[Game] Kings v. Rockets - 4-8-12

[swisshh]

In Reke's draft alone, there are five or six guys that have played at his level or better: Blake, Harden, Rubio, Lawson, Jennings and Curry.

I don't see whats so superstar about him. He doesn't have elite athleticism, he doesn't explode to the rim quickly like Westbrook or Rose, doesn't have elite court vision or an outside shot, and basically is a dribble-drive wunderkind. He misses layups because he's become a little worried about contact and injuries, so he takes higher difficulty layups instead of going for the dunk. His defense is inconsistent. All parts of his game suffer form a questionable bball IQ.

So.. where is the amazing talents that puts him up top in the NBA? I'm serious here. His skillset is close to Manu's, but if Manu couldn't shoot and had questionable smarts then he wouldn't be the same great player. This isn't a binary outcome. It's not like a player is either Lebron or Thabeet. There's plenty of Steve Francis and Jerry Stackhouse, and if that's what Reke is then he needs to be approached as such.

 

[vikinginferno]

So was Kevin Martin. Doesn't mean you build a team around him.

I don't think I ever said or implied that we should. Read what I said and that is all that I mean.

 

[kingsnation]

The reason he is not getting better is the same reason MT "developed" when he got here. MT is the same player now as he was when he entered the league. He was absolutely atrocious in NO at the beginning of the season last year because he was not being used correctly, much like Tyreke right now. You put Reke on the right team with a competent coach and the right teammates and he will be great. I bet you could switch him with Westbrook and OKC would still be contending right now. The cost to reward of giving up on Reke right now is just not very good. Like you said, he is a starter in this league and has been since he started playing in the NBA. The best you could do is trade him for a high pick that is a can't miss and I don't think any team does that trade because Evans will never be the number one guy on a contender. Just doesn't have the attitude for it in my opinion. That said, it is difficult to get players of Reke's caliber, especially for small market teams. There have been maybe 5 players in the last 3 drafts that are at the same level as Reke so far. For every Reke, there is an Evan Turner, Derrick Favors, or in the worst case a Hasheem Thabeet.

JT has only slowly but steadily improved since his rookie year. Most players do. I would not say he has broken out. TWill was always talented but needed a change of scenery and a wake up call. I think it has more to do with that than being part of this team. DMC was always going to be great. You could tell from his first summer league game. Great centers can be great without having the right players around them. That is much more difficult for guards since so much of their games revolve around other players. Reke needs the right teammates around him in order to be effective, unlike Cousins. That is why great centers are so important. Just dump the ball into them and get out of the way. Westphal couldn't figure that out and it got him fired. If he is still the coach, we are probably talking about the disappointment that Boogie has been during his 2nd year.

Very well said.

 

[kingsnation]

I don't think I ever said or implied that we should. Read what I said and that is all that I mean.

I responded to the rest of your post.

 

[kingsnation]

In Reke's draft alone, there are five or six guys that have played at his level or better: Blake, Harden, Rubio, Lawson, Jennings and Curry.

I don't see whats so superstar about him. He doesn't have elite athleticism, he doesn't explode to the rim quickly like Westbrook or Rose, doesn't have elite court vision or an outside shot, and basically is a dribble-drive wunderkind. He misses layups because he's become a little worried about contact and injuries, so he takes higher difficulty layups instead of going for the dunk. His defense is inconsistent. All parts of his game suffer form a questionable bball IQ.

So.. where is the amazing talents that puts him up top in the NBA? I'm serious here. His skillset is close to Manu's, but if Manu couldn't shoot and had questionable smarts then he wouldn't be the same great player. This isn't a binary outcome. It's not like a player is either Lebron or Thabeet. There's plenty of Steve Francis and Jerry Stackhouse, and if that's what Reke is then he needs to be approached as such.

I don't believe Reke is a superstar. Potential to be? Sure. However, he is a part of the core that we need moving forward and will, I believe, be essential in creating a winning culture for the Kings.

