[Game] Kings v Clippers - Tuesday, Dec. 31

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Kingster

Hall of Famer
#92
I just can't envision Hield being the starting 2G of the future. The Kings need a starting 2-guard, either Justin James, or a player acquired in a trade, or drafted in the future. Hield doesn't have the brains for it. He'll make the most inopportune turnover with the most devastating consequences in the most ridiculous fashion that you can dream up. Think of Buddy Hield. Now think of Buddy Hield dribbling against Paul George. Could anything be more ridiculous? It's a true LOL moment. Yeah, I know. Kawhi Leonard could be worse. I confess I was surprised Buddy didn't wait for the "right" moment to drive against Leonard. Maybe he's saving that one up for the next Clipps game.
 
#93
I can't imagine thinking that Harrison Barnes was going to become a different player, just because he got a bag. He's good enough to start in the NBA, that's it, and that's all.

If you look at the total length of the contract, instead of focusing on that Year One money, he's not even really overpaid. They gave him, maybe, a little bit more, because of the "Sacramento Tax," but 4/85 is just about the going rate for that level of production, in 2020.
For a few games it looked like the Kings might get what they paid for....those were fleeting. Barnes is looking pretty inconsistent and yes overpaid. Not as bad as Hill, but his shooting has looked incompetent besides FTs. It's not only Barnes, but when he starts shooting like Shumpart, it makes you wonder what might've been if they did no tinkering. The early season team last was more competitive than this mess. This team is on par with joergers first year team.
 
#94
Here’s the reality. Besides having a superstar, to win in today’s NBA a franchise must collect as many players as they can that can both shoot and handle the ball at a high level. Average to high BBIQ also helps.

When the Warriors were winning, they had 5 dudes on the floor that could handle the ball and shoot it at a high level. Like their supposed ‘death squad’. Draymond and Iggy weren’t great shooters, but they were good enough considering the other all world shooters they had. But all 5 could handle the ball extremely well and pass.

If you look around the league, pretty much every elite team has the same.

So what about the KINGS? They really don’t have one player that does both things at a high level.

Maybe Bogdanovic. But he never stops playing year around and is always broken down.

Buddy? Can shoot it (usually) but can’t handle it well enough. Also makes too many BBIQ mistakes.

Swipa? Can certainly handle it and create shots, but can’t shoot it consistently at a high level.

Barnes? Probably the 2nd best KINGS player at doing both. But really doesn’t handle well enough to create.

Bagley? He’s never been projected as a ball handler or shooter. He’s an athletic post player. That’s oft injured.

Probably the next best candidate they have in terms of development is Justin James. He’s shown enough to me already that he just might become an above average shooter and ball handler. But who knows.

Circling back to the point, until the KINGS begin finding and actually drafting/acquiring players with both these skills — they are going to continue to miss the postseason.

Hopefully Swipa can develop his shot to the point where he becomes above average in both regards. There’s one player. Hopefully Bogie can learn to throttle down his year around competition to remain healthy and fresh. There’s two players.

But where are the rest? Maybe James. I don‘t see Buddy ever handling and passing it as well as he needs to.

Richaun Holmes can be an exception, as he largely plays near the rim and does have a reliable go to shot. He’s also displayed BBIQ and passing skills. Not bad for a big.

Whoever the GM is going forward, Vlade or someone else, I firmly believe they need to focus their draft efforts on players that have both these skills. Not doing so will lead to further repeats of the 2018 draft blunder.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#95
For a few games it looked like the Kings might get what they paid for....those were fleeting. Barnes is looking pretty inconsistent and yes overpaid...
Except he's not overpaid. His field goal percentage is down, yes, but that's about what that level of production costs in today's NBA. Like I said, he got maybe an 8% pay hike, because of the "Sacramento Tax" but, that aside, that's about exactly the amount of money that the Kings should expect to have to pay a league-average free agent small forward.
 
#96
So... quick thoughts having not watched in a month or so.

Fox didn’t add any imprint, but still may be hurt according to commentary. But “imprint guy” may have had a point. How long do we need to ask “When’s he going to take over the game like we know he can?”

Hield sucks now.

Barnes is an invisible man.

