[Game] Kings vs Clippers 3/1- 7PT/10ET

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What I learned from watching the Kings so far: They have now developed into the Kings of losing close games. Seriously, is this a habit or is this the coaching fault? I suspect it is a coaching flaw. He doesn't pick up the pace until he senses they're losing. He doesn't put the right lineup in until it is urgent...that's why you see come back after come back.
 
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SLAB

Hall of Famer
Disgusting call at the end on Harrison barnes. Of course. Fox shooting 9 shots and Bogdan 15 is also unacceptable

Oh well. The “easy” part of our schedule is coming up. Let’s see what happens
We beat the Celtics once, but immediatly Undo it by losing to the Knicks.
 
Season to Feb 5 Kings 38.2% from 3 (4th)

Feb 6 to now. Kings 33.1% from 3 (27th)

Blame it on Vlade or my choice blame it on Joeger’s line up change but the difference is stark.

I'm going to give Joerger enough credit that during the break he got in some practice time and sets for this new lineup of his so that is a much better indicator. Either way, the Kings attempts are heading south and so are their chances. Rarely do you see teams that both go small and turn their back from the 3 point line. It makes no sense.
 
Small ball these days seems to mean more two versatile forwards and less 2>>3 and 3>>>>4 like we do it. If Joerger is still insistent on playing small ball, there's still a way to address it in the offseason. But it all hinges on parting with WCS and shifting Bagley.

You can either play Bagley as a 4 and pair him with a C that more fits him. Vuvevic, Dedmon, maybe even Giles in due time.

Or you can shift Bagley to the 5 and get another forward. Aminu or a Morris twin perhaps. Hell, the door on Middleton or Harris shouldn't have been slammed just because we acquired Barnes. The 6'7"-6"9" switchable forward is the hot item in the NBA right now.

Small ball can still work with this crowd, but it can only work with two full sized forwards and not Bogi at the 3.
Bagley certainly makes it a more dangerous option because it would allow the Kings the option of extending that pick and roll farther out. Teams are starting to sag way off of Willie because they know if Willie does get the ball back on the roll too far out he has to make a move out of the pass. Bagley getting that pass at anything around 15 feet or out in entirely different since he can weave his way to the rim or put up a quick floater. Willie really needs to get some confidence in the pop shot. Tonight he had a look and he flinched. If he can hit that the game will be so much easier for everybody.
 
I'm going to give Joerger enough credit that during the break he got in some practice time and sets for this new lineup of his so that is a much better indicator. Either way, the Kings attempts are heading south and so are their chances. Rarely do you see teams that both go small and turn their back from the 3 point line. It makes no sense.
We agree. The line-up makes no sense and hasn’t been successful. That’s on Joeger.
 
Missed the game, checked the box.

Not really surprised the we lost, that Giles played well in very limited minutes, and that Bogi sucked again.
 
This has been the key lately. Other than the Bucks game, Bogie’s offensive slump has been killing this team. If he was shooting and scoring as he typically can, the KINGS would have won a couple of these recent games.

IDK if something is physically wrong with him that he’s not talking about or if it’s all mental, but something has been off with him all season.
Like I said I think partly it's the over reliance on individual creativity. So much of Bogdans game has turned into him dribbling and trying to create a look or shooting without being set. The Kings need to spread the floor, run pick and roll, and kick it back out to shooters like DC mentioned more than once during the broadcast. One thing about Doug is that he knows what's going on out there and usually knocks it out of the park. He sees the game like a PG and maybe, just maybe a future coach.
 
After all that’s been said, we’re still only two games back in the loss column. Everything will even out in the end, as they’ve played 3 more games than we have already
 
We agree. The line-up makes no sense and hasn’t been successful. That’s on Joeger.

Just like last year I think it's more misuse than anything. I think the lineup would make sense if they looked to take advantage of their inherent floor spreading ability more. There is too much charging into the paint regardless of lineup and no matter what anybody says, that reeks of intent. If that wasn't the game plan we would have heard about it by now.
 