However, addressing the names above. You can't include Griffin, Harden or Rubio because if Reke had CP3, Durant & Westbrook or Adelman alongside of him, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[vikinginferno]

So was Kevin Martin. Doesn't mean you build a team around him. Thornton is certainly producing better offensively right now. However, he is far from the better player, right now or ever.

Ask 30 NBA owners/GMs these 2 questions:

1. Who would you rather start a franchise with? Reke or MT?

2. Who would you rather have on your team right now? Reke or MT?

30 out of 30 answer Tyreke and there's not even a hesitation. Unfortunately, some Kings Fans just don't see Tyreke's value

Look, I don't think you are understanding what I wrote. I did not write that Thornton is better to start a franchise with than Tyreke or that Thornton would be better to have on a team right now. I was criticizing the ridiculous statement that Thornton is to Tyreke as Hayes is to Cousins and I said Thornton is "quite possibly" better than Tyreke right now(meaning I do not necessarily think that, but it is definitely something that can be argued). I don't know if you didn't even read what I wrote next or just want to use me as a strawman, but I said thatTyreke definitely has a higher ceiling. I'm not arguing that Thornon is better than Tyreke, simply disputing that Thornton is a league below Tyreke.

 

[kingsnation]

Look, I don't think you are understanding what I wrote. I did not write that Thornton is better to start a franchise with than Tyreke or that Thornton would be better to have on a team right now. I was criticizing the ridiculous statement that Thornton is to Tyreke as Hayes is to Cousins and I said Thornton is "quite possibly" better than Tyreke right now(meaning I do not necessarily think that, but it is definitely something that can be argued). I don't know if you didn't even read what I wrote next or just want to use me as a strawman, but I said thatTyreke definitely has a higher ceiling. I'm not arguing that Tyreke is better than Thornton, simply disputing that Thornton is a league below Tyreke.

Yes, I read what you wrote.

Thornton is quite possibly better than Reke RIGHT NOW

And I'm telling you, there's absolutely not even a dispute. There is no grounds for argument because scoring alone doesn't make a player better. Especially since the difference in ppg is only minimal.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I like the minutes for Whiteside in this game.
I hope he consistently gets playing time till the final games.

C - Whiteside
PF - DMC
SF - Barnes
SG - T-Will
PG - Evans

That line-up will destroy teams even if Whiteside could only reach 80% of his potential.
Right now, I think Hassan is still at 40% of what he could contribute to this team.
But his progress this season is phenomenal. Probably a lot has to do with our big man coach.

 

[BMiller52]

I like the minutes for Whiteside in this game.
I hope he consistently gets playing time till the final games.

C - Whiteside
PF - DMC
SF - Barnes
SG - T-Will
PG - Evans

That line-up will destroy teams even if Whiteside could only reach 80% of his potential.
Right now, I think Hassan is still at 40% of what he could contribute to this team.
But his progress this season is phenomenal. Probably a lot has to do with our big man coach.

The shooting in that line up is so awful they wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn and might turn the ball over quite a bit. Defensively would be pretty good though.

 

[ParniValjak]

I like the minutes for Whiteside in this game.
I hope he consistently gets playing time till the final games.

C - Whiteside
PF - DMC
SF - Barnes
SG - T-Will
PG - Evans

That line-up will destroy teams even if Whiteside could only reach 80% of his potential.
Right now, I think Hassan is still at 40% of what he could contribute to this team.
But his progress this season is phenomenal. Probably a lot has to do with our big man coach.

Substitute Batum for Barnes and I am in! Mind you Whiteside has a LONG LONG way to go but he is showing promising signs. I just wish the coach would play him with Cousins for extended minutes to see what we have there which I suspect would be a great pairing provided that Whiteside can guard PFs.

 

[Kingster]

I would like to see him have a James Harden type of role. Coming off the bench and just lighting everyone up with solid defense and running the second unit.

