Telemachus
Starter
History tells us that when a team trades the best big man in the game, it never works out well for the team trading him away.
[Game] Kings v. Spurs - 11/16/16 -7:30PT/10:30ET
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
History tells us that when a team trades the best big man in the game, it never works out well for the team trading him away.
Orlando got nice pieces when they traded Dwight.
That must be why Orlando has been so good since he left
Telemachus
Starter
Orlando is playing their 5th season since trading Howard and are still sitting near the bottom of the Eastern Conference with those nice pieces.
Incompetent FO will do that. They got nice pieces in that trade, but the FO can't seem to get on the same page after that?
K
KingMilz
Guest
Has the team that trades away the best big man ever not made the playoffs or even been close when the trade goes down? Most the time the team trades there best big men because that big man wants out (Dwight/Shaq) or they tried everything and can't really go any further in the playoffs (KG) and those teams have struggled bigtime afterwards. Our case is a bit different I would say but the result could/would not be the same it's hard to tell.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If the lack of defense were limited to the Spurs game I'd laugh it off, but it's not.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
They can somewhat stand a chance defensively when they play. I fear it's too logical for the way the team is being managed right now.
twslam07
All-Star
Joerger needs to drop Lawson from the entire rotation and use Collison & Temple as his PGs. Temple may not be as good of a playmaker, but he can defend at a very high level and at least hit a set shot. He should go with a Collison/Afflalo, Collison/Temple, or Temple/Afflalo starting frontcourt (I can make cases for all of them).
Collison/Afflalo
Pros:
-2 extra scorers on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-Great 3pt shooting/spacing
-Average to above average defense
-Average playmaking
Cons:
-Nobody who can score with the ball in their hands off the bench
Collison/Temple
Pros:
-1 extra scorer on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-1 player on the bench who can score w/ the ball in their hands
-Good 3pt shooting/spacing
-Above average to good defense
-Average to above average playmaking
Cons:
-Afflalo might be upset that he's not starting and begin to not put in effort on defense
Temple/Afflalo
Pros:
-1 extra scorer on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-1 player on the bench who can score w/ the ball in their hands
-Good 3pt shooting/spacing
-Above average to good defense
-Defensive switching versatility
-Temple/Afflalo/Gay/Cousins (w/o another PG on the floor) has been one of our strongest lineups statistically
Cons:
-Below average playmaking
Lawson/Afflalo
Pros:
-1 extra scorer on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-1 player on the bench who can score w/ the ball in their hands
-Average to above average defense
-Average to above average playmaking
Cons:
-Below average to average 3pt shooting/spacing
I'd be interested in trotting out Temple/Afflalo/Gay/Tolliver/Cousins to start with Collison/McLemore/Barnes/Casspi/Cauley-Stein/Koufos as the bench.
The scoring would come from Cousins & Gay, but Afflalo would act as the 3rd scorer in this lineup.
We would get the opportunity to use Temple's great defense against opposing teams starting guards (rather than "wasting" it on backups) to help disrupt them from the get go. His size (6'5") & length (7'0") will make it tough on PGs especially when he's defending the PnR. If Temple does have to switch, his size/length won't make him nearly as much of a liability as guys like Lawson/Collison. Also, with Tolliver in the starting lineup, Cousins can move back to the position he is best at defending (C). Tolliver's also no slouch on defense either. He plays hard, is a decent athlete, and has size/length to cover PFs.
The playmaking from PG/SG would be pretty bad, but considering Temple, Afflalo, Gay, & Cousins can all handle, pass, and make plays, the starting lineup can really focus on moving the ball as a team.
Spacing would be good with Temple, Afflalo, & Tolliver all being able to knock down 3s when defenses collapse on Cousins & Gay.
The bench would be anchored by Collison's scoring, and our bench would have a lot of fast/quick players who like to get up and down (Collison/Lawson/McLemore/Casspi/Cauley-Stein). They could act as a very different change in pace to Temple/Afflalo/Gay/Tolliver/Cousins who would be a very slow, half-court oriented team.
Collison/Afflalo
Pros:
-2 extra scorers on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-Great 3pt shooting/spacing
-Average to above average defense
-Average playmaking
Cons:
-Nobody who can score with the ball in their hands off the bench
Collison/Temple
Pros:
-1 extra scorer on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-1 player on the bench who can score w/ the ball in their hands
-Good 3pt shooting/spacing
-Above average to good defense
-Average to above average playmaking
Cons:
-Afflalo might be upset that he's not starting and begin to not put in effort on defense
Temple/Afflalo
Pros:
-1 extra scorer on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-1 player on the bench who can score w/ the ball in their hands
-Good 3pt shooting/spacing
-Above average to good defense
-Defensive switching versatility
-Temple/Afflalo/Gay/Cousins (w/o another PG on the floor) has been one of our strongest lineups statistically
Cons:
-Below average playmaking
Lawson/Afflalo
Pros:
-1 extra scorer on the floor w/ Cousins & Gay
-1 player on the bench who can score w/ the ball in their hands
-Average to above average defense
-Average to above average playmaking
Cons:
-Below average to average 3pt shooting/spacing
I'd be interested in trotting out Temple/Afflalo/Gay/Tolliver/Cousins to start with Collison/McLemore/Barnes/Casspi/Cauley-Stein/Koufos as the bench.
