[Game] Kings @ Heat 12/20/13 - 4:30 pm PST

[Glenn]

We are losing because the Heat is better than we are and are at home. The details of how they are winning doesn't concern me.

 

[The_Jamal]

Is that Ray's first career assist?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Cousins has gotten 15 shots so far, and I've seen Thomas get him the ball plenty of times. No one is freezing Cousins out on offense.

We've all seen Thomas try and do to much on offense to the detriment of the team, but I don't think tonight is a really good example.

If we lose tonight it is because our defense has been putrid.

• First of all, what do you mean, if we lose?
• Second of all, I didn't say that's why we lost. The question was asked why weren't we feeding Cousins, and I answered it. And yes, Thomas does, occasionally, pass the ball to Cousins, but not in the paint, where he can do the most damage.

 

[Glenn]

My concerns about McLemore are diminishing.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

We are losing because the Heat is better than we are and are at home. The details of how they are winning doesn't concern me.

That's all well, and to the good, boss, but if everyone else thought that way, this place would be real quiet...

 

[rainmaker]

Cousins has gotten 15 shots so far, and I've seen Thomas get him the ball plenty of times. No one is freezing Cousins out on offense.

We've all seen Thomas try and do to much on offense to the detriment of the team, but I don't think tonight is a really good example.

If we lose tonight it is because our defense has been putrid.

When you're 11-15, you should get more shots.

But, you fail to understand the argument. The issue is just as much where Cuz is getting the ball as it is his shot attempts. When you have an advantage inside against the Miami frontline, the only advantage we have, you have to go to it. We didn't post Cuz inside at all until we were down 15+. That's on the PG. He runs the plays, he directs traffic, he sets everything up and gets it to the target of that offensive set.

It's also not the reason we got blown off the court though.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

God, I hate the heat. If anyone else is watching their broadcast ... everything I hate about basketball.

 

[Glenn]

Before we all get into an argument about who knows more about why we lost than the other, I have to point out that McLemore had a very good game. he seemed relaxed and hit a high percentage of threes and fgs. That's what we want of him, right?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Well, it's there fault too. Tonight should prove that. Miami got essentially nothing out of their PG play where our "defensive hole" is and they still trounce us for 120.

Eventually, you and others might figure out that defense is not on a single individual. It takes all 5 guys

when have i ever said it wasn't? i have criticized our pick n roll defense on here for the last couple years. maybe you should tell Aaron Bruski this, because he seems to think that Isaiah is immune to any of the defensive criticism.

if you guys followed Bruski on twitter you would know about his unhealthy obsession with Isaiah. its like he thinks he is the second coming of Oscar Robertson the way he talks about him

 

[gunks]

My concerns about McLemore are diminishing.

Good showing for him. I think he's going to start getting more consistent, we all just have to be patient. He is very much the rookie.

 

[Glenn]

That's all well, and to the good, boss, but if everyone else thought that way, this place would be real quiet...

There are days when I really, really would like that. What else did anyone expect in this specific game? I thought it would be a blowout. It was a blowout. I'm not going to blame it on IT or Cuz or JT or whoever is the whipping boy de jour.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Before we all get into an argument about who knows more about why we lost than the other, I have to point out that McLemore had a very good game. he seemed relaxed and hit a high percentage of threes and fgs. That's what we want of him, right?

Solid D on Wade as well. His problems on Defense come when his man doesn't have the ball. he gets lost or gets caught over-helping. which is really just a inexperience thing so im not too worried

 

[dude12]

Before we all get into an argument about who knows more about why we lost than the other, I have to point out that McLemore had a very good game. he seemed relaxed and hit a high percentage of threes and fgs. That's what we want of him, right?

I haven't been worried about Ben from the start. He's showing improvement, having peaks and valleys, but he's going to be an important core piece. He works his butt off. Lots of SGs have struggles in the first year. He looks like the real deal. I think his defense gets better when our big man defense gets better. We need another defensive big to help on the pick and roll or just our bigs in general to help out better.

 

[Glenn]

Good showing for him. I think he's going to start getting more consistent, we all just have to be patient. He is very much the rookie.

To follow up, I originally thought that he was mentally pretty tough but as the weeks passed, I feared that his continuing poor play would demoralize him. The only solace I had was that I have faith that Malone knows what he is doing. Now McLemore seems to be settling down.

 

[Lennox]

McLemore's one on one Defense against Wade has been nice.

