[Game] Kings vs. Raptors - Wednesday, Nov. 7 - 7:00 PM PDT

What will be the result?


  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
The Raptors have become a pretty great team. They respond well to an attempted run by their opponents.

The Kings played hard. Their defense has improved a lot. They have turned made baskets into a fast break opportunities. There is a lot to like. Against Toronto we got out rebounded 53-31. That is the game right there. If everything else is even, then the team with 22 more opportunities is going to win. The fast pace makes the Kings seem flat footed at times. The 3 ball creates some long rebounds that are hard to capture sometimes. The glaring weakness by the Kings last night was defensive rebounds. They need to get better at putting a body on someone and boxing out better. It is fundamental basketball. It has to be obvious to Joerger.

The Raptors had guys that secured 14, 11, 10 and 7 rebounds. Willie had the most for the Kings with 8. No one else got more than 4. Unacceptable, poor, crappy play. If I am coaching this team we working on rebounding and making foul shots. The Kings offense is running on 8 cylinders. There was some great ball movement to go with the pace. The Kings have some athletic big men, that need to get serious about rebounding. It will translate to wins because most of the other pieces are already in place.
 
I was lucky enough to be court side last night right next to the Raptors bench. I have to say, I have brand new respect for Kyle Lowry. I've never seen a player so actively engaged in the game before. Every time he went to the bench he would always sit at the very last seat and ask for an ipad and copy of the advanced stats and start analyzing both. He'd then call players over to show them things he was noticing and talk about what they need to do better. He was doing this with everyone. Kawhi, Danny Green, Siakam, etc. The photo below was of him doing this and then talking with Kawhi. I can't even imagine how beneficial it'd be to have someone with this kind of leadership on the Kings.

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Kingster

Hall of Famer
The Kings are most like the Warriors or Nash Suns, or are trying to be that. Those teams were notoriously weak on the boards for stretches and didn't mess it up trying to become great rebounding teams. You are what you are at some point. A lot of those offensive boards come from long 3's. The Kings are around 23rd in defensive rebounding percentage, so they aren't the worst and if they shored up those long 3's they'd be closer to average which is livable if they want to be a top 5 pace team.
I think in the future the Kings will address the rebounding problem. I don't think it will mess things up.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
In the games I've seen so far this year that reach in being called here and not called there is going to cause more fights. Players hate ticky tack calls when they are followed up with a quick whistle on anything physical.
Agree. I was was wondering at one point whether Bjelica was going to clobber somebody. I was getting so frustrated with the officiating I was almost hoping he would!:p
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Well my Bjelica theory is holding up (without seeing the game).......the team needs all hands on deck against good teams. Unfortunately yet another substandard night for Bjelica. The problem now could be he was overachieving for a stretch. Team desperately needs or him to right his offense.
Well I think some of it is that other teams are now focusing on him defensively, and some of it is him passing up some open shots to drive into traffic. I have no idea why players do that, especially when they happen to be good three pt shooters. It's up to him to figure it out, and I feel confident he will. He's not a rookie so I think he'll bounce back.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
the Kings are not emulating the Warriors or Suns. They have plenty of big bodies to throw out there but some of the players are simply not ready to bang against the grown men the NBA has to offer so their size and length is irrelevant when they play them. The Kings need to rebound as a unit if they want to have success on the glass, that's all they can do at this point in my opinion.
Your absolutely correct. Joerger alluded to that very thing in an interview when he said that the Kings were a little light in the rear and that until the young guys matured, and got stronger, they would have a problem matching up on certain nights against some of the bigger, stronger, and more experienced teams. It's just the nature of the beast with a team as young as the Kings. So your correct when you say it will have to be a team effort.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Agree. I was was wondering at one point whether Bjelica was going to clobber somebody. I was getting so frustrated with the officiating I was almost hoping he would!:p
You know, I don't care as long as they call it the same way on both ends of the court, but when the Raptors have gone to the line 22 times, and the Kings have gone to the line 6 times, I get a wee bit suspicious. In the Bucks game, it looked like that if you stared too hard at Antetokoumnpo, they blew the whistle. Yeah, the Kings finally started getting some calls in the 2nd half, but by that time we were down 30 pt's. Who the hell cares at that point.
 