He did have his best game of the year, by far, when he came off the bench. That was against the Utah Jazz. Was that a one-off? Hard to know unless you try it a few times.

 

[Kingster]

Tyreke is not going to do that, not for any length of time. He is gone ina year that way. Sooner really as his camp will request a trade. the only way you can make that work is to instantly start winning big. Becuase otherwise there are numerous teams that will cheerfully start him, and even put the ball in his hands. Settling for scraps behnd inferior players maybe works for us, not for him.

Tyreke looks like he's playing himself off the team. Very reminescent of Kevin Martin.

 

[Spike]

And the team played its worst defense in years.

Testify!
You mean being undersized at three positions isn't a great idea?

I think this roster can be a lot more competitive defensively. We've seen it before, and the thing is, you cannot hang your hat on an offensive-minded structure in the NBA. When the shots don't fall, it's going to be ugly. Defense, contrary to the belief of some who like seeing a lot of points, can always be there, even when your shots aren't falling. Trying to outgun people in a shortened season, with little rest, is a recipe for disaster. Trying to small ball teams, even on a guard heavy team such as ours, is a dumb idea.

Smartball™ worked in fits and spurts because teams didn't expect it full time. Now that it's on tape with regularity, it's easy to stop us.
1. Our rebounding advantage is gone.
2. We've neutralized our best player, so defenses now only have to key in on Cousins. They don't have to worry about Evans breaking down his man.
3. Our "offense" still generally consists of some player being hot and carrying us through game to game. You talk about offensive improvement, but I'll say that it's worse. We just ask guys to shoot. Smarts comments are always about shooting more, being more aggressive, not about running an offense, as it was earlier in the year.

As for Evans not getting any better - it's already been said, and it will continue to be said. He is being misused. Flat out misused by Smart. Evans is trying to make it work, but you can't pull a kid off the ball and ask why he isn't involved on the offensive end. It's not his job to be involved anymore, and that's a waste of talent by the coach. An absolute waste.

Some players have gotten better - if you mean Smart has given them the ball and told them to score. That's about it. Did Jimmer all of a sudden get better, or is he getting more minutes? There's no consistency, no roles, no order, so you'll get individual players spiking from time to time due to Smart "riding out the hot streak", as opposed to consistency from players knowing their roles and responsibilities. This is actually a recipe for disaster, for each player looking to get their own because that is how Smart hopes we will win each game. He doesn't know who he can count out because he keeps trying to find someone new, rather than work with the talent he has and let it mature in a structured way.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Testify!
You mean being undersized at three positions isn't a great idea?

I think this roster can be a lot more competitive defensively. We've seen it before, and the thing is, you cannot hang your hat on an offensive-minded structure in the NBA. When the shots don't fall, it's going to be ugly. Defense, contrary to the belief of some who like seeing a lot of points, can always be there, even when your shots aren't falling. Trying to outgun people in a shortened season, with little rest, is a recipe for disaster. Trying to small ball teams, even on a guard heavy team such as ours, is a dumb idea.

Smartball™ worked in fits and spurts because teams didn't expect it full time. Now that it's on tape with regularity, it's easy to stop us.
1. Our rebounding advantage is gone.
2. We've neutralized our best player, so defenses now only have to key in on Cousins. They don't have to worry about Evans breaking down his man.
3. Our "offense" still generally consists of some player being hot and carrying us through game to game. You talk about offensive improvement, but I'll say that it's worse. We just ask guys to shoot. Smarts comments are always about shooting more, being more aggressive, not about running an offense, as it was earlier in the year.

As for Evans not getting any better - it's already been said, and it will continue to be said. He is being misused. Flat out misused by Smart. Evans is trying to make it work, but you can't pull a kid off the ball and ask why he isn't involved on the offensive end. It's not his job to be involved anymore, and that's a waste of talent by the coach. An absolute waste.

