ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Oh good, we get to hear from Lance Woods. How the hell did this dude work his way on the telecast
[Game] Kings vs. Cavaliers, 11/13/2023 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
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miltonap
Starter
I agree with the sentiment of riding a hot hand but I'm more talking future outlook.
TaxMan
Starter
I’m never going to write off any player (even Duarte), but I’d like to see brown give Keon 10 games as the backup pg to see how it goes.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Keegan always gets hosed for DPOG on milestones. Last year it was the G man and now Mike haha
captain bill
All-Star
He's one of the greats of his generation and gonna collect the respect he's due here. Happy to have been on his day one bandwagon
miltonap
Starter
I think that's fair, I'm all for rewarding a player that has performed well anyways.
captain bill
All-Star
Tbf we both missed the record breaker shooting the crap after the game got out of hand lol
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Another very good game from K-Huert. So very glad to see it. I’ve been a critic since the latter half of last season, but I gotta give him props when he plays like this. I hope it becomes the norm, not an anomaly, as this team is so much better when Red Velvet is on his game.
Moving on to Swipa the Fox — what can you say? He’s the straw that stirs the drink. His return was tonight HUGE. I just hope there are no set backs with his ankle.
Keegster was a monster on both ends. His on-ball defense against Steph Curry recently, and again tonight against Donovan Mitchell (who went 7-21 from the field), was reminiscent of a lesser, yet still effective version of Scottie Pippen. Give me more of it, please!
Domas was rock solid, per usual. Monk was effective off the bench, per usual. And Sasha had a really nice spurt, hopefully earning some more meaningful playing time.
Fantastic TEAM win against a pretty good opponent.
Moving on to Swipa the Fox — what can you say? He’s the straw that stirs the drink. His return was tonight HUGE. I just hope there are no set backs with his ankle.
Keegster was a monster on both ends. His on-ball defense against Steph Curry recently, and again tonight against Donovan Mitchell (who went 7-21 from the field), was reminiscent of a lesser, yet still effective version of Scottie Pippen. Give me more of it, please!
Domas was rock solid, per usual. Monk was effective off the bench, per usual. And Sasha had a really nice spurt, hopefully earning some more meaningful playing time.
Fantastic TEAM win against a pretty good opponent.
I mean, I don't want to go through everything again with Davion, but the Kings have been flat out atrocious with him on the floor this season. On both sides of the ball. Of course that's heavily weighted with the 2 bad HOU games, but those still count no?
Meanwhile, the Kings D has been 9.6 points better on D with Keon on the floor in 69 minutes this season (before tonight, we'll see after it updates). While the offense has stayed neutral.
To me, that matches the eye test. Keon has been incredibly good on defense and incredibly disruptive at creating TOV with his elite hands. And offensively he stays out of the way. Will he continue that is a question of course, but I'm not gifting Davion his minutes back when Keon is outplaying him in a huge way.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
I think Ivey will be a really good player. It’s tough to judge when he’s not starting now that Cade is back healthy. You simply can’t play both of them at the same time as they both demand the ball (unlike when we had Tyrese and Fox starting). Not sure what Detroit does, but they should consider trading him. He averages 11pts in 19 mins, and that’s with much improved % across the board… 49% FG, 37% 3pt FG.
That said, Keegan is a perfect fit for our team. Ivey was a consideration if Fox’s trajectory followed what we saw in 2022.
White_Chocolate
Starter
I giggled
PorchSurfin
Starter
A lot of people don't realize.
miltonap
Starter
I just think the seasons young and its not right to write off Davion.
Just think people are overreacting about him (I've seen seen some stuff on twitter about him that doesn't seem warranted) so I don't want people to get delusional and forget about what he can bring to the team.
Just remember that we don't win that Portland game without Davion but again, I think it's neutral if anything but I'm fine with riding the hot hand for now.
reptilexcq2
Bench
Huerter shoot the lights out...if he does that every game...this team will always have a chance to win because other teams just can't guard the screen roll between him and Sabonis. Of course with Fox back, everything is easier...guys are more open. This game is a clinic as far as shooting...it seems like everybody is contributing. I guess going with Ellis over Mitchell help because of length. Mitchell's defense has been bad this year....not really a sure shut down defender like the past. He lets guy drive by him and ended getting call for foul for either contact or trying to strip. So, I won't be surprise if Brown continue to go with the same rotation off the bench with Ellis.
captain bill
All-Star
It's really hard to say anything negative above Davion because he's such a high character guy. So I won't say anything more
People were willing to do this with Huerter lol. A good chunk of the forum in fact.
But I think Davion will have to wait his turn for a redemption arc. Because Keon's defense/size/length has just been flat out better than Davion's this season. And I don't think all that close either. And with Keon having more switchability on defense and being able to flex down a spot or 2, that's just more valuable in the flow of a game rather than a guy who's stuck only playing the 1 because of his size.
Again, this is just a snapshot with a million contextual factors needed, but without tonight's game included:
Keon ON:
ORtg: 110.9
DRtg: 105.1
+5.8. 69 minutes
Davion ON:
ORtg: 103.3
DRtg: 116.4
-13.2. 168 minutes (43% of our minutes played)
Small sample sizes and all that, but the results are so heavily in favor of Keon thus far. Maybe that will change in 2 weeks and we need to tap Davion again, but Brown is absolutely doing the right thing by playing Keon.
It's because most of these media talking heads don't actually understand all that much about basketball. With a few exceptions they're either star players who got fed the ball every night regardless of team makeup or they're a TV personality who loves to hear themselves talk whether they have anything to say or not. Most of these people just scan the rosters for big names and make their predictions based on number of All-Star selections but to win consistently you also need players who can catch and shoot, make smart passes, defend, and rebound.
Seeing the Lakers, Clippers, and Suns struggle shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has watched the NBA for the last 5 years. KD is one of the most overrated superstars in the league. Harden is washed. Kawhi has Penny Hardaway's knees. Lebron can't carry a team entirely on his own anymore. The Warriors hot start is a bit of a surprise but it's almost all been Steph Curry going into God Mode (which, to be fair, isn't that unusual for him) and they've just lost 3 in a row so they might be settling back to who they actually are a little bit.
Even on paper our division rivals all have serious flaws. The Kings aren't a perfect team either but they do have fresh legs, a proven offensive system that was unstoppable last season, a unicorn big man, a great coach, and a star player in his prime who might be in the middle of his first superstar season.
24 rick barry
Bench
Between Coach and Davion. I think i saw some friction after the game. They shook hands, but no smiles.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Everyone on the team needs to be held accountable for how they are playing over the course of many games, regardless of character. This includes Harrison Barnes, Mitchell, and everyone else. Sure, you want to build a culture with high character guys, but this league is about production at the end of the day
PorchSurfin
Starter
Klay hit that shot over Davion for the exact reason it would have been 10x harder to hit over Ellis. 4 inches.
You are doubling down on your Davion love but you should probably give it a rest. Keon is undoubtedly a better player, based off intangibles alone.
PorchSurfin
Starter
Davion should be upset. He worked hard all summer long and didn't grow or get longer. And he didn't improve either. Poor guy.
captain bill
All-Star
It's not fun being the only player on the bench who doesn't get into the game. The kind of guy Mike Brown is though, I think he would prefer an F-Bomb to a hand shake from one of this players anyway. "Show me you want it" is his default coaching mode.
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