Really hoping to go 2-1 to close this 5 game stretch out. Said at the beginning I’d be thrilled to go 2-3
If the Kings play the Wolves and Lakers like they did the Raps, it's gonna result in 2 wins.

You gotta worry about our guys playing down to the level of their opponents (zing! Take that, Lebron!), which is an issue with young teams, but I think Fox and Co are gonna come out hungry for wins.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
If the Kings play the Wolves and Lakers like they did the Raps, it's gonna result in 2 wins.
On paper, the Timberwolves should mash Sacramento, but the Kings can (and probably will) beat Minnesota, because the Kings play hard, and Minnesota's alleged two "best" players are soft, like a baby's bottom.
 
the Kings are not emulating the Warriors or Suns. They have plenty of big bodies to throw out there but some of the players are simply not ready to bang against the grown men the NBA has to offer so their size and length is irrelevant when they play them. The Kings need to rebound as a unit if they want to have success on the glass, that's all they can do at this point in my opinion.

In terms of style they most certainly are and of course they do, it's the same thing everyone said those teams needed to do as well. The Suns had similar bigs throughout their time as well who were a crop of athletes and shooters for the most part. Regardless, they are the same in their preferred identity as they basically want to lead the league in pace. There are certain disadvantages when doing that and one is typically on the boards.
 
New NBA rules hurting players like Bjelly. He doesn't have the feet to defend in space. Needs his hands. Gets called for any touch.

Generally, I tend to not blame officiating. It's a part of the game and the calls even out. Last night was different. That jump ball call against WCS was just killer--blatantly wrong and a momentum killer. The Kings were simply not getting the same calls, especially few times when players were getting bumped and pushed down low.

Mason and Jackson both were on the bench in the 2h. Good. They deserved it. Jackson disappeared from physicality. Mason, once again, became a ball stopper and thought he was a 6'6 scoring guard. Yogi, please.

I like Troy Williams. Brings a physicality that Jackson does not show or forgets way toooooooo often.

With Shump and Williams, there's a lil less of a need for perimeter defense, but we need more consistent outside shooting. Bjelly hits two 3s and Kings convert a few more FTs and the game is closer (by 1 or 2 points). Efficiency is the larger issue right now.

Kosta was horrible on both sides of the ball last night. He misses more bunnies than any 7 footer should ever miss. WCS and Bags needs to play more together. And where's Giles?
It's helping some and hurting others. That Denver game they let the Nuggets swipe at all times. The Bucks too. In the games I've watched around the league it's almost like the officials head in with the understanding that certain teams get a pass.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
On paper Jimmy Butler/TT coaching drama hasn't completely spoiled the squad tho?
I don't see any indication that there's any drama between Butler and Thibodeau. And the only player on the team that seems definitely spoiled by Butler's presence is Towns. Whom, as has been mentioned, is SAWFT.
 
I don't see any indication that there's any drama between Butler and Thibodeau. And the only player on the team that seems definitely spoiled by Butler's presence is Towns. Whom, as has been mentioned, is SAWFT.
Has anybody's stock fallen faster in the NBA than Wiggins and Towns? Two years ago these guys were being talked about as some sort of dynamic duo and future of the league (much like Enzo and Cass). Here we are two years later and both are in a freefall. Wiggins appears completely destroyed in terms of confidence and reaching his ceiling. Would be very difficult to even trade him now, he's essentially a lost cause. Towns still appears salvageable and can maybe still get his career back on track but in a league where youth and potential rules the day......he better get his act together quick.
 
