[Game] Kings @ Heat 12/20/13 - 4:30 pm PST

[mac]

mac - Jimmer also stumbled and fell. Where is that in your scenario?

I believe that comes under point no. 4 - Jimmer TO leads to 3 on 2. I don't know, I went back to watch the 4 minute span just to break things down.

I find it really weird that mac really beefs up Jimmer so much

Whoa whoa I'm not beefing Jimmer up. I'm just trying to be objective here, and I'm really not talented or committed enough to go break down every play for any other player that plays more than 4 minutes. Find a post where I proclaim nonsense like Jimmer is a superstar or something like that. I have always maintained that I am rooting for Jimmer to find a role in the league while recognizing his limitations. And in that regard I'm looking for ways that I think we can be a better TEAM by managing the rotations and lineups of Jimmer and IT. On the other hand I have also openly admitted that I am subjective towards IT, largely due to the constant trash being spouted by G&J about him, but I still try to acknowledge when he plays well (which I think he did this game btw). In any case, we're Kings fans. It should come as no surprise that I enjoy rooting for the underdog.

Maybe it's me, but IMO, I don't really think that you've actually seen that much overt Fredette criticism. What I think you've seen is:

1. One, maybe two guys hyperbolically over-criticize Fredette's contribution tonight (and hey, let's face it, this is a fan site: everybody, with the possible exceptions of bajaden and Capt. Factorial, are subject to use hyperbole to criticize from time-to-time).
2. The aforementioned hyperbolic criticism drew out the usual suspects to White Knight for Fredette.
3. The aforementioned White Knighting led to irritation on the part of all of the Kings Fans (particularly those who consider themselves fans of the team over any individual players) who simply don't feel as though Fredette is worthy of the belligerent sort of defense he's been receiving.
4. From there, it has spiraled into the typical internet shouting match... And believe me when I tell you I know what one of those looks like when I see one.

Perhaps you're right Slim. I only read the game thread after the game, and the sense I got was that this was some epicly bad game by Jimmer. On the contrary, I felt that other than the 2 TOs he didn't exactly hurt the team that much. He has certainly had worse or equally ineffective games even in the recent past. I figured it was because a number of the Heat's baskets seemed to come against him, and set out to point out that they were fast break baskets that were also caused by poor play and TOs from Williams and Gay. Kinda in the spirit of what you would do when you think JT is getting criticized for things that aren't remotely his fault.

 

[VF21]

Jerry and Gary are getting up there in years. I'm expecting they'll start doing the Bill King thing of only doing home games and games close to Sacramento before too long. While Kayte may be the ultimate long term replacement, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain tall garbage man winds up with the Kings play-by-play crew since (a) he's got experience (doing Jayhawk games), (b) he's still very popular in the Kings community, (c) Grant thinks he's the greatest guy ever, and (d) he's already connected with the new regime for several events.

Ladies and gentlemen, your broadcast crew for tonight's game - Kayte Christensen and Scot Pollard!

 

[VF21]

I believe that comes under point no. 4 - Jimmer TO leads to 3 on 2. I don't know, I went back to watch the 4 minute span just to break things down.

I think you're right. Thanks...

Perhaps you're right Slim. I only read the game thread after the game, and the sense I got was that this was some epicly bad game by Jimmer. On the contrary, I felt that other than the 2 TOs he didn't exactly hurt the team that much. He has certainly had worse or equally ineffective games even in the recent past. I figured it was because a number of the Heat's baskets seemed to come against him, and set out to point out that they were fast break baskets that were also caused by poor play and TOs from Williams and Gay. Kinda in the spirit of what you would do when you think JT is getting criticized for things that aren't remotely his fault.

The problem isn't that "he didn't hurt the team that much." The problem is that he doesn't HELP the team, at least in my mind. We desperately need someone/anyone to be able to give IT a breather until we can find a real starting PG so Mighty Mouse can return to his "Here I come to save the day" persona. That's what disappoints. Jimmer comes in and pretty much does nothing to assist in that regard.

 

[Lennox]

You're about one sarcastic post away from a bus ride.

I think u need to relax and not take a joke about cousins too seriously. Malone does not draw up Cousins running a break VF.

 

[mac]

^your putting way too much into this. nobody is blaming Jimmer for the loss of the game. just simply pointing out he is not a viable backup PG and he is simply not cut out for the NBA at this point and its fairly easy to see that when watching him play

Mm that wasn't really my point. What I was trying to say is that he didn't really play this game any better or worse than he normally plays. That has nothing to do with whether he is a viable backup PG or not. But posters were all "bench Jimmer!", "Ray McCallum!" when he just turned the ball over twice. Rudy Gay and Williams similarly contributed to two fast break baskets.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Perhaps you're right Slim. I only read the game thread after the game, and the sense I got was that this was some epicly bad game by Jimmer... Kinda in the spirit of what you would do when you think JT is getting criticized for things that aren't remotely his fault.

Fair enough, although I mostly chose to speak up for Thompson because nobody else was. Fredette doesn't appear to have any problems finding people to defend him; whether the defense is warranted or not is the subject of a different discussion.

 

[mac]

I think you're right. Thanks...



