-handling the ball as well which makes at least one of our ballhandling guards redundant. I don't think it's a slam dunk move for the same reasons you listed -- Simmons collapsed in the playoffs last year and he seems to be doing everything he can to avoid accepting responsibility for his own failings and working to get better. So is it a buy-low move or just a dumb one? You only make that move if you think he'll accept responsibility for his own weaknesses once he gets out of a situation which has become toxic, and that's anyone's guess.
Amongst my list of complaints about Walton, drawing up plays out of a timeout has not *historically* been one of them. In fact, I think he has shown himself to be pretty good at that aspect of his job. The last two games? Not so much, but execution has at least played a role.
The play call yesterday that should have resulted in an easy lob for Metu actually worked, at least to the extent that Metu was wide open. Fox didn't get the pass in on time (execution), and going for two in that situation is a questionable but not necessarily wrong call (strategy), but the play design got a man wide open at the bucket.
The play call yesterday that should have resulted in an easy lob for Metu actually worked, at least to the extent that Metu was wide open. Fox didn't get the pass in on time (execution), and going for two in that situation is a questionable but not necessarily wrong call (strategy), but the play design got a man wide open at the bucket.
Yeah, just like Joerger, that's one of the few areas you can't make a complaint about. The issue is overthinking when it's not required. When thinking becomes a key part of a tight game Walton is usually pretty good. I'd say just behind Joerger when compared to every single coach since the Kings have been a dumpster fire.
Yeah I agree Holmes and Simmons aren’t a great match though you can run a Simmons/Holmes pick and role and play Hali off the ball. Also Mitchell like Fox can take other players off the dribble.
But you have options you don’t have otherwise. You can run with Simmons as a small ball 5 surrounded by shooters. Now your small ball lineup: Simmons, Barnes, Buddy, Hali, Mitchell has some punch.
Metu can play more as can Len both of who can shoot outside and they are surrounded by elite defenders.
But you have options you don’t have otherwise. You can run with Simmons as a small ball 5 surrounded by shooters. Now your small ball lineup: Simmons, Barnes, Buddy, Hali, Mitchell has some punch.
Metu can play more as can Len both of who can shoot outside and they are surrounded by elite defenders.
Like Luke, I went back to the tape to watch that out of bounds play. If Metu just stays where he was which was at the hoop, that pass is delivered to where he was but he started to gain ground on the pass and it made it appear high…..to be clear, not a perfect pass but if Metu stayed right by the basket, that pass was there.
- Status