[Game] Kings vs. Lakers 1/7/2022 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern

[hrdboild]

I don't think you can just look at the score and say the Kings gave up 134 points, they must have played terrible defense. You can do that as a motivating tactic but when you actually watch the game, the shots the Lakers knocked down in the first half were not easy shots. And we've had problems all season with stopping post scorers and securing rebounds. Schroder and Westbrook just had career games shooting the ball. Is that all on the defense? Advanced stats assume so but sometimes guys just get hot and it doesn't matter how well you contest. If the players are supposed to collapse into the paint they will often be a step slow on the contest for outside jumpers. Nobody can be in two places at the same time.

I was a little disappointed in Coach Brown's post-game press conference this time. He threw the players under the bus in a way I don't recall him doing before. Metu, Len, and Queta were all on the bench and none of them played a single minute while Thomas Bryant went 12 for 14 in the paint and pulled down 15 rebounds. Okpala probably should have played 20 minutes instead of 8 and focused all his energy on slowing Lebron. Lebron's ability to penetrate is what created open jumpers for everyone else. I think there were tactical decisions Mike Brown made within the flow of the game which favored offense instead of defense. It could just be that the players he trusts more right now are his scorers but he has at points this season committed to playing Davion and KZ even when they weren't scoring. And the backup C issue remains our achilles heel. We need to find someone who can spell Sabonis effectively. Maybe it's time to let Metu out of the dog house?

 

[jiimbob]

The annoying thing is Fox can be very good defensively. Since his strategy offensively is to save most of the volume for the the last 15-20 minutes of the game I wish he would heavily prioritize defense in the first half.

Even if he did. Huerter gets beat. HB gets beat. Keegan gets caught in unfavorable matchups and gets beat. Domas isn’t a rim protector. Kings need to add a better and longer defender in the frontcourt with Domas and need to get better defense from Fox. They also need almost all of their bench guys to be competent defenders. Not just one or two guys, only one that plays consistently.

the defensive issue is a long way from being solved this season..what can be solved is those offensive droughts when there is a bench heavy unit in. We only have one reliable scorer off the bench and even he’s proving to be streaky. Kings need to be even better offensively and can be.

Yes, like everyone else on this site I wonder if Monte is working the phone trying to get that better longer defender. I don't know who is realistically out there and what it will take but this teams shortcomings seem pretty clear.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Raptor is questionable at best. Jokic is the second best defensive player according to them and Davion Mitchell is 33.

Agreed. Most defensive stats are. But you also don’t need stats to tell you our back court can’t guard anybody. The eye test will tell you that after 5 minutes. The stats just reinforce it.

 

[SacTownKid]

yep I agree. Sabonis fouls out because he is attacked over and over. We are not supposed to give up drives over and over but we continue to do so.

They actually kind of are though. They play a drop scheme on pick and roll most of the time and it's meant to funnel players to help. They also help down in the paint off of shooters which is why they are giving up open 3's every game. Then, when the Kings play small they can't challenge on run outs effectively. When they play big they get beat on draw and kick. When Brown played more switch and pressure they jumped up to the middle of the defensive net ratings.

 

[SacTownKid]

Right now, according to Raptor stats, Fox is the 5th worst defensive starting point guard and Huerter is tied for the 7th worst defensive shooting guard. It's going to be really hard to win games when your back court is getting beat on every single possession.

The Kings usually get beat on pick and roll which is not individual defense the way they are playing it most of the time. It's a team defense. The Kings give up pick and roll and help off 3's. Something that is causing them to be quite drastic on defense game to game.

 

[SacTownKid]

Agreed. Most defensive stats are. But you also don’t need stats to tell you our back court can’t guard anybody. The eye test will tell you that after 5 minutes. The stats just reinforce it.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to see with some of these stats why individual ratings are garbage. Davion type players will often times end up below way worse defender types which is all you need to know. This is why I think the only advanced stats that truly matter are the 5 man unit stats. That gives you a picture in totality as to what that unit at any given time is doing and should give you clues as to the rotations you need to stay away from as a coach.

 

[kb02]

Why are you here?

sigh

 

[iowamcnabb]

Agreed. Most defensive stats are. But you also don’t need stats to tell you our back court can’t guard anybody. The eye test will tell you that after 5 minutes. The stats just reinforce it.

I agree they have been poor but I think Brown said it best in his post game presser “most guys can’t be guarded by one player”. That’s me paraphrasing, but the Kings have not figured out how to guard “on a string” defensively yet. It’s lack of communication, slow rotations etc in addition to some physical limitations.

Personally, since basketball is a game of runs I’d like to see Brown implore a defensive stopper group, at least our poor man’s version of it for short stretches. Our 3 or 4 best defenders with Fox, letting him super star us through a 3-4 minute stretch while hopefully compiling stops.