After all that’s been said, we’re still only two games back in the loss column. Everything will even out in the end, as they’ve played 3 more games than we have already

What's going to be toughest is that the Kings lost the season series to the team they need to jump. That means tack on an extra bit to get over that hump if the Spurs don't collapse.
 
Just like last year I think it's more misuse than anything. I think the lineup would make sense if they looked to take advantage of their inherent floor spreading ability more. There is too much charging into the paint regardless of lineup and no matter what anybody says, that reeks of intent. If that wasn't the game plan we would have heard about it by now.
The problem is Fox, Bogdan and Barnes aren’t shooting well and therefore are looking to drive. Giles has some weird handcuffs and won’t shoot beyond 15 ft. WCS is who he is.

The line-up just doesn’t fit these players. Barnes is a good rebounding and defensive 3. I actually think he would fit well with the true stretch 4 we do have on the roster, Beli.

Whatever, if the front office really did want to fire Joeger he’s putting the bullets in the gun with this line-up change.
 
Fox needs to take his game up a notch. He's not being influential and he most definitely needs to put on some more weight over the summer so he can finish in traffic better. Fox has been a solid point guard but he's regressed a bit since november and december which is discouraging. I'd like to think we could have tobias instead of harrison next year simply because we have too many streaky shooters aside from buddy.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
The important and obvious missing ingredient is Bagley. Bagley was the key for the second unit and without him they've been a shambles. He was the focal point of that unit, the guy that you could throw it into and command double teams. He's was a force in that second unit.

Giles should the point-center for the second unit. Bogs should become a cutter, not an initiator. If Bogs gets the ball on a cut he's a good enough passer to dish it someone else if the shot isn't there. Right now he's way over his head into being the focal point/point guard of the unit. He even turned down a completely open shot because he's trying to think like a point guard. The other players should follow suit - constantly cutting and moving. Like Christie has said, if they get tired constantly moving and cutting then Joerger should sub them out. Because of the Bagley void it looks like the Kings are running a quasi offense - a little of Bogs initiation, a little of Yogi initiation, a little of Giles initiation. They look like they have no idea who they really are, which is very different from the unit in which Fox plays - they have a fast break identity that complements Fox. That second unit needs to establish their identity, pronto.
 
Season to Feb 5 Kings 38.2% from 3 (4th)

Feb 6 to now. Kings 33.1% from 3 (27th)

Blame it on Vlade or my choice blame it on Joeger’s line up change but the difference is stark.
OR it's just statistical variance from a 3 week sample that you could pick out in whatever means you want to push your narrative (in this case, that new starting LU is bad).

You can't compare 2 distinct data sets where one has significantly more volume in it than the other. It's dishonest and simply a means to try and bring validity to a bad argument.
 
OR it's just statistical variance from a 3 week sample that you could pick out in whatever means you want to push your narrative (in this case, that new starting LU is bad).

You can't compare 2 distinct data sets where one has significantly more volume in it than the other. It's dishonest and simply a means to try and bring validity to a bad argument.
Good luck finding any comparable 3 week stretch. I’m fairly confident but too lazy to do the work that the change is a couple standard deviations from their season norm.
 
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The important and obvious missing ingredient is Bagley. Bagley was the key for the second unit and without him they've been a shambles. He was the focal point of that unit, the guy that you could throw it into and command double teams. He's was a force in that second unit.

Giles should the point-center for the second unit. Bogs should become a cutter, not an initiator. If Bogs gets the ball on a cut he's a good enough passer to dish it someone else if the shot isn't there. Right now he's way over his head into being the focal point/point guard of the unit. He even turned down a completely open shot because he's trying to think like a point guard. The other players should follow suit - constantly cutting and moving. Like Christie has said, if they get tired constantly moving and cutting then Joerger should sub them out. Because of the Bagley void it looks like the Kings are running a quasi offense - a little of Bogs initiation, a little of Yogi initiation, a little of Giles initiation. They look like they have no idea who they really are, which is very different from the unit in which Fox plays - they have a fast break identity that complements Fox. That second unit needs to establish their identity, pronto.
Just curious how this follows when the guys on the bench were on average +4.6 and the starters with an identity were on average -11.6.

How are we blaming the second unit again?
 