Some players have gotten better - if you mean Smart has given them the ball and told them to score. That's about it. Did Jimmer all of a sudden get better, or is he getting more minutes? There's no consistency, no roles, no order, so you'll get individual players spiking from time to time due to Smart "riding out the hot streak", as opposed to consistency from players knowing their roles and responsibilities. This is actually a recipe for disaster, for each player looking to get their own because that is how Smart hopes we will win each game. He doesn't know who he can count out because he keeps trying to find someone new, rather than work with the talent he has and let it mature in a structured way.

I agree with this premise, but I can only give the 'he's not be used right' excuse SO much of the credit until we put some of this on Tyreke. And I feel like anytime I say anything remotely negative about Tyreke I'll get labeled as a 'hater' and 10 Reke defenders will accuse me of liking him at SF, or playing small ball, or any of that other garbage. I am ONLY talking about Tyreke here.

He hasn't played well in 2 seasons! And I use well as a relative term because he played so fantastic in his rookie year. He set the bar so high. When is it ok to say that what I just said is wrong? When is it ok to say 'He IS playing well right now' because this is who he is? If someone like Honeycutt was playing how Evans was playing we'd be talking about how good he looks, because we have nothing to compare it too. Evans set the bar high and hasn't reached that mark since. So maybe, just maybe, he's playing like he's going to play for a long time.

If Tyreke was a 'no bones about it' All-Star caliber player, Thomas wouldn't have taken his starting PG role and Thornton wouldn't be the guy keeping him from moving over to SG full time.

And I'm not even sure if I believe this is the real Tyreke Evans, I'm just proposing a potential scenario. I think he'd be better with a different cast around him .. but I think that about a lot of players. I think Thornton would be better with defenders who can cover his man when he gets beat. I think Cousins would benefit from playing with guys who can actually shoot when he gets doubled.

The bottom line is that this team doesn't work as is. This off season will be the most important one we've had in a while.

 

[Spike]

If Tyreke was a 'no bones about it' All-Star caliber player, Thomas wouldn't have taken his starting PG role and Thornton wouldn't be the guy keeping him from moving over to SG full time.

How much of this, though, relates to the fact that Smart prefers a smaller unit? He's now routinely had a four guard lineup in his games, so you can't say that he's doing it because he has to. He's doing it because he wants to. He wants to be smaller, he wants to outscore the oppostion. I don't see it as Evans losing his starting PG spot to Thomas, but rather Smart wanting three guards in the lineup. As such, IT is now the primary ball-handler, so he's getting the touches, things are going through him now, by design. It's not that he's better - certainly not. It's that he has the ball in his hands now. That's all there is to it. It's not so much a regression or lack of developing skills, but it's a neutering by the coach. This year should have been about long term growth and development by the two players we assumed would be the core. Smart took that away from one of our players who is still learning (and younger than IT, btw.)

Evans last year was pretty significantly injured. I know people want to ignore that fact. But if you think back to the last month when everyone was healthy, it was a pretty potent team defensively, and didn't look too bad offensively. I agree that this off-season is of great importance, but only because management totally screwed up the last one. We took away veteran leadership and replaced it with youth. This team doesn't need to get any younger.

 

[Kingster]

I agree with this premise, but I can only give the 'he's not be used right' excuse SO much of the credit until we put some of this on Tyreke. And I feel like anytime I say anything remotely negative about Tyreke I'll get labeled as a 'hater' and 10 Reke defenders will accuse me of liking him at SF, or playing small ball, or any of that other garbage. I am ONLY talking about Tyreke here.

He hasn't played well in 2 seasons! And I use well as a relative term because he played so fantastic in his rookie year. He set the bar so high. When is it ok to say that what I just said is wrong? When is it ok to say 'He IS playing well right now' because this is who he is? If someone like Honeycutt was playing how Evans was playing we'd be talking about how good he looks, because we have nothing to compare it too. Evans set the bar high and hasn't reached that mark since. So maybe, just maybe, he's playing like he's going to play for a long time.