 

[hrdboild]

I still think the best version of this roster is with KZ and Keegan in the starting lineup and Barnes coming off the bench. The second unit needs a go-to scorer (it's even more glaring with Monk out) and we don't know if Harrison will be back next season so we need to find a way to get Keegan more involved in the offense. KZ might not be a perfect player but he fits the mold of what we want next to Fox, Huerter, Murray, and Sabonis -- a dedicated wing stopper who takes all the tough matchups on defense and mostly stands in the corner on offense -- and it will be easier to initiate a future free agent into that role in the future if we've already established it as a role. This game probably would have played out much differently if we'd started the first quarter with KZ checking Lebron instead of Barnes.

It's nice to say we're a top 5 offensive team but if we score 2 less ppg in exchange for giving up 3 less ppg that's still a net gain. We can play the matchup game in the playoffs when we have a consistent opponent. For now, a little more balance would help our record.

 

[SCKingsfan]

I don't think you can just look at the score and say the Kings gave up 134 points, they must have played terrible defense. You can do that as a motivating tactic but when you actually watch the game, the shots the Lakers knocked down in the first half were not easy shots. And we've had problems all season with stopping post scorers and securing rebounds. Schroder and Westbrook just had career games shooting the ball. Is that all on the defense? Advanced stats assume so but sometimes guys just get hot and it doesn't matter how well you contest. If the players are supposed to collapse into the paint they will often be a step slow on the contest for outside jumpers. Nobody can be in two places at the same time.

Despite the Kings' improvement on offense this year, their defense is indefensible, making them borderline unwatchable for me at this point (and normally I will watch every game live or recorded, even in the dark years). This is a uniquely soft team, and it has been for the last couple of years. So many games this year we have ended up in dogfights against low rated offensive teams because they can score at will throughout the game when they figure out ways to get uncontested shots (and there are many road to achieve that with our D). We put ourselves in the position where the game gets determined in the last minute, sometimes by a call (or two), and I agree about the bias, but it's only because our horrible defense that we end up in this position on the regular. So the bellyaching at the end of games about missed calls - it doesn't miss the point, entirely, but it seems to function as a slight of hand in terms of accountability, so I appreciate the coach's refocusing on the truer source of the problem in terms of being a successful team.

 

[hrdboild]

Despite the Kings' improvement on offense this year, their defense is indefensible, making them borderline unwatchable for me at this point (and normally I will watch every game live or recorded, even in the dark years). This is a uniquely soft team, and it has been for the last couple of years. So many games this year we have ended up in dogfights against low rated offensive teams because they can score at will throughout the game when they figure out ways to get uncontested shots (and there are many road to achieve that with our D). We put ourselves in the position where the game gets determined in the last minute, sometimes by a call (or two), and I agree about the bias, but it's only because our horrible defense that we end up in this position on the regular. So the bellyaching at the end of games about missed calls - it doesn't miss the point, entirely, but it seems to function as a slight of hand in terms of accountability, so I appreciate the coach's refocusing on the truer source of the problem in terms of being a successful team.

You're right. The defense is what we need to focus on because we can't control the calls. It's mostly just in the heat of the moment that the bad calls are so infuriating. In retrospect, even in the first quarter it was obvious we were in trouble. We couldn't stop them even once. I agree with the sentiment that the defense needs to get better. I just don't agree that it's all on the players. We have defensive role-players and they're not playing.

 

[Kingster]

Regarding the ref issue, there's a lot of talk of the competitiveness of the league overall. Parity rules. If that is the case, wouldn't it make sense that ref calls become even more important to decide games than in years gone by? Specifically, the Kings are in the middle of the parity environment and hence every close game seems to be hinged on ref calls. The only way to avoid the problem is for them to make a leap to the point where they blow teams out more often so we don't have to concern ourselves with ref calls.

The Kings defense will only get appreciably better this year from a trade that brings in athletic length. Queta is obviously not the answer. Yes, he has the length, but he's a stiff and that's why he's not getting played more often. Brown and his staff aren't idiots. If Queta could play, he'd be playing. As far as the guards, the only one that is defensively good is Davion (and KZ as a combo). I've come to accept that Fox is too physically fragile to give defensive efforts for most games or most of the time within any given game. He can't hold up to the pounding for extended periods. He can make the remarkable play every now and again or every game and again, but he just can't do it on a consistent sustainable basis.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

This game probably would have played out much differently if we'd started the first quarter with KZ checking Lebron instead of Barnes.

Good point. Okpala looked really good on defense against James in the preseason. Forced him into some really bad contested shots.

I'll have to see Brown make a change in Barnes' role to actually believe it could happen. I just don't see him doing it

 

[Elektrik]

Somehow we are still 5th seed in the west, 2 games over .500 and playing .500 ball on the road. Seems to me we have lots to be thankful for. NBA refs have always sucked. It’s no different now and it’s not going to change. Fugetaboudit and play ball.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Somehow we are still 5th seed in the west, 2 games over .500 and playing .500 ball on the road. Seems to me we have lots to be thankful for. NBA refs have always sucked. It’s no different now and it’s not going to change. Fugetaboudit and play ball.