Bjelica is like Barnes.

Holmes is a-okay in my book.



HG can help the team. I really hope he isn’t phased out when Bagley returns.

I miss when Bogi was a rookie and seemed like a high-IQ, crafty, intangible player.

The rest bench crew were unimpressive.
Not having a jump shot is hurting Fox he’s really not imprinting the game I was waiting for him to take over
 
#97
Except he's not overpaid. His field goal percentage is down, yes, but that's about what that level of production costs in today's NBA. Like I said, he got maybe an 8% pay hike, because of the "Sacramento Tax" but, that aside, that's about exactly the amount of money that the Kings should expect to have to pay a league-average free agent small forward.
What’s sad is as much as we’re paying him we’re getting about the same production as what Alec Burks is giving the Warriors
 
#98
Here’s the reality. Besides having a superstar, to win in today’s NBA a franchise must collect as many players as they can that can both shoot and handle the ball at a high level. Average to high BBIQ also helps.

When the Warriors were winning, they had 5 dudes on the floor that could handle the ball and shoot it at a high level. Like their supposed ‘death squad’. Draymond and Iggy weren’t great shooters, but they were good enough considering the other all world shooters they had. But all 5 could handle the ball extremely well and pass.

If you look around the league, pretty much every elite team has the same.

So what about the KINGS? They really don’t have one player that does both things at a high level.

Maybe Bogdanovic. But he never stops playing year around and is always broken down.

Buddy? Can shoot it (usually) but can’t handle it well enough. Also makes too many BBIQ mistakes.

Swipa? Can certainly handle it and create shots, but can’t shoot it consistently at a high level.

Barnes? Probably the 2nd best KINGS player at doing both. But really doesn’t handle well enough to create.

Bagley? He’s never been projected as a ball handler or shooter. He’s an athletic post player. That’s oft injured.

Probably the next best candidate they have in terms of development is Justin James. He’s shown enough to me already that he just might become an above average shooter and ball handler. But who knows.

Circling back to the point, until the KINGS begin finding and actually drafting/acquiring players with both these skills — they are going to continue to miss the postseason.

Hopefully Swipa can develop his shot to the point where he becomes above average in both regards. There’s one player. Hopefully Bogie can learn to throttle down his year around competition to remain healthy and fresh. There’s two players.

But where are the rest? Maybe James. I don‘t see Buddy ever handling and passing it as well as he needs to.

Richaun Holmes can be an exception, as he largely plays near the rim and does have a reliable go to shot. He’s also displayed BBIQ and passing skills. Not bad for a big.

Whoever the GM is going forward, Vlade or someone else, I firmly believe they need to focus their draft efforts on players that have both these skills. Not doing so will lead to further repeats of the 2018 draft blunder.
You sound like you want Geoff Petrie back as GM:) IMO Vivek would have done well to retain GP when he came in.
 
#99
Not having a jump shot is hurting Fox he’s really not imprinting the game I was waiting for him to take over
Yeah, he’s deferring to Buddy/Bogi too much. Especially Buddy. Buddy talks a whole lot for a guy who rarely knows where his man is. But, he’s proven to be a cry baby when he gets told to shut up and do his job, so I don’t know how Fox can manage him.

The other thing he needs to do is go to the bucket with malice aforethought, and force the officials to make a call: block or charge. Guys his height can’t be euro-stepping through the paint and consistently get shots off. Fox is too nice on the court. He needs to be more Iverson, less Curry.
 
You sound like you want Geoff Petrie back as GM:) IMO Vivek would have done well to retain GP when he came in.
Yeah, I was gonna mention GP and the team he assembled that happens to be the only relevant team we’ve ever had — but I held back.

That team had no true superstars, and was likely ahead of its time. They’d fit in quite well today. At least 7-8 players that could all pass, dribble and shoot at a high level.
 
Not having a jump shot is hurting Fox he’s really not imprinting the game I was waiting for him to take over
Thing is, he should be a better shooter than he is. He just lacks confidence for whatever reasons. I’ve seen him play since HS and he used to be a better more confident shooter. He doesn’t at all have a broken shot.

Wish he could figure it out and be more assertive.