The problem isn't that "he didn't hurt the team that much." The problem is that he doesn't HELP the team, at least in my mind. We desperately need someone/anyone to be able to give IT a breather until we can find a real starting PG so Mighty Mouse can return to his "Here I come to save the day" persona. That's what disappoints. Jimmer comes in and pretty much does nothing to assist in that regard.

No worries. Ah I agree that he doesn't/isn't helping the team. But I don't think we have any other better option at the moment. My approach to this was similar to what the graders do in the grades thread - grade a player based on his individual scale. And in that regard my point was that Jimmer doesn't get an F for this performance.. If his standard play is a B- this was maybe a C+.

I also think that given the limitations of our roster some responsibility falls on the coach to put his players in positions where they can succeed. Sorta like how we saw some plays being run for McLemore over the last few games to start quarters. That's all you can ask from the coach, and from there if McLemore doesn't hit the shots the blame falls on him alone. As we can all quite easily agree, Jimmer isn't a reliable option as a PG, and IMO we should try running some plays for him to get open shots, just to maximise whatever assets we do have.

I would still like to see Jimmer start the game. IT can replace him after 5-6 minutes, sit Cousins at say the 3 minute mark. Bring Cousins back in the 2nd at 8 minute mark, bring Jimmer to replace IT (if need be due to fatigue) at 5 or 4 minute mark. Just seems more balanced to me. Jimmer gets the luxury of being able to play off of Cousins/Gay and IT becomes a bit more of a focal point on offense when he comes in.

 

[Lennox]

Mm that wasn't really my point. What I was trying to say is that he didn't really play this game any better or worse than he normally plays. That has nothing to do with whether he is a viable backup PG or not. But posters were all "bench Jimmer!", "Ray McCallum!" when he just turned the ball over twice. Rudy Gay and Williams similarly contributed to two fast break baskets.

1 thing that was strange is when Big Cuz threw a bad pass and went out of bounds and he yelled at jimmer for it. He was the only one moving. Check out the replay.

 

[mac]

1 thing that was strange is when Big Cuz threw a bad pass and went out of bounds and he yelled at jimmer for it. He was the only one moving. Check out the replay.

That's not true. Jimmer was standing sill for quite a while until Cousins made his move. Both Outlaw and Gay tried cutting earlier on after Cousins first yelled MOVE. The spacing was just bad on that possession and I don't fully know what the issue was there. Jimmer himself wasn't in good position to receive the ball after handing it off to Cousins (before Cousins made his move). Angle for the pass wasn't good and defender was easily between Jimmer and Cousins.

I rewatched each possession multiple times in my little effort to be detailed

 

[Lennox]

That's not true. Jimmer was standing sill for quite a while until Cousins made his move. Both Outlaw and Gay tried cutting earlier on after Cousins first yelled MOVE. The spacing was just bad on that possession and I don't fully know what the issue was there. Jimmer himself wasn't in good position to receive the ball after handing it off to Cousins (before Cousins made his move). Angle for the pass wasn't good and defender was easily between Jimmer and Cousins.

I rewatched each possession multiple times in my little effort to be detailed

It's looks like he wanted jimmer to get further away so his man would not double Cuz. And jimmer was far enough away, but Cuz threw the bad pass and found someone to blame and yell at. IMO

 

[mac]

Jerry and Gary are getting up there in years. I'm expecting they'll start doing the Bill King thing of only doing home games and games close to Sacramento before too long. While Kayte may be the ultimate long term replacement, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain tall garbage man winds up with the Kings play-by-play crew since (a) he's got experience (doing Jayhawk games), (b) he's still very popular in the Kings community, (c) Grant thinks he's the greatest guy ever, and (d) he's already connected with the new regime for several events.

As I've listened to other teams' commentary the one thing I find is that Grant and Jerry don't ever bring up actual facts about the other team's players. The extent of their analysis/commentary on them has become bestowing nicknames upon them or Grant saying "I don't understand why you would leave [player] open Jerry!". The rest of the broadcast is spent talking about the Hustlin Huskie and how the all-star game would be so much better if it just featured Isaiah Thomas doing layups with no one else on the court.

 

[bajaden]

First, in regards to Jimmer, its all my fault. I gave him some props in another thread before the game, and as usual, I'm the kiss of death. However, to think that he was responsible for the loss is just a tad bit extreme. He certainly didn't have his best game by a long shot, but when it came to the turnover dept, it was a team effort, especially the starting unit. Gay had 7 turnovers, IT had 3, Cousins had 3, MLM had 2, and JT only had 1 if I remember correctly. Only Gay stands out in that group, but if you take the group as a whole, not so good.

I'm curious who thought we were going to win this game? Its possible of course, but logic tells us its far from likely. I remember turning to my wife just before the beginning of the 4th quarter, and saying that the game is over. She responded by saying, why? The game is close and we still have a chance to win. I told her, Miami hasn't played a lick of defense for three quarters, and neither have we. That's not going to happen in the 4th quarter. They're going to come out and shut us down, and we aren't going to be able to do the same. Thus, the Heat will walk away from us and easily win the game. When they want to be, the Heat is a very good defensive team, and their also the defending champions. If we can't beat the Bobcats, why on earth would anyone think we would beat the Heat.

Don't get me wrong. I root for an upset just like everyone else. But I'm not going to expect it, and then question why we lost. We lost because were a bad team, and they're not. To believe otherwise is fools gold.