If Tyreke was a 'no bones about it' All-Star caliber player, Thomas wouldn't have taken his starting PG role and Thornton wouldn't be the guy keeping him from moving over to SG full time.

And I'm not even sure if I believe this is the real Tyreke Evans, I'm just proposing a potential scenario. I think he'd be better with a different cast around him .. but I think that about a lot of players. I think Thornton would be better with defenders who can cover his man when he gets beat. I think Cousins would benefit from playing with guys who can actually shoot when he gets doubled.

The bottom line is that this team doesn't work as is. This off season will be the most important one we've had in a while.

You're post is too reasonable, too well thought out. If Tyreke either gets traded (the scenario I think gets more likely by the day) or moves on of his own accord, be ready for the "well you wanted him to be gone, now you've got what you wanted" chorus.....

 

[Bricklayer]

You're post is too reasonable, too well thought out. If Tyreke either gets traded (the scenario I think gets more likely by the day) or moves on of his own accord, be ready for the "well you wanted him to be gone, now you've got what you wanted" chorus.....

oh you betcha, and you are well to fear it. Its a lot more fun to constantly cut on a guy without consequences then it is to face the music if you actually succeed. Reke may oblige you and never get over the hump. Or he may make you look like a blithering idiot, and no true Kings fan is going to thank you and yours for chasing away a player they are going to be watching on TV constantly in big games.

the kicker to that latter scenario is of course how DeMarcus reacts to it. If Reke does blow up, and if predictably we are never able to acquire a similar level talent to replace him, how many years until Boogie, who will be constantly bombarded by his peeps, buy players around the league, agents, press and anybody else, starts to resent our stupidity same way that Dwight has come to in Orlando. Yo don't get your star an elite wingman, you don't get over the top. You actually have an elite wingman for your star and then stupidly give him away, you may eventually lose your star as well. The petty cattiness of a certain breed of Kings fan pales in comparison to the potential consequences for the franchise.

 

[VF21]

I agree with this premise, but I can only give the 'he's not be used right' excuse SO much of the credit until we put some of this on Tyreke. And I feel like anytime I say anything remotely negative about Tyreke I'll get labeled as a 'hater' and 10 Reke defenders will accuse me of liking him at SF, or playing small ball, or any of that other garbage. I am ONLY talking about Tyreke here.

He hasn't played well in 2 seasons! And I use well as a relative term because he played so fantastic in his rookie year. He set the bar so high. When is it ok to say that what I just said is wrong? When is it ok to say 'He IS playing well right now' because this is who he is? If someone like Honeycutt was playing how Evans was playing we'd be talking about how good he looks, because we have nothing to compare it too. Evans set the bar high and hasn't reached that mark since. So maybe, just maybe, he's playing like he's going to play for a long time.

If Tyreke was a 'no bones about it' All-Star caliber player, Thomas wouldn't have taken his starting PG role and Thornton wouldn't be the guy keeping him from moving over to SG full time.

And I'm not even sure if I believe this is the real Tyreke Evans, I'm just proposing a potential scenario. I think he'd be better with a different cast around him .. but I think that about a lot of players. I think Thornton would be better with defenders who can cover his man when he gets beat. I think Cousins would benefit from playing with guys who can actually shoot when he gets doubled.

The bottom line is that this team doesn't work as is. This off season will be the most important one we've had in a while.

I actually agree with this assessment, particularly the last two sentences. THIS TEAM DOESN'T WORK AS IS. Until we fix some gaping holes in the roster, no one is going to play up to their potential. This is playground basketball, and it's often painful to watch.

Bottom line for me is that I still blame the Maloofs. We're arguing over pieces and parts because they wouldn't/couldn't open the purse strings and let Petrie get the caliber of player we need.

 

[Glenn]

I actually agree with this assessment, particularly the last two sentences. THIS TEAM DOESN'T WORK AS IS. Until we fix some gaping holes in the roster, no one is going to play up to their potential. This is playground basketball, and it's often painful to watch.