Not being a good shooter never seemed to hurt Russell Westbrook’s confidence. And Swipa can shoot it better than him. And better than Tyreke when he was in SAC.
 
Here’s the reality. Besides having a superstar, to win in today’s NBA a franchise must collect as many players as they can that can both shoot and handle the ball at a high level. Average to high BBIQ also helps.

When the Warriors were winning, they had 5 dudes on the floor that could handle the ball and shoot it at a high level. Like their supposed ‘death squad’. Draymond and Iggy weren’t great shooters, but they were good enough considering the other all world shooters they had. But all 5 could handle the ball extremely well and pass.

If you look around the league, pretty much every elite team has the same.

So what about the KINGS? They really don’t have one player that does both things at a high level.

Maybe Bogdanovic. But he never stops playing year around and is always broken down.

Buddy? Can shoot it (usually) but can’t handle it well enough. Also makes too many BBIQ mistakes.

Swipa? Can certainly handle it and create shots, but can’t shoot it consistently at a high level.

Barnes? Probably the 2nd best KINGS player at doing both. But really doesn’t handle well enough to create.

Bagley? He’s never been projected as a ball handler or shooter. He’s an athletic post player. That’s oft injured.

Probably the next best candidate they have in terms of development is Justin James. He’s shown enough to me already that he just might become an above average shooter and ball handler. But who knows.

Circling back to the point, until the KINGS begin finding and actually drafting/acquiring players with both these skills — they are going to continue to miss the postseason.

Hopefully Swipa can develop his shot to the point where he becomes above average in both regards. There’s one player. Hopefully Bogie can learn to throttle down his year around competition to remain healthy and fresh. There’s two players.

But where are the rest? Maybe James. I don‘t see Buddy ever handling and passing it as well as he needs to.

Richaun Holmes can be an exception, as he largely plays near the rim and does have a reliable go to shot. He’s also displayed BBIQ and passing skills. Not bad for a big.

Whoever the GM is going forward, Vlade or someone else, I firmly believe they need to focus their draft efforts on players that have both these skills. Not doing so will lead to further repeats of the 2018 draft blunder.
Aptly summarized.
 
You sound like you want Geoff Petrie back as GM:) IMO Vivek would have done well to retain GP when he came in.
I love it. Geoff petrie is the best GM we've ever had and it's not close. I question anyone who wouldnt take him back with open arms. Unfortunately, I think he'd be crazy to get involved with this crap show at this point. I think joe dumars is the likely next man up.
 
I guess. But I'm pretty sure that, if Burks hadn't played himself off the Jazz, he'd be making more than league minimum right now.
The fact is Barnes is paid in the top 10 of SFs. When he’s the first or second option, he shows what he’s capable of. He was playing great until Fox came back. Since then, his shooting and production have greatly dropped off (and is what we saw last year). This is consistent with who he is and was evident with the Warriors and Mavs. Some players shine in a supporting role, he doesn’t for some reason
 
Funny how with some folks Fox always gets a free pass, when in all reality the team this season has played better without him. Yet it's Buddy's fault, Barnes' fault, Bogi's etc..

This forum has devolved to a pit of whining and b*tching about the same things over and over again by a same handful of posters, some of whom don't even watch the games and just check box scores. Even when this team was way worse the discussions were far better. Why don't we just leave a sticky "should have picked Doncic, Buddy has low IQ, trade everyone sans Fox" and shut down the site for the rest of the season?
 
The fact is Barnes is paid in the top 10 of SFs. When he’s the first or second option, he shows what he’s capable of. He was playing great until Fox came back. Since then, his shooting and production have greatly dropped off (and is what we saw last year). This is consistent with who he is and was evident with the Warriors and Mavs. Some players shine in a supporting role, he doesn’t for some reason
Stop it man, Barnes is who he’s always been he’s not changing now dudes not a first or second option
 
The idea of Harrison Barnes far exceeds the reality of Harrison Barnes. Should have been better than he is.

Great guy, solid player, but underwhelming and doesn't help you win. It's weird he doesn't really make you lose either but he's just sort of there taking up a starting roster spot and not doing enough to make a difference. Especially when it matters in crunch time he really vanishes.