The scoring would come from Cousins & Gay, but Afflalo would act as the 3rd scorer in this lineup.
We would get the opportunity to use Temple's great defense against opposing teams starting guards (rather than "wasting" it on backups) to help disrupt them from the get go. His size (6'5") & length (7'0") will make it tough on PGs especially when he's defending the PnR. If Temple does have to switch, his size/length won't make him nearly as much of a liability as guys like Lawson/Collison. Also, with Tolliver in the starting lineup, Cousins can move back to the position he is best at defending (C). Tolliver's also no slouch on defense either. He plays hard, is a decent athlete, and has size/length to cover PFs.
The playmaking from PG/SG would be pretty bad, but considering Temple, Afflalo, Gay, & Cousins can all handle, pass, and make plays, the starting lineup can really focus on moving the ball as a team.
Spacing would be good with Temple, Afflalo, & Tolliver all being able to knock down 3s when defenses collapse on Cousins & Gay.
The bench would be anchored by Collison's scoring, and our bench would have a lot of fast/quick players who like to get up and down (Collison/Lawson/McLemore/Casspi/Cauley-Stein). They could act as a very different change in pace to Temple/Afflalo/Gay/Tolliver/Cousins who would be a very slow, half-court oriented team.
Last edited:
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Don't wanna risk losing Ben "Jamal Crawford" McLemore's scoring punch off the bench, I see.
F
Fora Dragi
Guest
History also says when you have the best big man in the league you win games. History is exactly that history. Clearly it's not working here.
Letsgokings13
Starter
I've seen this same story for the past 10 years.
But that's part of the point isn't it? Why can't we be the team that's above .500 for once? The point with the Bucks and Lakers is that they're not supposed to be established - you don't assume or expect them to be good teams. Every season it's "tough schedule" followed by someone getting injured, then we play some good teams tight and so say we have can hang with anyone, then lose to teams we're "supposed" to beat, then start blaming the coach, then we're out of the playoff race and so wins and losses don't count anymore ...
We've lost by single digits to 9-3 San Antonio twice (no problem with those losses)
We lost in a competitive game on the road to 9-2 Atlanta (no problem with this loss)
We lost in OT on the road in a back to back to 2-8 Miami (this one sucks)
We lost in a competitive game on the road to the now 5-7 Magic (I'm 50/50 on this)
We got blown out on the road by the 5-5 Bucks (the way we lost sucks but the Bucks on the 4th game of a road trip isn't awful)
We lost at home in a close game to the 7-5 Lakers (I hate losing to them but they are playing good ball)
We lost on the road, in overtime, on a back to back to 7-5 Blazers (no problem with this loss)
So we maybe have 1-3 objectionable losses this year in a stretch we knew would be tough. Everybody needs to calm down.
As long as the FO doesn't have a knee jerk reaction to things, we could be ok. Their are some fans ready to jump off a cliff. I think Joerger needs some time to get the most out of this group. He's said as much. I'd give it a whole year in regards to Boogie....personally I'd just hold on to him. Rudy may be a different story though....come trade deadline, it might be time to move him. I'm also not opposed to moving Koufos if anyone.
Where have I heard this response before? 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012...
In those years I could at least have hope that one of the young kids could blossom into something. This year the team is composed of medicore, over=the-hill veterans. Lawson has 0 game left. Barnes is old and overused. Willie forgot he plays basketball for a living. Gay will be looking at potential FA destinations in a couple of weeks. Casspi one of the few bright spots on the team is the forgotten man.
Most of the time when trades like that go down, the entire team is stripped of proven talent, so rebuilding the wins takes time. Memphis rebounded nicely when they graded Pau Gasol. As the losses continue piling up, the Kings need to ask themselves what in the heck the goal is this year. Gay is leaving, most of the veteran players will be gone in 2 years time. Young players aren't ready to contribute. So what we have left is trying to convince one of the best centers in the NBA to sign a long-term contract to a team stuck in neutral with little talent.