Bottom line for me is that I still blame the Maloofs. We're arguing over pieces and parts because they wouldn't/couldn't open the purse strings and let Petrie get the caliber of player we need.

At the least I think the failure of the Kings to be a success is at the feet of the Maloofs and not because of Tyreke's jump shot.

 

[Spike]

THIS TEAM DOESN'T WORK AS IS. Until we fix some gaping holes in the roster, no one is going to play up to their potential. This is playground basketball, and it's often painful to watch.

Bottom line for me is that I still blame the Maloofs. We're arguing over pieces and parts because they wouldn't/couldn't open the purse strings and let Petrie get the caliber of player we need.

And I agree with this!

 

[Kingster]

oh you betcha, and you are well to fear it. Its a lot more fun to constantly cut on a guy without consequences then it is to face the music if you actually succeed. Reke may oblige you and never get over the hump. Or he may make you look like a blithering idiot, and no true Kings fan is going to thank you and yours for chasing away a player they are going to be watching on TV constantly in big games.

the kicker to that latter scenario is of course how DeMarcus reacts to it. If Reke does blow up, and if predictably we are never able to acquire a similar level talent to replace him, how many years until Boogie, who will be constantly bombarded by his peeps, buy players around the league, agents, press and anybody else, starts to resent our stupidity same way that Dwight has come to in Orlando. Yo don't get your star an elite wingman, you don't get over the top. You actually have an elite wingman for your star and then stupidly give him away, you may eventually lose your star as well. The petty cattiness of a certain breed of Kings fan pales in comparison to the potential consequences for the franchise.

Nice of you to confirm my hunch.

Gladly, my opinion on this board has absolutely nothing to do with Tyreke's future. Unlike management, I can't see what goes on behind the scenes on a daily basis. And yes, my last name isn't Petrie. I guess you ascribe more power to me and those who subscribe to similar opinions of mine than we actually have. Hence, your threats of retribution. Tyreke's future is in the hands of management and Tyreke. I just have an opinion that that probability of him being traded is going up. If that really bothers you, then that's your problem. If he is traded, I hope we get good value for him.

Have a nice day.

Kingster

 

[Tyndel]

I actually agree with this assessment, particularly the last two sentences. THIS TEAM DOESN'T WORK AS IS. Until we fix some gaping holes in the roster, no one is going to play up to their potential. This is playground basketball, and it's often painful to watch.

Bottom line for me is that I still blame the Maloofs. We're arguing over pieces and parts because they wouldn't/couldn't open the purse strings and let Petrie get the caliber of player we need.

Then the next question is this. Is the team playing as well as it can with the pieces we already have? What about the last 2 years?

Do we have holes in our roster sure but have we worked with the pieces we have and played to their strengths? I don't think so. Not even with cousins. Do you see us feature cousins passing in any way? Have we designed a cutting offense screens and movers when cousins gets doubled at the mid or low block? Nope its iso ball throw down low and expect a second year to make the right choice with it....

 

[ParniValjak]

Nice of you to confirm my hunch.

Gladly, my opinion on this board has absolutely nothing to do with Tyreke's future. Unlike management, I can't see what goes on behind the scenes on a daily basis. And yes, my last name isn't Petrie. I guess you ascribe more power to me and those who subscribe to similar opinions of mine than we actually have. Hence, your threats of retribution. Tyreke's future is in the hands of management and Tyreke. I just have an opinion that that probability of him being traded is going up. If that really bothers you, then that's your problem. If he is traded, I hope we get good value for him.

Have a nice day.

Kingster

Bit of a cop out there!

Your vitriol against Tyreke over the years is tiring and if the scenario that Bicklayer has laid out eventuates, then be prepared and be man enough to cop what is coming. You think your opinion and the opinion of fans like you do not count?! Think again! It is precisely the public pressure that will guide the team in trading away a player or sacking a coach. Because we have a certain bunch of uneducated peanuts who think that booing Tyreke when he is not having a good game is the way to go (as has happened earlier this year at PBP) then of course it is going to impact the decision making.