Jimmer is terrible. id rather have Thornton play backup PG at this point.

our Defense still sucks

His 4 minutes killed the team, they would have won if jimmer did not play. Dammmmm you Jimmer

 

[VF21]

when have i ever said it wasn't? i have criticized our pick n roll defense on here for the last couple years. maybe you should tell Aaron Bruski this, because he seems to think that Isaiah is immune to any of the defensive criticism.

if you guys followed Bruski on twitter you would know about his unhealthy obsession with Isaiah. its like he thinks he is the second coming of Oscar Robertson the way he talks about him

To the best of my knowledge, Aaron Bruski is not now and has not ever been a member of this forum. If people want to follow him on Twitter, they're free to do so. I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't possibly care less what he thinks of Isaiah or anyone else on the Kings. You seem to bring him up way too often, IMHO.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

To the best of my knowledge, Aaron Bruski is not now and has not ever been a member of this forum. If people want to follow him on Twitter, they're free to do so. I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't possibly care less what he thinks of Isaiah or anyone else on the Kings. You seem to bring him up way too often, IMHO.

ive actually only brought him up 2 times. this instance tonight. and during the last game.
i thought it was relevant because while 99% of this board was complaining about IT's defense, including yourself, he was finding every reason to deflect the blame onto every other player.

he even went as far as to say that Isaiah was only responsible for 4pts and 1ast of Teagues 18pts 15ast the other night

 

[VF21]

His 4 minutes killed the team, they would have won if jimmer did not play. Dammmmm you Jimmer

Just stop. Jimmer has done nothing to make himself immune from criticism. Tonight he really did poorly. To not admit the obvious is just silly.

 

[gunks]

For all you Ray Mac fans....Dude had the highest +/- on the team! +4! Time to trade IT?

 

[VF21]

ive actually only brought him up 2 times. this instance tonight. and during the last game.
i thought it was relevant because while 99% of this board was complaining about IT's defense, including yourself, he was finding every reason to deflect the blame onto every other player.

he even went as far as to say that Isaiah was only responsible for 4pts and 1ast of Teagues 18pts 15ast the other night

Don't care. Couldn't possibly care less. That's my point. If he's not part of our discussion, nothing he says has any value one way or the other.

 

[Lennox]

Just stop. Jimmer has done nothing to make himself immune from criticism. Tonight he really did poorly. To not admit the obvious is just silly.

I admit he threw a dumb pass that ended in a slam for bird man.
But most of the kings played poorly but with more minutes, why mention a guy that played a few seconds in a 48min game. Blame guys that effect the game if u want to blame someone.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

I admit he threw a dumb pass that ended in a slam for bird man.
But most of the kings played poorly but with more minutes, why mention a guy that played a few seconds in a 48min game. Blame guys that effect the game if u want to blame someone.

i didn't "blame" him for the loss, that would be ridiculous. i just said he's been horrible and we need to find a different solution at the backup PG spot. Jimmer is not capable

 

[VF21]

I admit he threw a dumb pass that ended in a slam for bird man.
But most of the kings played poorly but with more minutes, why mention a guy that played a few seconds in a 48min game. Blame guys that effect the game if u want to blame someone.

A certain group of people who signed up here SOLELY BECAUSE OF JIMMER FREDETTE have consistently maintained that Jimmer just isn't being given any chance to succeed. Those of us who are fans of the name on the front of the jersey as opposed to those only here because of the name on the back have gotten pretty fed up as it has become more and more obvious that for whatever reason Jimmer just seems to be spiraling down further and further towards the Island of Misfit NBA Players.

We desperately need a backup PG or a new starting PG that will allow IT to resume his role as 6th man. We would have LOVED for it to be Jimmer, but every time he steps on the court just seems worse than the time before.

That's why we criticize him; that's why a lot of us have given up hope. Jimmer's poor play every time he steps on the court DOES effect the game.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Would anybody happen to be able to pull up our stats Before/After the trade. id like to see the difference in our PPG and also our PPG Allowed. it seems like other than the Houston game, we are giving up a ridiculous amount of points per game

 

[Lennox]

A certain group of people who signed up here SOLELY BECAUSE OF JIMMER FREDETTE have consistently maintained that Jimmer just isn't being given any chance to succeed. Those of us who are fans of the name on the front of the jersey as opposed to those only here because of the name on the back have gotten pretty fed up as it has become more and more obvious that for whatever reason Jimmer just seems to be spiraling down further and further towards the Island of Misfit NBA Players.