There was a time where if the Kings were within ten near the end, they played with a poise and confidence beyond their experience. Now it's a young, tenacious team trying to find a way through with the opposing team respecting but not really fearing them. I think a big difference is the mental lift that crazy Uncle Shump brought. I like crazy Uncle Corey but it's different. I'm fine having moved on but the kids will need to find that from within themselves on the court.

Maybe it was just a tough stretch against better teams and they manage to squeek in the playoffs anyways. Maybe too many new pieces to figure out in a short span of time. But the talent is there, staff and FO included. Not to write this season off yet but does anybody not expect them to be in the playoffs next year after an off season of dev?

And i hope the Kardiac Kings nickname dies with this season. Too damn stressful!
 
We've carried a negative point differential almost all season which means we've outperformed our expected win percentage to get the record we have. So in a sense, this string of close losses shouldn't come as a surprise. Obviously it's disappointing to feel like we're right there and then blow it but whether Buddy gets off a better shot against GS or someone secures the rebound against Denver is just statistical noise. The real problem has been the inconsistency on defense. They're just not getting enough stops. Sure the offense alone is worth the price of admission this year and if we had continued shooting the lights out all year then you could probably say that the defense doesn't really matter. You can make up for a lot of mistakes by knocking down threes in bunches but clanging them off the rim (or more often, not shooting them at all) puts the focus back on the defense and we have yet to figure out that side of the court.

I don't know what else these guys can do though. There certainly isn't a lack of effort from Fox, Bogi, Giles and Barnes. Buddy is so important to our offense that he needs to be out there. It may be time to get Bjelica"s 40% three point shooting back in the starting lineup. At least until Bagley comes back. Some of the downswing in shooting percentage could be tired legs but I feel like the spacing hasn't been as good since the roster was reshuffled. Both Fox and Bogi have a tendency to settle for pull up twos when the play breaks down. That alone isn't necessarily a problem because they make a lot of them but you only get to play laissez-faire defense when you're blowing people away with volume scoring and tough two pointers aren't really getting that done.

Basically, this is who we are right now. We're a .500 team who plays well enough to keep games close but can't reliably get stops in crunch time. The difference in the OKC game was Willie taking that charge at the end. One stop. And Westbrook made that shot before it got waived off - - if the foul doesn't get called we might lose that game too. I"d like to think with so many young guys that internal ďevelopment alone should push us over the hump next year. But we need to establish some kind of defensive identity or we need to stop going through long stretches where we forget that we're an elite shooting team and grind out low percentage shots. If the games aren't close then the emphasis on stops becomes less significant. I feel like having Fox, Barnes (at SF), and Willie on the floor together should at minimum make us a middle of the road defensive squad but somebody needs to be able to seal the deal with a defensive rebound. Second chance points are killing us this season.
 
We've carried a negative point differential almost all season which means we've outperformed our expected win percentage to get the record we have. So in a sense, this string of close losses shouldn't come as a surprise. Obviously it's disappointing to feel like we're right there and then blow it but whether Buddy gets off a better shot against GS or someone secures the rebound against Denver is just statistical noise. The real problem has been the inconsistency on defense. They're just not getting enough stops. Sure the offense alone is worth the price of admission this year and if we had continued shooting the lights out all year then you could probably say that the defense doesn't really matter. You can make up for a lot of mistakes by knocking down threes in bunches but clanging them off the rim (or more often, not shooting them at all) puts the focus back on the defense and we have yet to figure out that side of the court.

I don't know what else these guys can do though. There certainly isn't a lack of effort from Fox, Bogi, Giles and Barnes. Buddy is so important to our offense that he needs to be out there. It may be time to get Bjelica"s 40% three point shooting back in the starting lineup. At least until Bagley comes back. Some of the downswing in shooting percentage could be tired legs but I feel like the spacing hasn't been as good since the roster was reshuffled. Both Fox and Bogi have a tendency to settle for pull up twos when the play breaks down. That alone isn't necessarily a problem because they make a lot of them but you only get to play laissez-faire defense when you're blowing people away with volume scoring and tough two pointers aren't really getting that done.