But at least be a man enough to stand up and cop it but for some reason my hunch tells the that all the any Tyreke prima-donas around here will be no where to be see. Just like there anti-Adelman peanuts are no where to be seen. The fan base was turning on Adelman a few year ago and wanted him gone and what we have seen since then is a failure upon failure upon failure at the coaching position. It will be exactly the same thing with player personnel but those most vocal against Tyreke will be hiding under a rock and looking for their next target to blame and it just might be Cousins that is next on the list because people cannot see the forest from the trees and suffer from the toll poppy syndrome.

 

[Prince_XY]

I actually agree with this assessment, particularly the last two sentences. THIS TEAM DOESN'T WORK AS IS. Until we fix some gaping holes in the roster, no one is going to play up to their potential. This is playground basketball, and it's often painful to watch.

Bottom line for me is that I still blame the Maloofs. We're arguing over pieces and parts because they wouldn't/couldn't open the purse strings and let Petrie get the caliber of player we need.

Why do we blame the woes of the team solely on the Maloofs?

I think the blame should be more on Petrie who assembled these pieces that does not fit each other. It does not matter how cheap the Maloofs were. If Petrie just spent the money on the right kind of players that fit, the Kings team will be a functional one. So, stop directing all the blame to the owners. Direct most of the blame on Petrie.

 

[VF21]

Then the next question is this. Is the team playing as well as it can with the pieces we already have? What about the last 2 years?

Do we have holes in our roster sure but have we worked with the pieces we have and played to their strengths? I don't think so. Not even with cousins. Do you see us feature cousins passing in any way? Have we designed a cutting offense screens and movers when cousins gets doubled at the mid or low block? Nope its iso ball throw down low and expect a second year to make the right choice with it....

My ongoing comment is that we do not, in fact, have a team. We have a bunch of players who do not fit together well, have not developed an identity for a variety of reasons (including the relative youth and inexperience of many of them), and who were severely hampered last year and the first part of this year by a coach who seemed to dissolve into someone who didn't give a damn right in front of us.

It's easy to make armchair decisions about coaching but I think our main problem can be summed up thusly:

When you're up to your arse in alligators it's hard to remember your original objective was to drain the swamp.

 

[Glenn]

Why do we blame the woes of the team solely on the Maloofs?

I think the blame should be more on Petrie who assembled these pieces that does not fit each other. It does not matter how cheap the Maloofs were. If Petrie just spent the money on the right kind of players that fit, the Kings team will be a functional one. So, stop directing all the blame to the owners. Direct most of the blame on Petrie.

Do you think you can great players if not allowed to pay for them?

 

[VF21]

Do you think you can great players if not allowed to pay for them?

Of course you can. And you can convince free agents to come to Sacramento just because you want them here.

 

[rainmaker]

Do you think you can great players if not allowed to pay for them?

My opinion is, the Maloofs being short on funds prevents us from getting the better FA's.

But Petrie is at fault for wasting money on Hayes/Outlaw, and taking on Salmons contract, when on a tight budget. If the mavs offered Chuck that contract it wouldn't look half as bad because Cuban will spend and they already have a large payroll. But when you have the lowest payroll two years running, throwing 22M at Hayes really hurts. That's on Petrie. If the Maloofs are broke you don't throw away a combined owed 34M to the Hayes/Outlaw duet. Should have tossed a larger chunk at AK or Daly instead. As with government, a huge problem isn't having the funds,but how those funds are allocated. Please don't throw away tens of millions and then complain about being broke.

 

[ParniValjak]

Do you think you can great players if not allowed to pay for them?

I don't think you can. However, you can be more selective on who you spend your "mid-money" on. For example, just this off-season we have committed to paying Salmons roughly $8million per season over the next 3 years (I think its 3) and gave up Beno for who was about a $1million cheaper per season and had a year less to run on the deal. That in itself was not a smart move.