We desperately need a backup PG or a new starting PG that will allow IT to resume his role as 6th man. We would have LOVED for it to be Jimmer, but every time he steps on the court just seems worse than the time before.

That's why we criticize him; that's why a lot of us have given up hope. Jimmer's poor play every time he steps on the court DOES effect the game.

Ok when he was in there it was a 4 point game, he did not look good but they lost by twenty something. No he did not effect the game with 1 bad pass. That is 4 points at the most. Right??? No he is not comfortable out there, he gets no playing time. I don't care who u are when u average 5 minutes to DNP's on most nights your not going to get comfortable. Yes kings need to reload on their PG's but not because of what Jimmer does. He is not part of this 7 and 18 team. Check the coaching and the players that play on the court.

 

[VF21]

Ok when he was in there it was a 4 point game, he did not look good but they lost by twenty something. No he did not effect the game with 1 bad pass. That is 4 points at the most. Right??? No he is not comfortable out there, he gets no playing time. I don't care who u are when u average 5 minutes to DNP's on most nights your not going to get comfortable. Yes kings need to reload on their PG's but not because of what Jimmer does. He is not part of this 7 and 18 team. Check the coaching and the players that play on the court.

You are never going to understand what I - or the vast majority of KINGS FANS on this forum - say in this regard. I really don't know why I'm even trying but I'll give it one more shot...

IF JIMMER WAS COMPETENT, we wouldn't have to rely on a 5'9" guard to do the heavy lifting. Since Jimmer hasn't shown competence, we're left with no other choice at this point in time and it's not gonna work.

Jimmer's not a part of the team? Gee, I wonder if Payroll knows that. As far as I know, he's still cashing his checks.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

No he did not effect the game with 1 bad pass. That is 4 points at the most. Right??? .

well he had 2 turnovers and a +/- of -8 so i guess there was a little more damage than that. he also managed to have goose eggs in all other statistical categories.

He is not part of this 7 and 18 team. Check the coaching and the players that play on the court.

Yea, Jimmer is not even good enough to deserve playing time on a 7 and 18 team that is desperate for a backup guard. so what does that say about his NBA future?

 

[Glenn]

Ok when he was in there it was a 4 point game, he did not look good but they lost by twenty something. No he did not effect the game with 1 bad pass. That is 4 points at the most. Right??? No he is not comfortable out there, he gets no playing time. I don't care who u are when u average 5 minutes to DNP's on most nights your not going to get comfortable. Yes kings need to reload on their PG's but not because of what Jimmer does. He is not part of this 7 and 18 team. Check the coaching and the players that play on the court.

Jimmer has earned his DNPs. Jimmer is very much a part of this team as his play has been on a level with what I expect from a 7-18 team. I am one of the people who wanted us to draft Jimmer and now I see what a huge mistake it was.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You know, Malone talks about finding five guys who care about playing defense. The problem with that, whether you're talking about team defense or man defense, is that we only really have three of those: two of them play the same position, and the third one plays the star's position.

So, I guess you can put Acy in for Thompson, which might work against Orlando, since Glen Davis isn't a particularly forceful guy in the paint, and it marginally improves our held defense, but aside from Miami, we've got a fairly long stretch of games against teams with big, powerful PFs that Acy isn't much good against. We're not going to bring Gray into the starting lineup, unless we move Cousins to PF, in which case, we can expect a whole lot more of what Bosh gave us tonight.

I mean, I appreciate his sentiment, but exactly what alternatives does Malone think he has?

 

[rainmaker]

Ok when he was in there it was a 4 point game, he did not look good but they lost by twenty something. No he did not effect the game with 1 bad pass. That is 4 points at the most. Right??? No he is not comfortable out there, he gets no playing time. I don't care who u are when u average 5 minutes to DNP's on most nights your not going to get comfortable. Yes kings need to reload on their PG's but not because of what Jimmer does. He is not part of this 7 and 18 team. Check the coaching and the players that play on the court.

You're missing something.

He certainly does effect the game whether he plays or not as Malone is forced to play IT more mins than he should, burning him out, because we don't have a backup PG we can count on. Same could be said for Ray, but he's a much younger rookie in his first go-around so he gets some leeway.

But it's not just Jimmer's mins on the court. His lack of production is forcing Malone to keep him on the bench while our starting PG suffers for it, effecting the entire team. No it's not why we lost. But it is one of our problems which impacts us nightly.