Suicide King
Starter
SO many talk of how they would rather blow it up and watch "the kids blossom" yet give up on players after a year or a few SL and DL games. Feast or famine. Lebron or bust. This same line of thinking is just as much to blame for our sucktitude over the last decade plus as anything else.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
That's really what it boils down to, no matter how much we want to hang onto Cousins. This marriage is nearing its end IMO.
Yes and the same people crying for us to trade cuz will be on here whining in 2-3 years when we don't have a star and are winning 20 games a year
If we were a 45-50 win team trying to get over the hump with a star player in his last years, I would agree with you. As it stands today, we are a team of veterans fighting for the 8th spot (probably not even good enough to compete for the 8th realistically) with marginal talent.
We're 12 games (with a difficult schedule) into the year. It's the first time we've really had better vets that have complimentary skills and a good coach. Making the playoffs (hell even getting within a couple games) would be much bigger for this franchise than people realize. Our best player is loyal and 26 and we have some young projects in the wings. You blow it up now and we're fighting just to get back to mid 30 wins for the next 4-5 years.
As much as people are frustrated by how long it's taking and worried that we'll lose Cuz for nothing, the possible deals out there don't turn us into good teams either and rooting for crappy young teams isn't nearly as fun as you're pretending.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Some changes need to be made. So far our starting unit has struggled to start games both offensively and defensively. Frankly, our starting unit has an ugly look to it with too much iso offensively, and bad matchups defensively. So, my starting lineup for what its worth.
Center: Cousins
PF: WCS
SF: Gay
SG: Temple
PG: Collison
This moves Cousins back to center, where on defense he matches up better against the other centers in the league, rather than trying guard the quick PF's that usually pull him away from the basket. I think Willie will play better next to Cousins where he becomes more of an afterthought for the other team offensively, making his cuts to the basket easier. I think it improves our defense as well as he matches up much better against the quick PF's. I don't have to explain Collison as a starter. lawson has been terrible so it's a no brainer. Temple is the closest player we have on the team to a Doug Christie type of player. He's an excellent passer from the SG position and he's proven he's capable of hitting the open three. He's also a terrific defender. I think this starting unit is more balanced overall defensively and offensively.
The bench is stuck with Lawson, but if you go small, it will make it easier for him to use his speed. So my bench would be:
Center: Koufos
PF: Tolliver/Barnes
SF: Barnes/Afflalo, depending on matchup
SG: McLemore/Afflalo
PG: Lawson
Except for Koufos, this team can get up and down the floor which should help Lawson who likes to push the ball. Frankly I think some changes need to be made personnel wise, but for now, this is how I would use the the players we have. I know that I've left out Casspi, but for now he seems to be out of Joerger's rotation, so I left him out.
Center: Cousins
PF: WCS
SF: Gay
SG: Temple
PG: Collison
This moves Cousins back to center, where on defense he matches up better against the other centers in the league, rather than trying guard the quick PF's that usually pull him away from the basket. I think Willie will play better next to Cousins where he becomes more of an afterthought for the other team offensively, making his cuts to the basket easier. I think it improves our defense as well as he matches up much better against the quick PF's. I don't have to explain Collison as a starter. lawson has been terrible so it's a no brainer. Temple is the closest player we have on the team to a Doug Christie type of player. He's an excellent passer from the SG position and he's proven he's capable of hitting the open three. He's also a terrific defender. I think this starting unit is more balanced overall defensively and offensively.
The bench is stuck with Lawson, but if you go small, it will make it easier for him to use his speed. So my bench would be:
Center: Koufos
PF: Tolliver/Barnes
SF: Barnes/Afflalo, depending on matchup
SG: McLemore/Afflalo
PG: Lawson
Except for Koufos, this team can get up and down the floor which should help Lawson who likes to push the ball. Frankly I think some changes need to be made personnel wise, but for now, this is how I would use the the players we have. I know that I've left out Casspi, but for now he seems to be out of Joerger's rotation, so I left him out.
twslam07
All-Star
You have come over to the "start Temple" side....Welcome!
Let's say the Kings do make the playoffs this year. They will get swept in the first round. I get it. They made the playoffs which is a big success. Gay, your 2nd best player, is gone. So a team that made the 8th spot just lost its 2nd best player. Where would the Kings realistically go from here?
We'd go from being a dysfunctional team that can't win to a team that features the best center in the league with a new coach, cap space and momentum. I'd rather have that than having a few random young guys and an extra late lottery pick.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
To be honest, I've never been against it. I didn't have a problem with giving Afflalo his chance, but overall, at this point in time, I'd like to see Temple get his shot at it.
Yeah...I just don't get the blow it up thing.....we have a chance to get some stability here for the first time in a long time and some of the arm chair GM's just want to kill it 12 games into the season. We need stability more than anything.
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