SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
OK so, vary the defense? How about icing some pick and rolls?
I mean, not playing exclusively drop or exclusively switch is probably a good start. Hell, throw some zone in thereOK so, vary the defense? How about icing some pick and rolls?
I mean, not playing exclusively drop or exclusively switch is probably a good start. Hell, throw some zone in there
I mean, not playing exclusively drop or exclusively switch is probably a good start. Hell, throw some zone in there
I really think considering unloading Fox is a huge mistake that would have ramifications for years. The rest of the league knows how good he is despite the team not getting the respect from the refs. No player of quality would even consider coming here for years to come because of a move like that. It would be be Kangz 2.0. There is no reason to think that Fox would walk. He’s not that kind of guy. Look at Sabonis and Monk. They chose to stay for less money and then add in that the fact that DeRozan chose to sign with us.We have to think about Fox. We could get value for him but if we suck and he chooses to walk we would be in much worse shape long term.
I don’t have the specifics but I think it was kings film room or one of those that said we had awful results with zone.
- That's not an answer to the question I asked.
- Fact Check: The Kings weren't a tenth-place team, they were a ninth-place team. But more to the point, we weren't talking about standings, we were talking about record. And if the Kings were three games above .500 this year, they'd still be a ninth-place team, so the standings are not an accurate reflection of whether your team is good or not, especially when a 9-9 team is above the play-in line in the other conference.
I really think considering unloading Fox is a huge mistake that would have ramifications for years. The rest of the league knows how good he is despite the team not getting the respect from the refs. No player of quality would even consider coming here for years to come because of a move like that. It would be be Kangz 2.0. There is no reason to think that Fox would walk. He’s not that kind of guy. Look at Sabonis and Monk. They chose to stay for less money and then add in that the fact that DeRozan chose to sign with us.
Now, on the other hand, at this point, I’m willing to trade anyone else not named Fox on this team to bring in some length and athleticism that can actually play basketball and defend.
Right now we are losing games by a couple of points with an occasional blowout. I’m not willing to blow it all up because we are trying to fight through a rough patch like every team does. Our rough patch just has come in the beginning of the season. We have a new guy being integrated in to the system, two guys that were hurt and have struggled coming back from their injuries at some level and our first round pick which hasn’t played a game. It’s frustrating right now I know but I say, stay the course…for now
They were a good team last year. You might be what you're record says you are, but you aren't necessarily what the standings say you are.They reside in the west so being 9th doesn’t get you anywhere but without a draft pick and not in the playoff. Regardless this team is not a good team and was not a good team last year. 9th or 10th does not make the playoffs most years.
I really think considering unloading Fox is a huge mistake that would have ramifications for years. The rest of the league knows how good he is despite the team not getting the respect from the refs. No player of quality would even consider coming here for years to come because of a move like that. It would be be Kangz 2.0. There is no reason to think that Fox would walk. He’s not that kind of guy. Look at Sabonis and Monk. They chose to stay for less money and then add in that the fact that DeRozan chose to sign with us.
Now, on the other hand, at this point, I’m willing to trade anyone else not named Fox on this team to bring in some length and athleticism that can actually play basketball and defend.
Right now we are losing games by a couple of points with an occasional blowout. I’m not willing to blow it all up because we are trying to fight through a rough patch like every team does. Our rough patch just has come in the beginning of the season. We have a new guy being integrated in to the system, two guys that were hurt and have struggled coming back from their injuries at some level and our first round pick which hasn’t played a game. It’s frustrating right now I know but I say, stay the course…for now
The problem with saying, "I'm not going to harp on what the Kings are doing wrong, if they're winning" is that that take only ages well if the Kings actually win.
The Kings were outplayed for 36 out of 48 minutes; the signs were there the whole time, and going "Why are y'all tripping? We're up!" while the lead is steadily evaporating is daring the universe to laugh at you.
Brown overreacting is his known weakness. Making wholesale changes to defensive schemes and lineups come after every loss. Meanwhile, the in-game adjustments when things aren't working, just doesn't happen.Definitely has to be an overreaction to helping Domas at the rim. I get why Brown was overboard with it tonight considering the paint points last game, but he's got to realize that the best defense is strong man to man even if he doesn't have strong man to man defenders outside of a few players.
Would kings fans be so against the front office admitting to themselves that this team is incredibly flawed and doing a surprise blockbuster trade that moved Fox? I would see it as an incredibly competent FO making the hard decision that had to be made and moving on it.It stinks but Fox’s contract is going to force the issue if this team doesn’t start competing soon.
Because he has failed to fix the problems we’ve had since Browns first year.I don't know why McNair needs to be fired, unless you think it's his fault that Brown refuses to run defensive schemes that are suited to his personnel?
Dumb question but how is our 3pt defense worse this year than last year? I know it was crap last year too but it seems worse with almost the same personnel. Is it because Jordi left?