Basically, this is who we are right now. We're a .500 team who plays well enough to keep games close but can't reliably get stops in crunch time. The difference in the OKC game was Willie taking that charge at the end. One stop. And Westbrook made that shot before it got waived off - - if the foul doesn't get called we might lose that game too. I"d like to think with so many young guys that internal ďevelopment alone should push us over the hump next year. But we need to establish some kind of defensive identity or we need to stop going through long stretches where we forget that we're an elite shooting team and grind out low percentage shots. If the games aren't close then the emphasis on stops becomes less significant. I feel like having Fox, Barnes (at SF), and Willie on the floor together should at minimum make us a middle of the road defensive squad but somebody needs to be able to seal the deal with a defensive rebound. Second chance points are killing us this season.
Agree with everything here.

Defense and 2nd chance pts. people pointed the charge on Barnes or the O-board we gave up late in the game, but the game wasn't lost on that single play. We gave up a offensive rebound on the first or 2nd play of the game after a free throw that resulted in 2 points. Every play adds up whether it's first play or last play.
 
Fox needs to take his game up a notch. He's not being influential and he most definitely needs to put on some more weight over the summer so he can finish in traffic better. Fox has been a solid point guard but he's regressed a bit since november and december which is discouraging. I'd like to think we could have tobias instead of harrison next year simply because we have too many streaky shooters aside from buddy.
Fox really disappoints me, too, because he should be averaging 25 points and 12 rebounds a game by now. What’s his problem?!
:rolleyes:
I actually think Fox has been amazing this year. Especially given his age and inexperience. And he’s been a freaking warrior all year for us! He plays hurt. He adjusts his game when the scouting reports catch up to him. Opposing players think he’s the real deal. I think so, too.
Do I want him to work on his game and his body this summer? Of course! But I will save my real disappointment in Fox for when he gets too comfortable with who he is rather than striving for who he wants to be.
 
Well on a positive note, Bagley acoided major injury to his knee. I don’t think the playoffs are in tbe cards this year. Can’t be losing like that to the clippers like that. But hey they are still only 3 games back of 7/8 and have a more favorable stretch coming up so who knows
 
Fox really disappoints me, too, because he should be averaging 25 points and 12 rebounds a game by now. What’s his problem?!.
What he said. Too many games he hasn’t been “influential” and his game hasn’t resembled the future superstar play of November/December throughout the year.
 
Well, whatever. Goal should be to be a ~.500 team with the goal to make the playoffs next year. A couple things killed our playoff chances down the stretch of the season I feel.

-Barnes terrible shooting.
-Bogdan terrible everything.
-Joerger being insistent on failed small ball lineups. Bonus points for changing up things in a risky experiment at the worst possible time.

The goal for next year's roster is to get Bogi back on the bench. Move Harrison Barnes back to the 3 and hope he regains a ~38% stroke. No matter what WCS is or isn't, he and Bagley are a redundant, bad fit and I don't think anyone would argue against Bagley being the superior talent. Promote Bagley to starter next year and part with WCS. The other big... either turn Giles into a stretch big or go get a stretch big that isn't turds like Bjelica is (Vuvevic?).
100% bogi struggles have really hurt this team. If he isnt playing like we expect then we just dont have the guns. Buddy by himself is not enough to do it and Fox isnt there yet. Barnes struggles have hurt just as much.

If those 2 are playing average ball we are 3 and 3 over these last 6 games.

Bogi also needs to be coming off the bench in a Ginobili role. Hate him starting at the 3 and losing his punch/leadership off the bench
 
I've almost given up on this season. We are slowly falling out of the playoff race and the Clippers are playing great ball. The Lakers won last night too. I'm not sure I believe in this team enough to gain enough ground. And I don't like having to rely on a team like the Spurs to collapse. Bagley being out for who knows how much time is really the icing on the cake. I haven't given up all hope, but it's starting to look bleak.

At the end of the day however, I'm not that disappointed. I didn't have high expectations coming into the season, so even if we don't make the playoffs it's still been a successful year. This summer we just need to keep developing our young core. Our bigs need to hit the weight room hard.
 
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