Then we move on the Outlaw. We have committed $3million per season over the next 4 years. He has not looked like earning that money. Now Travis might very well come back and be a bargain at that price but at this point in time, it looks like a big mistake and one that we are stuck with for the next 3 seasons. While the contract itself is not big, based on Outlaw's production to this point, its unmovable!

Now on to the good ol' Chuck!Talk about overpaying. 4 years and $22 million for an average player who just does not fit. Does not make anyone better and who himself is a limited player. During the off-season alone, we have blown some $9 million on players that do not fit, nor do they make us better. For $9million, you can get an impact player that does make you better. A Kirilenko type, a Dalembert type (and have some change left over) and a few other good players that could make us better.

I appreciate that Petrie has had the purse strings tightened so he cannot get the top notch talent BUT he has not done well with what he has been allowed to do. He has spend smaller money on lesser players who do not make us better but the bottom line is that with what he was allowed to spend, we have managed to turn that into unmovable contracts for the next 3 years. Salmons ($8million), Chuck ($4million) and Outlaw ($3million) add up to $13 million per season for the next 3 seasons. That is one heck of weight to carry around the neck especially considering that the spending is limited so we are hamstrung for at least the next 2.5 years where these contracts might become useful as expiring deals at the deadline. To me that is a major problem to have.

San Antonio or OKC have not overspend on FAs but the little they have spent, they have spent on the right type of player that makes them better or at least brings something productive to their team. We have done something completely opposite. I know people will say yes but OKC and SA are contenders, well once upon a time OKC was in exactly the same position as we are but they have used their cap smartly and have brought in the right type of players to complement their team.

 

[Tyndel]

My ongoing comment is that we do not, in fact, have a team. We have a bunch of players who do not fit together well, have not developed an identity for a variety of reasons (including the relative youth and inexperience of many of them), and who were severely hampered last year and the first part of this year by a coach who seemed to dissolve into someone who didn't give a damn right in front of us.

It's easy to make armchair decisions about coaching but I think our main problem can be summed up thusly:

When you're up to your arse in alligators it's hard to remember your original objective was to drain the swamp.

So if players don't fit together from birth by default its useless trying to create a system for them and you should just wait till the next draft to get your tank pick and get a free agent to sign in a place good free agents don't sign.

My point was we have the players we have are we using them correctly? In 10 games we can see about getting better/different or in the case of last off season worse players then we had but right now we aren't doing as much as we can with the players we have. We aren't even tanking with our rookies correctly 1 minute for THoney and this was the first game WS got any reasonable minutes.

A good coach/GM can take almost any players and get them to play average ball. We can't of course but we have our priorities wrong. At least we are getting closer to the next big draft pick.... problems solved with that perfect fit.

So if we get the 1st pick all our players not fitting will work right? Oh right we are going to sign an over priced over the hill declining vet to get us that extra 1/2 step. Then what? We still have the same problems we have this year. Are we going to blow up the team with offseason? Ship Reke out? We are seeing Reke and IT can't start together if we get rid of reke does all our offensive problems go away? No you have to take the players you have at that point and make them fit. No peg is the right shape so its the job of the coach and the GM to hammer them in the holes available.

I liked the moves Smart made for his first few weeks. I didn't understand continuing to start Salmons when he wasn't contributing and playing Outlaw when he failed to be productive but other then that he was pushing the team toward progress now we have some big problems and as long as he is our coach we will continue to have those problems because he is concentrating on the wrong priorities. I can no long sit through a full Kings game. I keep it running in the back ground and check back in every few but our brand of ball isn't as interesting as what we had at the end of last year or before we turned our back on defense this year. It was fun watching Cousins turn the ball over 4 times a game trying to pass to cutters because you could see what could be and it was fun going from no system with WP to seeing a basic system start with Smart and Rekes assists jump up every game and then.... small ball....

We have the players we have lets make them work together first and then worry about adding and subtracting or subtracting by adding...