Hmm... I thought Brown was at the game and could direct his players in real time. He should know his players are not known for their defense. Maybe providing a little guidance instead of doing a Darvin Ham impression might help?
Because he has failed to fix the problems we’ve had since Browns first year.
Dumb question but how is our 3pt defense worse this year than last year? I know it was crap last year too but it seems worse with almost the same personnel. Is it because Jordi left?
Teams are shooting roughly 6 more 3PA/game vs us compared to the last 2 seasons. So while our 3pt defense has always been trash, we're now scheming 3PA and encouraging teams to shoot more against us.
Woof.
+ 24 points in the paint
+ 20 fast break points
+ 11 second chance points
+ 22 points off turnovers
- 33 points off threes
spurs have two 20 made 3 pointer games out of 20, both against the Kings
This coming from Deuce and Mo
First half: Kings had 5 3PM , Spurs had 13 3PM. Spurs were +8 in 3PM but the Kings won the half by 7 points.
Second half: Kings had 7 3PM, Spurs had 10 3PM. Spurs were +3 in 3PM and the Spurs won the half by 9 points.
To look at the final box score and say that this 3PM gap of +11 in favor of the Spurs tells the full story of the game is just laziness to me. Clearly based on the above data there's more going on here than just an inability on the part of the Kings to shoot threes or defend the 3pt line. As much as it sucks watching a team eat into the Kings lead by making shot after shot outside the 3pt arc, I don't see how anyone can look at the results of these two halves of basketball and conclude that the Kings lost because of 3pt shooting.
If you actually care about why the Kings lost this game, the question to ask and answer is what did the Kings do better in the first half against the Spurs (a half which they won by 7 pts) than they did in the second half (which they lost by 9 pts)?
Defend the 3? Nope. The Spurs shot 13 for 26 in the first half and 10 for 20 in the second half.
Shoot the three? Nope. The Kings shot 5 for 15 in the first half and 7 for 17 in the second half.
So let's stop focusing only on three's and instead look at offensive and defensive efficiency...
OFFENSE:
In the first quarter the Kings had 25 offensive possessions and they scored in 19 of them. (76% efficiency)
In the second quarter the Kings had 27 offensive possessions and they scored in 12 of them. (44% efficiency)
The Kings combined total for the first half was 52 total offensive possessions and they scored points in 31 of them. (59.6% efficiency)
In the third quarter the Kings had 25 offensive possessions and they scored in 14 of them. (56% efficiency)
In the fourth quarter the Kings had 23 offensive possessions and they scored in 13 of them. (56.5% efficiency)
The Kings combined total for the second half was 48 offensive possessions and they scored points in 27 of them. (56.3% efficiency)
DEFENSE:
In the first quarter the Spurs had 27 offensive possessions and they scored in 11 of them. (40.7% efficiency)
In the second quarter the Spurs had 26 offensive possessions and they scored in 11 of them. (42.3% efficiency)
The Spurs combined total for the first half was 53 total offensive possessions and they scored points in 22 of them. (41.5% efficiency)
In the third quarter the Spurs had 25 offensive possessions and they scored in 14 of them. (56% efficiency)
In the fourth quarter the Spurs had 24 offensive possessions and they scored in 16 of them. (66.6% efficiency)
The Spurs combined total for the second half was 49 total offensive possessions and they scored points in 30 of them. (61.2% efficiency)
A couple notes here...
I'm counting trips down the floor as offensive possessions, not shot attempts. If a team gets an offensive rebound and another shot attempt on the same trip down the floor they increase their odds of scoring on that trip but I'm still counting that all as one offensive possession.
In that fourth quarter -- easily the Spurs best quarter on offense -- 5 of those successful possessions came from a 5 minute stretch from 11:10 remaining to 6:11 remaining when the Spurs made 5 trips to the free throw line. This is the stretch which determined the outcome of the game in my opinion. Up to that point in the game the Spurs had been averaging around 46% efficiency on their offensive possessions. If you remove those 5 successful trips their fourth quarter efficiency drops to 45.8%.
I think this data correlates a lot more with the end result than the 3PM data does. The Kings were more efficient at scoring the basketball in the first half and they won the half by 7 points. The Spurs were more efficient at scoring the basketball in the second half -- particularly in the fourth quarter -- and they won the half by 9 points. This is what I've been trying to argue for all season -- valuing possessions and putting any number of points on the board when you have the ball is more important than making sure you get more 3pt shots to fall than your opponent.
I was at tonight’s game.
It’s the three ball again. It’s one thing that the Kings don’t make a lot of threes themselves. But to be pretty much the worst in defending it tells me this season will continue to be disappointing unless there is some big changes.
But I don’t know how much meaningful improvement we can realistically expect in the defensive side of the things. We’re at a place now where teams set season highs seemingly every other game.
We can expect the Kings to shoot the three a little better themselves but I’m expecting at the least a -20 from behind the arch every night at this point.