All these members here were giddy that Vlade seemingly ripped off Dallas but Dallas didn't care. Granted I think they hoped Justin Jackson didn't suck as much as he does but they traded Barnes just to free up cap space to hopefully sign a real difference maker.

Barnes makes borderline "difference maker" money but doesn't provide the actual difference. We saw it last year, the Kings upgraded in talent by trading for him and yet somehow got worse.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Deliberate? I get league pass, if I wanted to I could watch them every game. Just been watching snippets of games. I must be missing something.
I don't know why you appear to be getting defensive about this. "Deliberate" is an assessment, not an accusation. And you kind of proved my point: if you pay for League Pass, and you haven't seen Milwaukee all season, the only reasonable conclusion is that you've made the decision not to watch them, on purpose. Even taking the time zone into account, Milwaukee's played two games on the west coast, so far, and both of them were on nights that the Kings didn't play.
 
Funny how with some folks Fox always gets a free pass, when in all reality the team this season has played better without him. Yet it's Buddy's fault, Barnes' fault, Bogi's etc..

This forum has devolved to a pit of whining and b*tching about the same things over and over again by a same handful of posters, some of whom don't even watch the games and just check box scores. Even when this team was way worse the discussions were far better. Why don't we just leave a sticky "should have picked Doncic, Buddy has low IQ, trade everyone sans Fox" and shut down the site for the rest of the season?
You nailed it. Deaaron fox sucks and theres absolutely no reason to ride out his development. I mean, he's already 20, so we may as well call it. I have it from high authority that the site is in fact shut down for the rest of the season. No reason to check back.
 
Hopefully the crap about Kings playing to their level of competition is blown out of the water, they're just a bad team who like every other team in the last 10 years win games against a good team and loss a bunch after.

The Kings have no one that's elite in the halfcourt breaking down the offense and I include Fox in that he was getting cut off like nothing today, he lacks the craftiness and hesitations to be able to do it. Holmes/Bjelica/Buddy need guys to break down the d for them to thrive or at least have defenders scrambling on close outs which allows them to once again create.

Holmes is a beast the only reason the Kings are even without 10-20 points in most games.

The Clippers broadcast had a thing asking "Is Sacramento the worst team of the decade" no one argued against.
 
I don't know why you appear to be getting defensive about this. "Deliberate" is an assessment, not an accusation. And you kind of proved my point: if you pay for League Pass, and you haven't seen Milwaukee all season, the only reasonable conclusion is that you've made the decision not to watch them, on purpose. Even taking the time zone into account, Milwaukee's played two games on the west coast, so far, and both of them were on nights that the Kings didn't play.
Lol
 
Except he's not overpaid. His field goal percentage is down, yes, but that's about what that level of production costs in today's NBA. Like I said, he got maybe an 8% pay hike, because of the "Sacramento Tax" but, that aside, that's about exactly the amount of money that the Kings should expect to have to pay a league-average free agent small forward.
He's certainly overpaid for this slump and even before. He hasn't earned his paycheck for at least 8 of 13 games where he scored above his 15ppg average. He's also had some complete DUD games of at least 5 where his stats are of a bum - he shouldn't have even made 1/4 of his salary paid in those duds . Contrast that to the first 20 games where he only had 2 DUD games, and there's certainly a correlative and additive affect from his play to the team's slump. The egg is going to be on the Kings management soon if the duds keep coming out at the new clip.
 
I give some of the credit for tonight's poor Kings performance to the Clippers. They are a brutal team to have to play. Lots of guys who usually play well all having an off game on the same night is probably not a coincidence.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
He's certainly overpaid for this slump and even before. He hasn't earned his paycheck for at least 8 of 13 games where he scored above his 15ppg average. He's also had some complete DUD games of at least 5 where his stats are of a bum - he shouldn't have even made 1/4 of his salary paid in those duds . Contrast that to the first 20 games where he only had 2 DUD games, and there's certainly a correlative and additive affect from his play to the team's slump...
That's not how "overpaid" works.
 
Barnes is overpaid no question, giving him that contract meant we didn't sign actually useful players on cheaper contracts, every single guy we signed this off-season other than Holmes was not worth the money.
 
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