I don't see any indication that there's any drama between Butler and Thibodeau. And the only player on the team that seems definitely spoiled by Butler's presence is Towns. Whom, as has been mentioned, is SAWFT.
To be clear I meant drama both have injected. Butler with his trade demand and Thibodeau by allegedly losing the locker room, refusing to deal with Butler because his coach and GM duties are at odds and pretty much being a lousy GM in general. If Butler and TT are otherwise on the same page I don't even know what that says. I do agree that Towns and Wiggins haven't done their reps any favors but at least Towns did look good before Thibs showed up.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
You know, I don't care as long as they call it the same way on both ends of the court, but when the Raptors have gone to the line 22 times, and the Kings have gone to the line 6 times, I get a wee bit suspicious. In the Bucks game, it looked like that if you stared too hard at Antetokoumnpo, they blew the whistle. Yeah, the Kings finally started getting some calls in the 2nd half, but by that time we were down 30 pt's. Who the hell cares at that point.
I was re-watching some of the Toronto game and in the first quarter the refs missed two fouls on Fox. The first was when he went into the lane, got pushed by Lowry from behind, resulting in Fox losing the ball and a turnover; the second was on about a 12 ft shot when Fox got into the lane and he was clearly fouled on the shot by a Toronto big, resulting in a miss. Wait a minute. I thought this was supposed to be a guard's league. Why isn't Fox getting these calls? He's not a rookie anymore. And this is a freaking home game.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
In terms of style they most certainly are and of course they do, it's the same thing everyone said those teams needed to do as well. The Suns had similar bigs throughout their time as well who were a crop of athletes and shooters for the most part. Regardless, they are the same in their preferred identity as they basically want to lead the league in pace. There are certain disadvantages when doing that and one is typically on the boards.
The majority of the NBA is playing with pace at the moment. The new set of rules have dictated that so far. The Kings run because that's to their advantage and even if they didn't run up and down all game long, they still would struggle to rebound if they aren't doing it collectively.
 
Rebounding has a lot to do with desire. There is plenty of technique which can be learned. It helps to have strong hands and a strong lower body.
Accepting the poor rebounding by the Kings is a good way to make sure they will always be a mediocre team.

Willie has improved. The two best rebounders on the team are Koufos and Bagley and neither one of them are starters. That may need to change. There is an old adage in basketball. You start your best defender and your best rebounder.
 
Rebounding has a lot to do with desire. There is plenty of technique which can be learned. It helps to have strong hands and a strong lower body.
Accepting the poor rebounding by the Kings is a good way to make sure they will always be a mediocre team.

Willie has improved. The two best rebounders on the team are Koufos and Bagley and neither one of them are starters. That may need to change. There is an old adage in basketball. You start your best defender and your best rebounder.
Stat wise WCS is the best rebounder. he leads the team in rebounds per game and is second behind KK in per 36. Bagley could be better if he learns to box out properly. also they should do more team boarding, I box out (thankless job) you go get the ball etc....
 
The majority of the NBA is playing with pace at the moment. The new set of rules have dictated that so far. The Kings run because that's to their advantage and even if they didn't run up and down all game long, they still would struggle to rebound if they aren't doing it collectively.

It's all relative and the Kings are trying to win the race. They would still struggle to rebound and that's one of those situations that they'll have to deal with having the types of bigs they do. They aren't board munchers, they're rim runners and shooters mostly and it will come down to whether getting into the offense quick is worth losing the battle of the boards if it comes to that. One small correction they can make is bringing their defensive back line up from the deep paint against the teams looking to bomb away from 3 so they don't keep watching the ball bounce back to the other team.
 
Stat wise WCS is the best rebounder. he leads the team in rebounds per game and is second behind KK in per 36. Bagley could be better if he learns to box out properly. also they should do more team boarding, I box out (thankless job) you go get the ball etc....
If your going just on game stats, your right, Willie is the best rebounder, but if you to on per 36 numbers or 100 possessions numbers, then Koufos i the best rebounder.

Koufos: Per 36 minutes, 12.0 rebounds - per 100 possessions, 15.0 rebounds
Willie: Per 36 minutes, 10.2 rebounds - per 100 possessions, 12.7 rebounds
Bagley: Per 36 minutes, 10.0 rebounds - per 100 possesions, 12.5 rebounds.

Willie and Bagley are fairly close, so having both on the floor together would certainly help our rebounding. Or having any two of the three should in theory help.
 
Stat wise WCS is the best rebounder. he leads the team in rebounds per game and is second behind KK in per 36. Bagley could be better if he learns to box out properly. also they should do more team boarding, I box out (thankless job) you go get the ball etc....
Last night KAT got 19 boards, while Willie got 5. Kosta got 9 in only 19 minutes.