The officials today or nowhere near the caliber of what the league had for example in the 80's and 90's. Something has gone off the rails with how these refs are getting a job at the highest level

 

[SacTownKid]

I still think the best version of this roster is with KZ and Keegan in the starting lineup and Barnes coming off the bench. The second unit needs a go-to scorer (it's even more glaring with Monk out) and we don't know if Harrison will be back next season so we need to find a way to get Keegan more involved in the offense. KZ might not be a perfect player but he fits the mold of what we want next to Fox, Huerter, Murray, and Sabonis -- a dedicated wing stopper who takes all the tough matchups on defense and mostly stands in the corner on offense -- and it will be easier to initiate a future free agent into that role in the future if we've already established it as a role. This game probably would have played out much differently if we'd started the first quarter with KZ checking Lebron instead of Barnes.

It's nice to say we're a top 5 offensive team but if we score 2 less ppg in exchange for giving up 3 less ppg that's still a net gain. We can play the matchup game in the playoffs when we have a consistent opponent. For now, a little more balance would help our record.

KZ helps out a lot but only when they actually play on all defense. That's the issue. We've seen Barnes and Murray do well when allowed to switch. Heck, they did it last night but that needs to start at the beginning of the game, not when you've already let a team bomb all over you from downtown or feed bigs at the rim off the Kings drop coverage in pick and roll. Once a team is going it really doesn't matter what defense you run at them. If Monte can land another player capable of getting 20 a night without DHO's or screens being drawn up I think this could easily be a playoff team based on their offense but until then, yeah, they can't be this bad on defense. We could see this coming all the way towards the start of the season.

 

[SacTownKid]

Regarding the ref issue, there's a lot of talk of the competitiveness of the league overall. Parity rules. If that is the case, wouldn't it make sense that ref calls become even more important to decide games than in years gone by? Specifically, the Kings are in the middle of the parity environment and hence every close game seems to be hinged on ref calls. The only way to avoid the problem is for them to make a leap to the point where they blow teams out more often so we don't have to concern ourselves with ref calls.

The Kings defense will only get appreciably better this year from a trade that brings in athletic length. Queta is obviously not the answer. Yes, he has the length, but he's a stiff and that's why he's not getting played more often. Brown and his staff aren't idiots. If Queta could play, he'd be playing. As far as the guards, the only one that is defensively good is Davion (and KZ as a combo). I've come to accept that Fox is too physically fragile to give defensive efforts for most games or most of the time within any given game. He can't hold up to the pounding for extended periods. He can make the remarkable play every now and again or every game and again, but he just can't do it on a consistent sustainable basis.

Queta ran the drop coverage better than any other big on the roster so far. He certainly had less rope than players like Metu and Holmes who are autobuckets in the drop.

 

[SacTownKid]

The officials today or nowhere near the caliber of what the league had for example in the 80's and 90's. Something has gone off the rails with how these refs are getting a job at the highest level

It's also a much tougher game to call considering the lack of phsyical contact allowed. Back in the days a foul was a legit foul. But in that league players like Steph Curry ain't Steph Curry.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

It's also a much tougher game to call considering the lack of phsyical contact allowed. Back in the days a foul was a legit foul. But in that league players like Steph Curry ain't Steph Curry.

Give me Jake O'Donnell, Steve Javy, and Joey Crawford from that era, officiating with today's rules. I can garauntee you that they would call a better game

 

[kingsboi]

Right there with you. I hate the refs. They are garbage. Kings clearly get screwed at the end of games more often than not. But they have way worse issues right now than the refs. No one in our starting line up plays any defense at all. Almost every game we make one role player look like a generational talent. This team will go no where as long as they continue to give zero effort on that end, no matter how many points they can score.

trying to turn a whole bunch of offensive players into respectable defenders is asking for too much I think. At some point from a personnel perspective, you have to acquire some defensive first minded players because all the good teams have them.

 

[hrdboild]

trying to turn a whole bunch of offensive players into respectable defenders is asking for too much I think. At some point from a personnel perspective, you have to acquire some defensive first minded players because all the good teams have them.

I think Davion Mitchell, KZ Okpala, and Neemias Queta are all defense-first minded players. Davion is getting 19.5 mpg but both KZ and Queta are barely in the rotation at all. The year Queta got drafted he lead the NCAA in Defensive Win Shares (ahead of even Evan Mobley). If Mike Brown is serious about improving the defense with this group of players, he needs to get KZ and Neemias on the floor at least 15 mpg each.

 

[kingsboi]

I think Davion Mitchell, KZ Okpala, and Neemias Queta are all defense-first minded players. Davion is getting 19.5 mpg but both KZ and Queta are barely in the rotation at all. The year Queta got drafted he lead the NCAA in Defensive Win Shares (ahead of even Evan Mobley). If Mike Brown is serious about improving the defense with this group of players, he needs to get KZ and Neemias on the floor at least 15 mpg each.

if this is the case, it makes you wonder why they aren't seeing the time in Queta's case and very sporadic from Okpala

 

[Kingster]

Queta ran the drop coverage better than any other big on the roster so far. He certainly had less rope than players like Metu and Holmes who are autobuckets in the drop.

He's never shown the propensity to be a good rebounder. He's not a long term solution, just a "hope" for a position of need imo. There's a reason Brown has shuffled the deck chairs with those three.