But this team has definitely stagnated and it’s depressing watching these teams like San Antonio and Houston pass us up when 2 years ago we were hopeful the Kings were on the trajectory to being real contenders by now. But just an unbalanced roster and front office that may be out of ideas.
Other than the loss, it would have been an exciting game to be at and the crowd seemed really engaged. Totally agree with everything you said though, this is beyond frustrating to constantly be giving other teams career nights. Tonight was a new Spurs record…I was at tonight’s game.
It’s the three ball again. It’s one thing that the Kings don’t make a lot of threes themselves. But to be pretty much the worst in defending it tells me this season will continue to be disappointing unless there is some big changes.
But I don’t know how much meaningful improvement we can realistically expect in the defensive side of the things. We’re at a place now where teams set season highs seemingly every other game.
We can expect the Kings to shoot the three a little better themselves but I’m expecting at the least a -20 from behind the arch every night at this point.
But this team has definitely stagnated and it’s depressing watching these teams like San Antonio and Houston pass us up when 2 years ago we were hopeful the Kings were on the trajectory to being real contenders by now. But just an unbalanced roster and front office that may be out of ideas.
First half: Kings had 5 3PM , Spurs had 13 3PM. Spurs were +8 in 3PM but the Kings won the half by 7 points.
Second half: Kings had 7 3PM, Spurs had 10 3PM. Spurs were +3 in 3PM and the Spurs won the half by 9 points.
To look at the final box score and say that this 3PM gap of +11 in favor of the Spurs tells the full story of the game is just laziness to me. Clearly based on the above data there's more going on here than just an inability on the part of the Kings to shoot threes or defend the 3pt line. As much as it sucks watching a team eat into the Kings lead by making shot after shot outside the 3pt arc, I don't see how anyone can look at the results of these two halves of basketball and conclude that the Kings lost because of 3pt shooting.
If you actually care about why the Kings lost this game, the question to ask and answer is what did the Kings do better in the first half against the Spurs (a half which they won by 7 pts) than they did in the second half (which they lost by 9 pts)?
Defend the 3? Nope. The Spurs shot 13 for 26 in the first half and 10 for 20 in the second half.
Shoot the three? Nope. The Kings shot 5 for 15 in the first half and 7 for 17 in the second half.
So let's stop focusing only on three's and instead look at offensive and defensive efficiency...
OFFENSE:
In the first quarter the Kings had 25 offensive possessions and they scored in 19 of them. (76% efficiency)
In the second quarter the Kings had 27 offensive possessions and they scored in 12 of them. (44% efficiency)
The Kings combined total for the first half was 52 total offensive possessions and they scored points in 31 of them. (59.6% efficiency)
In the third quarter the Kings had 25 offensive possessions and they scored in 14 of them. (56% efficiency)
In the fourth quarter the Kings had 23 offensive possessions and they scored in 13 of them. (56.5% efficiency)
The Kings combined total for the second half was 48 offensive possessions and they scored points in 27 of them. (56.3% efficiency)
DEFENSE:
In the first quarter the Spurs had 27 offensive possessions and they scored in 11 of them. (40.7% efficiency)
In the second quarter the Spurs had 26 offensive possessions and they scored in 11 of them. (42.3% efficiency)
The Spurs combined total for the first half was 53 total offensive possessions and they scored points in 22 of them. (41.5% efficiency)
In the third quarter the Spurs had 25 offensive possessions and they scored in 14 of them. (56% efficiency)
In the fourth quarter the Spurs had 24 offensive possessions and they scored in 16 of them. (66.6% efficiency)
The Spurs combined total for the second half was 49 total offensive possessions and they scored points in 30 of them. (61.2% efficiency)
A couple notes here...
I'm counting trips down the floor as offensive possessions, not shot attempts. If a team gets an offensive rebound and another shot attempt on the same trip down the floor they increase their odds of scoring on that trip but I'm still counting that all as one offensive possession.
In that fourth quarter -- easily the Spurs best quarter on offense -- 5 of those successful possessions came from a 5 minute stretch from 11:10 remaining to 6:11 remaining when the Spurs made 5 trips to the free throw line. This is the stretch which determined the outcome of the game in my opinion. Up to that point in the game the Spurs had been averaging around 46% efficiency on their offensive possessions. If you remove those 5 successful trips their fourth quarter efficiency drops to 45.8%.
I think this data correlates a lot more with the end result than the 3PM data does. The Kings were more efficient at scoring the basketball in the first half and they won the half by 7 points. The Spurs were more efficient at scoring the basketball in the second half -- particularly in the fourth quarter -- and they won the half by 9 points. This is what I've been trying to argue for all season -- valuing possessions and putting any number of points on the board when you have the ball is more important than making sure you get more 3pt shots to fall than your opponent.
The Kings can still turn this around with this build but I think they should have followed the Nuggets blueprint in terms of building and as talented as he is I don't think they needed Demar. They needed an Aaron Gordon (Issac Jones showed some of that). It's a shame Jerami Grant was so expensive contract wise.